Tony duell wrote: This is about as sensible as saying that 'pianos and guitars are musical instruments, if you enjoy playing one you _must_ necessarily enjoy the other'. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Billy: I don't think I used the word "must" in my comments. But certainly many musicians enjoying playing both, my youngest daughter included. And I was talking about using, playing with, understanding, etc. I like a good tear down as much as the next guy. In fact, this discussion has prodded me into doing something I've put off for a long time - strip some PCBs I found with 8ns CMOS static RAMs, 128Kx8. They are surface mount and the small geometries are a real challenge for my twisted fingers and bifocal eyes. But I have a project that needs fast memory and the weekend is free.) Last weekend was at the TRW flea market. Anybody else on the list from the LA/OC area? Let me know. Maybe we can meet up at the next one. (I scored a Microtek 9600XL scanner for $40. I've been looking for a wide bed scanner for months and saw this one on the way out. Put it on an old G4 running OS 8.6 and it came right up. Slow as hell though - you can literally go make a cup of coffee while it does a full 12"x17" scan. But it will be ideal to copy a lot of the old A3 size manuals.) ------------------------------------------------------------------- Tony Duell: To be honest, I am not a 'computer person'. I don't much enjoy programming. I'm an electronics/mechanical person. I like tinkering with hardware, but it computers, radios, cameras, clocks, whatever. So I could turn your statement round and say 'Well, you enjoy working on your 1962 mainframe, why don't you strip down an M-series Leica. It's all machinery after all' -tony ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Billy: A big difference between us then. I have loved computers since my very first one, an IBM 650 in 1958. In the Army, I did some mortar tracking computers so had to work with analogue computers as well as digital. Programming is like doing puzzles: a little is a lot of fun but a lot is no fun at all. Strip a Leica? Well if I can find a cheap one, I might do it. I have done dozens of MP3 players in the last year, and a Canon and JVC camcorder. Though it is not so much a tear down as reverse engineering. If the Leica uses a 1" drive, then I'll definitely put it on the list. Cameras are fun - I get to buy new tools to work on them. I like machinery less than computers but still putz around. That's partly why I specialized in peripherals for the last 30 years. Besides, the super computers were dying and the minis just weren't as much fun. But even peripherals can be too much mechanical for me sometimes. Anyone on the list ever work on an IBM-1311 or CDC 807/808 or CDC 813/814? All of these featured hydraulic actuators. A face full of warm pressurized hydraulic fluid is enough to convince even the most die hard GOM that electronics has advantages. (GOM is how they used to refer to us peripheral types - Greasy Ol' Mechanics.) If you like electro-mechanical, then perhaps you share another interest: Meccano. I always liked Erector sets until I saw my first Meccano set. I realized then that the US sets were shoddy wanabees. I've been a collector and user of Meccano since the early 70's, when I first met them. There's still a #10 set in the hall closet, though it is probably incomplete now. At the Museum where Al K. works is a beautiful Babbage Difference Engine built out of Red/Green Meccano. It's a gorgeous piece of machinery - works of course. I wish I had that much ambition and skill. Anyone on the list seen it (besides Al)? Billy