sort of a vague question, that will undoubtedly be met
by a vague response. How much groovy stuph can be
found for sale there? Lets take something reasonably
scarce as a Mindset. Whats the likelihood of one being
offered? Can we assume that most of the people
attending the show are on this list? Isnt this list
like a virtual VCF, so WHY CANT SOMEONE OFFER ME ONE
RIGHT HERE AND SAVE ME THE PLAINFARE. Always looking
for groovy vintage stuph, peecee not-compatibles rank
high on my list ;)
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>If you use Tim Mann's catweasel tools and generate DMK images (are
there
>any others that run on Linux?)
rfloppy
part of Eric Smith's DMKlib package
http://dmklib.brouhaha.com/
Hi
I tend to agree with Sellam. If one wants, it
is usually a trivial job to extract the file(s) of
interest from an image. It is impossible to guess
what piece might be missing from a pile of files.
I don't think space is an issue any more.
Dwight
>From: "Vintage Computer Festival" <vcf at siconic.com>
>
>On Sat, 17 Sep 2005, Barry Watzman wrote:
>
>> While images are nice, for CP/M there is another alternative that may be
>> more widely useful and easier, although it's less historically accurate.
>> That is just to copy the files over to MS-DOS disks, where they can then
>> exist in folders on a modern hard drive or be put on CDs or DVDs. I can
>> really see no advantage to a strict "image", as long as one has the files.
>>
>> The issue that this leaves out is the system tracks, but that is easily
>> dealt with: Runs "SYSGEN", exit, and then do a "SAVE 34 SYSTEM.COM" and you
>> have the system tracks as a disk file in a format that is easily restored
>> simply using SYSGEN.
>>
>> This method also has some actual advantages, in terms of being able to
>> actually use the software with a CP/M emulator on a PC.
>>
>> Since I'm not aware of any CP/M programs that did copy protection or any
>> other type of manipulation that would require an exact disk image, I don't
>> really see the drawback of this approach.
>
>The one main drawback is that this is not an accurate or appropriate way
>to create an image for historical preservation. For this reason I
>recommened against what you describe.
>
>--
>
>Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival
>------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org
>
>[ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ]
>[ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ]
>
>
Curt:
I saw an old post of yours from 2003 included below, about the RLV12.
I am working on a hobby/project to copy a large collection of my old
software from RL02. I was wondering if you ever got your RLV12 to work
with the VAX? I was under the impression that because the RLV12 controler
was old PDP11 DMA it could not handle the VAX MMU, so the DMA would write
the data to the wrong area of memory? I do know that DEC never supported
the RLV12 with any QBUS VAX.
Todd
> Hi,
>
> I've got an RL02 connected to my Vax 4000-200 through an RLV12 QBus
> controller.
>
> The Drive is spinning up fine and the Ready light is Lit, the Fault light
> goes off once power to the Vax is started and doing a SHO DEV at the
Chevron
> prompt and within OpenVMS both show:
>
> RLV12 Controller 0 (774400)
> -DLA3 (RL02)
>
> Which looks great from my perspective, the drive ID plug is a 3, so DLA3
makes
> total sense. In the SHO DEV within OpenVMS does display the drive as
being
> online.
>
> So my problem is with MOUNT, everytime I go to mount the drive the system
> simply hangs and never seems to complete the mount, I end up having to
CTRL-
> BREAK to Halt the system back to Chevron and b up again from my DSSI DIA0:
>
> Anyone have any idea's what I'm doing wrong or what may be wrong???
>
> I've tried with a /FOREIGN too since this platters are from an 11/730
and many
> of the handwritten labels on the disk paks say RSTS on them, so I wasn't
sure
> if it was a format issue or something, I could really use some
help/advice from
> anyone with a lot of experience with the quirks of the RL's.
>
> Thanks much,
>
> PS: If anyone has an RK05 or RK07 DECPack for sale and possibly an
RKV11D Qbus
> controller I am in the market for one.
>
> Curt
>
you pick up in Dallas; south oak cliff.
Have several compaq luggables, a couple of TI professional computers, a
bunch of CGA and some EGA monitors, several PC XT 286 386 deskpros, sanyo
PC, etc, also a few remaining oldies like a DEC LP01 line printer, the
first DEC line printer, and a vaxmate, and some rainbow softeware, PC
parts, NOS 5.25 disks, an old fairchild video game console, ad nauseum,
etc.. just bring a bobtail truck. Winner (must) take all.
all free, otherwise soon it must go out to the bad place. lab must be clear
soon.
214-763-4764 Patrick
>> While images are nice, for CP/M there is another alternative that may be
>> more widely useful and easier, although it's less historically accurate.
>> That is just to copy the files over to MS-DOS disks, where they can then
>> exist in folders on a modern hard drive or be put on CDs or DVDs. I can
>> really see no advantage to a strict "image", as long as one has the files.
>>
>> The issue that this leaves out is the system tracks, but that is easily
>> dealt with: Runs "SYSGEN", exit, and then do a "SAVE 34 SYSTEM.COM" and you
>> have the system tracks as a disk file in a format that is easily restored
>> simply using SYSGEN.
>>
>> This method also has some actual advantages, in terms of being able to
>> actually use the software with a CP/M emulator on a PC.
>>
>> Since I'm not aware of any CP/M programs that did copy protection or any
>> other type of manipulation that would require an exact disk image, I don't
>> really see the drawback of this approach.
>
>The one main drawback is that this is not an accurate or appropriate way
>to create an image for historical preservation. For this reason I
>recommened against what you describe.
Somehow I missed the beginning of this thread (had a few mail probs lately),
so please forgive if I am wandering too far away from the original topic, but
I gather we are trying to figure out how to best preserve CP/M disks.
I to agree that copying the files is not the best solution - even if you do the
SYSTEM.COM thing, you still need a working CP/M boot disk to be able to make a
boot disk (chicken and egg type of deal) - Having restored a number of systems
for which I did NOT have an original boot disk, I can tell you that this can be
an issue.
I've used ImageDisk to backup and restore quite a few CP/M disks by now, and it
works well, deals with system tracks just fine, and allows you to make a bootable
disk from "starting point zero". It does have two limitations:
- For 8" systems, you will have to attach an 8" drive to your PC ... I've put
up a page on my web site which describes this in a bit of detail, including
an adapter thats very easy to make to convert the 8" interface to plug into
a standard 5.25" cable.
- The disk format must be one that is compatible with the PC's 765 controller
The only work-around for this is to use CPT.
For cases where the disk format is not compatible with the PC (hard or non-IBM
format sectors), I have created CPT (CP/m Transfer) which is also available on
my site - CPT transfers disk images to and from the actual target system over the
serial port, and can work with ANY format disk (because it uses the targets disks
and controller). CPT has a different set of limitations:
- The target system must have a serial port (it doesn't have to be the console).
- You need to provide a very small binary serial port driver for the CPT resident
client. Even if you don't know how to talk to it, looking at the device number
of the UART, and a few minutes tracing vectors and disassembling with DDT will
usually give you the info you need.
- CPT can't always handle system tracks - CP/M does not provide a standard way to
read/write the system tracks, and on some systems they are different from the
user tracks and incompatible with the system floppy driver. CPT allows you to
skip them, and you could use SYSGEN/SAVE to place a copy of them in the user
area.
- CPT requires you to have a working target system backup and recreate the disks.
It *SHOULD* be possible to save a memory image of loaded CP/M and FORMAT which
can be loaded into a bare system to create a formatted disk. I have not had to
do this with CP/M yet, but I have done it with Cromemco RDOS which is similar.
Note that you still need a means of getting the memory image into memory and
launching it at the right address (for Cromemco you can use RDOS) - I have a
very tiny (<500 bytes) 8080 monitor which would work for this purpose.
With CP/M you would need to have a second memory image with SYSGEN, and system
tracks preloaded in memory, and possibly a third with the CPT client preloaded
- but these should be possible, at which point you could use CPT to transfer
over full disk images.
I've been toying with the idea of writing a program to allow you to list the
directory, and import/export files to/from a CP/M ImageDisk image (or perhaps
just a straight binary disk image which IMDU can create)... This would allow
the files to be used under a CP/M simulator that uses the DOS file system
fairly easily ... too busy to even start right now, but perhaps sometime this
winter.
Regards,
Dave
--
dave04a (at) Dave Dunfield
dunfield (dot) Firmware development services & tools: www.dunfield.com
com Collector of vintage computing equipment:
http://www.parse.com/~ddunfield/museum/index.html
Dear people,
Please subscribe me from the mailing list, as it is not working properly
via your webside.
Best regards, Rinaldo Eversdijk
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From: cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org
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CC:
Rec.: rinaldo.eversdijk at stork.com
Date: 09/21/2005 04:38:52 AM
Subject: Re: CP/M archive to image 8" CP/M
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I have some Apple Macintoshes that I would like to find a new home for.
Free for the cost of shipping, or you can pick them up.
They're still a bit too new to be 'on topic' here, 'Beige G3' machines,
but if you hold onto them a few years.... Good machines to run the free
Unixes on, and they have both IDE and SCSI interfaces and use standard
SDRAM memory. They are the 'desktop' case machine and don't have memory
or hard drives. I'm pretty sure they all work, though they haven't been
run in some time.
I am located south of Indianapolis in Indiana.
Can anyone recommend a book on the theory of operation
of RGB computer monitors. I imagine a book that
concentrates on monitors, as opposed to TV's in
general, is probably uncommon. In that event, a
recommendation for something general would be
appreciated, whether a past or present publication.
Purpose: the investigate the possibility of modifying
a recent multisync to sync down to TV frequencies. Not
interlaced necessarily. Just to use a modern monitor
with stuph that operates between CGA and VGA
frequencies. Much obliged.
__________________________________
Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005
http://mail.yahoo.com
The Asst. Curator of the Signals Museum at RAF Henlow, Alf Fisher, is trying
to obtain schematics for the above machine ,
He says,
"I have a Creed manual which covers everything mechanical but only block
diagrams about the electronics aspects of the machine. I suppose they had a
policy to replace a printed circuit board if it became faulty rather than
diagnose a fault and repair it.
Please can you help at all with the electronics of the machine? "
Anybody have any info ?
Cheers ,
Geoff.
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