test-drb August 2005

test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org

227 participants
528 discussions

by aek＠bitsavers.org

Joe, that is the correct number. Pat had one that I bought a few months ago. It takes up roughly 5" of rack space, and is the usual black rack mounted looking ps. It will be marked with the +/- 15v rating and there should be one or two small Winchester power supply connectors on it. I also misposted in my last msg. RK03's were the 2 meg version like RK05's RK02's were 1/2 the track density. As Tony pointed out, the big difference was individual drive select lines on the diablo, as opposed to 3:8 decoding on rk05's. You can mix rk's and diablos as long as you're careful about the drive selects. Come to think of it, though, you may have trouble making a diablo drive 0 on an RK8E... I have lots of diablo interconnect cables and terminators in my Alto parts stash..

18 years, 10 months

cctalk Digest, Vol 24, Issue 11

by wayne.smith＠charter.net

> Date: Thu, 4 Aug 2005 00:23:46 +0100 (BST) > From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) > Subject: Re: VCF Midwest update? > To: cctalk at classiccmp.org > Message-ID: <m1E0SaU-000IxvC at p850ug1> > Content-Type: text/plain > > > I've been to sevearl HPCC 2-day conferences (these are the UK HP > calculator conferences). There is an attendance fee, but this > is reduced > if you give a talk (or contribute to the conference in some > other way). > It's not free for anyone, but certainly the people who do > something for > the conference are not penalised. > > > People are attracted to the VCF presumably to see the > machines on show. > To charge the exhibitiors (who are the ones to attract the > public) and > then not cheage the public for coming in sounds to be totally > ridiculous > to me. > > -tony > You, and a lot of others on this list, don't get it. This isn't a for-profit enterprise like most conferences. This is a hobbyist show, put on and financed by a hobbyist on a shoestring budget at considerable risk. I would put up serious money that Sellam in the best years does little more than break even on the shows he does, and has probably lost money on some of them. Moreover, if you factored in all of the time that he and other expend putting on the show, and value it at any reasonable level (or even at minimum wage), these shows would show a substantial deficit. All this talk about exhibitors attracting dollars is absolute nonsense in this context - no one is trying to or even expecting to make money on these shows (though it would certainly be nice if that were the case, and I'm sure that Sellam was originally hoping it would grow into something big and profitable). Rather, those that participate merely hope that there is enough continued interest so that the show will continue for another year. I have exhibited at VCF for the last five years. Since the first year I have felt that I am part of the show and have a personal stake in how it turns out. That's because it isn't a show run by some corporate monolith trying to turn a profit and wring every possible penny from the participants; rather it is a show run by a hobbyist, for other hobbyists. So, when Sellam started asking the exhibitors to pay a small exhibition fee a few years ago, it made perfect sense to me, even though I'm a cheapskate (as I take it many others are on this list). Like most other exhibitors, I am invested in the show and want it to succeed and continue, and by contributing something financially (albeit a very small amount) I am doing a little bit more to support something that I really enjoy and look forward to. The reality is that most exhibitors would much rather attend the show as exhibitors than as non-exhibitors (why else would we do it?) so the notion that they should free ride on attending the show because the show derives a benefit from their presence really doesn't fly in the least bit. Sellam is the producer and the exhibitors and speakers are the "co-producers." It's our show; only the vendors make money.

18 years, 10 months

NEC APC disk images posted

by dave04a＠dunfield.com

Someone was looking for APC software a few days ago.. I've gone through my APC material, and found a total of 9 boxes of disks for the APC and N5200, many of the NEC original masters... I've just added three image archives to my site: MSDOS system/application disks for APC CP/M-86 system/application for APC UCSD p-System disks for APC Regards, Dave -- dave04a (at) Dave Dunfield dunfield (dot) Firmware development services & tools: www.dunfield.com com Collector of vintage computing equipment: http://www.parse.com/~ddunfield/museum/index.html

18 years, 10 months

Another disk imaging project

by dave04a＠dunfield.com

>> The idea is to make a small single-board computer with a microcontroller, >> a WD2793 or similar floppy disk controller, enough memory to buffer a >> few tracks, and a high-speed serial port for communication with the PC. >> The board would have connectors for 5.25"/3" drives and 8" drives, and >> would properly interface to all drive types. >Dave, why not just write software for a catweasel card? I realize that the >catweasel's FPGA has been programmed with a bitmap made from closed-source RTL, >but is that a serious impedement? Yes. - What happens when the catweasel becomes unavailable? >When the day comes that the catweasel is no longer supported/sold, it would be >possible to at that point design another one. Will it? Or will nobody bother as it's a tough job. Will it be 100% compatible, or will we find that disks that were created with this at-least partially proprietary system will be "lost" if the system cannot be made to work? > People here have daydreamed reinventing the catweasel with only TTL parts so >prevent lock-in; that is fine, but nobody has done anything about it (the >daydreaming is the easy part, by a factor of 1000). This would be my point. >The catweasel is here and real, and at $100, it is price reasonably. The $100 cost, and the fact that you have to order and wait for it, means that a significant number of people won't bother (I haven't) - something you can build in a few hours in your workshop at near-$0 cost will get done by more people. Everyone who has a vintage computer and doesn't use it, means one more set of disks that are not preserved. >At that last statement I know one or more people are going to say: rubbish, I >have the parts here in my junk bin that I could put together what I want for >free. Well, what you'd have would be a pile parts that took at least ten hours >of design time, and you'd still need to spend much more than that writing >software before coming up to speed with the catweasel. The design time is a non-issue, what I am proposing is essentially the publishing of a tested design. It would also include basic software, and be fully documented to encourage other to add to the software base. Is the cat software open-source, are the internal and storage formats fully documented - one big thing about the work that I have been doing is to make sure that people in the future can access the data from the images so that they can find "other means" of regenerating the disk if necessary - even if that regenerated disk is just a different format image for a simulator. >Sure, not everybody will >be able/willing to spend $100 for something like this, but that is far less than >the number of people who would be put off by having to build their own hardware. On this point I disagree - the board I am thinking of would be very simple, perhaps a dozen DIP chips - easy to build. I think a lot of the people on this list would gladly take an evening or two to build one - also if it were to be done, printed circuit boards, and even finished/tested boards could be made available at low cost (like the cat), but unlike the cat, fully documented and you can build it yourself if you like. It would not be "owned" or controlled by anyone. >The one thing that I feel is missing from the catweasel is a 50-pin header for >connecting to standard 8" floppies. A grave omission for something thats supposed to archive non-PC-standard disks. >Another minor gripe is that each of the versions of the catweasel (now four) >tries to be register compatible with previous versions while adding new >functionality. It has lead to some arcane programming requirements, which is >sad: a very thin API to hide version changes would have made things much simpler. But would have tied the thing to one particular development environment (Here's you VisualC++ library - have a nice day). The best solution is a fully open and documented description of the hardware and lots of sample code. >Finally, is the WD2793 able to read northstar horizon floppy disks? If not, >then a WD2793-based solution is not general enough. As noted in the original message, it would be soft-sector only - the idea is to make a simple/cheap alternative to the limitations of the PC controller... Still deciding if it's worth it - I'll record your "NO" vote. Regards, Dave -- dave04a (at) Dave Dunfield dunfield (dot) Firmware development services & tools: www.dunfield.com com Collector of vintage computing equipment: http://www.parse.com/~ddunfield/museum/index.html

18 years, 10 months

CF cards on classic machines (was Re: Another disk imaging pr oject)

by GOOI＠oce.nl

Ethan, the access that you describe is exactly what I do in my homebrew pdp8/e with the Core & I/O Board! I started out with a real IDE disk but bought an IDE-CF adapter, and it worked right away. BTW, in the source code is a description of the way I connected the IDE/CF card to the I/O Board. I started with an 8-bit datapath, that is fine for sending the commands, but reading the data is of course also 8 bits. In the beginning I did not consider that to be a real loss, but it annoyed me that I could not read properly the IDENT data result (manufacturer, type, size, etc.). So I "upgraded" the data path to 16 bit. But 8 bits works for sure! See www.pdp-11.nl/homebrew/pdp8/pdp8startpage.html (a page that is almost weekly updated!) - Henk, PA8PDP. On 8/5/05, Jim Brain <brain at jbrain.com> wrote: > The IDE command registers are all 8-bits wide, but the Data register > is 16 bits wide. You have to support a 16 bit transfer in order to get > the data from the sector buffer (256 16 bit transfers nets you 512 > bytes of data, the IDE std sector). IN the newer 48 bit addressing > mode, the LBA registers grow from 8 bits to 16 bits as well. > > All the IDE code I've looked at does it this way. I believe I have > the ATA r4 spec here that states that as well. > > But, if you've noted a way to switch IDE into 8-bit mode, let me know. This is not an ATA feature I'm talking about, it's a CF feature... >From http://www.compuphase.com/mbr_fat.htm ... you can switch the Compact Flash card to use only 8-bit transfers, in case you need to connect the Compact Flash card to an 8-bit bus. Accessing a drive takes the following steps: 1. The address is asserted on lines A0-A2 and /CS0 + /CS1. In True IDE mode, only three of the address lines of the Compact Flash card are used, in combination with the /CS0 and /CS1 lines which select the "register set". Only either of the /CS0 and /CS1 lines is active (not both at the same time). 2. After a delay of 70 ns (or more), either the /IORD or /IOWR is activated, depending on whether you want to initiate a read or write instruction. The /IORD or /IOWR are the strobes. 3. Another delay, of 165 ns, is needed before inactivating the /IORD or /IOWR lines. At the same time of inactivating the strobe, or immediately before or after inactivating the strobe, you can read or write the data to the D0-D15 lines. 4. Although this is optional, it is recommended that both /CS0 and /CS1 are inactivated at the end of the read or write cycle. You may need another delay here, because a full cycle has also a minimal duration. Instead of a simple idle loop, you may however choose to perform other operations in that time --such as interpreting the data after a read operation, or fetching new data after a write operation. So... again, the problems I'm having are with certain cards and not others. My records of success are 4MB HP - fail, 16MB Kodak - strange behavior/fail, 512MB Simple Technology - fail, SanDisk 1GB - works. I'm just trying to solicit input from anyone who might know a tidbit like "don't try that with cards under 32MB" or some other such nugget of wisdom. I brought up the 8-bit mode thing because it's an unusual use of the CF card and might be relevant. Thanks, -ethan

18 years, 10 months

Flash Attack! (was Re: Analog modem emulator?)

by leeedavison＠yahoo.co.uk

> Next time I see the tape (it's around here somewhere :) I'll > try to make a digital image of it. You may like to look here first .. http://www.portcommodore.com/flashindex.php?path=main-cbmidx- Lee. . ___________________________________________________________ How much free photo storage do you get? Store your holiday snaps for FREE with Yahoo! Photos http://uk.photos.yahoo.com

18 years, 10 months

a quick question

by dwight.elvey＠amd.com

Hi When did the SX386 come out?? Dwight

18 years, 10 months

OT: Tektronix 3052

by technobug＠comcast.net

Sort of on topic: 68000/Unix/Old Rummaging around one of the local scrappers I came across an old Tektronix Spectrum Analyzer that looks like it was implemented in part with VME 68000 modules. The beast ( 50 kg ++) was demil'ed and consequently the disk is now in very small pieces. From what I can find out, it ran a version of UNIX. Anyone have knowledge, software, manuals for such a beast? CRC

18 years, 10 months

Totally OT: email directories?

by healyzh＠aracnet.com

Many moons ago, there used to be directories of email address. While not the most complete, they could be useful for tracking people down. I'm searching for a couple of people that I used to work with, and am wondering if anything like this exists in a modern sense. Ideally I want something that can search on user names, as I know the ones they're most likely using. Zane -- -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh at aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ |

18 years, 10 months

AW: AAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

by hans.franke＠siemens.com

Whats wrong with that ? Gruss H. -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org] Im Auftrag von Vintage Computer Festival Gesendet: Freitag, 5. August 2005 09:07 An: Classic Computers Mailing List Betreff: AAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=5227183199 Read the description, then weep. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ]

18 years, 10 months

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test-drb August 2005