Hi Julian,
Ethan gave a very good description of the BR (4-5-6-7) and the NPR
wires. As he mentioned, try getting G7273's, and not just 2.
I have 10 of them, and currently (in the 11/34 with problems),
I removed all not needed boards in the CPU backplane. Then you
need 6 of those G7273 *if* you are not sure in which slot the NPR
wire is cut on the backplane.
If you are sure that the NPR wire is intact, you can put in a simple
G727, but you will find out soon why they are called knockle-busters.
So I prefer G7273's. BTW, the NPR wire runs from pin CA1 to pin CB1,
so that is position C. The G7273 goes into positions C-D, the small
G727 goes into position D.
If you need more info, ask. But there are a lot of people on this
list that sure know more than I do!
I have no experience with a core-based 11/34, but if the core is Ok,
that does not matter if it is core-based or DRAM-based memory.
One thing though, the core-11/34 has a different power supply brick
installed. +20V is my guess, but then again, no experience with
core-11/34's.
I see from you board description that youi have an M7800 installed
in the third slot. I assume that it is the console.
You must check (at least) 2 things.
1) the jumpers/DIPswitches. Is it configured for console?
2) check the components near the BERG connector. Do you see 1448/1449?
AFAIK, depending short loops on the BERG plug you make an RS-232 or
a 20 mA current loop connection ... needless to say that a standard
RS-232 connection on a term inal will not work with a 20 mA loop fromn
the M7800 ...
I have (at home) a note that uses the keypad to get a character on
the screen (via the console configured board) and read a character
on the 11/34 display when you hit a key on the keyboard of the terminal.
It is simple, you should be able to figure it out yourself :-)
- Henk, PA8PDP.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org
> [mailto:cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Julian Wolfe
> Sent: dinsdag 8 november 2005 23:19
> To: 'General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts'
> Subject: RE: 11/34a issues
>
> Is there any good way to test the unit piece by piece?
>
> Also, I noted in the manual, it says BUS ERR only denotes a
> bus error on the console, not on the processor, whatever that means.
>
> I have now confirmed that my grant cards are in correctly
> (facing the correct direction).
>
> When is it exactly that I need a grant card? Do I need them
> whenever position D isn't occupied? Or is there a
> stipulation to that?
>
> I'm thoroughly confused.
>
> Mind you, I have not yet connected a console to it. Maybe
> I'll do that tonight.
>
> Henk (or anyone else) if you can offer further assistance
> with this, I'd really appreciate it.
>
> TIA
> Julian
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org
> [mailto:cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org]
> On Behalf Of Gooijen, Henk
> Sent: Thursday, November 03, 2005 5:22 AM
> To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
> Subject: RE: 11/34a issues
>
> Hi Julian,
>
> you have at least response from the console ... never mind
> :-) When you press EXAM (or DEP) the M7859 must do a UNIBUS access.
> Grant problems will turn on BUS ERR, so there lies you first
> point of interest to check out.
>
> You say "I get that BUS ERR no matter what I do".
> Please tell exactly what "no matter ..." actions are.
>
> I have no experience with core based 11/34's, so I can not
> tell anything more about your board placement. The manual will tell!
> However, (not sure), if you have some G7273's, replace the
> G727's and put the G7273 in position C-D.
>
> BTW, I am not sure of "All grant cards are installed where
> you could read FLIP CHIP from the processor side". I am not
> near my 11/34. If "FLIP CHIP" is in the etch on the side
> where the 4 BR contacts are, then they might be installed
> wrong in the slot!
> AFAIR, it should be like this (seen from above towards the
> backplane, I can check that this evening):
>
> slot X slot 2 slot 1 <[most right]
> __ M8265 M8266
> | | position | | | |
> | | D | | | |
> | | ........... | | | |
> | | | | | |
> ----> | | | | | |
> |_| G727 | | | |
> this side | | | |
> has the | | | |
> contact | | | |
> fingers
>
> - Henk, PA8PDP.
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org
> > [mailto:cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Julian Wolfe
> > Sent: donderdag 3 november 2005 10:44
> > To: 'General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts'
> > Subject: 11/34a issues
> >
> > Okay, so I FINALLY worked out my BA11-K power supply issues and got
> > everything sorted out and installed again.
> >
> > However, I'm back to where I started when I got this thing (which I
> > never got past) - I turn it on, the display comes up at 173536.
> > However, whenever I try to EXAM anything, it displays
> 000000 and the
> > BUS ERR light comes on.
> > I can clear, but I get that BUS ERR no matter what I do. I haven't
> > got a serial console connected to it yet - I got this info by going
> > through the
> > 11/34 diagnostics in the manual.
> >
> > Here's my setup:
> >
> > BA11-K box
> > DD11-PK backplane
> >
> > UNIBUS layout:
> > A B C D E F
> >
> > M8266 M8266 M8266 M8266 M8266 M8266 1
> > M8265 M8265 M8265 M8265 M8265 M8265 2
> > M9301 M9301 M7800 M7800 M7800 M7800 3
> > H222A H222A H222A H222A H222A H222A 4
> > blank blank blank GRANT blank blank 5
> > H222A H222A H222A H222A H222A H222A 6
> > blank blank blank GRANT blank blank 7
> > M7850 M7850 M7859 M7859 M7859 M7859 8
> > M9302 blank blank GRANT blank blank 9
> >
> > I've tried switching some boards around, no help.
> >
> > All grant cards are installed where you could read FLIP
> CHIP from the
> > processor side.
> >
> > I have NO idea what's wrong. Is the memory possibly bad?
> > That's the only thing I could think of.
> >
> > Any help, as always, would be much appreciated.
> >
> > TIA
> > Julian
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Someone on this list mentioned that used LogicDart's are often missing the probes.
I just saw these on ebay.
# 7561285645 HP LogicDart Handheld Logic Analyzer Probes New E2310A
Brian
>
>Subject: Re: MSCP SCSI controller speed
> From: 9000 VAX <vax9000 at gmail.com>
> Date: Tue, 08 Nov 2005 10:14:14 -0500
> To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
>
>On 11/8/05, Tim Shoppa <tshoppa at wmata.com> wrote:
>> >From a post I made to the PDP-11 newsgroups in the previous
>> millenium:
>>...
>> Here are the peak data rates measured for read and write 64
>> blocks-at-a-time:
>>
>>
>> Read Write
>> ---------- ----------
>> Andromeda SCDC 2.298 MB/s 1.131 MB/s
>> CMD CQD440 2.397 MB/s 1.525 MB/s
>> CMD CQD220 1.418 MB/s 0.882 MB/s
>> CMD CQD220A 2.088 MB/s 1.409 MB/s
>> DEC RQZX1 1.379 MB/s 1.097 MB/s
>> Viking QDT 0.846 MB/s 0.704 MB/s
>> DEC RQDX3 0.164 MB/s 0.161 MB/s
>>
>
>Thank you. After analyzing the Qbus activity diagram I conclude that
>my controller won't be fast. There are several reasons.
>1. The overhead of 53C90A chip is significant. I may try 53C94/96 later.
>2. The ISA DMA is slow for the getpkt(), putpkt(), getdesc() and
>putdesc() functions. 80188XL won't be faster.
>3. The 80386-16 is slow in executing the MSCP code written in C.
>80188XL won't be faster.
>
>To improve 1, I need a faster SCSI chip, or need to integrate it into
>the CPLD. To improve 2, I need a small cache to speed up the DMA, or
>need a faster microprocessor. To improve 3, I need a faster
>microprocessor, and I may need to rewrite the code in assembly
>language.
>
>So the conclusion is, with the corrent design, the controller won't be
>fast. I am reluctant to rewrite it in assembly language because I
>don't want to divert too much away from the SIMH code. I may improve
>the code to speed it up a little bit, maybe to 400kB/s. I am happy
>that it can beat RQDX3.
>
>vax, 9000
Considering the major Qbus SCSI controllers do not have near the speed of a
slow 386 cpu, speed is not the issue. I'd have to look but I think none used
anything faster than maybe a 10mhz 68000.
While the 53C90 does have large overhead it's also not quite the bottleneck.
I would look first at the code. First place I'd peek at is to see what the
code overhead is. Also Qbus transfers can be block mode DMA for best speed
but watch the length as memory says 4words per block were a maximum to avoid
bus timout errors. ISA does not have this problem but it's fairly slow for
8bit moves (1meg Byte/S).
As to beating a RQDX thats easy consider that the MFM drives are 5mbits/S
range(.625k bytes/S burst) rate and slow seeking combined with no local
caching more than a sector or two. Also the CPU was a T-11 at a mere 7.5mhz.
I've considered hacking a SCSI controller for Qbus once. The approach
on paper was a PCI PC system board with a Adaptec2900 series controller
with a parallel adaptor to Qbus. That was focused on building as little
hardware as possible becuase the real task was software. The item
worked out were software as in PC level code that didn't require a
bootable OS (rom resident would be a winner). However the Qbus side
was sorted down to a M7941 parallel line unit (PIO) or M7950 (DMA) with
a driver based on one of the removable non-MSCP cartridge disks (RK, RL
or RM). I quit after realizing that I didn't have a 290x SCSI board
nor wished to program PCs. That and someone gave me a CMD SCSI adaptor. ;)
Allison
Does anybody have one of these keyboards? It's a full sized extended
keyboard with separate cursor and numeric areas. (Dont' confuse it with
the 5150jr, which looks more like a PC keyboard.)
I'm interested because there apparently was a bug in the keyboard eprom
that caused confusion between the numeric keypad and the cursor keypad.
Keytronics shipped a fix, and I'd like to get a clone of the fixed eprom.
Mike
The first thing that you need to do is to check the tape drive wheel and
see if it's gummy! If you put a tape in with a gummy wheel you'll ruin it
because the gummy material will stick to the tape and then it will be wound
up between layers of the tape. Then the next time that you use the tape the
gummy material will rip the magnetic media off the tape! Usually they're so
far gone that the "rubber" is melting and running. If it's not obviously
bad then use your finger or the eraser end of a pencil and press it to see
if it's soft. You should not be able to leave a permanent dent in it. If
it's soft or runny then don't put a tape in it unless you're willing to
ruin it.
BTW the old 40Mb tapes for the early tape drives (like the Irwin drives)
for PCs will work in those drives. You can find those around the trift
stores, surplus stores and hamfests. You can format them on the HP-85 using
the INITIALIZE command. Oh! And DEC CompacTapes will work in it too.
Joe
At 02:20 PM 11/8/05 -0700, you wrote:
>Anyone have one or two tapes they'd be willing to part with, or let me
>borrow briefly? I've got two of these machines and no tapes to go
>with, so I don't have a way to test the drives.
>
>Contact me off-list if you can help out or suggest a source.
>
>Thanks.
>
>- Mike
>
>
Hi list,
After some non-sleeping nights the QBUS MSCP SCSI controller is now
usable except that it is still controlled by the PC. I installed
NetBSD 1.5.2 and ran "cp base.tgz /dev/null", and the speed tested was
840KB/s. I am wondering how fast those commercial controllers are. I
would appreciate it if those of you who own those boards could let me
know. The design goal is to approach the fastest.
Thank you.
http://www.mscpscsi.com
vax, 9000
Hi Julian,
you have at least response from the console ... never mind :-)
When you press EXAM (or DEP) the M7859 must do a UNIBUS access.
Grant problems will turn on BUS ERR, so there lies you first
point of interest to check out.
You say "I get that BUS ERR no matter what I do".
Please tell exactly what "no matter ..." actions are.
I have no experience with core based 11/34's, so I can not tell
anything more about your board placement. The manual will tell!
However, (not sure), if you have some G7273's, replace the G727's
and put the G7273 in position C-D.
BTW, I am not sure of "All grant cards are installed where you
could read FLIP CHIP from the processor side". I am not near my
11/34. If "FLIP CHIP" is in the etch on the side where the 4
BR contacts are, then they might be installed wrong in the slot!
AFAIR, it should be like this (seen from above towards the
backplane, I can check that this evening):
slot X slot 2 slot 1 <[most right]
__ M8265 M8266
| | position | | | |
| | D | | | |
| | ........... | | | |
| | | | | |
----> | | | | | |
|_| G727 | | | |
this side | | | |
has the | | | |
contact | | | |
fingers
- Henk, PA8PDP.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org
> [mailto:cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Julian Wolfe
> Sent: donderdag 3 november 2005 10:44
> To: 'General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts'
> Subject: 11/34a issues
>
> Okay, so I FINALLY worked out my BA11-K power supply issues
> and got everything sorted out and installed again.
>
> However, I'm back to where I started when I got this thing
> (which I never got past) - I turn it on, the display comes up
> at 173536. However, whenever I try to EXAM anything, it
> displays 000000 and the BUS ERR light comes on.
> I can clear, but I get that BUS ERR no matter what I do. I
> haven't got a serial console connected to it yet - I got this
> info by going through the
> 11/34 diagnostics in the manual.
>
> Here's my setup:
>
> BA11-K box
> DD11-PK backplane
>
> UNIBUS layout:
> A B C D E F
>
> M8266 M8266 M8266 M8266 M8266 M8266 1
> M8265 M8265 M8265 M8265 M8265 M8265 2
> M9301 M9301 M7800 M7800 M7800 M7800 3
> H222A H222A H222A H222A H222A H222A 4
> blank blank blank GRANT blank blank 5
> H222A H222A H222A H222A H222A H222A 6
> blank blank blank GRANT blank blank 7
> M7850 M7850 M7859 M7859 M7859 M7859 8
> M9302 blank blank GRANT blank blank 9
>
> I've tried switching some boards around, no help.
>
> All grant cards are installed where you could read FLIP CHIP
> from the processor side.
>
> I have NO idea what's wrong. Is the memory possibly bad?
> That's the only thing I could think of.
>
> Any help, as always, would be much appreciated.
>
> TIA
> Julian
This message and attachment(s) are intended solely for the use of the addressee and may contain information that is privileged, confidential or otherwise exempt from disclosure under applicable law.
If you are not the intended recipient or agent thereof responsible for delivering this message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution, or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited.
If you have received this communication in error, please notify the sender immediately by telephone and with a "reply" message.
Thank you for your cooperation.
Well, I've run into an interesting problem with my PDP11/73. One of the
boot ROMs (the low byte) has gone phut - just reads back 0377 at all
addresses. I've proved it's the ROM that's at fault.
Is there a particular "favourite" boot ROM for the PDP11? I'm not sure
quite what mine was - it is used with a Baydel multifunction card (LTC,
console SLU and boot) and displayed a "COLLEGE OF AGRICULTURE" logo (the
machine originally came from Aberdeen College of Agriculture), and had
the option to boot a few different devices, including RL02, RX02 and MSCP.
I can get it to boot by typing in a loader in octal, after hitting BREAK.
Gordon.
