>
>Subject: Re: Ultrix for DECstations
> From: Wai-Sun Chia <waisun.chia at gmail.com>
> Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2005 10:31:19 +0800
> To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
>
>On 11/14/05, Allison <ajp166 at bellatlantic.net> wrote:
>> >
>>
>> Anyone ever do a wintel editor (NOT WORD) that had a single key for advance
>> cursor one word?
>>
>
>Well back then, whenever I was away from my VAXcluster, and was forced
>to use MS-DOS for something or another I used to use something called
>"sedt" (nicknamed "sad editor") which was a EDT clone on DOS. Anybody
>remembered that?
I may still have it. Didn't like it and it had "issues".
>As fro a single key cursor advance command, there's always the
>plethora of vi clones (elvis, vim, etc.) for Wintel...
First choice when all else fails, vi.
>Heck, in fact for those masochists there's a version of teco (yes the
>one which you used on the PDP-8!) for *NIX written in 'C'! :-) If you
>used it often enough you may even be pissed off enough to reinvent
>emacs again!
VTECO was a nice thing. EMACS was not.
My favorite for the CP/M world is VEDIT which was configurable video
editor with a drop to command (like vi) that understood TECO command
there. Very small too.
Allison
Rumor has it that Ethan Dicks may have mentioned these words:
>I've been thinking about the tiny-8008 project for some time - I may
>have to scrape together the parts and give it a go - I can always
>borrow an 8008 from my pile of 11/34 spare parts.
I've been thinking of building my own 6809 project (I have four AVR
projects and a couple serial ports on a Linksys router I need to build
first, tho)...[1]
Originally I was going to design and build my own buss structure /
backplane ( I was thinking 80 pins - 40-pin IDE headers are bog-easy to
find... ;-) something that could expand to a 16-bit CPU....
First card would be a fully buffered CPU, next card might be 256K or 512K
RAM, 3rd card might be a small LED/LCD display (2x40 or somesuch) and of
course, one card full'o'blinkinlights... ;-)
My question: Would I be better to do that, or should I center it around an
existing buss, like VME or somesuch?
>Of course, as soon as I do that, I'll have to rig something up for a
>4004... ;-) I think it wouldn't be too hard to make a 4004-based
>digital clock, at least in terms of the programming.
I've been wanting to build a digital thermostat. "Why spend $50 on one from
the local hardware store, when I can build one for $100!" ;-) Naw, besides,
the prebuilt thingies don't give enough 'programmability' for my tastes.
Having started out with the 6809, personally I find it hard to get excited
about 4-bit CPUs, myself... ;-)
[[ Altho I did have at one time that Radio Shack single-TI-chip-4-bit
computer trainer thingy... ]]
Ah well, back to work.
Laterz,
Roger "Merch" Merchberger
[1] I just got the latest (non-CVS) tarball of PCB compiled on my new Linux
From Scratch 6.1 install on my laptop - I'm ready to start designing things.
--
Roger "Merch" Merchberger | "Profile, don't speculate."
SysAdmin, Iceberg Computers | Daniel J. Bernstein
zmerch at 30below.com |
Rumor has it that Gooijen, Henk may have mentioned these words:
>... and to put oil on the fire, I am thinking about redoing the 6809 part,
>and replace it by a 68000 at 10 MHz. Maybe a single board with just
>enough I/O ports (not PIT 68230 IIRC, but simple octal latches) for
>the pdp8/e console and RAM plus EPROM on board.
>But as said: I am *thinking* about it.
>I probably first start figuring out if rewriting the pdp8/e emulator 6809
>code into 68000 assembler, making use of all the registers will give
>the speed increase to compete with the real pdp8/e.
>I have my doubts.
If you wanted to do something to make it go faster but not cause you to
rewrite everything, you could replace the Moto6809 with a Hitachi 6309 -
code / clock / pin compatible with the 6809, but if you set it to
"non-compatible mode," has access to extra registers, fewer cycles for most
instructions, not to mention a hardware divide & some 32-bit math instructions.
It'll also clock at 3 to 4 Mhz (for the CMOS part - the 63C09) so you could
see quite a speed increase for not a lot of work...
One downfall: they ain't cheap (altho cheaper than an 8008! ;-) and can be
tough to find if you don't know where to look. I do, tho. ;-)
Browze on over to http://www.cloud9tech.com/ - they keep 'em in stock
there, $31 each. Great guys, and are still supporting the CoCo!
Laterz,
Roger "Merch" Merchberger
--
Roger "Merch" Merchberger | Anarchy doesn't scale well. -- Me
zmerch at 30below.com. |
SysAdmin, Iceberg Computers
... and to put oil on the fire, I am thinking about redoing the 6809 part,
and replace it by a 68000 at 10 MHz. Maybe a single board with just
enough I/O ports (not PIT 68230 IIRC, but simple octal latches) for
the pdp8/e console and RAM plus EPROM on board.
But as said: I am *thinking* about it.
I probably first start figuring out if rewriting the pdp8/e emulator 6809
code into 68000 assembler, making use of all the registers will give
the speed increase to compete with the real pdp8/e.
I have my doubts.
BTW, I have built mid-1995 a simple 68000 design. I could scan it.
64-pin 68000, 2x2764, 2xTC5565, 6800 plus glue logic *and* address
and data bus buffers on a single Eurocard. It was modular, as the bus
allowed extra cards for PIA's, RAM, EPROM, etc.
The above mentioned new design idea is probably loading the CPU a
little, because I don't intend to use buffers. Time is the big enemy here!
- Henk, PA8PDP.
________________________________
Van: cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org namens woodelf
Verzonden: wo 16-11-2005 18:18
Aan: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Onderwerp: Re: homebrew 'puter project
Roger Merchberger wrote:
>
> I've been thinking of building my own 6809 project (I have four AVR
> projects and a couple serial ports on a Linksys router I need to build
> first, tho)...[1]
>
You may be better off splitting it into two cards -- cpu and memory and
console.
A second board for I/O and a optional third for blinking lights. Don't
forget Henk has a 6809
cpu that has great blinking lights. It emulates a pdp 8.
http://www.pdp-11.nl/
This message and attachment(s) are intended solely for the use of the addressee and may contain information that is privileged, confidential or otherwise exempt from disclosure under applicable law.
If you are not the intended recipient or agent thereof responsible for delivering this message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution, or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited.
If you have received this communication in error, please notify the sender immediately by telephone and with a "reply" message.
Thank you for your cooperation.
I think I've found the problem with my RL02 drive. Tracing back
through the fault detector logic, the Clock Error Detector output
is set. Backing up to the entrance, the 4.1 MHz system clock is
coming in correctly on the two 75107 line receiver differential
input pins (E61 1 and 2) but no clock is coming out of it... no
clock -> no operation -> Fault light on :)
Hope they aren't unobtainium parts!
Meanwhile Tim Radde also has pointed out something else important
I'd overlooked, namely that the pack cover has to be put upside
down over the pack (when installed) in order to activate the
cartridge interlock switch. (I had somehow missed this line in the
instruction manual despite what I thought was a careful reading of
the text) :P so it would have been a problem sooner or later
anyway.
-Charles
>
>Subject: Re: removing parts from PCBs
> From: Paul Koning <pkoning at equallogic.com>
> Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2005 09:51:50 -0500
> To: cctalk at classiccmp.org
>
>I remember that episode. The result was "Aridus" :-), now known as
>the 9000.
Also short lived as CMOS got faster..
> Allison> It's still packaging. ;)
>
>Yes. And if your circuit density isn't all that high, air cooling
>works fine.
>
>That's why Cray actually had to solve these problems, and did back in
>the early 1960s (CDC 6600), because he DID build things that could not
>sanely be cooled any other way.
The difference is that Cray was pushing tech harder than most and enjoyed
the unique position of faster than most by alot could justify the cost
and complexity. To do that they had to be smaller (the old 1ns/ft problem)
and that was a heat vs volume issue. Refigeration was the only way out.
They would revisit that again with the XMP. However over time the same
scene tended to play out. Those that pushed and resorted to exotic
cooling would be pushed out. Also those exoticly cooled machines
tended to not find a second market making them scarce faster.
>I don't ever remember hearing of leak problems in our Cybers...
Likely not. If there was it would be a really bad scene. I bet any
shutdown for more than minutes would have been viewed quite severely.
My view of that period was large systems ran 24/7 and all maintenence
was to be closely scheduled. I bet the CEs were also checking the loop
and maybe running a pressure hold test on occasion to assure integrity.
But the designers had to have paid close attention to things like assembly
repair, vibration and what not to insure it worked as expected planned.
Remins me of the mainframe mini joke I'd heard years ago. Minis have power
switches, mainframes have BIG RED BUTTONS (emergency power off).
Allison
>
>Subject: Re: removing parts from PCBs
> From: William Donzelli <aw288 at osfn.org>
> Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2005 10:33:01 -0500 (EST)
> To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
>
>> Likely not. If there was it would be a really bad scene. I bet any
>> shutdown for more than minutes would have been viewed quite severely.
>
>I only remember an IBM 3081 that had a very bad meltdown due to a hose
>break or something, and the system could not shot down fast
>enough. Generally, a loss in pressure would throw the machine into a check
>state and do a really fast shutdown.
I can see some might melt if there was cooling loss. I was thinking about
execs screaming about millions of dollars of computers idle for other than
requried scheduled maintenace.
I read a story about a 709 that had a room chiller leak. Seems the raised
floor and cable troughs were floating and it kept on ticking. Apparently
there was some unwillingness to shutdown as the just was near complete
and it would take days to repair/restart.
>> Remins me of the mainframe mini joke I'd heard years ago. Minis have power
>> switches, mainframes have BIG RED BUTTONS (emergency power off).
>
>BIG RED PULLS, actually...
I know but, the joke didn't work as well with that. ;)
Allison
> The real problem with water is not it's conductivity. High power
> tube transmitters have used distilled water in the past as it's a
> really poor conductor if kept clean.
They still do as it's harmless, you can make it on site and it's
cheap.
Resistivity of > 10Mohm/cc is practical, > 20Mohm/cc is doable and
< 2Mohm/cc is too poor to use.
It's strange to watch water cascade out from behind the panels of
a transmitter and wonder if there's enough water left to finish the
transmission.
Lee.
..
___________________________________________________________
To help you stay safe and secure online, we've developed the all new Yahoo! Security Centre. http://uk.security.yahoo.com
>
>Subject: Re: 8008?
> From: Tom Uban <uban at ubanproductions.com>
> Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2005 13:48:00 -0600
> To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org>,
> cctalk at classiccmp.org
>
>I don't know what it's worth, but you could always use it to build
>Jim Kearney's Tiny8:
>
>http://www.jkearney.com/tiny8demo/
>
>I did and I love it...
>
That is a really nicely done minimal parts 8008 system. I plan to copy it
once I find the displays.
Allison
