> -----Original Message-----
> From: Richard Erlacher [mailto:edick@idcomm.com]
> That stuff is irrelevant, since *nix was demonstrated to be
> an insufferable
> cost and pain back in '82. Someting that ugly and
> unfriendly, that tore down
> the system each time an application had to be patched,
> resulting in days of
> downtime was just not acceptable. As a result, *nix hasn't
> gotten much of a
> look around here since then, aside from a brief peek at
> Linux. ... and
> neither has SUN hardware.
General relevancy aside (I assume you're speaking subjectively
for you own use above)... In the context of being used for --
whatever you use your computer for -- I'd agree that its relative
ability in any area is irrelevant if you won't consider using it
anyway.
I just wanted to mention, in case anyone reading may not know, that
it's no longer the case (and has not been for a very long time)
that you must re-build the kernel every time you'd like a new driver.
Chris
Christopher Smith, Perl Developer
Amdocs - Champaign, IL
/usr/bin/perl -e '
print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n");
'
On Sun, 5 May 2002, Ted Harris wrote:
>
> The Freshest Bulk Email Lists
> at Deep Discount Prices
>
> Datasurplus is the best source for bulk email lists.?
>
> All lists are harvested within the last 3 weeks.
Well, at least now I know who harvested my email address from the list...
(I started getting massive amounts of spam a couple weeks after my first
post here...)
-Toth
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Cameron Kaiser [mailto:spectre@stockholm.ptloma.edu]
> > Sorry, I have to argue with you here ;)
> > The fact (well, at least my opinion) is that Apple makes it easy to
> > remain completely ignorant of most important things about their
> > computer while still "using" them.
> For five years? Granted, I'm a bit more clueful than the
Well, again, all I can say is that I've seen it happen. More extreme
than the usual case, of course, but it's certainly not impossible.
Though, Dick actually strikes me as more clueful than the last
person that I know who managed it.
> average home computer
> user, but within weeks I was into the guts of my Macs. Not to
> the extent I'm
> into my C64, but that's a less complex system.
Yep. It's not impossible, given the motivation. Most people
are missing that part, though ;)
> At the very least, in five years he could have learned to
> write Macintosh
> correctly.
Could have -- may not have.
> Apple actually has very good utility software. MPW has been
> free for some
> time, for example. And there's the Apple Developer
Hey, I love MPW. It's great. I used it daily when I was writing
Mac code, but it certainly didn't come with the system, and it's
not something that Apple encourages people to have.
> Connection, too, which
> you can browse freely, and oodles of tech notes and explanations.
Indeed. Apple is much friendlier to developers than microsoft,
who I find that I have to deal with recently. :/
> Like everything else in life, you get out of the system what
> you put into it.
Yep, which brings us back to my point that Apple really doesn't
encourage people to learn about their systems. They've positioned
themselves as "the system that you don't have to put so much
into," have they not?
Chris
Christopher Smith, Perl Developer
Amdocs - Champaign, IL
/usr/bin/perl -e '
print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n");
'
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Chris [mailto:mythtech@mac.com]
> Richard... are you being treated for your compulsive liar behavior
> problems? You can not possibly have 5+ years of daily Mac use
> under your
> belt, and show the ignorance of Mac concepts you showed when
> asking about
> the AppleVision monitor and the Performa 630 (or whatever
> model it was
> you bought).
Sorry, I have to argue with you here ;)
The fact (well, at least my opinion) is that Apple makes it easy to
remain completely ignorant of most important things about their
computer while still "using" them.
(I'll define "using" in the above as "doing the same mundane things
that everyone else does with their computer")
I'd say that Apple even encourages user-ignorance by not including
applications that will even let you get at the filesystem with their
O/S -- Finder doesn't count because it won't show desktop (and friends)
at all, and God help you if you want to set file attributes. With
OS X, that's hopefully changed.
That lack of utility software, among other things done by Apple (think
all-in-one, closed box designs) serves to keep users in the dark about
many things.
Now, I can't prove this, but I've personally seen it, so take that
how you will. I've of course heard all of the Mac Zealot spin on
my complaints above and I know all about how some people think that
those things are actually advantages -- like a mouse that has only
one button... to avoid confusion -- , but I don't buy it :)
The thing is that I really do like Apple, and a lot of their hardware
and software, and I hope to see it become a good product (for me, It's
already a fine product for some people) some day.
> Not to mention, you stated back when it all started that you haven't
> seriously touched a computer by Apple in 15 years except to pull the
> power supplies from them.
Ok, that's somewhat of an odd statement in context.
Could it be that he wasn't doing "serious" work on the systems at the
time?
Chris
Christopher Smith, Perl Developer
Amdocs - Champaign, IL
/usr/bin/perl -e '
print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n");
'
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Richard Erlacher [mailto:edick@idcomm.com]
> word. People who've never even heard the word computer
> before can be writing
> letters and reports within 10 minutes of their first contact
> with Windows. In
Are you sure? That's remarkable, but I don't believe it for
a minute. :) I'd be impressed if you've seen this demonstrated,
and more impressed if, after writing the letter, they could ever
find it again.
> the first time I ever encountered Windows, I loaded it up started an
> application and was going within minutes, having read no doc's, having
> compiled no kernel, and having done little else other than
> typing the setup
... but you had seen a computer before, right?
Chris
Christopher Smith, Perl Developer
Amdocs - Champaign, IL
/usr/bin/perl -e '
print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n");
'
> -----Original Message-----
> From: David Woyciesjes [mailto:DAW@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu]
> ...and now some flashbacks to the DB15 - DE15 naming convention
> thread...Eeek!
I vote that we hereafter call the DE15 "ZQ32," and the Macintosh, to
avoid confusion, can be "Grundey."
Chris
Christopher Smith, Perl Developer
Amdocs - Champaign, IL
/usr/bin/perl -e '
print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n");
'
> From: Chris
>
> >... and just exactly where does one find a precise reference to this
> >convention?
>
> I can't quote a source, but I can say that traditionally, in English, all
> caps refers to an anacronym. And since MAC has something it stands for,
> each and every time you refer to a Macintosh as "MAC" you are in fact
> refering to something other than the Macintosh computer.
>
> And typing it as MacIntosh is just simply wrong. Look at any literature
> by Apple, you will never see it with a capitol I. I think that is a throw
> off from people that are typing it via the name of the fruit, which is
> ALSO wrong, since the name of the fruit is McIntosh (no a).
>
> Its just a pet peeve... I'm not going to really care if you continue to
> type it MAC... but doing so shows a gross ignorance of the platform, and
> really undermines any and all arguments you may have to say for or
> against it. You can't really take someone seriously in discusssions of a
> system if they can't refer to it correctly, as it just shows that they
> have spent so little time dealing with the system, that they clearly
> can't base their statements on anything educated. It doesn't matter if it
> is the Mac, or if it is something else.
>
> -chris
>
...and now some flashbacks to the DB15 - DE15 naming convention
thread...Eeek!
--
--- David A Woyciesjes
--- C & IS Support Specialist
--- Yale University Press
--- mailto:david.woyciesjes@yale.edu
--- (203) 432-0953
--- ICQ # - 905818
Mac OS X 10.1 - Darwin Kernel Version 5
Running since 01/22/2002 without a crash
>but I do have 5+ years of daily
>Macintosh use under my belt.
I can't... I just can't any more. I have been trying to be nice to
Richard despite all the clear flame bait he has been throwing out here.
But with his comment above, I just can't any more.
Richard... are you being treated for your compulsive liar behavior
problems? You can not possibly have 5+ years of daily Mac use under your
belt, and show the ignorance of Mac concepts you showed when asking about
the AppleVision monitor and the Performa 630 (or whatever model it was
you bought).
Not to mention, you stated back when it all started that you haven't
seriously touched a computer by Apple in 15 years except to pull the
power supplies from them.
So unless your 5+ years of daily use are to clean the screen, you must be
full of BS (is that it, you aren't really into computers... you just work
as a janitor at a computer museum, and like to pretend?)
I'm sorry... I just can't do it any more.
-chris
<http://www.mythtech.net>
Christopher Smith said:
> Debian's nice, but it has its share of "political" garbage too, like
> the "GNU/Linux" plastered all over the place, or the fact that they
> insist on keeping "non-free" software separate.
It's not just "garbage". There is a reason for it, that the majority
of the Debian community agrees with, or it wouldn't be done. Plain and
simple. I'm sure you are already aware of the reasons, but reject them.
What you label "garbage" are the very attributes that many Debian members
hold dear.
If you don't like Debian, you are free to either attempt to improve it,
or join the ranks of others who use a different system. It's a personal
choice. Debian is different for a reason.
--
Ryan Underwood, <nemesis at icequake.net>, icq=10317253
I just found some old N* Horizon parts during a cleaning fit. I have the
following:
Lots of hard sector disks
2 64 RAM board.
2 FD controllers
2 Z80B boards
2 FD drives
1 motherboard
I do have the cases (with the PS and such, but only until Thursday, since
they are scheduled to be pitched this week. They aren't in the best of
shape, and they are SO heavy, so I pulled what I thought was worth the
shipping weight cost out of the 2 units. If you do want a case part or a
capacitor, let me know before Thursday so I can have my wife pull the part
off the chopping block.
Anyone interested in S100 parts and hard sector disks? The units were
working last time I used them, but that was 5 years ago. I make no
promises. If there are a few folks, I want to spread the wealth.
Basically, I just don't want the parts to sit in the landfill.
You might want to email me directly, to not clog up the list, and because I
have limited access to email this week while out of the office and lists
will probably get queued until next week.
Jim
Jim Brain, jbrain(a)aegonusa.com
"Researching tomorrow's decisions today."
(319) 369-2070 (work)
SYSTEMS ARCHITECT, ITS, AEGON FINANCIAL PARTNERS
