test-drb September 2001

test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org

256 participants
661 discussions

by dec.parts＠verizon.net

Hi Gang, With our contacts to 1200 companies, in 100 countries, on 6 continents, my company is going to try to source these parts. It's doubtful they would buy directly from private individuals in single quantities, but we will. If any of you have CPU and Memory modules for VAX 7800's that you would like to sell, email back the module numbers and your asking prices immediately. Sincerely, Bennett

22 years, 10 months

Classic Computers vs. Classic Computing

by dittman＠dittman.net

> I like to and MyZ80 allows it to be more portable than my S100 crate or > the Kaypro. > Then again, my AmproLB system with 45mb disk is far smaller than most > PCs. My AmproLB doesn't have the SCSI daughterboard so I prefer an emulator. I used to have the LB stuck in a full-size tower with my Wintel system along with a couple of 5.25" floppies. The primary serial port went back to one of the Wintel system's serial ports and the light and reset button went on another 5.25" cover plate. Unfortunately an emulator was more convenient. -- Eric Dittman dittman(a)dittman.net Check out the DEC Ethusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/

22 years, 10 months

L@@K and L@UGH!

by dittman＠dittman.net

> >Well if its a KA694 then that wouldn't be a horrible price. I don't > have my > >KA670 out of the machine so that I could check against that one. It > > >definitely doesn't look like the KA692. > > The REX520 screams Rigel to me: KA670. > I don't have one handy to visually > inspect though. > > Look at the AlphaServer 2100 memory auction too: same price! The specs (28ns) are definitely KA670, plus it looks like the KA670 I sold just this past week. -- Eric Dittman dittman(a)dittman.net Check out the DEC Ethusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/

22 years, 10 months

Anyone want an 11/750 & 11/730 out of New Jersey?

by mcguire＠neurotica.com

You, sir, are a freak. ;) -Dave On September 15, Chad Fernandez wrote: > Well, Okay, which one of you is the Queen? :-) > > Chad Fernandez > Michigan, USA > > Brian Hechinger wrote: > > > in most cases i speak for dave and myself. we're a collective. :) -- Dave McGuire Laurel, MD

22 years, 10 months

Solomon Splitting the list... (was: Classic Computers vs. Classic

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

>> > I've never seen SPDT dipswitches in computers. I have some. Also I have some S100 boards that used them for address selection. Allison

22 years, 10 months

Classic Computers vs. Classic Computing

by dhquebbeman＠theestopinalgroup.com

Ok, We all need a topic to take our minds of the WTC attack. Here's one I've been meaning to bring up, surely it will generate a lot of discussion. In a recent thread, Tony Duell expressed a lack of interest in the emulators and simulators of old iron that are now circulating. His reasons centered around his love of hardware. From my perspective, it appears that for Tony, the experience of computing cannot be separated from the experiencing of the computer. My reading of this mailinglist's charter leads me to conclude that the group is here for the benefit of the Tonys (BTW, Tony, I'm *not* picking on you) in the world, those for whom the hardware *is* the end-all be-all of the Classic _Computer_ experience. I confess I don't like that- the Classic Computers for which I lust the most will forever remain inaccessible (and few examples will even continue to exist). However, as both an RJE operator and as a mainframe user, I found the experience to be more about the _computing_ and less about the _computer_. Exceptions included (back in the 70s) of building an IMSAI, a SOL, hacking a KIM-1, etc. But after we got the hardware running, the fun part was in creating the _computing environment_. So, I think the formal name and the charter of this group should change to reflect an interest in Class Computing. The only real change would be that discussions about the eumlators and simulators would no longer be OT unless they drift into details of programming the emu/simulators themselves. Additionally, more detailed discussions of the Classic Operating Systems would be similarly on-topic. I'm not sure how many of you have ever thought about this; but now that I've broached the subject, whaddy'all think? Regards, -doug quebbeman

22 years, 10 months

Classic Computers vs. Classic Computing

by dhquebbeman＠theestopinalgroup.com

> > For a monitor, I followed Lancaster's instructions on how to take > > an old B&W TV set and pull the unneeded circuitry (except for the > > tubes; they stayed in, heaters wired in series). The mods all helped > > In the UK, most series-string valve TV sets had a hot chassis (directly > connected to one side of the mains). Actually, a number of transistorised > sets did as well. [..snip..] > Did US TVs have proper isolating mains transformers, even though they had > series-string heaters? No; I bought an isolation transformer, a stand-alone unit. > > And I think I even got to like the smell of solder.. especially > > the Ersin Multicore stuff made in the U.K... why, there's some > > Nice, isn't it :-) Yup! > > yes, I've used all kinds of techniques to repair such damage. > > As have I. It gets more fun when it's an SMD-built board, with tracks > very close together :-) Haven't ever had to *fix* a multilayer board, but did hack on one (early Mac). > > > > But you can't damage software... which is one of the things that > > Hmmm... If you don't have backups you can :-) Oh, I got the backup religion long, long ago... > Actually, one thing I tend to worry about it misconfiguring a piece of > software and not being able to go back to the original configuration that > worked at least partially. Doing the same with hardware never bothers me. On the tricky stuff, I try to save the configurations, either in files, or on paper. > I gurss it comes down to experience. I know enough about hardware to see > what I've done and put it right. The same is not true of software... I've also done some embedded systems hardware development. But it tended to be taking the evaluation design from the databooks and massaging it into a working design, so I can't take too much credit. > > resisters, capacitors, transistors, and 7400-series chips. It > > How good will that emulation be? If I accidentally connect a pin on the > TTL chip to the -15V rail, what happens? Does the chip fail in the same > way that a real one does? Are you going to be able to emulate every > possible circuit (hint : No CAD system's simulator has ever maanged to > 'pass' my tests (namely a dozen or so nasty circuits). Would you settle for a graphic rendering of the magic smoke escaping? ;-) > > could also have an emulated soldering iron & solder. Ever wish > > I suppose you're going to add a little heater element and some flux so as > to give the right smells (a bit like those smoke generators the model > railway crowd use). And a device that burns my fingers from time to time. That might have to wait for the development of tactile interfaces, but rest assured, that's well underway... > I suppose next you'll be suggesting the floor of the emulated machine > room does not magically transport small components dropped on it into > another room.... So, your shop has funky space-time problems, too? ;-) -dq

22 years, 10 months

Classic Computers vs. Classic Computing

by dhquebbeman＠theestopinalgroup.com

> On the real machine you can solder up a few TTL chips, wire them to the > bus connector and add another peripheral. You can't easilly do that on an > emulator. Or you can solder wires onto the chips on the CPU board of a > mini, clip a logic analyser to them, and watch the data flow through the > ALU and registers. > > Yes, you can do _similar_ things with emulators, but not quite the same. > No flames intended, but I'll stick to the real machines ;-) BTW, if it wasn't implicit (it is to me), I wouldn't have much of a need for an emulator for a machine that's readily available, or if rare, easy on the pocketbook to keep running (parts, electricity, etc). We can't all be Megan Gentry, Eric Smith, or Daniel Seagraves (owners of DEC-10&20s who come immediately to mind)... Now, Jim Battle's doing a SOL emulator. Great idea, I might want to play with a SOL at work. But my SOL was the machine I did exactly the kinds of things you describe. Unlike many, I didn't buy even the complete SOL kit. I bought only the motherboard and a folder of schematics and instructions for component assembly. By December 1976, all it could do was display a test pattern consisting of essentially a dump of the character generator ROM. As time went by, I continued buying components. It was getting close to being finished, but I needed a keyboard. I bought one surplus, taken from a TI Silent 700. However, the strobe was inverted and either too long or too short (can't recall). So I fingered through Don Lancaster's TTL Cookbook until I came across the 74121, which I hadn't used yet. I used it to change the strobe width, and one gate in a NAND wired as an inverter to flip the logic direction. Next, I needed some kind of key-repeat. Like many early terminals, there was no auto-repeat, but instead, the keyboard included a REPEAT key. A couple of 555s and some more gates from the NAND, and I was almost done. I ended up adding a lightpen interface to the design, then built it up permanently using a Rat Shack proto board. Stuck that inside a generic keyboard enclosure along with the TI keyboard, and I could now talk to my SOL. For a monitor, I followed Lancaster's instructions on how to take an old B&W TV set and pull the unneeded circuitry (except for the tubes; they stayed in, heaters wired in series). The mods all helped boost the bandwidth of the monitor a bit. The image quality ended up being quite good, and I sold it to another guy who'd bought a complete SOL kit sans monitor (I'd bought an actual monitor by this time). I enjoyed every minute of the 18 months it took me to make that forty-dollar naked PC board into a usable computer. Or termninal, actually... its raison d'etre was to hook up to my beloved and much missed CDC 6600 & DEC-10! And I think I even got to like the smell of solder.. especially the Ersin Multicore stuff made in the U.K... why, there's some now, and no iron in sight... But as much as I enjoyed fooling with hardware, the software had an even stronger draw. Just as you can only erase a piece of paper so many times before it disintegrates, you can only re- solder a PC board so many times before you've fried it. And yes, I've used all kinds of techniques to repair such damage. But you can't damage software... which is one of the things that I find attractive about it. Emulators represent the ultimate convergence of hardware and software... Hey, I just had an idea... how about an emulator that goes all the way down to the component level? One which actually emulates resisters, capacitors, transistors, and 7400-series chips. It could also have an emulated soldering iron & solder. Ever wish you had three hands for a difficult assembly? No problem in this proposed emulator! We'll just add an emulated hand... or two... or... ;-) -dq

22 years, 10 months

Q. Who remembers the "see" editor for the ibm pc?

by cmurillo＠emtelsa.multi.net.co

I just realized that every now and then I still use the first editor that I learned for the ibm pc, whenever I'm too lazy or don't need the power of vi (and the file that I want to edit is less than 64K in size). It is called see.exe and it is 32768 bytes long. The version string reads SEE: Screen Editor V2.0: (c) 1982,83,84 Michael Ouye The file date is 3-16-84. For its size, it is actually pretty useful and you can even record and replay macros. It is one of the first programs that I copy to any pc-compatible even if it (the pc) has been winblowsized. Is anybody acquainted with this program? carlos. -------------------------------------------------------------- Carlos E. Murillo-Sanchez carlos_murillo(a)nospammers.ieee.org

22 years, 10 months

VAXEN

by donm＠cts.com

Looks as though there is a growing demand for them. - don -------- Path: nntp.cts.com!galanthis.cts.com!newspeer.cts.com!newshub.sdsu.edu!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!sunqbc.risq.qc.ca!nf3.bellglobal.com!border1.nntp.aus1.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!nntp3.aus1.giganews.com!bin1.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Message-ID: <3BA123E5.CCB1F35C(a)iu.net> From: Bob C <bc(a)iu.net> X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en] (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: comp.os.vms Subject: VAX 7800 Systems or CPUs needed ASAP Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 8 NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 16:28:22 CDT Organization: Giganews.Com - Premium News Outsourcing X-Trace: sv3-JMoUAGiispUQRU0wjhKYuMTuQMXLo3hljdoJWqTau+DeJJ1pFvbWSWDRk+pkOKwIVY/GNjelq2JqzY3!5//51v4yYd2SKBszu/VredTz1sjnRL367Ttr614cxdfTn0ewLiOGSGhQ9wM= X-Complaints-To: abuse(a)GigaNews.Com X-DMCA-Notifications: http://www.giganews.com/info/dmca.html X-Abuse-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 21:28:22 GMT Xref: nntp.cts.com comp.os.vms:104521 One of our customers lost a lot of VAXes in the WTC attack. If you have any excess VAX 7800 let me know and I'll connect you with the right resources. Thanks Bob Comarow -- end of forwarded message --

22 years, 10 months

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test-drb September 2001