On June 7, Sellam Ismail wrote:
> > > Geez....Microsoft created over 300 new newsgroups in the last day....
> >
> > As if it's not bad enough that those idiots have set our industry
> > back about fifteen years. NOW they're wasting bandwidth on top of it!
>
> I enjoy a good Microsoft bashing as much as the next nerd, but 300
> newsgroups out of the 50,000 or so that are currently in existence is not
> going to break any camel backs ;)
Oh, c'mon. It was a good enough excuse for me. ;)
-Dave McGuire
On Jun 7, 0:36, Megan wrote:
> Pete Turnbull wrote:
> >Allison, for once I feel you're wrong. An 11/53 is a distinct processor
> I don't think that was the point of what she was saying... I think it
> was that although the *BOX* said 11/53, there was actually an 11/23
> plugged into the bus. I can understand that might be the case nowadays,
> with all the moving of boards and such... but I cannot believe that
> DEC ever marketed a machine which said 11/53 which might contain an
> 11/23 processor... someone surely would have noticed and had a problem
> with it...
Megan, I agree with what you say about boards being moved around. Of my
ten or so PDP-11 systems only three or four had the "right" processor when
I got them. But I got the distinct impression Allison was (at least at one
stage) suggesting that (early) 11/53 systems were intended to have a
processor that wasn't a distinct member of the 11/x3 family.
Allison wrote:
> Isn't the 11/53 the box name and the cpu being either an 11/73
> or 11/23B?
Well, then it's not an 11/53 any more :-)
--
Pete Peter Turnbull
Network Manager
University of York
On Jun 6, 21:43, ajp166 wrote:
> From: Pete Turnbull <pete(a)dunnington.u-net.com>
> What part of what I wrote is unclear? The comment is most 11/53s I've
> seen contained 11/23B cpus. that maybe "not as shipped" but very
> commonplace.
>
> >office use. When it was announced (1987), it was as a J11 processor
> with
> >separate I&D space and RAM on the processor card -- which no 11/23 has.
> I
> >never heard of one having an 11/23 as shipped by DEC.
>
>
> Never said it was. I said many early 11/53boxen HAD 11/23s not they
> shipped
> with 11/23s. Seems they were fertile ground for modified systems.
It read as if you were saying an 11/53 could have a M8189. Of course a box
can have a particular label, but have some other CPU in it - I have a few
like that. But a box labeled 11/53 and having an 11/23 procssor in it is
an 11/23, not an 11/53. It won't run RSX-11M or Ultrix configured for an
11/53, or various things.
I'm surprised you say it's common. I can see that in a few cases the
processor might be removed to use elsewhere, but how many systems end up
with a 5-years-older processor in them? In my experience, it's much more
common to see systems with later processors in them (though I'm thinking of
11/03 -> 11/23, 11/23 -> 11/73, 11/73 -> 11/83, microVAX -> microVAX-II
upgrades).
--
Pete Peter Turnbull
Network Manager
University of York
29-28310-01 IC8X4 MULTIPLEXOR BOARD
I don't know if this falles under the classic here, but any info I can get
on this would be great! compaq has been less than helpful on telling me
what it is....
The AViiON's were made by Data General, of NOVA fame.
The first models appeared 1991 or therebouts. These
used the (then) new Motorola 88000 RISC processor chip
set.
They made desktop (AV-300) and deskside (AV-400,500)
workstations, as well as multi-processor servers
(AV-8000's for example). The first ones were kinda
slow, owing to the 1st generation RISC processor and a
rather overweight UNIX port (DG/UX).
Later multi-processor machines (some had as many as
eight, IIRC) using the 88110 processor were much
faster.
Mot dropped the ball (as usual) in the mid-90's and
abandoned the 88000 in favor of the PowerPC*.
When this happened, DG shifted over to the 'Dark Side'
(i.e. Intel) and have done nothing remarkable after
that.
IMNHO, only 88k AViiONs are really worth keeping
(unless you're *really* into WINNT). DG/UX is okay,
I guess; but I mostly like the fact that technical docs
are available for at least one model (AV-530), and it
has VME cardslots.
*Footnote:
What's truly tragic, is that Apple was preparing to
manufacture 88000-based mac's (several prototypes were
built in the early nineties). This project was
squashed by internal politics, however.
On 7 Jun 2001 1:59:57 +0100 "Iggy Drougge" <optimus(a)canit.se> writes:
> Isn't the Aviion the Motorola 88000 based line of workstations by
> General Electric or some other megalomaniac corporation?
________________________________________________________________
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There was a transition period where they made both kinds
of machines. The 88000 was Mot's first attempt at RISC.
Good design, lousy marketing, lousy support.
On Wed, 06 Jun 2001 17:02:32 -0700 "Edwin P. Groot" <epgroot(a)ucdavis.edu>
writes:
> Before passing it over I took a quick look at the manual, dated
> sometime after 1995. It mentioned both intel-based and 88000-based
> computers. Never heard of an 88000. Is that Motorola?
________________________________________________________________
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I have a 11/73 and several 11/23s (some with clock mods for speed)
so I'm aware of what I said. MOST early 11/53 boxen actually had 11/23B
cpu cards (M8189).
Oh yes, I do have a very fast 11/23B as a result of a modded clock.
Allison
-----Original Message-----
From: Jonathan Engdahl <engdahl(a)cle.ab.com>
To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org>
Date: Wednesday, June 06, 2001 2:45 PM
Subject: RE: PDP-11/53+ Jumpers
>The M7554 has a Qbus on the A-B connector, and nothing but grant jumpers
and
>power on the C-D connector.
>
>I don't know anything about 11/73's, but the first thing I noticed when
I
>got the 11/53 to boot was "Whoa! -- this thing is a lot faster than an
>11/23".
>
>Maybe Allison had better go looking for someone with a very fast "11/23"
and
>get his CPU board back!
>
>--
>Jonathan Engdahl Rockwell Automation
>Principal Research Engineer 24800 Tungsten Road
>Advanced Technology Euclid, OH 44117, USA
>Euclid Labs engdahl(a)cle.ab.com 216-266-6409
>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org
>> [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Pete Turnbull
>> Sent: Wednesday, June 06, 2001 3:22 AM
>> To: classiccmp
>> Subject: Re: PDP-11/53+ Jumpers
>>
>>
>> On Jun 5, 22:37, ajp166 wrote:
>> > Isn't the 11/53 the box name and the cpu being either an 11/73
>> > or 11/23B? All the 11/53s I've seen had 11/23B cpus (M8189).
>>
>> No, an 11/53 processor is an M7554, which is a quad board with J11,
half a
>> meg of memory, 2 SLUs, bootstrap, etc. It's rather like an
>> 11/73B but with
>> added memory (and no PMI capability, I think). It was designed as a
low
>> end system, and IIRC it's slightly slower than an 11/73.
>>
>> If you saw 11/53 BA23's with 11/23's in them, someone swapped the
>> cards, or
>> swapped the labels.
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Pete Peter Turnbull
>> Network Manager
>> University of York
>>
>
Hi all..
This is just a quick test. I replied to the digest version of the list a few
days ago but haven't seen that message in the digest, so I'm wondering what
happened. Mind you could be it was deleted in disgust by the system because
I likely accidentally included the whole text of the digest in my reply.
Ooops!!
By the way, I'm just getting into the classic computer thing. I found an
IMSAI in beautiful shape a few years ago at an auction, and just recently a
dusty old SWTPc 6800 at a flea market. The SWTP inspired me to find a source
for intelligent knowledge about these old beasts. Right now I'm trying to
talk to the IMSAI with my Hazeltine 1500 using current loop. I'm also trying
to figure out what software is in the EPROM's. There are two groups of
chips, one with 6 2708's and the other with 8, on a Godbout EconoROM board.
Anyway, hopefully THIS message makes it. I'm looking forward to getting to
know some of the folks here, and looking forward to getting to know my IMSAI
and 6800 better too!
Joel A. Weder
jweder(a)telusplanet.net
403-556-4020
On Jun 6, 19:34, ajp166 wrote:
> I have a 11/73 and several 11/23s (some with clock mods for speed)
> so I'm aware of what I said. MOST early 11/53 boxen actually had 11/23B
> cpu cards (M8189).
Allison, for once I feel you're wrong. An 11/53 is a distinct processor
released a few years after the 11/73 and 11/83, as a low-cost option for
office use. When it was announced (1987), it was as a J11 processor with
separate I&D space and RAM on the processor card -- which no 11/23 has. I
never heard of one having an 11/23 as shipped by DEC.
It's listed in the 1987 PDP-11 Systems Handbook. Maybe Megan could look it
up (I believe she has a copy?)?
--
Pete Peter Turnbull
Network Manager
University of York
Any chance that someone may have an DEC RV20 worm drive they would like to
part company with? I just received some carts with software I would like to
read. Also looking for a keyboard for a VAXmate.
Thanks,
Brian.
--
Brian Roth - System Administrator
www.webwirz.com - Old Computer Repository
Preoccupation is my main occupation.....
