test-drb March 2001

test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org

214 participants
552 discussions

by jerryjh＠imt.net

On 2001-03-05 classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org <Tony Duell> said: >>Museums should ideally have the at least a few of the best >>preserved specimens of chosen categories, especially the rarer >>categories... >Is it more important to preserve rare machines or 'important' >machines? ... >I can make arguements for either, BTW. Let's just say I'd be pleased to see nothing significant go to waste. I'm not an authority on distinctions, just a visitor offering my concern to preserve what's best for learning purposes. >>both working and nonworking condition: working order for >>preservation; nonworking for learning. Of course, any of us >>should be allowed to... >Have you got that the right way round? Alright. Both working and nonworking systems have their use. That's what I'd suggest. My apologies for not "writing straightly". >>have private collections for learning or whatever else -- but not >>the liberty to deliberately destroy history that could be >>beneficial to mankind. >Are you suggesting that scrap dealers should be turned into >criminals ? (I don't agree with this). No. My use of *deliberately* implies *knowingly*, which I would say certain individuals might do to hide the value of "old technology" in order to turn attention to some selfish, lucrative scheme. This is not on the same level as "scrap dealers", as you might suggest. I would like to emphasize that I value classic computer history more for its lessons than the methods of its material preservation. Of course, the former depends on the latter -- but you can surely appreciate my elevation of principle above all else. Jerry... on his IBM PC/AT 5170 Model 339 | My laptop computer's a ***** 9600kbps/30MB HD/512k RAM/8 MHz | Tandy TRS-80 Model 100 Net-Tamer V 1.11.2X - Registered

23 years, 9 months

HLL Computers

by xds_sigma7＠hotmail.com

The B5500 doesn't run Algol 60, technically speaking. It runs Burroughs Extended Algol, which is based on Algol 60. For example, BEA (cuz I don't wanna type out the whole name), doesn't include all of the characters used in Algol 60, it has a different replacement operator, uses a different symbol for exponents, and powers of ten in numbers are written out differently. Another major difference is that Algol 60 doesn't have reserved words, and BEA does. There are some other details too.. If anyone is wondering, I'm getting this from my "ALGOL Programming ...A Basic Approach" which was written by 2 guys from Burroughs and one from Marathon Oil, who was big into the B5000. Will J _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com

23 years, 9 months

HLL Computers

by fmc＠reanimators.org

"Lee Courtney" <leec(a)slip.net> wrote: > "Computers in the 1980s" by Turn (1974) also has a brief, but interesting, > take on HLL hardware. There are another couple of books I would recommend Scott Guthery track down: "Advances in Computer Architecture" by Glenford J. Myers. There are at least two editions of this book (both published by Wiley): (1st) 1978, ISBN 0-471-83475-4 (2nd) 1982, ISBN 0-471-07878-6 IIRC, between editions he had moved from IBM to Intel and the 2nd edition has an additional chapter on the IAPX 432. "High-Level Language Computer Architecture" edited by Yaohan Chu. Published by Academic Press, 1975, ISBN 0-12-174150-8. > Has the SYMBOL machine machine been mentioned? (There's one in on display at > the Computer Museum History Center in Mtn. View CA.). One, or part of one? I'm pretty sure that both of the above books include some discussion of the SYMBOL machine. Predictably, I don't have either at hand to look; they're both in storage and storage is a mess right now. -Frank McConnell

23 years, 9 months

HLL Computers

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

From: Mark Tapley <mtapley(a)swri.edu> > There's another category of machines like the "Basic stamp" that >have an HLL in firmware "on chip" (either in ROM on the CPU chip, or in >another chip on the same IC). From an architectural point of view, I think >this is a lot different from what you are talking about, but you may want >to make a list for that category as well, for completeness. I'll bet you'll >find some processors that are right on the edge between categories, too. Add to that... machines where the cpus had internal rom with... National NSC8073 with tinybasic on internal rom Intel 8052 (8051 serios with 8k basic). 8051 with Forth in internal rom An assortment of small handhelds with a chip containing basic Then there were the machines with internal rom or microcode that ran some hll... Didn't Wang have a small micro with basic on rom? Allison

23 years, 9 months

HLL Computers

by lcourtney＠mvista.com

> Original Message: > ----------------- > From: Frank McConnell fmc(a)reanimators.org > Date: 05 Mar 2001 23:17:34 -0800 > To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: HLL Computers > > There are another couple of books I would recommend Scott Guthery > track down: > > "High-Level Language Computer Architecture" edited by Yaohan Chu. > Published by Academic Press, 1975, ISBN 0-12-174150-8. Another good one. I'll check for references to SYMBOL in this book when I get home tonight. > > Has the SYMBOL machine machine been mentioned? (There's one > in on display at > > the Computer Museum History Center in Mtn. View CA.). > > One, or part of one? I believe TCMHC only has the CPU. Its the box on display between the PDP10 and the Meiko supercomputer. BTW, David Ditzel of Transmeta worked on SYMBOL (at Iowa?) and recently rediscovered the machine on display during a recent visit. When I was in college in the 75-79 timeframe HLL architectures were the subject of considerable interest and research (and I believe this was the case for the previous 20 years). I was originally drawn to working at HP by the work they had done providing microcode support for an incremental APL compiler on the HP3000 (which was the subject of a lawsuit HP lost before withdrawing the product, but that's another thread). I thought it was a fascinating field, but the tidal wave of RISC architectures in the early-80s I think pretty much killed off HLL architectures (which I believe was the right thing). Lee Courtney Engineering Manager Phone: (408) 328-9238 MontaVista Software, Inc. Fax: (408) 328-9204 1237 East Arques Avenue Web: www.hardhatlinux.com Sunnyvale, CA 94085 Email: lcourtney(a)mvista.com Check out the embedded Linux experts at http://www.hardhatlinux.com

23 years, 9 months

New here :-) (& OT :)

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

From: Iggy Drougge <optimus(a)canit.se> >anglophony, since they are archaic beyond reason. I wonder why there hasn't >been a revolution in America, isn't the people tired of using all that inch >and oz stuff? ;) Yep. - I own a toyota... metric tools. - I did many years ago work on british morotcycles decimal inches. - I have a full tool crib, fractional inches, however, drills are number, letter, fractional inch and decimal inch. The verniers and micrometers are in thousandths of an inch. - However, my us standard snow blower uses the US common 14mm spark plug. - I fly a plane and use knots not MPH or KPH. My altimiter is in inches but weather is in millibars. - I cook, grams, oz, drams, pinches, "abit of" and so on. An all I wanted to do was drill an eigth inch hole for a number six screw to mount the capacitor (condensor) in my 10m reciever. I ponder this over a cup of Coffee. ;) Allison

23 years, 9 months

HLL Computers

by lcourtney＠mvista.com

23 years, 9 months

Us vs. Museums

by mmcfadden＠cmh.edu

The artificially inflated valuation of a donation to a museum is exactly how many paintings ended up in museums. The IRS cracked down of paintings created to be donations for tax fraud purposes. The same scheme has been tried with, property, cars, clothing, furniture, horses, and boats. The main issue is FMV, fair market value. You can't claim it's worth $100,000 if nobody will pay that. It's especially difficult without comparable sales of the item to value your item. There have been cases of dealers trading items among themselves to establish an artificial market value. No money changed hands just paperwork. Mike mmcfadden(a)cmh.edu

23 years, 9 months

HLL Computers

by mtapley＠swri.edu

Scott, >I'm making a list of the processors and computers >that in one way or another tried to directly execute >a high-level programming language. Here's what I have >so far. ... There's another category of machines like the "Basic stamp" that have an HLL in firmware "on chip" (either in ROM on the CPU chip, or in another chip on the same IC). From an architectural point of view, I think this is a lot different from what you are talking about, but you may want to make a list for that category as well, for completeness. I'll bet you'll find some processors that are right on the edge between categories, too. - Mark

23 years, 9 months

HP 2392A Terminals free for pickup or cost of shipping

by mcguire＠neurotica.com

Hmm...the person at the contact number said this messages is *months* old, and those terminals are long gone. -Dave McGuire On December 13, Bill Dawson wrote: > HP 2392A Terminals free for pickup or cost of shipping, pickup > preferred. > > 7 are located in Philadelphia, PA and 7 are in Tampa, FL. All are still > operational and include the original boxes. > > Please contact Lisa Flores at Abtech Systems by phone or email to make > arrangements: > > (800)474-7397 (Carlsbad, CA) or lisax.flores(a)xabtechsys.com (remove the > x's) > > Arrangements should be made ASAP. There may be much more HP equipment > available in the future for free if this goes well. Abtech has HP and > Sun equipment, along with other things such as Netservers, PC's and > peripherals, etc. that are not worth shipping back to Carlsbad and may > become available to listmembers in the future. > > > Bill

23 years, 9 months

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test-drb March 2001