On December 15, Boatman on the River of Suck wrote:
> > > I know that a good percentage of you are skeptical. Every one of my
> > > games in my arcade collection had at least the CPU boardset in the
> > > dishwasher. Several others had every single board through the wash.
> > > All of them work, and did so before going into the dishwasher and
> > > immediately after drying. Others had the monitors powerwashed. I took
> > > an entire 11/780 out into my driveway and I powerwashed the chassis
> > > AND backplane!
> >
> > I thought we weren't supposed to use the dishwasher on anything with
> > capacitors.
>
> It's fine, as long as the capacitors aren't charged.
...and as long as they're not paper capacitors. Most paper
capacitors are dipped in wax, but that won't always make a perfect
waterproof seal.
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire
St. Petersburg, FL "Less talk. More synthohol." --Lt. Worf
>What are the hardest to find Classic Computers?
I would have to go for the Lisa, and the Mac TV. I see both on ebay from
time to time, but never at a price I personally can afford (but at
affordable "collector" prices, usually around $200 for a Mac TV).
I think the Mac TV gets special mention, because it is VERY hard to find
a properly complete one, one that has the black keyboard and mouse, and
even harder to find one with manuals and CDs (although a totally
complete, just shy the packing materials one just sold on ebay for a
little over $200 IIRC on the price). There were enough made and sold
commercially that it should be out of your restrictions (I remember them
being available new at the local Computer City when they came out).
And I might also include a TAM (20th Anniversaty Mac), but I haven't
searched enough to know for sure that they are hard to get (when I do
look, if they are there, they usually sell for $1500, which puts them WAY
out of my price range, so I don't look very often)
>Also not intended as the thrust of the topic:
> Systems you most of all want
Unfortuantly, all three of my mentions fall into this catagory... but
then, if they weren't hard for me to find, I would have one of each
already, and then I wouldn't want them... so I guess by default, the hard
to find are going to be the ones I most want.
Anything outside Mac stuff, I dont pay enough attention to to know if it
is hard to find (I can tell you a few things that AREN'T hard to find...
486's, 14" VGAs and inkjet printers out the ass in the local curbside
pickups)
-c
They generally go for fairly big bucks. I sold two of them (HP
88780B drives) about a year ago for around $350/ea. They're all
over...just not for free.
-Dave
On December 14, Christopher Smith wrote:
> Right. I know they exist... just can't find them. :)
>
> Regards,
>
> Chris
>
> Christopher Smith, Perl Developer
> Amdocs - Champaign, IL
>
> /usr/bin/perl -e '
> print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n");
> '
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Eric Dittman [mailto:dittman@dittman.net]
> > Sent: Friday, December 14, 2001 1:37 PM
> > To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org
> > Subject: Re: Hardest to Find Classic Computers (Was: RE: Way OT: Just
> > say
> >
> >
> > > Do peripherals count too? If so, try finding a 9-track
> > drive that doesn't
> > > take up as much room as your fridge. Any EDSI hardware and
> > controllers have
> > > been very elusive to me as well.
> >
> > Actually, there are some table-top 9-track drives. There is
> > a limit on how
> > small a 9-track drive can be since you have to accommodate
> > two large reels.
> >
> > In fact, next week I'm picking up a table-top 9-track SCSI
> > drive for $75.
>
--
Dave McGuire
St. Petersburg, FL "Less talk. More synthohol." --Lt. Worf
On December 14, Pat Finnegan wrote:
> I am pretty sure it runs on some IBM PPC proc... At least that's what I
> gathered when IBM sent some guy to give what amounted to a sales pitch to
> our LUG. Could be wrong, but I dont really think so. BTW I mean MODERN
> eg. zSeries, not old.
Umm, not as far as I'm aware, no. The S/390 is a mainframe
architecture, not a large microprocessor-based system. While I have a
lot of respect for PPC processors, they don't have quite *that* much
horsepower.
> Anyways, IBM did have their S/390 on a card that
> they sold with their P/390 'developer's systems' in the early 90s. I'd
> imagine those used a microprocessor...
I have one in front of me. It's not a PPC.
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire
St. Petersburg, FL "Less talk. More synthohol." --Lt. Worf
Hi,
I found this really interesting: The PDP-8 has no concept of a
stack. It does have sub-routines though. Instead of pushing the
instruction pointer onto a stack, it's being written at the
location to which the call is directed (first address of the
subroutine). Then a return is simply an indirect jump to that
first address of the subroutine.
This is hillarious! Wasn't the notion of a stack arond already
before 1965?
The coolest thing is that inspite of this "unique" way of handling
subroutines, the PDP-8 had a timesharing system TSS-8. I suppose
they could not share code segments then, so if three users were
doing FOCAL, they would have 3 instances of the FOCAL code in
memory (or swapping in and out to disk.) And all this at maximally
32 kB of memory! Amazing.
I just wonder how the kernel calls were handled. The kernel was
called "Monitor." That may be the revealing piece of it: perhaps
the Monitor was a monitor, so only one thread could ever execute
any of the monitor's code at the same time.
That raises a last question: what was first, the TSS-8 kernel
called "Monitor" or the operating system technical term "monitor"?
Dijkstra's classic semaphore paper was back in 1968, and my "new"
Introduction to Programming book is printed 1968 too. AFAIK
the monitor construct is younger than the semaphore, right? So,
could it be that the technical term "monitor" comes from taking the
functioning of the TSS-8 kernel as a paradigma?
fun stuff, isn't it?
-Gunther
PS: I think one could emulate something like a stack on the
PDP-8 using the auto-increment registers in the PDP-8's zero
page. Of course it would work without them, but it may make
the one of the operations push or pop more efficient...
--
Gunther Schadow, M.D., Ph.D. gschadow(a)regenstrief.org
Medical Information Scientist Regenstrief Institute for Health Care
Adjunct Assistant Professor Indiana University School of Medicine
tel:1(317)630-7960 http://aurora.regenstrief.org
Serial terminals have worked with Linux for a few years now. Heck, in the
1.x days I was running serial terminals under Linux, and even using modems
and VT100 emulators on PC's on the other end.....
- Matt
>I believe Linux will now run with a serial terminal. NetBSD certainly
>does.
>
> > Thirdly, is there any good reason why you can't use a serial terminal
> > linked to an RS232 port any more? In which case the PC wouldn't need a
> > video card at all, unless it needs one to pass the POST (and you don't
> > know how to patch the bios to get round it).
>
>This should work just fine. You just have to compile the kernel with the
>necessary options.
>
>Peace... Sridhar
Matthew Sell
Programmer
On Time Support, Inc.
www.ontimesupport.com
(281) 296-6066
Join the Metrology Software discussion group METLIST!
http://www.ontimesupport.com/cgi-bin/mojo/mojo.cgi
"One World, One Web, One Program" - Microsoft Promotional Ad
"Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Fuhrer" - Adolf Hitler
Many thanks for this tagline to a fellow RGVAC'er...
> The blade that's keeping you from fitting it into a USA 15A
> 120V outlet
> should be the neutral.
Sorry I wasn't clear, my custom-made A/C line has a
box with two duplex outlets that match the line cord.
And thanks to everyone who chimed in, it turns
out my cord is wired correctly to the PSU.
And the line tester from Radio Shack says the line
is correct and not reversed and properly grounded.
Gott be something else...
-dq
>Just because you cannot afford them does not mean they are hard to find.
>The fact that you do see them on eBay from time to time actually means
>that they are more common than you think. Lisa's are not at all "rare",
>despite what the geographically challenged claim. However, it depends on
>what model of Lisa we are talking about.
Around here (NJ) Lisa's (any model) and Mac TV's are rare, at least as
far as what I have found... and that goes beyond eBay (ebay isn't
regional, local used shops, garage sales, junk yards, newspaper ads, flea
markets... those are all regional).
It is quite possible these things are readily available else where in the
world, but here, they are not. If there is some magic land where these
things go apleanty, PLEASE fill me in, as I would love to get them for
shipping cost or just above... but I asked about that once before on this
list when I was told shortages of lisa's were a regional thing... and no
one told me where to get one, or offered me one... so I tend to think,
there is no land of pleanty outside of collector mythos.
As for affording them, that was just commented on because IIRC one of the
criteria was that they should be collector affordable. I myself can't
afford squat, but the prices I have seen them go for, when I have seen
them (which happens to ONLY be online stores/auctions... ebay included)
they are affordable for an average collector... I am just a very
destitute collector so I have always had to pass on them.
I am very sure that they are much more readily available than many other
systems (as evidenced by the fact that they show up at all on ebay), but
like I ended my first email with... outside of mac stuff, I really don't
pay attention, so I can't say what is rare. That basically means, my rare
statements were perspective of Mac's, and NOT of the entire computer
field.
-c
Hello,
This topic was rehashed not too long ago, but rather
than read 6 weeks worth of thread on it, let me star it
again.
I have a PSU, the input leads (part of the EMI filter
I think) are labeled L, G, and N. G is I am sure, the
ground.
Of N and L (beutral and low?), which goes to thewhite
wire, and which goes to the black wire?
The A/C cord is a 20amp type with the two blades at
90 degrees to each other as in "| -".
Thanks,
-doug q
