I'd like to create some archives of system diskettes for older machines,
cp/m machines that use 5 1/4" 96 tpi double sided diskettes and 8"
diskettes.
What is a good way to do that? I've looked into Teledisk but that
assumes that you can read the actual diskettes on a PC which I can't.
Any suggestions?
Thanks.
--
Dave Mabry dmabry(a)mich.com
Dossin Museum Underwater Research Team
NACD #2093
Hi all,
I am looking for the original Osborne 1 and Osborne Executive
documentation... any suggestions? A copy would be fine. A scanned copy
would be even better. Is there an online archive of scanned documentation
somewhere? Thanks.
Josh
I didn't even realize it was past 12:00 until just now...... I'm busy
wrapping presents :-)
I've been working on a 486 for the last few days. I'm trying to get a
few stagnant projects going. Dumb things freezes on me..... will write
more later.
Finally snowed too!
Merry Christmas!!
Chad Fernandez
Michigan, USA
I have a AMD5x86/133 that runs linux Xwin rather well in 16mb
ram. I've run it on 486dx66 with 20mb ram and it's decent.
Allison
-----Original Message-----
From: Tothwolf <tothwolf(a)concentric.net>
To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org>
Date: Tuesday, December 25, 2001 7:54 PM
Subject: Re: Merry Christmas Everyone!!!!
>On Tue, 25 Dec 2001, Ben Franchuk wrote:
>
>> A 486 makes a nice Linux box providing you don't run X-windows.
>
>A 486 with 32-64mb of ram will run X fine, but it's still a little slow
>for cpu intensive processes (netscape, mozilla, gimp...). These machines
>also make excellent X terminals, provided they have a fairly decent
video
>card. My personal favorites tend to be old Diamond Viper and Stealth VLB
>cards with 2mb of video ram.
>
>-Toth
>
>The time base generator boards are very simple, that accept a 3-bit >value
>and will set their I/O flag bit after the selected time period, >which can
>be 10 sec, 1 sec, 0.1 sec, 0.01 sec, etc.
>
>Usually the TBG board is installed in slot 10.
I found the manuals for the TBG on www.spies.com/~AEK . Haven't messed with
that board yet but, shouldn't have too much trouble using it.
>You also have a HS Terminal board. Excellent, these are slightly >rare.
>This is a serial port board that will run up to a maximm of >2400 baud, and
>it is compatible with HP Basic. Normally these use a >current loop
>interface, but a simple modification to the I/O cable >(inside the hood
>that connects to the PCB) will give you RS-232 I/O. >I can supply all the
>info you need for this.
As with the TBG board, I found the manuals for this board. There are several
code samples with the manuals and on Jeff's site but, so far I can't get it
to work. I didn't realize the cable had to be changed for RS232. If you have
the pin outs, that'd be cool.
I don't have the code in front of me but, unless I'm mistaken, it just
continously loops when checking the status. Not sure if this could be caused
by the cabling differences or not.
...
SFS 10
JMP *-1
...
NOTE: This is the only I/O card in the box so, I assumed it had to go in
slot "10".
If you can provide a short routine to send a single character to the
console, that'd eliminate one of the variables (me).
>Oh yes, your going to have to use a terminal with 2400 baud, 7 data >
> >bits, space parity, and 2 stop bits. Hyperterminal works just fine >for
>this.
No problem. Got plenty of dumb terminals laying around.
>The microcircuit interface boards are very valuable. You will want >to use
>one of these as your reader-emulator interface. I'll need to >know if they
>are '+ True' or 'GND true' boards, the differance being >true or inverting
>cable drivers.
We'll get to that a little later :-)
>As for the 55613 GMR-1 board, I have no idea on this item. I'm >stumped,
>and thats not too easy. Its not listed in my HP interface >manuals.
>(to test a HP 1000 CPU, set the A register to 100000 octal, set the P
> >register to 000000 and open the front panel. Switch the Lock/Operate
> >switch to Lock, then press
Was able to locate the DOCS for the ROM on the /~AEK/ site and ran the
diagnostics (as indicated above). Everything checks out OK.
>The Natel 2101 R/D converter also stumps me, is this a third party >I/O
>board?
>From the research I've done, it appears that "R/D Converter" indicates a
"Resolver to Data converter. It was probably used in a some kinda robotic or
motion controller application.
>Now then, a tape reader emulator...
>
>My emulator uses a PIC 16C65A to talk to the microcircuit interface >board,
>and a bank of EPROMs that hold images of the paper tapes. I >also have
>modes to read from a generic paper tape reader, or from an >application
>running on a PC (PC application not working yet).
>If all you need is to boot HP Basic, I can build you a simple >version of
>the emulator, or simply send you schematics and >pre-programmed PIC and
>EPROM chips, at your preferance.
Hmm... Once I get the system talking to a serial interface, I'll investigate
further. From what I understand, the TAPE READER protocol is pretty simple
so, I may be able to hack something together. I'll let you know when I get
this far.
>If these systems have the HP 7970E tape drive, thats a sturdy, >reliable
>tape drive that is not too hard to get running with simple >assembly
>language programs. I have one, and would reccomend it to >any HP
>collector. Nothing says vintage like spinning mag tape and >blinking
>lights!
I have several HP 7978 (HP-IB) tape drives that I use on my "classic" 3000s
and 9000 HP-UX boxes. Those are really sweet drives! Not sure if they're
compatible with the 1000 or not?
>Lastly, if you have any interest in assembly language programming on >your
>HP machine, I can email you a DOS executable version of the >original HP
>assembler.
Downloaded the assembler (hpasm.c) from Jeff's site. Had no problem
compiling or running it on my 9000. I've been using it while trying to get
the serial interface going.
Also downloaded the e21.c emulator but, wouldn't build on my box.
---
/usr/ccs/bin/ld: Unsatisfied symbols:
kbhit (code)
---
Really haven't had time to investigate.
Thanks again, SteveRob
_________________________________________________________________
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx
I have read it, it's on my bookshelf. PALs were still just
starting to be seriously used in the very late 70s with an
increase into the 80s, it was the cost vs board real estate
vs reliability issue. The testability/reliability issues took
a few years to gain engineers confidence.
Allison
-----Original Message-----
From: Pete Turnbull <pete(a)dunnington.u-net.com>
To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org>
Date: Tuesday, December 25, 2001 9:05 PM
Subject: Re: PALs (was Re: MITS 2SIO serial chip?)
>On Dec 25, 12:22, Ethan Dicks wrote:
>> --- ajp166 <ajp166(a)bellatlantic.net> wrote:
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: Ben Franchuk <bfranchuk(a)jetnet.ab.ca>
>> > >> Sure its trivial to do now but we were talking 1981 when PALS
were
>> > >> expensive.
>> >
>> It depends on what your limited resource is and how costly _that_ is.
>> ISTR PALs were $2-$10 each c. 1981-1982. If someone remembers
>differently,
>> please supply more accurage data. Yes, a single PAL cost more than
>several
>> TTL popcorn chips, but given how much you could fold into a single PAL
in
>> the way of I/O select logic (a common use on the board I first
>encountered
>> PALs on), it wasn't so expensive then.
>>
>> > Yes, they were compared to random logic, but if board space was
costly
>> > they were cheaper.
>>
>> Or if board space was a fixed resource, then it's doubly costly. The
>> oldest example I can cite from personal experience is the COMBOARD-I
>> to COMBOARD-II design. Both were early examples of 68000 designs (an
>> intellegent Unibus serial periperal)... one with SRAM (2114s) and TTL
>> logic, the other with DRAMs and PALs. One similarity - about 1.5 sq
ft.
>> of board space to cram in a CPU, RAM, support logic, a sync serial
port
>> (based on the COM5025) a parallel port and Unibus DMA logic.
>>
>> In 1981, our designers went with older tech, but the DMA engine was
>> horribly complicated from the standpoint of the 68000, but it was in
part
>> because there wasn't enough room on the board for a better design with
>> TTL. The second revision (c. 1983-1984) had more onboard I/O, and
>> implemented the DMA engine as a bank of shared memory to the 68000
(i.e.,
>> read/write to a certain range of memory from your code and it
>automatically
>> generates a Unibus DMA cycle - most cool). I don't know for a fact,
but
>> from what I remember about the designs, I don't think a shared-memory
DMA
>> engine would have fit on a Unibus board if it had been made out of
>popcorn
>> logic.
>>
>> > >I never heard about pal's until about 1990...
>> >
>> > PALS are 1970s technology, really old to some of us.
>>
>> I didn't see PALs in use until the early 1980s. Yes, I know they came
>> out in 1978, but products designed with them didn't hit right away.
>
>You should read Tracy Kidder's book, The Soul of a New Machine. It
>describes the design of the Eagle inside Data General from early 1978 to
>early 1980, and mentions PALs a lot.
>
>--
>Pete Peter Turnbull
> Network Manager
> University of York
On Dec 25, 12:22, Ethan Dicks wrote:
> --- ajp166 <ajp166(a)bellatlantic.net> wrote:
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Ben Franchuk <bfranchuk(a)jetnet.ab.ca>
> > >> Sure its trivial to do now but we were talking 1981 when PALS were
> > >> expensive.
> >
> It depends on what your limited resource is and how costly _that_ is.
> ISTR PALs were $2-$10 each c. 1981-1982. If someone remembers
differently,
> please supply more accurage data. Yes, a single PAL cost more than
several
> TTL popcorn chips, but given how much you could fold into a single PAL in
> the way of I/O select logic (a common use on the board I first
encountered
> PALs on), it wasn't so expensive then.
>
> > Yes, they were compared to random logic, but if board space was costly
> > they were cheaper.
>
> Or if board space was a fixed resource, then it's doubly costly. The
> oldest example I can cite from personal experience is the COMBOARD-I
> to COMBOARD-II design. Both were early examples of 68000 designs (an
> intellegent Unibus serial periperal)... one with SRAM (2114s) and TTL
> logic, the other with DRAMs and PALs. One similarity - about 1.5 sq ft.
> of board space to cram in a CPU, RAM, support logic, a sync serial port
> (based on the COM5025) a parallel port and Unibus DMA logic.
>
> In 1981, our designers went with older tech, but the DMA engine was
> horribly complicated from the standpoint of the 68000, but it was in part
> because there wasn't enough room on the board for a better design with
> TTL. The second revision (c. 1983-1984) had more onboard I/O, and
> implemented the DMA engine as a bank of shared memory to the 68000 (i.e.,
> read/write to a certain range of memory from your code and it
automatically
> generates a Unibus DMA cycle - most cool). I don't know for a fact, but
> from what I remember about the designs, I don't think a shared-memory DMA
> engine would have fit on a Unibus board if it had been made out of
popcorn
> logic.
>
> > >I never heard about pal's until about 1990...
> >
> > PALS are 1970s technology, really old to some of us.
>
> I didn't see PALs in use until the early 1980s. Yes, I know they came
> out in 1978, but products designed with them didn't hit right away.
You should read Tracy Kidder's book, The Soul of a New Machine. It
describes the design of the Eagle inside Data General from early 1978 to
early 1980, and mentions PALs a lot.
--
Pete Peter Turnbull
Network Manager
University of York
On December 21, Tony Duell wrote:
> > Today I stopped at a thrift and found a Blue/White metal device made by
> > ISD and can't really figure it out. It has a place burn a chip and the
> > one in it is ISD 1016 AP; a four inch speaker at the top and on the
>
> IIRC the ISD... chips were non-volatile, speech-quality audio storage
> devices. Not digitised speech, they used different charge levels in
> E2PROM-like cells to store analogue qunatities.
I've used these chips in a few projects recently. They work very well
and are easy to interface to PIC microcontrollers.
Definitely neat stuff. I'm surprised they were able to get any sort
of amplitude range from those nonvolatile cells, but they seem to have
perfected it.
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire
St. Petersburg, FL "Less talk. More synthohol." --Lt. Worf
On December 17, UberTechnoid wrote:
> My Sparcstation 4/330 has a bank of ten (or so) red leds in a row. These
> light in varios patterns to indicate which self test is being conducted at
> power on. After this, the leds 'race' back and forth faster or slower
> depending on the CPU load. Unfortunately, this cool load meter doesn't work
> in netbsd or openbsd, only in Solaris.
>
> My Vaxstation 4000/60 has an 8 (or so) red led that also posts codes at
> power on but nothing else in either vms or in netbsd.
>
> I recompiled the netbsd 1.5.2 kernel to enable the led on the Sparc.....and
> nothing still.
>
> Why on earth would Sun put a cool set of leds UNDERNEATH the cover? I mean,
> you might as well put it out there.
The "LEDs on the spine of the board" design goes back to the earlier
rackmount chassis, in which one could walk behind the racks and see
the LEDs.
The NetBSD LED support isn't for those LEDs, if memory serves...I
believe it's only for the front panel LED on the SPARCstations, which
is also controlled by software.
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire
St. Petersburg, FL "Less talk. More synthohol." --Lt. Worf
On December 20, John Lawson wrote:
> Just a quick (dumb) question: is this 'tinning' silver? Or Green? In
> other words, has the solder itself actually flaked off the trace (meaning
> it never bonded in the first place) or has the 'paint' coating called the
> solder mask, which is usually green, come off, revealing the trace beneath
> it? This very common, and Ethan is right, it should be carefully re-tinned
> to avoid long-term corrosion.
I have a bottle of this really neat stuff that I bought at Active
Electronics when I lived in Maryland. It's a clear liquid that, when
brushed or poured over copper, deposits a layer of silvery metal (tin
I assume) on the surface of the copper...nearly instantaneously. It
just seems to plate out of solution onto the copper. It's most
interesting to watch. It was sold with the printed circuit board
fabrication materials, obviously intended for post-etching tinning of
the remaining copper.
I don't quite recall what it was called; it's still packed up from
my move. But it was really neat stuff.
-Dave
PS - Happy holidays to all my fellow classiccmp'ers!! May your days
be filled with tons of good food and your nights be filled with
blinkenlights and elegant non-x86 instruction sets.
--
Dave McGuire
St. Petersburg, FL "Less talk. More synthohol." --Lt. Worf
