test-drb July 2000

test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org

155 participants
521 discussions

It's been awhile (hi, new stuff, help, apologies, etc...)

by mtapley＠swri.edu

Mike, >I won a lot at the auction for $15. Under the pile was a 1988 NeXT Cube = >(fist year of production after six years of umm, development), matching = >NeXT laser printer, and keyboard, and mouse. Trading the rest of the = >cart off got me also a 21" radius monster for free that I niavely hoped = >I'd be able to use with the Cube. Cha-ching! Nice score. >I rushed home with my new MegaPixel, fondiling it along the way, and = >immediately hooked everyting up. Power! ...Well, it boots. I get to = >the NeXT rom monitor ver 1 rel 46 and can exercise the machine from = >there. It doesn't have the floptical in it and a 'b sd' boot command = >returns a read capacity error on the scsi hard disk. With the rom = >monitor I can boot to an ethernet attress or scsi target. Is there = >anyway I can get a disk image of ole NeXTStep on a compatible scsi drive = >and can I use something like an Apple scsi CD-ROM with it? You can use an Apple CD-ROM, my cube works fine with an Apple 300 external. It's possible... Right now my optical is intermittent (just needs cleaning, I hope?) but once I get it cleaned I have: - Optical disk which says NeXTStep 1.0 on the package. I haven't tried booting this disk, so I can't promise that's really what's in it. - 380 M original Maxtor hard drive from my cube. That's now out of the cube to make room for a floppy + 3.5" 540M hard drive combo in a custom bracket. (which hard drive is also getting a wee bit flaky, I think.) I've backed up the 380M drive to optical, so what I could do when I take the system home to work on it is boot the NS 1.0 optical, build the 380M hard drive from the optical, and ship you the 380M drive. It should be bootable in that configuration. (I'd take as an even trade a known-good 3.5" SCSI drive with capacity greater than 540 Meg, which I'd then use to swap for my flaky drive, but that may not be a good trade for you. Or you could just agree to keep html out of your posts :-) . ) I won't be able to work on it until next weekend at least, though. Sorry about that. Alternately, hit http://til.info.apple.com/techinfo.nsf/artnum/n70038 and surf from there; Apple was upgrading for free to NS 3.3 for any existing machine. (I'd do this anyway if I were you, just to get a current copy of the OS, whether you want to keep the machine original or not.) You'll get a CD. It is possible to load from CD, but I think you need either a floppy or an optical to start the boot process (but I'm not clear on that). There are then patches to put atop that...depends on whether you want original NeXTStep or current NeXTStep. Let me know... - Mark

24 years, 5 months

It's been awhile (hi, new stuff, help, apologies, etc...)

by dogas＠leading.net

Hi everyone! It's been a bit since I allowed myself the luxery of 'dropping in' I've missed you guys. I've been playing around lately with a pretty complete TRS-80 Model 1 setup( LNW EI, RS EI, Holmes EI (real cool), Plug&Power, LightPen, Voice Synth, Floppies, Exatrons, Plotter, Quick Printer, LinePirnters, Acoustic and dc modems, sans software) . Anyone have some trs-dos or newdos systems disks and software and I'm especially looking for the software driver to run the voice synthesizer. One day I'll find a Voxbox too. Also been tinkering with the RCA Cosmac Dev 4, what a cool machine. I also finally got the processor board I needed to get my PDP 11/05 running. Can someone help me out with a 'restoration checklist' for the machine? (no docs...cept' a 11x processor handbook) And of couse I was able to interleve in some classic computer hunting with the many temporary bouts of insanity and on a low budget I must brag. First, at a school sale, I picked up a Commodore PET 4008, and a PET 40032, and a TRS-80 Plotter 1 for $1 each. Then, a comrad going through spacial compression, ;), yielded 2 station-wagon fulls of stuff including a TRS-80 m1 monitor, 3 minidisks, a128k mac, 3 ][+'s, 15 ][e's, many ][ and /// monitors, many ][ drives, a Commodore 1581 floppy and light pen, two Adam floppys (one boxed), and more. He wouldn't take money. I had to fight being given money for the "work done cleaning." A Tandy 4D, one of the few RS computers through the 6000 that I was oddly missing. Then, found a great apple 2gs system with a Mac Crate card and 30mb harddrive with gsos 6 on it. It rocks! and cost $5 Then, found another Osborne 1 at a fleamarket. Heh, when I opened the keyboard lid, water drained out. Lets say that negotations began then. ;) At that same fleamarket I also found the oldest Commodore that I now own for $5. It's a logo'd model 202 electromachicanical adding machine that's beautiful and works. A Tek 464 Storage Scope for $9. And then the sequence began that would put some wood in the ole pants... I won a lot at the auction for $15. Under the pile was a 1988 NeXT Cube (fist year of production after six years of umm, development), matching NeXT laser printer, and keyboard, and mouse. Trading the rest of the cart off got me also a 21" radius monster for free that I niavely hoped I'd be able to use with the Cube. I got the Cube home and after first glance I realized that I wouldn't even be able to turn it on. I was missing the MegaPixel display. Mouse plugs into keyboard, keyboard plugs into monitor, monitor plugs into the Cube, Cube plugs into wall, funny bone's connected to the... Anyway, the power switch is on the keyboard. I coudn't even turn it on because of the missing monitor link. I thought that one was going to take a *long* while to find. I 'got a fix the only way I could' by reading "Steve Jobs: The NeXT Big Thing" by and recommend it. Early PARC and a little Apple is touched upon, and Jobs stewardship of NeXT and more is evaluated pretty openly. Anyway, employing blue feather technologies, not the company, guess what, the MegaPixel display showed up the *next time* at the same auction. Major probability earthquake! This time though, someone else was intereted in something else on the cart (all junk) and it took $40 to win it. Damn! Auction dynamics in action, At other times it would have been $5. But the other bidder was known to 'just sit' on purchases and desperate situations call for desperate measures. I marginalized $20 and scored! I rushed home with my new MegaPixel, fondiling it along the way, and immediately hooked everyting up. Power! ...Well, it boots. I get to the NeXT rom monitor ver 1 rel 46 and can exercise the machine from there. It doesn't have the floptical in it and a 'b sd' boot command returns a read capacity error on the scsi hard disk. With the rom monitor I can boot to an ethernet attress or scsi target. Is there anyway I can get a disk image of ole NeXTStep on a compatible scsi drive and can I use something like an Apple scsi CD-ROM with it? That's all of it for the 'new stuff'' section, I think I also owe some people documentation (Allison and Doug) and will get those copies out early next week. I'm very sorry it is taking so long Also been trying to organize the collection, an inhuman feat. One of my Mt. Everests, among many. Joe, where are ya buddy? I'd have been down there earlier but my car's been acting up. D'oh. Howzit going? And, should anyone find themselves in or going to Jacksonville FL, drop me a note for a little north Florida VCFing. Cheers - Mike: dogas(a)leading.net

24 years, 5 months

The Apple ][c+ lives!

by agraham＠ccat.co.uk

Yes folks, my little apple is happy again after I replaced the blown fuse with a new carrier (in case of accidents) and a new fuse. Of course, she's kicking out a 60hz video signal so I can't really use the display, but I did get a 'no boot disk found on line' prompt with no obvious burning smell. And the floppy drive mechanism works too - must've been Apple's first dalliance with mechanised eject, er, mechanisms. Lisa and HP monitor tonight so cross your fingers :) cheers -- Adrian Graham MCSE/ASE/MCP C CAT Limited http://www.ccat.co.uk (work) http://www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk (home) http://www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk (80's computer collection) "In the pub already" - Mark Radcliffe

24 years, 5 months

Repair or Replace? [Was: Repairing Timex]

by agraham＠ccat.co.uk

Tony didst spake: > the Xcellite tools are available from RS components, etc. Not any more they're not; well according to the web anyway. The dead-tree edition of the march-august catalogue only has Xcelite drivers and nut spinners, not TORX tools. However, RS DO do a extra long T15 driver that can be used in 'maintenance and servicing of computer systems, especially Macintosh' so I'll need one of those then :) 6 english pounds to you, squire. cheers

24 years, 5 months

Repair or Replace? [Was: Repairing Timex]

by agraham＠ccat.co.uk

> Basically they will tell you if a given point is 'high' > (above a certain > threshold voltage), 'low' (below a different threshold voltage), > illegal/floating (between the 2 thresholds). They also indicate if a > point is changing state ('clocking'), or if there's a narrow > pulse on a particular point. Right, so I need to know which pins of various chips do what then. Dammit - that's more info than I have time to find ATM. Pity there isn't a 'Logic Probing for Dummies' book :o) Once the museum room's finished and I get a proper work area I can maybe kick back and start getting down to that sort of level. > The cheaper ones have fixed thresholds for TTL chips (which > is all you > really need) and maybe 4000-series CMOS. More advanced (and > expensive!) Maplins appear to do 2, one just over a tenner (ukp10) and the other at ukp17. > Now, as to how it's used. You can use it to find a stuck (or > not driven > at all) line on a data or address bus. To check if buffer > chips are being > enabled. To see if the output of a gate is stuck high or low, > and what > the inputs are doing. To see if a CPU is getting a clock signal, etc. Definitely too much info I need to learn for now I think.... > If you want to preserve both the board and the chip, then > first suck off > the solder with a temperature-controlled iron (you should > really be using > one of these for all work...) and a solder sucker. If a hole My gas one is temperature controlled, plus our erstwhile engineer down in head office is retiring, so I might be able to buy some of their test kit off them since he was the last one who could do those sorts of repairs. An entire electronic workshop will be vacant!

24 years, 5 months

While we're talking about Lisas

by agraham＠ccat.co.uk

> I wish this list had been around when I started with classic > computers some 14 years ago. Back then there were few collectors, and I > had to work a lot of stuff out for myself... You sound like the sort of bloke who's easily capable of doing that though. > In general testing with the unit powered up (assuming this > can be done > without causing further damage) is going to find the fault a lot more > quickly than testing individual components. It's also going to find > thermal problems that only occur when the unit is warm, or components > that fail under load, etc. I know, I'm just worried about being zapped. The Lisa in particular is difficult to work on without dismantling because of the positioning of the video card. At least it's the other side of the CRT from the high voltage stinger - they scare the crap out of me! > South-west London.... Bugger - too far south :) cheers

24 years, 5 months

Repair or Replace? [Was: Repairing Timex]

by agraham＠ccat.co.uk

> Incidentally, an analogue multimeter can be more use than a > digital one > for some work. It's a lot better at showing trends, > indicating when the > amplitude of a signal is peaking, etc. Accuracy is not that > important in > most repairs -- certainly +/-5% is easily good enough for most work. Yes, but the cheapie one I bought for work hasn't got the clearest readout on the planet :) And I don't think it survived a 1 foot drop onto a wooden floor despite being encased in a smart rubber coat! The one thing I've never been able to do is read voltages from one - I can see that my transformer is putting out *a* voltage but can't deduce from the readout *what* voltage. Inexperience showing thru there. It's like the difference between analogue and digital watches I suppose.

24 years, 5 months

Repair or Replace? [Was: Repairing Timex]

by allisonp＠world.std.com

>I'll agree with that. The instrument I use the most is (obviously) a >multimeter -- in my case an old analogue one. One day I must get a Fluke Got a few of those, my favorite is an Eico circuit tester/transistor tester I built in my teens. I like it as there are no diodes or other rectifier devices and it's stable in strong RF fields. I also use a Triplite 630 pocket meter (analog). The fluke is a M12, well made, rugged holds calibration well. I also have a weston, a digital volt meter that is probe shaped (NLS) and an old tandy DMM I got back in 74. >comes a logic probe. For a long time I used a cheap Tandy one, then I >upgraded to the LogicDart. And third on the list comes a bench PSU. Mine Wish I had a Dart. I do have several I've made for my own use. >is a 30V 8A Velleman kit that works very well. It's a simple design All my bench PSUs are home made or resurected and modified H744 PSUs. >Ditto. I've found a little handheld 'scope (only 5MHz on repetitive >waveforms, 500kHz single-shot) is very useful for checking for PSU Old faithful is a NLS M15 I got in 74, been through a few sets of gell cells. Another is a B&K 2120, at 379$(US) it's an honest 20mhz triggered sweep scope, small too for the 5" screen. I recently got a heath IO 10D-31 5mhz triggered also, replaced a few bad fets and dialed it in and it's a fair scope. >the other instruments I've mentioned. Other stuff (counters, sig-gen, LCR >meter, etc) is very nice to have, and I'm sure it's saved me a lot of >time, but I think I could work without it if I had to. I have them and use them, I do/did a fair amount of RF. >As I said a few years back 'Your brain is the most important piece of >test gear that you have'. No instrument will find the fault for you -- >all instruments just provide information as to what's going on. You have >to know how to interpret the results. ;) Allison

24 years, 5 months

It's been awhile (hi, new stuff, help, apologies, etc...)

by gregorym＠cadvision.com

----Original Message----- From: Mike <dogas(a)leading.net> To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org> Date: Wednesday, July 19, 2000 8:13 AM Subject: It's been awhile (hi, new stuff, help, apologies, etc...) I rushed home with my new MegaPixel, fondiling it along the way, and immediately hooked everyting up. Power! ...Well, it boots. I get to the NeXT rom monitor ver 1 rel 46 and can exercise the machine from there. It doesn't have the floptical in it and a 'b sd' boot command returns a read capacity error on the scsi hard disk. With the rom monitor I can boot to an ethernet attress or scsi target. Is there anyway I can get a disk image of ole NeXTStep on a compatible scsi drive and can I use something like an Apple scsi CD-ROM with it? Hi Mike, I'd recommend contacting Deep Space Technologies (www.deepspacetech.com). They're a NeXT vendor of long standing, and they still sell NeXT hardware and parts. They sell hard drives formatted with NeXTstep as part of their systems; they'll probably be willing to unbundle one for you. Licensing isn't an issue, since Apple takes the very sensible position that possession of the hardware entitles you to run the OS. However, you got an exceptional deal on your NeXT, so you may pay as much for the drive and OS as you paid for the rest of the system. Almost any SCSI CD-ROM will work with a NeXT. I don't know if a Cube will boot from CD-ROM, (I never had a CD-ROM when I had my Cube), but if it will, you could get a copy of NeXTstep on CD (see next paragraph) and do an install to any SCSI drive you have lying around. You should also contact Apple and request the Year 2000 Upgrade/NeXTstep 3.3 upgrade from them. If you send in your machine's serial number, they'll send you free of charge a CD containing the last version of NeXTstep and some Y2K patches. I believe you can also request Openstep if you prefer that. You should also try and get an optical drive - a Cube just isn't complete without one. Brand new ones were selling on eBay for reasonable prices ($30-40 IIRC) 4-6 months ago. Enjoy your Cube! Mark (who has a mild case of seller's remorse after parting with his Cube a few months ago)

24 years, 5 months

Repair or Replace? [Was: Repairing Timex]

by agraham＠ccat.co.uk

Am I right in assuming DVM=digital voltmeter? a > -----Original Message----- > From: Douglas Quebbeman [mailto:dhquebbeman@theestopinalgroup.com] > Sent: 18 July 2000 13:34 > To: 'classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org' > Subject: RE: Repair or Replace? [Was: Repairing Timex] > > > > Surely any serious computer hobbyist, especially one who is a > > collector or preservationist, has at least the following: DVM, > > oscilloscope (even if just an old 5mHZ one to look for > things like PSU > > ripple/spikes), soldering iron, logic probe, assorted hand tools and > > perhaps a logic analyzer. These are not things that the > average hobbyist > > should be unlikely to have. > > I guess I got spoiled by working at the university and at a local > electronics trade school, and then later for a small embedded systems > firm. I almost always had a scope of someone else's available to use. > Now I don't, and I regret not picking up a dual-trace 15 or 20mHz > scope when I'd see one available, cheap, from time to time. > > My favorite was the Tektronix storage display scope. Now, I just > try to get by using a Rat Shack logic probe and a DVM. Plenty of > soldering irons (one Ungar, one generic one-piece, one Wahl), and > various hand tools. A manual wire-wrap pen somewhere. A CSC bread- > board. A fair selection of components, new and used. > > -dq >

24 years, 5 months

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test-drb July 2000