test-drb June 2000

test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org

160 participants
580 discussions

Archives of OS/360-ish public domain software?

by CLASSICCMP＠trailing-edge.com

>> I've asked around at a couple of prominent computer museums, but >> they all just shrug their shoulders when I ask them how they >> archive and index the original software, like they've never considered >> it to be important. I really feel like I'm talking to all the >> wrong curators, because they seem to have no interest in the subject >> at all. >Assumptions like these don't take into account lack of staff or lack of >funding for such projects. I'm sure that's a good part of it. Another part of it is that I get the sense that most of the curators don't trust anyone else with what software they do have (whether it be punched cards or paper tape) and they'd rather just let it sit and rot away rather than do something to archive it. I'm not exactly a newbie to the field of archiving software and data - for example, the DECUS PDP-10 and PDP-11 software collections I maintain represent several thousand input tapes and floppies covering the last five decades, and Mentec will shortly be issuing CD's containing DEC PDP-11 OS archives I've archived over the years - but I get the feeling that I'm not "a member of the club" when it comes to dealing with museums and other archives. Maybe my technical background (physics, math, and computers) puts me at a severe disadvantage compared to folks who are trained to be museum curators or librarians. Whatever the reason, so far most of my offers to volunteer my equipment and time to archive the old software is simply ignored. Sometimes I get a polite letter back, but never do I get the impression that there's some coherent plan to usefully archive the old software. In some cases I'm told that archiving is flat out impossible for technical reasons (I once had a heated debate with a SI curator who insisted that 8" floppies couldn't be read or written anymore.) Or maybe I feel too strongly that all the stuff should be archived, and my strong feelings immediately put me in the "crackpot" category as far as museum curators are concerned. -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927

24 years, 6 months

Choose Dumpster #1, Dumpster #2, Dumpster #3

by mmcfadden＠cmh.edu

For me something about dumpsters seems to have a siren call like mermaids luring ships on the rocks. My son laughs every time I'm driving down the street and all of a sudden announce, "is that a full dumpster over there?" My feeling is that when somebody puts stuff in the dumpster they are "saying it has no value", I just want to prove them wrong. Having the "eye" to find the value in the trash, to recognize "good stuff". I'm like an archeologist walking through an area looking at rocks hoping to find the fossil missing link. The auction location scenario is a contest to see who can discern the "true" value of stuff and convince everyone else to drop out. The vintage machine and software that may be for sale seem to be more of a "known" commodity. Maybe it's the adventure, the thrill of discovery, the agony of lifting trash to find the pearl. I haven't had a breakdown yet but it could be caused if I had to choose between 3 dumpsters being approached by a single trash truck. Wait a minute it could be worse, 3 dumpsters each being approached by a trash truck. Mike mmcfadden(a)cmh.edu

24 years, 6 months

Your dream computer room.

by allisonp＠world.std.com

From: Bill Sudbrink <bill(a)chipware.com> >spend some time with paper and crayon as a child designing the ideal >"fort"? What kind of computer shop would you build given sufficient >time/money/space? Wooha, now there a blue sky idea. Simple though, 1000sqft with net power drops from the ceiling, floor would not be raised but work benches for smaller systems plus a rolling work bench for doing repair work. One wall would be manuals and spares. Oh yes, Air conditioning for the bigger boxen and me too. Allison

24 years, 6 months

Price of our hobby

by allisonp＠world.std.com

From: r. 'bear' stricklin <red(a)bears.org> >I have to add my two cents to this. Yes, some companies will demand >degrees and expect to see a candidate with 100% conventional >background. In the tech sector, at least, these companies don't seem to be >in the norm and where they do exist, are the LEAST interesting companies >to work for. Over an extended period I encounterd a lot of old guard companies that fit that mold or worse have sterotypes on the brain. >Today I am 23 years old and have hit the top of my profession (UNIX >systems administration). In terms of technical knowledge, I outrank nearly It will make difference when your 47 and looking. >Not once has my lack of a degree affected my ability to find a job. In >fact, I am very up-front about my short-lived and extremely unglamourous >engagement at uni. With 30 years behind me and 6 major companies I can say at one time It didn't either for me. Then as athey say, I got old. >Yes, I am tooting my own horn here (quite loudly) but if I don't toot it, >I'm afraid the fact that a successful career can be built on things other >than advanced degrees may slip by unnoticed. Much truth to that, but some day it will come to you or someone with same expereince and he'll have the degree... >Will I go back to school? Yes. Will it be to get a technical degree? >Probably not. Divinity or theology are looking like likely candidates. Same here. I've visited from time to time for various courses but if I go for the degree electronics or computer will not be the focus either. Allison

24 years, 6 months

Minivac 601 documentation?

by Anthony.Eros＠compaq.com

Does anyone have any documentation for the Minivac 601? Is there anything on-line? I bought one via eBay (I thought $41 was a pretty reasonable price,) but it didn't come with any of the jumpers or books. When I was in high school, we had one, but it didn't work. It didn't have any documentation either.

24 years, 6 months

Time spent Looking VS time spent "Playing"

by allisonp＠world.std.com

>What do you do? How do you manage your "quality" time with your machines? >Do you feel guilty for neglecting that old (insert machine name here)? > >Francois Good point! I've generally stopped adding as I've reached space saturation and run out of possible time to operate the machines I dearly wanted. Yes, My old NS* is not getting enough time these days. Allison

24 years, 6 months

Is it time for an International Vintage Computer Association? Was: Yo

by jeff.kaneko＠juno.com

On Tue, 27 Jun 2000 09:48:53 -0700 Marvin <marvin(a)rain.org> writes: > Isn't it also odd how the people with these "deep pockets" also seem > to get > a lot accomplished? You might want to look at that correlation and > see what > it means. Okay, if you want to take that tack on the subject, let's go: So you're saying that only the rich and powerful are *worthy* of a such as noble endeavor such as ours? So your saying: "Sorry, if you can't pay, you don't deserve to play". What a crock of shit. Accomplish what!?! All it means to me is, is that some guys can delude themselves into thinking that if they pour money into something, they can call it a hobby. They haven't go it. The only way to really appreciate what we do here (well, what *I* do anyway) is to get your "hands dirty" with this stuff. Maybe you can pay someone to do the work for you, but you're kidding yourself. > See comment #1. Those "priviledged few" are generally the people > that get > things done and manage their resources wisely. Personally, I would > not want > someone without the ability to manage having any control over my > collection. Oh, okay, so you're saying that if we can't pay the increasing cost of admission, we're deadbeats, is that it?!?! Try to tell that to the retired folks who have fixed incomes. Try to tell that to schoolkids who now equate computer=Wintel, and don't know that something existed before. Yeah, we're going to pass this all on, right? Yeah, when we're all dead, and there no one around to tell the story . . . Now as a matter of fact, I don't give a rat's ass about your collection. What you do with it is *your* business. What I *do* care about though, are the poor stiffs who would like to pursue computing as a hobby, but will instead have to find something else to do, because the prices are out of sight. Jeff ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.

24 years, 6 months

OT: College

by PasserM＠umkc.edu

I'll be first in line to say college is a good thing, and worth the time, money, and effort expended to obtain a degree. Doing so right after high school is the path of least resistance--it _is_ harder when you're older (from experience). That said, any employer who ignores you because the time between your high school and college graduations is not the "standard interval" without so much as asking about it is doing him or herself (and his or her company) a disservice. There are pursuits other than rehab or prison that could have filled that time--such as having served in the Peace Corps, the military, or a real-world job--that might just have made a person who waited to go to college appreciate the opportunity laid before them. A person who did such a thing may well be a better candidate for it. While there is no shortage of the kind of people who will not take a second look at those whose resumes don't fit the mold, there are also plenty of others less closed minded who would likely be more satisfying to work for. --Mike

24 years, 6 months

Evil Lurker Won, Gets His Parts

by dhquebbeman＠theestopinalgroup.com

> It's true the DEC racks don't grow on trees, but their scrap value doesn't > pay for shipping and storage. Ask anybody who's got them. Likewise, the > PSU's cost a lot to move and store, but seldom bring benefit proportional to > the effort. > > What's wrong with letting this guy have what he wants? See, I'm not a DEC guy, so I really don't know how rare a MicroPDP-11/73 is (and how different they are or aren't >from a regular PDP-11). On the assumption that they don't make them anymore and thus are kinda rare, I thought it worthwhile to preserve/restore a nearly complete and almost operational system. And let me tell you how clean this thing was. Since the guy didn't want anything heavy, I picked up the TS05 tape drive out of the rack last night. The plexiglass tape door had not a scratch on it, nor did the rest of the unit. And no discoloration anywhere either. It had been used at the University of Louisville Medical School, and they took awesome care of it. I just thought it an ideal machine to save. After I looked at it even more carefully at home, I almost couldn't bring myself to remove the plexiglass door to replace the broken one on my Cipher F880. My Cipher isn't in nearly as good a shape. The two units aren't identical; while the TS05 is a Cipher F880, it doesn't support the 3200bpi density mine does. But I'll bet dollars to donuts that the mechanical assemblies are the same, so now I've got an excellent source of spares to keep my drive working. Now if i can just find a Prime 2301 Tape Controller... -doug q

24 years, 6 months

Evil Lurker Won, Gets His Parts

by dhquebbeman＠theestopinalgroup.com

> You do realize that PDP-11's are more than just cool toys don't you? There > are people/companies whose livelyhood depends on these systems and their > continueing to run. Nah, running a CAT scanner is just child's play. And AFAIC, I don't really want to play with a PDP-11; I just didn't want to see an otherwise complete system that was two components away from total restoration ripped to shreds! > The only thing I can see that the buyer did wrong was leaving the > powersupply! At least from what you've said I assume he left > it. If he went so far as to get the backplane he really should have > taken that. He's taking about a third, and leaving two thirds. The rack is staying behind too. But I guess DEC racks grow on trees. -dq

24 years, 6 months

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test-drb June 2000