test-drb May 2000

test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org

172 participants
541 discussions

by mmcfadden＠cmh.edu

Archiving data has as many definitions as there are people interested in it. At work we talk about archiving x-ray images on film for 7 years for adults and 25 years for children. Physical loss of the data is more of a problem than deterioration of the media. I have data on 12" optical packs that are 5 years old and there are conversion/data retrieval services that will retrieve my data but the cost is prohibitive. If I tell the powers in charge (PIC) that it will cost them $5 to retrieve an image that was created for $1 they think I am crazy. However if there is a lawyer making the request and the risk is $10,000,000 then the PIC are happy to pay. Currently we may have for a single patient's cardiac angiography study about 1,000 35mm images, about 1 GB. The system now uses CDROM-RW and puts the images all on 1 CD using JPEG compression, they swear it will last 25 years. I guess we will wait and see. The big issue for magnetic media archival is that it is an ongoing process with very few retrievals ever actually requested. If every 5 years I need to refresh my magnetic data then I have a reoccurring cost. This seems to be what many DP operations are planning. If I ask for lots of dollars for saving old data most organizations will laugh. I'll bet when reality or a lawsuit hits they will hope to beg forgiveness for loosing the data. Most media storage lifetimes are extrapolated from accelerated testing and assume optimal humidity and temperature. If you want proven lifetimes then there are only several known/proven methods. I know the government and the Mormons, two separate entities, are storing data etched on iridium substrates in human readable form. They talk about lifetimes of 1,000's of years. Other examples are stone tablets, photographic film, and paper. I think that we can eliminate stone tablets for storing magnetic data. Paper seems to be cumbersome and is fairly fragile. That leaves photographic methods. Photographic images from the Civil War still exist. Source code or HEX dumps on photographic media may be the best way. Maybe photographic film quality "paper tape" is the answer. The other solution may be photographic film floppy disks. I'd better get right off to my patent attorney and file. I've started babbling. Mike

24 years, 1 month

VAX-11? and some C64 stuff

by allisonp＠world.std.com

>On May 31, Jason McBrien wrote: >> First, there was the PDP/8 which came out in the sixties. It was a largish >> "Minicomputer" meaning it didn't fill a room like the IBM 360's, but you >> couldn't exactly toss it in a closet either. Then came the PDP/11, which was >> a bit smaller and 16-Bit in the seventies. Then came the VAX 11/750, >> Digital's first 32-Bit mainframe, in the late seventies/early eighties, and >> dominated the minicomputer market for quite a while. The first VAXes where >> large cabinet sized affairs, needing wacky 380V power mains and hard drives >> the size of a decent size car transmission. Then came the VAXStation 2000, >> which had almost all the power of a VAX 11/750 in a case the size of a >> largish shoebox. The home minicomputer was born. Through the eighties DEC >> still made the huge company-running VAX 7000's, 8000's, 9000's, and 10000's, >> but also made smaller workstation-style counterparts, the VAX 3100's, >> 4000's, MicroVAXes, VAXStations, and VAX-Servers. You can pick up a 3100 or >> 2000 for under $50 if you look hard. 4000's are nicer and run upwards $100. By 1971 a PDP-8 did fit nicely in a closet, small one at that. The VAX lineup was: 1978 1988 780----750---730---microvax-I---MicrovaxII---MV2000 None of the above require 380V 3phase your thinking of the 8650 and others. The 780 did require three phase but was not a bad deal and the 750 and 730 were 110V power. Allison

24 years, 1 month

Finds

by allisonp＠world.std.com

>On May 31, Zane H. Healy wrote: >> Of course since I have a 60Mhz RS/6000 on my desk at work and refuse to >> give it up for a state of the art single or dual processor PC my opinions >> of acceptable speed might be a little outside the norm :^) Can it connect to the net and run a real IP stack (of course!). Do it run the require apps? Good enough. The criteria is does it do what I require of it, adaquately fast, with acceptable conectivity/compatability? Then again I run DOS, NT(on 486s) and VMS. Allison

24 years, 1 month

VAX-11? and some C64 stuff

by rexstout＠uswest.net

What fun! I got a book called "VAX-11 Assembly Language Programming." What's a VAX-11? And I also ended up with yet another printer, an older wedge-shaped C-64 with a 1541 drive, and lots of programming stuff for the C64. HesMon, HesKit, Pascal, Forth, and a pile of assembly stuff. Eventually I get around to putting it all together and try to program it, but right now I don't have the room or the time(damn! college is hard...). -- /--------------------------------------------------\ | http://jrollins.tripod.com/ rexstout(a)uswest.net | | list admin for orham and ham-mac at www.qth.net | | KD7BCY pdxham at www.egroups.com | \--------------------------------------------------/

24 years, 1 month

VAX-11? and some C64 stuff

by mcguire＠neurotica.com

On May 31, healyzh(a)aracnet.com wrote: > > The good thing, though, about using "original" DEC monitors on > > machines like those is that you can get a wonderfully HUGE tube with a > > deliriously tight dot pitch and fabulous video quality for next to > > nothing because they're fixed-frequency. > > > > The PeeCee world's inability to develop video systems that don't > > require changing sync rates every time the wind blows has afforded the > > Real Workstation world a wonderful advantage...a plethora of gorgeous, > > huge monitors that can be had for a song. :-) > > BUT, if you're short on Desktop space, one really nice 21" multisync monitor > is your best friend. Well, that, X-Windows, and a digital KVM switch. > Remember all those beautiful big monitors take up a lot of space, generate a > lot of heat, and weigh a lot. True...which is why I run *one* machine with a framebuffer...the one I sit in front of. Heavy use of telnet and the DISPLAY environment variable are my friends. :-) I mean, realistically...I'm ONE person, I sit in ONE chair at a time, I drink from ONE can of Mountain Dew at a time...why do I need more than one video system at a time? -Dave McGuire

24 years, 1 month

OSI C4P MF floppy drive - troubleshooting

by PasserM＠umkc.edu

In addition to Mr. Willig's C1P (thanks!), I now have a C4P MF with which I am having floppy troubles. When I was a kid, I couldn't afford disk drives, so I'm not entirely sure what to do. - The machine works with a known good drive (an MPI from the C1P MF). However, it does not work with either of its own two drives. - All the power supplies are good--they all work with the known good C1P MF's drive. - When I answer "D" to "H/D/M?", the drive starts to step, then just stops. This happens with either drive (strapped to DS0), and with either just one or both drives connected. Are there some obvious things that I should try? I know I'm going to come off as a Philistine to some here, but are there any modern drives I can use (e.g. 360K double sided drives)? Does anyone know the secrets of the drive jumpers? (The C4P MF's drives have no indication of manufacturer anywhere visible.) I appreciate any help or advice you can share--thanks! --Michael Passer

24 years, 1 month

OT: Archiving data (LONG)

by CLASSICCMP＠trailing-edge.com

>> I think mike was talking about storing data on photographic film, like >> many of the microfiche data storage systems already in use, but intended >> for direct computer reading. Many films will resolve 100 line pairs >> per millimeter; this directly translates to about 3.2 MBytes per >> square inch. >Yes, but how long can we expect the film to last? Decades, if processed sloppily, or centuries, if processed archivally. The availability and maintainability of the readout systems becomes, IMHO, the deciding factor. If the data is stored as human-readable text this isn't so much a problem, until languages change or are forgotten at least. Tim.

24 years, 1 month

Microfische readers available

by ethan_dicks＠yahoo.com

With all this talk of archival media, I'm reminded that I have a couple of fische readers that I'd like move out (I aquired a double reader as an upgrade). They are a pair of Bell+Howell ABR-917s. I have copies of the operation manual to go with them. The copyright date is 1989. Any takers? Given the size and fragility, pick-ups are preferred over shipping. Shipping would be based on cost of packing materials and actual UPS charges (not MBX Etc) from Columbus, OH (43201). -ethan ===== Even though my old e-mail address is no longer going to vanish, please note my new public address: erd(a)iname.com The original webpage address is still going away. The permanent home is: http://penguincentral.com/ See http://ohio.voyager.net/ for details. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/

24 years, 1 month

IBM I/O Selectric/Posting Machine (Was RE: Atari 800 keyboards)

by dhquebbeman＠theestopinalgroup.com

> That's one of the PRACTICAL uses of a keyboard actuator! > Never mind trying to use a Selectric as a printer, the REAL use of a > Dynatyper or KGS-80 is for copying megabytes of text to exercise a > keyboard. God, the dynatyper, I remember that... On a related note, I have an old I/O Selectric, not the generalized model, but one that appears to have been a teller terminal of some kind. Perhaps it was even used by a vehicle license branch. Anyway, I never could get it to function with the IBM controller that came with it (which I think put out EBCDIC), but it also came with an aftermarket controller (which I think put out ASCII). If anyone has been searching high and low for one of these, I'd probably let go of it for the right price or trade. Shipping will be a killer, tho; it's very heavy. -doug q

24 years, 1 month

OT: Archiving data (LONG)

by dhquebbeman＠theestopinalgroup.com

> >Mylar punched paper tape has a VERY long lifetime and is even human > >readable (well sorta ;)). > > What ever happened to the really high density laser punched > mylar/paper > tape that was being talked about so much a few years ago? Much higher > density than magnetic tape, and very very long archival life. What about that optical tape they used in the movie "Brainstorm"??? Somehow, I always thought they'd bought a failed technology rather than just mock something up. If it wasn't real, it was still as cool as Hell! *fantasy mode off* -doug q

24 years, 1 month

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test-drb May 2000