When I worked in a UNIX shop, somebody told me that
wrinkled aluminum foil would work. I've never tried
this, but it seems plausible.
Jeff
On Mon, 10 Apr 2000 21:10:26 +0200 "Sipke de Wal" <sipke(a)wxs.nl> writes:
> On very white paper ! (Should be white to IR)
> (There is a lot of chalk on premium Inkjet
> paper that may do)
>
> On my Sun 3/80 mouspad the lines are 1 mm
> apart
> and 0.1 to 0.2 mm thick
>
> Sipke
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>> the same, with a few notable exceptions where the concept don't match
>> (MS-DOS for example does not have an IOBYTE).
>
>What of those things internal would you have had them leave out in order to
>be more different from CP/M, which was a VERY popular OS at the time,
>without removing its functionality. Since the features to which you refer
>are internal, I assume you have precice citations of common source code,
>right? They're certainly not obvious to me in my role as a fairly frequent
>user.
The features he refers to are the calls to the BDOS to do things like
File_OPEN,
FILE_CLOSE, FILE DELETE..... and so on.
>Since there is only one segment in CP/M, I guess you've got 'em there. Of
>course it really doesn't matter what the location is, does it? I guess any
>OS that load a register and then calls a specific location is a copy of
>CP/M, right?
Not really, CPM loaded to a specific segment but apps could use any and all
to the then 8086 1mb limit.
>> You can also terminate a program by calling location 0000h (again, in a
>> COM program). In CP/M this causes a warm reset (similar functionality).
>>
>It's like saying a FORD is a copy of a Dusenberg because they both use
>wheels.
This was a feature unique to CPM and DOS as many others loc(0) was
either reset (hard), ROM, unused or reserved.
>The mapping of one register set into the other is not an accident. Ask
>Intel about that! I'm told that CP/M-86 is considerably more than a
>translation of CP/M-80. Now you suggest that the roots of MS-DOS are
>entirely in CP/M? They may have common roots, as they reflect the then
CPM-86 was not entirely 8080 code lofted, that would never ru without help.
Also there was a loader change implemented, boot loads a file system aware
loader that finds cpm.sys. This was not the 8080 way.
As far as register usage, that is an artifact of PLM used to write the
V1.3/1.4
and later versions of CPM80. With that convention established it was kept
to keep applications that called the BDOS compatable.
>I've heard that, too. Does that mean that anyone who writes a program to
do
>what he's seen another program do is making a copy? You're not even sure
he
>actually saw and read the source code. How many programmers do you know
>who'd simply copy someone else's work in a case like this? Everybody wants
>to leave his own mark.
DOS 1.0 had COPYRIGHT Digital Research INC inside! There was a quiet
copyright battle that forced DOS 2.0 (buggiest thing in the world!). This
is not
fiction and it was documented.
>Buying something that shortens your burden is kind-of like buying an
>integrated circuit rather than making the thing yourself starting with a
>wheelbarrow of sand. The fact that Microsoft knew that IBM had gone to
>Kildall probably told them what they wanted was sort-f like CP/M.
They didn't care only that there would be apps for it to run like Visicalc!
Allison
On April 10, Hans Franke wrote:
> > I dunno, man...so they're not being *made* anymore...there's still a
> > huge market for them; I use my MP2000 every day. A bunch of people
> > at my office have PalmPilots...I *hate* those blased things...I don't
> > want to have to learn a second alphabet just because the PalmOS idiots
> > can't get character recognition right!
>
> :))
>
> Like in "I don't want to learn shell commands, just because they
> don't get their GUI working' ? :))
;)
> SCNR, but NOS compared to PalmOS is realy like Mac vs. Dos or
> better - A Star compared to Win 3.0.
Yup.
-Dave McGuire
On April 10, Stan Sieler wrote:
> An HP 9000/H20 is a 48 MHz PA-RISC system, also known as an 827.
> It's got a very small cache (64 KB data, 64 KB code).
>
> I'd guess it's valued in the $1000 to $2000 range. I picked up an E55 (twice
> as fast) for $400 in 1999...but that was a really good price.
>
> OTOH, if you want to part it out, I'd be interested in some of
> the memory for an HP 3000/927 I just got.
While we're on the topic...I recently picked up an HP9000 model I70
(dual 96Mhz PA-RISC processors) and it's got some sort of funky
multi-serial-port card (16 ports) in it that terminates in a huge D-shell
connector. From what little info I've been able to find online, it
seems that the console I/O goes to one of the serial lines on that
board. Alas, I don't have any cables/breakout boxes/etc to connect to
that board. Can someone here tell me what I need to find to talk to
the console of this box? Even some pinouts of that big connector
might help. Thanks!
-Dave McGuire
>There were daughterboards that fitted in place of the 80286 processor
>chip. They normally contained an 80386SX (16 bit data bus) or sometimes a
>486SLC-type thing (that could be convinced to use a 16 bit data bus
>without too much work) and a couple of PLDs to combine bus control
>signals, etc. Some of them even had a floating point chip on the board.
>
Ah - the "SX/Now!" from Kingston, for example. Installed a bunch of them.
When we had problems with them, the tended to be referred to as the "Sucks
Now!"... Before that, it was the "Excellerator" board, which used an ISA
card with essentially a complete 286 CPU, RAM, etc. and a DIP jumper which
plugged into the 8086 socket and made your PC into a screaming 16Mhz '286.
Installed a bunch of those, too. Many years ago, we went through a whole
upgrade cycle on all of the original PC machines our company had out in the
field; brought them into the office, installed an Excellerator and a 20MB
"Hard Card", and a <*gasp> 2400 baud modem!!
Bill Richman
http://incolor.inetnebr.com/bill_r
(Home of the COSMAC Elf
microcomputer simulator!)
I have no idea how old this is (so I dont know about the 10-year
rule), so if I'm mistaken, someone slap me.
Anyway, I picked this up tonight.. Anyone with any clue about HP
equipment know how much this is worth? Its big and hefty, currently
has HP-UX 11.0 loaded (altho I have full media and licenses for 10.20,
10.10, and 10.0). Its just TOO BIG to use as a home machine or server,
and I'm looking to either sell it, or swap it straight-out for a decently
configured 9000/712 or 9000/715-series desktop box. If anybody's
interested at all, let me know.
Thanks.
Bill
HP 9000/800 Model H20
Serial # 3537A86223
Product # A2366A
Internal SCSI Devices:
C2477SZ
serial # 3352E95739
A3087A
serial # 5075A81767
A3087A
serial # 5075A04158
Slot contents (in the back):
1: "8 CHAN SYNC MUX" (I dont have the cable or the "expander box" that goes
with this)
7/8: 28696-60001 HP-PB 16 Bit Differential SCSI
D13/B14: SCSI / CONSOLE / LAN
The system also has 2 64mb memory cards and 4 32mb memory cards installed,
for a grand total of 256mb RAM. It currently has HP-UX B.11.00 installed,
and has full licenses (on paper even) and CD-ROM media for HP-UX 10.0, 10.10,
and 10.20.
--
+--------------------+-------------------+
| Bill Bradford | Austin, Texas |
+--------------------+-------------------+
| mrbill(a)sunhelp.org | mrbill(a)mrbill.net |
+--------------------+-------------------+
I sent this to the list Saturday, but as far as I can tell it never
arrived. Figured I should resend it in case anyone is interested.
Zane
I stopped in to the Hillsboro Wacky Willies about an hour ago. They had a
HP 3000/925LX in a rack with I believe a 9-Track tape drive, a pallet of
terminals with I believe a small rack, and several boxes of MPE manuals.
I didn't have any time to ask about it, as I didn't even have time to stop
in and look :^) Plus I don't know how complete it might be or how much
they want for any of it. I also don't know if they had more to the system
or not. These days there is a large part of the store that customers can't
get into.
Zane
| Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator |
| healyzh(a)aracnet.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast |
| healyzh(a)holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector |
+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
| Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, |
| and Zane's Computer Museum. |
| http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ |
Well, I've decided to bite the bullet and try to install
OpenVMS 7.2 from the media kit I bought a few months ago
>from Montagar. I have this Vaxstation 4000/60; I exchanged
the RZ-24E it originally had by an ST31200N. I transferred
a TZ30 drive from a storage expansion box that was used in
a decstation 2100 to the right bay, and I got hold of a
512 bytes/sector DEC CDROM. The prospect of the installation
is somewhat scary forme since I know nothing about VMS, but
with the help of the OpenVMS installation guide I am
to the point where I restored the system save set to the
ST31200 (dka0) and booted off it. So far, the only choice
I have made is to select Decnet plus over Decnet phase IV,
as the installation instructions seemed to hint that it can work
over tcp/ip . When it is done extracting those packages, I
understand that it is going to ask me about passwords and
about SCSNODE and SCSSYSTEMID. Can someone explain
SCSSYSTEMID to me? I know nothing about OpenVMS or DECNET, but
I am hoping to eventually set up things to boot the uVax II
that I also have off the 4000/60; in addition, I'd like
to connect everything to the university's 10T and run
internet clients on the 4000/60 .
accepting to being clueless,
Carlos.
--
Carlos Murillo-Sanchez email: cem14(a)cornell.edu
428 Phillips Hall, Electrical Engineering Department
Cornell University, Ithaca, NY 14853
On April 10, Aaron Christopher Finney wrote:
> Basically, it's a 15mhz 68020 with 4megs ram (stock). It's got a mono
> frame buffer, scsi, ethernet built in. No power/space for internal storage
> devices. I've got one w/12megs ram and it makes a pretty good mono X
> terminal.
4mb is the max unless you have one of those nifty 3rd party memory
expansion daughterboards. I've got one or two of them somewhere if
anyone is really dying for one.
They're pretty swappy at 4mb.
> I think the last OS supported is SunOS 4.1.
4.1.1_U1
-Dave McGuire
Got one of these as a freebie when I picked up a
bunch of hardware I won (bought) at a university
auction.
Not being familiar with Sun products, can anyone
tell me which flavor(s) of unix I might be able
to load. Its currently a diskless pizza box, extra
large. What kind of performance can I expect from
this old thing... slow ?.... superslow.. ?
Any links to related Sun sites ........ etc..
Thanks Nick
