This comment (not specifically, but as it aligns with several others) serves
to show how easy it is to get out of touch with what's happening in the
institutions within which most of us spent 10-12 years of our lives.
It's true that some (few, however) teachers are present before the majority
of students are in the school. It's also true that some teachers remain
present after the students are dismissed at the end of the school day.
However, I'd add a couple of things to the already foul mix.
First of all, if my skills as an observer are not totally off, and I made
records of most of this, by the way, the ones who are present when the kids
show up are generally the same ones who are present after they've left. In
the three schools I observed, the faculty ranged in size between 105 and
198. In the cases where I made long-term records, the ones who were present
early were, with a couple of specific exceptions, the same ones as were
present late in the day, numbering typically 5 in the smallest school to 8
in the largest. In one high school, one of the teachers who stayed late was
married to a middle school teacher and she was early for the same reason
that he was late. They took one car and she dropped him off at the high
school just in time, but then arrived early. He stayed late because she
didn't get off until somewhat after he did, so he stayed late about the same
amount as she arrived early.
For a goodly period of time, I was in one school or another almost every
day, between my boys' fights and the various committee meetings, and trying
to teach teachers to do something beyond cute little calendars, etc, with
their computers. I had the advantage that I had no social bond to any of
the teachers, hence didn't have to let the fact that I liked one or another
and perhaps disliked yet another influence my assessment of their behavior
and performance.
If you ask anyone who was present, I was equally harsh with everyone,
pounding on the administrators to be more efficient at the same time that I
urged the teachers not to be so self-serving in their attitudes and, above
all, in their negotiations.
I admired the teachers who taught me along the way, and certainly harbor no
acrimony toward those who didn't. All in all, they were a tolerant and
longsuffering lot as well as being sufficiently devoted to turn many
rough-hewn youngsters into decent scholars. I remember many of my own
teachers fondly and greatly appreciate what they did to make it possible for
me to realize my current circumstances,
Those were not the teachers of today, however. It's true they now have
neither the respect nor the authority that was afforded their predecessors,
but they haven't the determination and self-respect that was common to the
teachers I remember. You needn't wander any further than the teachers'
lounge to learn that they regard their peers and sometimes even themselves
as relatively lazy and lacking in ambition. I didn't invent this view of
our current crop, either, by the way, as it is reflected in the news almost
daily.
In general it appears the Republicans see them as may become if their course
isn't altered, while the Democrats see them as the democrats wish they would
become.
I personally would support an effort to limit the length of time a teacher
can teach to five years at a stretch. After this time is up, I'd require
they go out into the world and do something else for five years, at the end
of which I'd see they were paid as much as they got for doing whatever they
were doing, so long as it wasn't teaching. After five years, do it again .
. . Each year, I'd also dismiss the bottom 10% based on performance, but
without prejudice, allowing them to take 5 years to do something else, and
replace them with new graduates. After five years they could reapply with
the assumption that they had learned something valuable in the interim.
I've heard stories about fellows like your EE/Music double major. I've
never seen one up close though. It's probably a California-ism. That place
is like another planet. I like to visit, but I wouldn't like to live
there.
Dick
-----Original Message-----
From: Aaron Christopher Finney <af-list(a)wfi-inc.com>
To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org>
Date: Friday, March 10, 2000 4:28 PM
Subject: Re: Re: languages (Teachers)
>This is total bullshit. Total. A very good, long-time friend of mine did 5
>years at University to come out with a dual EE/Music Comp. degree and
>walked into a $60k per year job with a cutting-edge tech company. He works
>8 hours a day, maybe 2 hours extra at home to straighten out paperwork.
>Maybe. In addition to his base salary, he receives stock options that just
>about double his yearly salary. He is 27 and owns a house in Huntington
>Beach, less than three blocks from the shore. He just returned from a
>three-week vacation in Italy, after being with the company for 4 years.
>
>Anyone who kills themselves in school to walk out into a $45k per year job
>that requires *140* hours per week is not intelligent. A person who does
>this today is either a moron or a massochist. If this is what you want for
>your children, that's up to you.
>
>This is my last post on the subject. I do wonder what really soured you on
>teachers, besides your claim to have studied them so closely in the work
>environment. To demean the entire teaching profession as it exists today
>in gross generalizations shows a lack of objectivity and portrays you as
>nothing but a bitter, old crank.
>
>To that end, I'm not sure what rubs me so raw about this...usually I can
>keep my big mouth shut. But listening to someone bash a group of people
>who are generally dedicated to their profession, and who put up with poor
>materials and low salaries, makes me sick.
>
>Aaron
>
>On Fri, 10 Mar 2000, Richard Erlacher wrote:
>
>> Allison, I believe you've been sold a bill of goods.
>>
>> First of all, look at what a teacher has to do for his/her education and
>> later for his/her salary as compared, say, to an engineering student.
>From
>> what I've observed myself, and even more so from what I hear from my
boys,
>> both in college, the workload in a typical week for an engineering
student
>> adds up to about what an education major does in a semester. Secondly,
he
>> doesn't have to look forward to those 7 20-hour-day work-weeks for the
next
>> ten years, and he knows that he needn't worry about being fired, laid
off,
>> or much of anything else that would rock the boat. Sure, he gets about
$45K
>> after ten years, rather than the 60-75K the engineer will get, but he
only
>> has to work a 6-hour day, and he only has to do that 183 days a year to
get
>> full salary and, ultimately a generous pension.
>>
>> Secondly, look at the quality of those individuals. These are people who
>> didn't do so well in high school, mainly due to lack of ambition and
>> diligence, didn't want to work too hard in college, and, of course,
couldn't
>> get into a good college. Fortunately, a good college isn't required. On
>> top of that, he's chosen a niche in which he only has to work a 6-hour
day,
>> and he only has to do that 183 days a year to get full salary and,
>> ultimately a generous pension.
>>
>> Of course he's not into it for the money. He doesn't want to work hard
>> enough to earn a lot of money.
>>
>> Dick
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: allisonp(a)world.std.com <allisonp(a)world.std.com>
>> To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org>
>> Date: Friday, March 10, 2000 1:38 PM
>> Subject: Re: Re: languages (Teachers)
>>
>>
>> >On Fri, 10 Mar 2000, George Rachor wrote:
>> >
>> >> >>> On Fri, 10 Mar 2000, sjm wrote:
>> >> >>>> lazy (everybody has a teacher horror story to tell). But those
who
>> >> >>>> stand out in my mind were the genuine heros. They were IN to
what
>> >> >>>> they did. They LOVED the kids. They latched on to us and
energized
>> >> >>>> us and really taught us. They made us solve problems, they made
us
>> >
>> >True.
>> >
>> >My father was a construction contractor and used to have several
teachers
>> >that worked for him during the busy summer months so they could make
>> >what my mother did as a LPN (2years college).
>> >
>> >When I left DEC I looked at teaching, I needed a masters in teaching
over
>> >any technical degrees and could expect to make 10-20thousand less a
year.
>> >It's pretty sad that that the average teacher has 4-6 years of college
>> >education and makes less than the average person with that kind of time
in
>> >a technical degreee.
>> >
>> >Allison
>> >
>> >
>>
>
--- Geoff Roberts <geoffrob(a)stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au> wrote:
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <Glenatacme(a)aol.com>
> To: <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org>
> Sent: Friday, March 10, 2000 3:51 PM
> Subject: Re: The C programming language
>
>
> > In a message dated 03/09/2000 3:19:11 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> > Hans.Franke(a)mch20.sbs.de writes:
> >
> > > I wouldn't consider C as anything 'grown'. maybe evolved in the
> > > sense of degeneration.
> >
> > Hey, Hans, I don't get this. C is the most versatile, flexible, and
> > portable language ever devised. It permits complete control of
> > hardware while at the same time allowing elegance in program design
> > and structure.
Allowing is the keyword here. I've seen some stuff that just took my
breath away and I've also seen stuff that made me retch.
> You forgot to add "and is perfectly comprehensible to anyone with long
> experience in assembly language or machine code."
It's been said that C has all the power of assembler with all the legibility
of assembler. If you've ever taken C and compiled it on a PDP-11 and looked
at the output, you'll quickly notice that many of the "features" of the
language translate to very few instructions - it's assembler shorthand,
essentially. This, to me, is a benfit, not a detriment, but I _like_
assembler, especially PDP-11 MACRO (and it's relatives like the MC68K)
> I don't have any Uni level CS under my belt, and that seems
> to be what's needed to comprehend it.
Rubbish. My first language was BASIC (like so many kids in the late 1970s),
followed quickly by 1802 and 6502 machine language (no compiler - stuff
entered in hex), then, about six years after I started programming, C. Working
at SRC in 1984, I saw that we had a UNIX machine nestled amongst the VAXen
running VMS. It was a VAX-11/750 w/2Mb RAM and two RK07 drives. I don't have
the drives (they were discarded in 1992), but I do have _that_ 11/750
(s/n BT000354) now upgraded to 8Mb w/SI9900, Fuji Eagle, etc. We swapped out
different sets of RK07 packs to run various Unices to conform to the
customer's configuration - 4.0BSD, 4.1BSD and SYSIII, IIRC. I still have the
VAX SYSIII tapes somewhere, but who knows if they are still legible after
all this time. Anyway, way back then, I'd heard about UNIX and decided I
wanted a piece of it. I got an account, borrowed a copy of the K&R book
and used it as a reference to write my first C program. It was an
abomination as far as style goes, but it did work - it converted a text table
of board handle numbers into a formatted picture of the contents of all of
our PDP-11 and VAXen, a job I'd do today in perl and probably HTML.
What I've found from personal experience is that to really _learn_ a
programming language, I need a project to keep me going past the learning
cliff. With 6502 assembler, it was hand-compiling Scott Adams' adventure
engine from BASIC (a story I've been happily able to share with him many
years later); with Java, it's my program to calculate sunset/sunrise charts
for my Antarctic web page; with Inform it was translating Zork from MDL. It
can be a monster project or a few dozen K of source, but the important part
is having a motivational goal to complete. I never learned a programming
language in school, only by rolling up my sleeves, going into larval mode
once again and banging out a fun project.
Just for the record, I am very fond of C. Yes, atrocities have been
committed in it, but it's right up there with perl and assembler as
my favorite tools to get the job done. Just be sure that you use the
right tool for the right job.
-ethan
=====
Even though my old e-mail address is no longer going to
vanish, please note my new public address: erd(a)iname.com
The original webpage address is still going away. The
permanent home is: http://penguincentral.com/
See http://ohio.voyager.net/ for details.
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.
http://im.yahoo.com
>I did the same thing, although I added a twist, I installed one of >these
>new (and dirt cheap) removable drive caddy things that you >mount an IDE
>drive inside of. I install software on a "master" disk, >which has a bulk
>copy program on it. Then I copy the entire drive >over to a built in drive
>on the same IDE cable. I have a switch on >the outside of the case that
>makes the internal drive a "master" or >slave (dpdt toggle that is wired
>with wire wrap wire to the four >pins constituting the jumper positions on
>the drive.
>
>Switch the internal drive back to "master" status and reboot. Makes >fixing
>things when my 4.5 yr old drags the entire desktop into the >recycle bin
>and flushes it a lot easier!
>
>--Chuck
Old Pentium class computers make excellent kids computers. But if you're
*really* on budget, an old Mac Plus or, if they don't like the Mac Plus'
lack of color graphics, a Mac LC would be perfect.
____________________________________________________________
David Vohs, Digital Archaeologist & Computer Historian.
Computer Collection:
"Triumph": Commodore 64C, 1802, 1541, FSD-1, GeoRAM 512, Okimate 20.
"Leela": Macintosh 128 (Plus upgrade), Nova SCSI HDD, Imagewriter II.
"Delorean": TI-99/4A.
"Monolith": Apple Macintosh Portable.
"Spectrum": Tandy Color Computer 3.
____________________________________________________________
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
I have just been given a Radio Shack TRS-80 pocket computer. It is in
'as new' condition, complete with manual and cassette interface. I
haven't had a chance to play with it yet, but am about to take it to bed
and have a look at it (Fiona will _love_ that!).
Are there many of these on the list? From a brief glance at the manual
it looks as if it is quite powerful for its size and era.
--
Regards
Pete
Hello port-vax,
So I've been looking for some way to contribute to the VAX port of NetBSD
without interfering with anyone else (and without incurring too much stress
as this is still just a hobby as yet). I decided I would try my hand at
adding support for the on-board DSSI interface on the VAX 4000/300 and the
MicroVAX/VAXServer 3400.
To further this end I have acquired the technical manuals on both CPUs
(KA640 and KA670) but while they describe the hardware for DSSI in great
detail (its very similar to SCSI btw) they both reference, but don't
include, the list of valid DSSI opcodes and their parameters!
Needless to say that makes it a bit difficult to implement. :-)
I'm looking for any documentation on the DSSI opcodes, or a reference to a
DEC EK-xxx document that documents same if you know of one. Can anyone help
out here?
On a related note, I was musing that as I attached disk and tape units I'd
call them 'dd0, dd1, ..., dt0, dt1 ...' (as in DSSI Disk 0, DSSI Tape 0,
etc) My /dev directory doesn't seem to have any devices by that name so
they would appear to be free for use, but you never know ...
--Chuck
<I suppose it depends on the assembly language. I can write PDP-11 assemble
<in C (knowing nearly exactly how the code generator works), but I can't
<write VAX assembler in C since there are VAX instructions that don't
<represent well. SPARC code is also easy to write C code with as there are
<few instructions.
An interesting contardiction as VAX is a extreme superset of PDP-11.
<The place where this really comes home is in one of my other hobbies where
<I write embedded robotics code in C for microprocessors like the 68HC11.
C is ok, but I've felt strongly for years it was better for tasks that
wanted you to be closer to the hardware. I like the control structures
of C. Pascal has been a favorite for years when I really don't want to
know the hardware. I prefer the data structures of Pascal.
Allison
<I have to question. I was once asked by a friend to
<help with some math homework. After looking over the
<questions, I found that I couldn't answer any of them.
<It wasn't that they were too hard, it was that they
<were too ambiguous. After some more talking with the
<student, I found that these were some of the "don't
<make the student feel bad by having the wrong answer"
<type questions. They were designed so that almost any
<answer could be considered correct.
I used to call them "Hobsons choice" If no, why. If Yes, Why.
Great for the debaters but a quandry for those that were more
interested in facts or testable theory. Your grade was based on
the why portion. Now who knows whats important.
Allison
<Allison, I believe you've been sold a bill of goods.
Looked for myself in my locale.
<First of all, look at what a teacher has to do for his/her education and
>>>>snipped/
I know far to many doing the real thing...
Like someone else said but I'll say differently: Like cream that rises to
the top, so does the scum. We see the exceptional asses and heros, the
average teacher is more in the world of trying not to be disenchanted with
to many rules, too few resources and an overabundance of students.
<didn't do so well in high school, mainly due to lack of ambition and
<diligence, didn't want to work too hard in college, and, of course, couldn'
<get into a good college. Fortunately, a good college isn't required. On
<top of that, he's chosen a niche in which he only has to work a 6-hour day
<and he only has to do that 183 days a year to get full salary and,
<ultimately a generous pension.
Well your experience is different. You wish to see the scum and you do,
those that do the job are missed and those that exceed the mark are
ignored.
I don't for one second believe that our educational system is up to stuff.
If anything I'd be glad to post my parting address to my HS class, it
wasn't complmetary to skills taught in 1971. The briefest words I'd still
say is I knew Algebra, trig and could write a term paper that would knock
your socks off but... income tax preparation and employment paperwork
(W4, resume, applications) were a mystery. I was trained to go to college.
Thankfully I persued both academic and vocational path in parallel.
Allison
In reverse order: This is a final reminder that the annual Mike & Key ARC
Electronics/Ham Radio/Computer swap meet takes place TOMORROW (Saturday the
11th) at the Western Washington Fairgrounds from 09:00 - 16:00 (most
sellers pack up and go shortly before or after 15:00).
Buyer admission is USD $6.00. Kids 12 or under are free with
parent/guardian/similar adult guidance figure. Parking is free.
If you get lost, just ask any local for directions to the 'Puyallup
Fairgrounds.' Pronunciation, BTW, is "Pew-All-Up" for the WA-state impaired.
;-)
Now, the update: As I usually do, I will be selling this year. However,
the list of stuff I posted that I was bringing earlier has changed as follows.
BOTH Exabyte 8500 drives have been sold to early interest. I still have
THREE EXB-8200 drives available. Also, the DSD's and other chassis I
mentioned have been spoken for (Eric Smith contacted me last week to
confirm his visit), and will not be showing up.
Still, I've got plenty of other bits and pieces, including a VT220 and KB
(works), a small UPS (600VA or so), and more bits and pieces than I care to
think about at the moment (no Q-bus boards, sorry).
I'll hope to see at least a couple of you there!
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Bruce Lane, Owner and head honcho, Blue Feather Technologies
http://www.bluefeathertech.com // E-mail: kyrrin(a)bluefeathertech.com
Amateur Radio: WD6EOS since Dec. '77
"Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our
own human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..."
For our list members on the northeastern coast, I present this as received
>from the NetBSD port-VAX mailing list...
-=-=-=-=- <snip> -=-=-=-=-
X-From_: port-vax-owner-kyrrin=bluefeathertech.com(a)netbsd.org Fri Mar 10
11:50:49 2000
X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 5.2
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 14:49:25 -0500
From: "Matt Dobush" <DOBUSM(a)torrington.com>
To: port-vax(a)netbsd.org
Subject: Free TU81 Plus 9 track tape drive !
Sender: port-vax-owner(a)netbsd.org
Delivered-To: port-vax(a)netbsd.org
I have a TU-81 tape drive that worked the last time I used it a few years ago.
It is free to a good home. Actually, free to anybody willing to come to my
work and pick it up !
No strings attached. I really don't want to get into shipping this sucker,
so you have to come to Northwestern Connecticut to pick it up. I can meet
after hours or on a weekend if needed.
Please E-Mail me directly with any questions or offers since I'm not a
regular subscriber to your list.
-Matt Dobush
Systems Administrator
dobusm(a)torrington.com
-=-=-=-=-=-=-
If interested, please contact Matt directly. Thanks!
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Bruce Lane, Owner and head honcho, Blue Feather Technologies
http://www.bluefeathertech.com // E-mail: kyrrin(a)bluefeathertech.com
Amateur Radio: WD6EOS since Dec. '77
"Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our
own human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..."
