By the way, I did some research about this site a while back... this guy
Turley is a controversial figure from the old Apple II community. He has a
history of grandiose claims (e.g. "I gave Apple the idea for the iMac
advertising theme") and has been frequently accused of commercial software
piracy & putting his name on code other people have written (e.g.
http://www.cyberstation.fr/~zardini/DrTom/). There is no evidence he
actually owns the Apple 1 pictured, he simply got the photos from a
potential seller.
As for the Apple 1 cases, apparently you could order a hand-made one-off
case from the Apple guys, but most people either just made a case themselves
or bought a case made for an ASCII keyboard and used that (see the BYTE ads
for Shugart floppies ca. 1978, they show a guy with a North Star Horizon
using a keyboard mounted in a case that looks just like the typical sort of
case people put Apple 1's into.
-----Original Message-----
From: Michael Maginnis [mailto:celt@chisp.net]
Sent: Thursday, June 24, 1999 4:43 AM
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
Subject: Re: 70's sheet metal cases
The case is actually wood, not sheet metal. IIRC, it was one of the
handmade Apples in Wozniak's garage (after the operation moved from
Job's bedroom in his parents' house).
Mike
Bill Sudbrink wrote:
>
> Did anyone else follow the link in the WIRED Apple 1 article?
> It goes here:
>
> http://www.grin.net/~cturley/gsezine/GS.WorldView/*APPLE.HISTORY/
>
> Does anyone know the origin of this case? The color and
> general style of the sheet metal look about right for some
> OSI boxes. It also has a SOL-ish quality.
>
> Were there one or two sheet metal shops doing the cases for
> most computers in the mid-to-late 70's?
>
> I've sent this question off to the ex-OSI engineer I know, but
> he will probably take a couple of weeks to respond.
>
> Bill Sudbrink
Have you contacted Todd Fisher at www.imsai.com? He might actually know
about this type of problem.
Dick
-----Original Message-----
From: Dwight Elvey <elvey(a)hal.com>
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
Date: Tuesday, June 29, 1999 1:19 PM
Subject: RE[2]: IMSAI 8080 (our show so far...)
>"Bill Sudbrink" <bill(a)chipware.com> wrote:
>> Ok. There is a 16 pin ribbon cable between
>> the front panel and the MPU-A card.
>
>Hi Bill
> I'm sure there is a scrambling of this connection
>someplace. This is the only place that can do the
>things you mentioned. The front panel is hard
>wired to the S-100 bus. This means that wires can't
>get mixed here. The data lines from the CPU board
>to the front panel can get swap around. Remember that the
>way the front panel does things is by jamming instructions
>and data directly onto the CPU's bus through the cable.
>The results are read from the S-100 bus. In other words,
>when you use a front panel switch, like examine, it
>forces a jump instruction into the CPU with
>the address you specify with the switches over the cable,
>in sequence. A real clever trick I'd say. You'll note that
>the C3 bit sequence still works if the data bits 7-0 are mirrored
>to 0-7. This is why the panel seems to do anything at all.
> If reversing the ribbon connector in the header doesn't
>work, try removing the socket from the CPU card or front
>panel and installing it on the other side of the PC
>board. I would suspect that this was an error in the construction
>of the front panel from day one. It is most likely the
>front panel that is backwards. Just flipping the IDC header
>on the cable won't mirror the wiring to the connector.
>Putting the socket on the other side of the board will
>mirror things.
> At worst, you'll have to hand wire the cable to make up for a
>non-standard connector but I'd think it was more likely
>just getting the header socket right at both ends. I don't
>have a schematic of the panel in front of me but it is a
>simple mapping problem.
>Dwight
>
So far, all of the power in my IMSAI checks out OK.
I've brought it up with the MPU-A installed and I
get flashing lights. Press the STOP switch and I
get solid lights. Now the weird part: When I
toggle the address switches and press EXAMINE,
here's what I get on the address lights:
Legend: O - light off
X - light on
- - switch off
^ - switch on
Lights OOOO OOOO OOOO OOOO
Switches ---- ---- ---- ----
Lights OOOO OOOO XOOO OOOO
Switches ---- ---- ---- ---^
Lights OOOO OOOO OXOO OOOO
Switches ---- ---- ---- --^-
Lights OOOO OOOO OOXO OOOO
Switches ---- ---- ---- -^--
Lights OOOO OOOO OOOX OOOO
Switches ---- ---- ---- ^---
Lights OOOO OOOO OOOO XOOO
Switches ---- ---- ---^ ----
Lights OOOO OOOO OOOO OXOO
Switches ---- ---- --^- ----
Lights OOOO OOOO OOOO OOXO
Switches ---- ---- -^-- ----
Lights OOOO OOOO OOOO OOOO
Switches ---- ---- ^--- ----
Lights XOOO OOOO OOOO OOOO
Switches ---- ---^ ---- ----
Lights OXOO OOOO OOOO OOOO
Switches ---- --^- ---- ----
Lights OOXO OOOO OOOO OOOO
Switches ---- -^-- ---- ----
Lights OOOX OOOO OOOO OOOO
Switches ---- ^--- ---- ----
Lights OOOO XOOO OOOO OOOO
Switches ---^ ---- ---- ----
Lights OOOO OXOO OOOO OOOO
Switches --^- ---- ---- ----
Lights OOOO OOXO OOOO OOOO
Switches -^-- ---- ---- ----
Lights OOOO OOOO OOOO OOOO
Switches ^--- ---- ---- ----
Lights XXXX XXXO XXXX XXXO
Switches ^^^^ ^^^^ ^^^^ ^^^^
If I hit EXAMINE NEXT from the above state,
I get:
Lights XXXX XXXO XXXX XXXX
And, if I hit EXAMINE NEXT again, I get:
Lights XXXX XXXX OOOO OOOO
So I think the lights are working. I think something
is wired strange in the panel? Are there Z80 mods I
should look for?
Thanks,
Bill
>>In a message dated 6/28/99 11:57:18 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
>>Philip.Belben(a)powertech.co.uk writes:
>>
>>> Greetings everyone on both lists:
>>
>>Will some kind denizen of this listserv please enlighten me concerning the
>>other list?
>>Am I missing half the fun???
>>
>>TIA
>>
>>Glen Goodwin
>>0/0
>
> Good question, looks like that was targeted at a
> 'p850ug-list(a)thingy.zetnet.co.uk' list also. So what is a 'p850ug'?
P850UG is the P850 User Group.
P850 is an early 1970s mini made by Phillips, one of which Tony Duell acquired
when at college, prompting him to found a computer preservation society, the
P850 User Group. I joined the following year.
Perhaps our founder should take up the story. I shall merely say that the
P850UG-list is not open to public subscription.
Philip.
Dear collecting brethren, after I asked the List for photographs
to be used in an article on collecting computers Joe Rigdon asked:
"You ARE planning on telling the dealers that antique computers aren't
worth bothering with and to promptly give them to their nearest Classic
Computer Collector aren't you?"
In the article I claim collecting computers is like collecting money -
you don't have to be a banker to collect money and so you don't
need to be a techie to collect computers. Then I warn would be
dealers that in fact computers are much to complex to handle
without a great deal of technical expertise.
As far as promoting the CCL, I do, but it is up to each collector to
work hard and diligently to create their own channels and sources,
and to buy and sell with honesty and integrity.
Happy collecting.
>Kevin,
>
> You ARE planning on telling the dealers that antique computers aren't
>worth bothering with and to promptly give them to their nearest Classic
>Computer Collector aren't you?
>
> Joe
>
>At 11:22 PM 6/26/99 -0400, you wrote:
>>Ladies and gentleman if you have your own photographs of a Poqet
>>or a Portfolio, a Hyperion, IMSAI, or of early word processing software
>>like Electric Pencil, Wordstar, Samna, Multimate, or scenes from
>>a Hamfest and Goodwill-type store that show vintage computer gear
>>please contact me privately. I have written an article on collecting
>>computers for Antique Trader and we need these photographs to
>>go with the article.
>>
>>You will receive the photograph credit, be mentioned in the caption,
>>and receive a copy of the issue the article appears in.
>>
>>Please contact me privately.
>>
>>Thank you.
>>----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>-------------------------------
>>Kevin Stumpf * Unusual systems * www.unusual.on.ca
>>+1.519.744.2900 * EST/EDT GMT - 5
>>
>>Collector - Commercial Mainframes & Minicomputers from
>> the 50s, 60s, & 70s and control panels and consoles.
>>
>>Author & Publisher - A Guide to Collecting Computers &
>>Computer Collectibles * ISBN 0-9684244-0-6
>>.
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------------------------------
Kevin Stumpf * Unusual systems * www.unusual.on.ca
+1.519.744.2900 * EST/EDT GMT - 5
Collector - Commercial Mainframes & Minicomputers from
the 50s, 60s, & 70s and control panels and consoles.
Author & Publisher - A Guide to Collecting Computers &
Computer Collectibles * ISBN 0-9684244-0-6
.
>> Runs AIX, based on the Power2 Processor (a PPC varient, or maybe it came
>> out before the PPC).
>
> Very similar, but the PowerPC has much of the good floating point
> hardware stripped out. Power2 has very good floating point performance -
> probably the best of any microprocessor ever made until very recently.
I'll second that. Not too long ago we were looking for a replacement for our
RS/6000 models 320 and 375. The only RS/6000 of a sesible size and price with
comparable floating point performance was the model 397. Why? It still used a
Power2SC processor. All the more modern ones use PPC and it slows, er, shows!
(we bought Sun in the end. With luck I'll get the 375 or both 320s. I don't
think I'll get all 3 machines :-( )
Philip
--- LordTyran <a2k(a)one.net> wrote:
> You burned your own ROMs? What for?
>
According to one of the Sun 3/60 pages, different ROMs were installed in
various units, depending on what the bootstrap needs were (boot from tape,
CD, with framebuffer, without, etc.). I don't have that information handy,
but since I was assembling a 3/60 from several parts (CPU, external shoebox
with 150Mb SCSI tape, 200Mb SCSI disk, no CD), I wanted to make sure that
the ROMs I had would work with my configuration. Starting an intact 3/60
is not that complicated. I'm essentially building one from scratch.
-ethan
_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
There have, in recent years come to be other manufacturers offering the
PALCE version of the popular LATTICE GAL's. Cypress is, indeed, among them.
As for the feedback, if you use pins 1 or 11 as something other than CLOCK
or /OE, as they were used in the 16-series PALs, then the input path from
them preempted the feedback from these end macrocells. I wouldn't remember
that, except that PALASM slapped my wrist for it a couple of times early in
my experience with them, so, like the dog who once pee'd on the electric
fence, I remember that. There are other little "gotchas" with the various
versions of these parts.
Dick
-----Original Message-----
From: Pete Turnbull <pete(a)dunnington.u-net.com>
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
Date: Tuesday, June 29, 1999 12:52 AM
Subject: Re: chips
>On Jun 28, 17:41, Richard Erlacher wrote:
>> Subject: Re: chips
>> SInce these are electrically eraseable it's of no consequence what the
>> previous program was. These parts can be viewed as a relplacement for
>the
>> entire 16xN series where x=L or R and N ranges from 4 to 8. They can
>> effectively emulate/replace 16L8, 16R4, 16R6 and 16R8 with a few
>exceptions.
>> The macrocells associated with pins 19 and 12 have no feedback path of
>their
>> own, i.e. it must be via the adjacent macrocell. The data book (these
>are
>> AMD/Vantis parts) for the Lattice GAL parts will explain it adequately if
>> you can't lay hands on an AMD databook.
>
>They're not necessarily AMD; they could be Cypress parts, or one of a few
>other manufacturers. Unfortunately, not all use the same erase or
>programming algorithms (Lattice, National Semiconductor, and SGS Thomson
> use one algorithm; AMD, Texas, Cypress, Altera and ICT use others).
>
>Why do you say that pins 12 and 19 have no feedback path of their own?
> They do in my data sheets...
>
>--
>
>Pete Peter Turnbull
> Dept. of Computer Science
> University of York
--- blstuart(a)bellsouth.net wrote:
> In message <199906271535.AA28999(a)world.std.com>, Allison J Parent writes:
> >BI is open but, was designed for high speed and multiple processesors.
> >The bus requires a chipset to communucate over it and while it was supposed
> >ot be widely available it was never widely adopted.
>
> It was open? I could swear I remember a really big stink in
> the DEC press when the BI was introduced. Of course, this
> wouldn't be the first time bit-rot affected my historical
> claims.
It was licensed. I worked for a "third-party vendor" back in those days. We
were denied a license in 1984 when we first applied (when it would have done
some good) and were granted one in 1989, long after the VAX-BI was relevant.
We sold a handful of boards, only part of our prototype batch (compared with
hundreds of Q-bus boards and a couple thousand UNIBUS boards).
Because DEC never really opened up the licensing program until later (unless
you made a board that they didn't care about, then it was easy), the market
never really took off for them. Once the VAX-4000 line came out, it was
easier and cheaper to buy a couple of 4000's to replace aging 11/7xx and
other mid-range VAXen than it was to jump up to a 6xxx or 8700/88xx. We
had more UNIBUS->Q-bus upgrade sales than anything->VAXBI.
I still have most of that first run of board. If I ever have far too much
time on my hands, I'll write some new code for it - 68010 @ 10Mhz, Z8530 SIO,
2Mb RAM, 64kb ROM, DMA interface, timer. I suppose I could turn it into an
intellegent PPP interface or make it do Localtalk (with a change in line
drivers)
-ethan
_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
<< Apologies if this was posted twice... >>
Gang -
I know they're highly sought-after, but I'd really love to snag an
APL-capable IBM 5100 and thought I'd throw the question open...
There's something about those systems I always liked (even though I
didn't use one more than a couple of times in high school.) Is there any
chance that I might be able to tempt one of you elusive 5100 owners with
some combination of the following?
> DEC PDP-8/L
> Teletype ASR-33
Apple Macintosh Portable (with case)
> NeXTstation Turbo Color (minus monitor and sound box)
> HP 85 with a variety of ROM drawers
> HP 9825A with 8" floppy drive
>
There'd be some shipping issues, but I'd even be open to parting
with an IBM 1130 (missing keyboard, power supply and drum disk.)
Any interest?
> -- Tony Eros
Mid-Atlantic Computer History Museum
