On Thursday, April 08, 1999 6:16 AM, Charles E. Fox [SMTP:foxvideo@wincom.net] wrote:
>
> Did anyone catch the bit on ABC news last night about the use of old
> computers to fill potholes?
> I think some of our Windsor potholes would require at least a mini.
>
> Regards
Here's the story:
http://www.cnn.com/NATURE/9904/07/computers.potholes.ap/
Steve Robertson <steverob(a)hotoffice.com>
It is interesting to me that others view Lisp as a high level language. For
my money, it is an assembly language for an abstract computer. Sure, it
has much of the form of a high level language but, the simplicity of its
minimal number of required operators makes it ideal as a machine
language. As I recall, CAR, CDR, CONS, and four or five more operators
is all that is necessary for a complete implementation. This is RISC
processing if ever there is such a thing. Moreover, the fact that all
things
are handled as a single data type sure does imply an object point of
view, however much that point of view is myopically constrained (that
the objects are all lists!).
The most interesting aspect of Lisp, for me, is that code can be
constructed by the operation of a program, and thereupon caused to
be executed. This is another parallel with machine languages.
William R. Buckley
I don't believe those were the earliest of the 5-1/4" types. The early
SA-400's I remember used a lead screw just like the 8" drives, but that was
too costly for the competition that followed. When Apple started buying
"partial" drive mechanisms in order to implement their more software-driven
approach, with the idea of saving a few bucks . . . multiplied by a milion
or two drives . . . other manufacturers including SIEMENS and BASF, among
others, tried a two-phase stepper on a helically-tracked drive wheel as
opposed to the stepper driving a lead screw. Most makers later went to a
band-actuator system using a small stepper.
Since the business of designing floppy and hard disk controllers was my long
suit back then, I had several of nearly every type of FDD and HDD lying
around the shop, and there were LOTS. By the time IBM got into the game,
the positioning mechanism contest was pretty well settled. Apple drives
used a form of GCR on their drives, the heads of which were positioned with
a software timed DC motor, while nearly everyone else used FM or MFM on
drives which used steppers driving band actuators. Once the volume was up,
the cost wasn't that much greater, while the precision and accuracy were
quite a bit greater. I don't even remember what the nature of the physical
linkage between the motor an the head positoner was, since I stayed away
>from them. I still have an Apple drive somewhere. I suppose I could look .
. .
Of course, Apple's orientation toward YOUR data was that nobody really cared
if you had to punt and hit the reset button just because the FDD wouldn't
read the floppy it wrote just a few minutes before . . . After all, if you
were serious, you didn't use an Apple. If you were serious it's for sure
you had some 8" drives for the data you wanted to keep.
Dick
-----Original Message-----
From: James Willing <jimw(a)agora.rdrop.com>
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
Date: Wednesday, April 07, 1999 1:57 PM
Subject: Re: Heatkit 5 1/4 floppies
>On Wed, 7 Apr 1999, Jeffrey l Kaneko wrote:
>
>> These were in common use on Z89's and Z-90's. Heathkit used drives made
>> by
>> Tandon and Siemens. The Siemens drives were kinda unique: It used a
>> disk with a spiral groove for the head positioner.
>
>Hmmm... hardly that unique it would seem... The Shugart SA-400 series
>drives used that same positioning systems (first?).
>
>-jim
>---
>jimw(a)agora.rdrop.com
>The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw
>Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174
>
Well, I just bought something at a used bookstore called "SOFTCARD; VOLUME II"
Its a microsoft product, and apparently its illegal to even give it away,
let alone to resell it ;) I'm going to ignore that obviously illegal
wording ;)
Apparenly this is the software and manual for the Microsoft Z80 card
for the Apple II series. I have one floppy disk, never used, in
16-sector format for DOS 3.3 or language card. Apparently there should
be another manual with chapters 1-3 (unfotunately these are the
more interesting chapters), whereas this is chapter 4 on the latest and
greatest microsoft basic ever created, which is apparently on the
floppy disks ;) plus a little information in the final chapter 5.
I dont suppose i can use any of this without the Z80 card? The cp/m wont
work without it i'm guessing. Am I correct in guessing all this is
good for is Ebay or trades?
-Lawrence LeMay
PS: I also picked up a nice copy of "the programmers CP/M handbook" which
provides extensive coverage of CP/M 2.2, mainly assebly listings. It
looks like more than 50% of it is assembly listings. Interesting...
PPS: I really should go back and buy that UCSD P-system book, I suppose.
On Tue, 6 Apr 1999, ard(a)p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) wrote:
] > To put this slightly on topic, we all know that computer systems have
] > become more reliable in the last 20 years but does anyone have any real
]
] I am not totally convinced. Computers have become a lot more complicated
] in the last 20 years, and IMHO some of that complexity has led to
] unreliablity (cf the comparative crash rate of say Windows and CP/M).
I am totally unconvinced. :-)
The number of times per day that I run into something that doesn't
work has steadily gone up over the years. Years ago, although the
machine might crash from time to time, it would generally work pretty
well. Nowadays, even when the machine is "working", I have to wait
for the characters that I type to show up on my screen, and programs
that I run every day will often refuse to work because some server
that I've never even heard of is down or unreachable.
Prediction: between ten and twenty years from now, somebody will
discover "standalone" computing; that a computer can be made to
function even when not attached to a network. It will be a
revolution, paving the way for systems that keep working once
they are set up, even with evil sysadmins reconfiguring everything
they can get their hands on three times a week.
] Also, I have had _far_ more built-to-a-price PC parts land on my bench to
] be repaired than (say) DEC PDP11 and PDP8 parts. For all I have had to
] maintain many _more_ of the latter type of machine.
]
] -tony
Did anyone catch the bit on ABC news last night about the use of old
computers to fill potholes?
I think some of our Windsor potholes would require at least a mini.
Regards
Charlie Fox
Charles E. Fox
Chas E. Fox Video Productions
793 Argyle Rd. Windsor N8Y 3J8 Ont. Canada
email foxvideo(a)wincom.net Homepage http://www.wincom.net/foxvideo
Anyone know if there's ever anything like this in/near/around Western PA
(Eastern Ohio, Northern VA)?
--
-Jason Willgruber
(roblwill(a)usaor.net)
ICQ#: 1730318
<http://members.tripod.com/general_1>
-----Original Message-----
From: Lawrence Walker <lwalker(a)mail.interlog.com>
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
Date: Wednesday, April 07, 1999 6:34 PM
Subject: Re: SoCal TRW Swap and DEC Open House
On 7 Apr 99 at 17:04, John Lawson wrote:
>
>
> As promised last month... this month, April, on Saturday the
> 24th, I will offer hospitality and welcome to anyone wishing to
> view/play with/make bad jokes about my DEC collection. As many
> systems as I can get running will be 'on the air' (tho not all at
> once... zzzzzmp!) for your perusal and happiness. You can paw thru
> the junk and maybe find something you've wanted for months... we can
> trade... you can help me clean out the garage... (please....!)
>
> I will attend the TRW Swap Meet the morning of the 24th, and all
> are invited there, and immediately afterwards to the usual post-swap
> brunch-n-brag (around noon). Then I will travel to My Place, and any
> folk wishing to join in at any point in the day's activities are most
> welcome.
>
> We can party until Sunday night, if that's what you want. I have
> to be at work Monday morning, and so do you. Otherwise, it's
> unstructured.
>
> I would prefer to give directions privately, since where you are
> coming from will modify them. Please e-mail me if you think you
> might like to participate. It's completely informal, all are
> welcome, and if no one shows up, I'm gonna play with the machines
> all by myself. Directions will also be available from me at TRW.
>
> I know that several NorCal (Bay Area) listmembers [Sam?] told me
> they were going to try and make it down... let me know and we'll
> leave alll the lights on. :)
>
> Just a heads-up for all, and I encourage others in other locales to
> consider hosting a Compu-crawl for your area... it's a lot more
> interesting to me than Tupperware...
>
>
> Cheerz
>
> John
--- Bruce Lane <kyrrin(a)my-dejanews.com> wrote:
> Arrrgh! Why couldn't this guy have been in north Seattle or something?
> I've been hunting for an 11/83!
>
> Anyone in Ohio looking for a nice PDP in a Worldbox?
I've been looking for any PDP-11 faster than an 11/23. The WorldBox is
a nice touch (I've already got one for my uVAX-II)
> Attachment follows.
Thanks. I was out of town for the original announcement. I'll see if it's
still available (probably not).
-ethan
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--- Mike Ford <mikeford(a)netwiz.net> wrote:
> >Anyone know if there's ever anything like this in/near/around Western PA
> >(Eastern Ohio, Northern VA)?
>
> Yes of course. Find hams, any ham, and they will know all the horsetrading
> within unreasonable driving distance.
I am in Central Ohio (not exactly Eastern Ohio, but probably as close to the
request as we're likely to see). The big mother of swapmeets in my immediate
area are the shows in Dayton in March and August (Dayton Computerfest) and
the massive Dayton Hamfest in May. Admittedly, none of these shows are purely
people with cool, used stuff to sell (there are more vendors selling new
stuff),
but I got some great bargains at the computerfest last month on lots of used
items that I have been seeking for some time.
These days there aren't many classics at the Dayton shows, but I have purchased
at Dayton in the past things like a COSMAC VIP, an ASR-33, a PDP-8L (my first
-8, about 15 years ago), DECmates, CPU chips from the 1970's, etc. Lately,
it's been easier to find older components than systems; I've gotten boxes of
Teac FD55's for a song (still untested ;-), MFM disk drives for less than $0.20
per meg, uVAX and DECmate cables for $1, some older IC's occasionally, etc.
Other than Dayton, there are a few Hamfests that I make a point of going to,
first and foremost: the Mansfield Hamfest, one of the first of the season.
It's where I picked up that Apple //c+, recently. Someone had a Kapyro 2
there, but I wasn't going to pay $100 for it.
We don't have as many opportunities here as on the coasts, but things can
be found. I just last night rescued a uVAX 2000 with a pair of VR290's
(one working, one with a bad power supply) from the widow of a friend of
mine who died last year. I was told to get this "junk" this week or it
was going out with the neighborhood bulk collection next week. Besides the
CPU and monitors, there's a TK50-FA, an LA120 and an 8-port terminal server.
Does anybody but DEC speak LAT?
-ethan
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--- Ethan Dicks <ethan_dicks(a)yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
> Further, I am also told that a 6XX/MP board _will_ work in any sort of
> Sun VMS cage, including a 4/110 tower, one of the smaller configurations
> that Sun sold.
Doh! Make that a "VME" cage.
-ethan
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