>On Mon, 5 Apr 1999, Derek Peschel wrote:
>
>> I was going to mention RPG in my original post but I changed my mind. ...
> ...
>Believe it or not people still use that abomination. ...
>
>Its funny because it's programmed much like the earlier versions of
>ForTran, where each statement and associated arguments and data must start
>in a particular column due to its origins as a punched card language.
>
>I would hope the latest version of RPG does away with the archaic column
>specificity.
Don't know about the latest versions of RPG, but it should not be forgotten
that RPG was developed as an emulator for the 407 Tab machine. You could
use it to turn a 1401 with a very small memory, i.e. 1.2K, into a 407 Tab
machine, thusly you could turn the legion of 407 plug board programmers
into computer programmers. One 1401 could do the same amount of work as
several 407 Tab machines, much to the chagrin of IBM because the rent on
one 1401 could be less than the rent of three 407s, depending on the
configurations of each.
-- Dean
At 11:31 AM 4/7/99 -0700, Sellam wrote:
>...
>I tried to get him to speak at VCF 2.0 after he got axed by Conner (was it
>Conner?) but I could never get ahold of him. I think he would have a good
>story to tell so I may try again this year.
Finis Conner worked for Al Shugart years ago, then left to start his own
company. A couple of years ago it was in trouble and Shugart bought Conner
Peripherals, but Finnis Conner soon departed. Last year sometime the board
of directors of Seagate terminated Al Shugart's contract.
-- Dean
>
> I was doing a bit of research and came across an interesting page:
>
> http://www.lysator.liu.se/adventure/
>
> lists adventure games for various computers, including machines like the
> PDP series and the much, much better (and far too infrequently mentioned)
> HP 3000. 8^)
>
>
Ahhh.... Adventure.... All the plugh's and plovers and xyzzy's you could
shake a stick (of dynamite) at....
Does anyone remember a version that:
If you went down from the hall of the Mt. king, you
were in a room with a vault door. If you tried to
apply any of the standard magic words (xyzzy etc)
the door would fuse shut and something (a blob? a djinn?)
would show up several turns later, chase you down, and
kill you?
It ran on a CPM machine in the early 80's.
clint
I was doing a bit of research and came across an interesting page:
http://www.lysator.liu.se/adventure/
lists adventure games for various computers, including machines like the
PDP series and the much, much better (and far too infrequently mentioned)
HP 3000. 8^)
--------------------------------------------------------------------- O-
Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad
roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know."
Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates
San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/
8" drives typically spun all the time, as their motors were AC types. If
your 5-1/4" drive spins all the time, something's wrong. They had a
nMOTOR_ON signal which you can monitor to determine whether it's a defective
drive or a bunged-up driver. One important reason for the popularity of the
smaller drives over the AC-powered 8" types was noise. If the drive is
running all the time, clearly there's something wrong. It could be in the
jumpering of the drive or in the controller firmware. It could even be a
jumper option on the controller. You'll ruin lots of floppies in a drive
which doesn't stop and which doesn't unload its heads. It's easy to monitor
the control signals. If the controller tells the disk drive to keep
spinning, you need to "fix" the BIOS code.
Dick
-----Original Message-----
From: Joe <rigdonj(a)intellistar.net>
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
Date: Thursday, April 08, 1999 9:13 AM
Subject: Re: Heatkit 5 1/4 floppies
>At 09:43 PM 4/7/99 -0700, you wrote:
>
>People today don't realize that the old
>>systems used a floppy like present systems use a hard drive, almost all
the
>>time, which is a heck of a lot of wear for a contact media.
>
> I used to work for Burroughs and they had a computer that used 8"
>floppys that spun continously. Burroughs said to replace the disks every
>100 hours. I have no idea how long they would actually run before failing.
> Does anyone know? I have a CPM machine that spins it's 5 1/4" disk
>continously but I haven't run it enough for a disk to fail.
>
> Joe
>>
>>
>
I received this message and I do not know what it is about!
Stephanie sring(a)uslink.net
-----Original Message-----
From: Derek Peschel <dpeschel(a)u.washington.edu>
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
Date: Wednesday, April 07, 1999 4:16 AM
Subject: Re: sending you a book?
>I asked you about a book I got for you; you seemed interested but I still
>want to confirm. Also I need your postal address.
>
>-- Derek
>
Not all mini-floppy drives have the ability to load/unload the head. If
yours doesn't, it's advisable to fix the spin-up/spin-down problem with
either software or hardware, i.e. jumpers or the like. The decision to go
ahead and wear down the emulsion of your floppy diskette was made when
drives and media were common. That's no longer the case, and since you're
into retrocomputing, the slower(oops, I mean "more realistic") it is, the
better you'll like it, right??? The last time I checked (a long time ago)
my CP/M-ulator ran at 6-7x the speed of the "real McCoy" so I doubt you're
running the old hardware just to run those old programs.
While it's true that 8" drives can run constantly without media or head
damage they had head-load solenoids as opposed to a spring which loads the
heads once the drive door is closed as the mini-floppies often do. The
emulsion on a floppy diskette becomes increasingly abrasive as the emulsion
ages and, not only will it dirty the heads by leaving whatever dust or other
glutch is present on the diskette in the head gap, but it will polish and
grind on your heads. If you want your heads worn and dirty, running them in
constant contact with the media and spinning will do it just fine.
Dick
-----Original Message-----
From: Joe <rigdonj(a)intellistar.net>
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
Date: Thursday, April 08, 1999 1:21 PM
Subject: Re: Heatkit 5 1/4 floppies
>Dick,
>
> I don't know if they're supposed to run all the time or not, but both
>drives do it so I don't think it's a problem in the drives. A lot of the
>older drives had jumpers to cause them to run continously. I guess it
>saved the time needed to spin the drive up to speed. Several people have
>said that they have systems with 5 1/4" drives that spin all the time so it
>may be normal. Allison says that her 8" drives have run thousands of hours
>without problems so I hope it's not a problem.
>
> Joe
>
>At 11:50 AM 4/8/99 -0600, you wrote:
>>8" drives typically spun all the time, as their motors were AC types. If
>>your 5-1/4" drive spins all the time, something's wrong. They had a
>>nMOTOR_ON signal which you can monitor to determine whether it's a
defective
>>drive or a bunged-up driver. One important reason for the popularity of
the
>>smaller drives over the AC-powered 8" types was noise. If the drive is
>>running all the time, clearly there's something wrong. It could be in the
>>jumpering of the drive or in the controller firmware. It could even be a
>>jumper option on the controller. You'll ruin lots of floppies in a drive
>>which doesn't stop and which doesn't unload its heads. It's easy to
monitor
>>the control signals. If the controller tells the disk drive to keep
>>spinning, you need to "fix" the BIOS code.
>>
>>Dick
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: Joe <rigdonj(a)intellistar.net>
>>To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
>><classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
>>Date: Thursday, April 08, 1999 9:13 AM
>>Subject: Re: Heatkit 5 1/4 floppies
>>
>>
>>>At 09:43 PM 4/7/99 -0700, you wrote:
>>>
>>>People today don't realize that the old
>>>>systems used a floppy like present systems use a hard drive, almost all
>>the
>>>>time, which is a heck of a lot of wear for a contact media.
>>>
>>> I used to work for Burroughs and they had a computer that used 8"
>>>floppys that spun continously. Burroughs said to replace the disks every
>>>100 hours. I have no idea how long they would actually run before
failing.
>>> Does anyone know? I have a CPM machine that spins it's 5 1/4" disk
>>>continously but I haven't run it enough for a disk to fail.
>>>
>>> Joe
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
In a message dated 08/04/99 10:22:43 Eastern Daylight Time, edick(a)idcomm.com
writes:
<< Since new floppy drives cost about $25 including shipment, it's difficult
to
justify repairing them. This is frustrating for people like you who have
drives for which replacements are not readily available for $20 or so.
Your experience with sloppy workmanship gives clear indication that $10 per
hour is not enough to pay a competent technician. The occasional look
inside should give you good indication of why one who can't spend more than
15 minutes' time fixing a $20 drive, can't get the job done. These devices
must be considered "throw-away" items by now. You've got to learn to
fix-em-yourself. >>
agreed, but i'd only apply this throw away mindset to ordinary pc floppy
drives. mac suprdrives are hard to find and expensive. i've one now in my mac
IIx that's not reading any disks. apple drives are plentiful and cheap, but
i'd fix them as well since none are produced anymore, obviously.
Since new floppy drives cost about $25 including shipment, it's difficult to
justify repairing them. This is frustrating for people like you who have
drives for which replacements are not readily available for $20 or so.
Your experience with sloppy workmanship gives clear indication that $10 per
hour is not enough to pay a competent technician. The occasional look
inside should give you good indication of why one who can't spend more than
15 minutes' time fixing a $20 drive, can't get the job done. These devices
must be considered "throw-away" items by now. You've got to learn to
fix-em-yourself.
Dick
-----Original Message-----
From: Mike Ford <mikeford(a)netwiz.net>
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
Date: Thursday, April 08, 1999 2:29 AM
Subject: Fooling with floppy drives
>Coincident with all this chatter on floppy drives I have run into a streak
>of uncooperative drives. I happen to be using macs with 3.5" Sony
>mechanisms, but my question is somewhat general. What do you do with floppy
>drives that need repairs?
>
>Normally I just put them aside, but after this week I have close to a dozen
>in the defective box and ZERO (actually a negative number since I need even
>more) reliable units that aren't already installed in other systems.
>
>I have already performed the first aid procedures like cleaning the heads
>(using a wet cleaning floppy), and disassembly down to the bare mechanism
>and blowing out the bunnies with canned air. This pile is the hard core
>rejects, floppy doesn't spin, floppy doesn't eject, which I guess means a
>drive motor or support electronics is shot.
>
>For perspective, Apple still wants like $150 for a new floppy, mail order
>sources have the same for about $70, and reliable refurbs run the gamut
>from a low of about $20 up to $50 or more (used OK drives are $10 to $20.
>and my last pesky supplier was asking $5 for untested pulls). What I am
>finding disturbing is that more and more of the drives I see have OBVIOUSLY
>been swapped from another machine, or show other signs of being opened up
>by non techs (missing screws or other parts).
>
>What are your opinions, practices, or sources?
>
>Do any of you fix your floppies?
>
>Thanks.
>
>
