-----Original Message-----
From: Sellam Ismail <dastar(a)ncal.verio.com>
>Only in sufficient quantity, but remember this was about the price of a
>new kit in 1976 (ok, maybe a bit higher), and therefore inflation would
>dictate a much higher cost these days.
that's accelerating inflation if todays cosmologists are on the right
track..
;)
Mike: dogas(a)leading.net
>Now the first quesiton is this. I've got a bunch of RL01's and RL02's with
>software on them, and when I got them I backed them up onto my Linux box so
>I could play with them in the Emulator without having RL01/02 drives in the
>house. Using the network I should be able to transfer those Disk Images
>over to the PDP-11. However, can I mount those disk images under RSX-11M
>4.2 like I can RT-11 disk images under RT-11? If so what do I need to do
>this?
If you wanted access to the RT-11 files on the RL02, you'd use FLX. Type
HELP FLX at the MCR prompt.
I suspect that you want to access the "raw" image, though. If you were
using 11M+, you'd do a MOU /FOR, then you'd be able to block-address
the drive as the file "DL0:", etc. Under 11M you don't even have to do
the /FOR (though you may have to do an ALLocate.)
>Second question. As I understand it, using DECnet it is possible to use
>the tape drive on VAX from another VAX.
Depending on the version and the tape interface and what software you have,
yes it can be accessed over the network. The best way to do this is to
have the machine with the drive do TMSCP serving to the rest of the cluster,
though there do exist DECUS freeware tools for non-cluster serving across
DECNET.
> Well, the VAX in the house doesn't
>have a tapedrive, and I've not run the network out to the garage. So is it
>possible to have the VAX access the TK-50 on the PDP-11/73 via DECnet?
FAL on RSX won't let you do so. But you could upgrade to 11M+ 4.5, and
use VCP to make a tape image. But even this isn't very smooth.
My favorite solution would be sneakernet - pull the drive and controller
and move it !
--
Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com
Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/
7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917
Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927
<tricky to exploit anyway -- the cracker needed to have read the
<source code).
I'd say VMS is the best I've worked with as the base security is pretty
tight. It also has the less than common attribute.
As a system it falls into my criteria:
Stable mature systems I know how to use.
Allison
A few posts back I remember this young man relying on MSD to figure out what
he had. I personally have always found MSD to be worse than useless. If
he's confused, that's why.
As for the serial ports, the UART or maybe ART (also a valid acronymn, I
guess, since they're hardly universal any more) these are normally
recognized by means of the interrupt they return. If, let's assume, the
plug-N-play was altered by enabling the control parameter in the CMOS ram,
which allows this, then it might physically assign a different interrupt
than previously. Possibly a new hardware device was installed. It then
causes the firmware to reallocate resources, but perhaps not modify the
tables, hence fail to recognize devices because it was not told to update
the table. Now it doesn't get the correct interrupt from the serial ports,
hence concludes the port is absent.
Does that sound possible?
Dick
-----Original Message-----
From: Tony Duell <ard(a)p850ug1.demon.co.uk>
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
Date: Saturday, March 20, 1999 6:29 PM
Subject: Re: OT: Re: Security question (sort of)/goodbye
>> As for those of you addressing a BIOS problem, you are wrong. First of
all,
>> I could no longer enter the CMOS setup- the computer would freeze.
>
>But isn't this one heck of a clue? Damage to serial ports can't affect
>configuring the CMOS RAM AFAIK. But damage to the bios ROM itself could.
>As could (in theory) misprogramming an address decoder....
>
>> Secondly, I bought a new AMIBOIS chip at the computer show today, and
>> installed it in the motherboard. Booted, reconfigured, re-ran Windows
>> setup. No serial ports detected (yes, I am smart enough to enable them in
>> the CMOS setup). Windows says that the secondary controller of the dual
IDE
>> controller is "not present or not working properly" - yes, it is enabled
in
>> the CMOS.
>
>Again, this looks like an address conflict or similar.
>
>Are the UARTs on the motherboard or an expansion card? Are they part of
>some large ASIC, or do you have a chance to probe the chip select pin?
>
>That's what I would do if possible, btw. Trigger a logic analyser off the
>CS/ pin and see what's on the address bus at the time.
>
>-tony
>
Well, I'm with you on this one. Your remarks are right on the money. An item is worth exactly what someone will pay, no more, and no less. As I wrote before, I may see some of them as idiots, but idiots have a right to the market as much as any of us. If my hardware is worth more to someone else than it is to you, it is my responsibility to see that I get the benefit I feel I deserve. If I sell to you for $50 when someone else offers $500, the blame is on me for taking less than the highest offer, not on someone else for overbidding.
You've undoubtedly read my comments about the low (70%) completion rate of eBay transactions. It is easy to agree that people should follow through when they offer the winning bid as opposed to what nearly one in three apparently does, which is to walk away, having ruined the auction by bidding out the more serious bidders, when there was no serious commitment to buy.
Unfortunately the law is unclear as to the rights and obligations of the parties involved in this type of transaction. I've always felt that internet commerce needs to be handled in such a way as to share the risk, i.e. not require that one party take all the risk by, say, demanding the buyer pay in advance, using "good" funds (cash or certified) or that the seller ship in advance of payment. There are escrow agencies who support transactions of this type, and they can superficially verify that the package sent contains something other than a brick, but they can't be relied upon to verify that the condition of the package contents are as the seller advertised beyond superficial examination.
How, then, could one improve on the 70% completion rate?
The validity of the funds is easy enough to verify, but what about the merchandise? It would cost a fortune to verify that every item, be it a Ming Dynasty vase, or a memory card from an antique 8008-based computer is in the condition advertised by the seller. You'd have to engage a panel of experts. True, every item could be sold "as is" in order to avoid having to verify condition, but what about completeness and authenticity?
The problem with "bonded" status for buyers and sellers, is that it essentially means that the organization becomes involved in the transaction. EBay manages to avoid this. The eBay auction does essentially nothing more than the misc.forsale.whatever newsgroups, except for the very thing that Sam Ismail has been complaining about, which is imposing a hysterical framework around what should be a sensible and orderly process.
Now, I don't draw the same conclusions he does, nor do I believe people to be the "idiots" he finds them to be. I do see his viewpoint, but, like you, I disagree with his ultimate conclusions. EBay does charge the would-be seller a fee based on the final bid price and not on the actual selling price. It benefits them to have the prices as high as they will go. My belief on this matter is that the very thing which drives the prices up is also the thing that causes the high transaction failure rate.
The various auction pages around the web stay out of the transaction in order to avoid liability for perceived misrepresentation on the part of the seller as well as failure of the buyer to make valid payment. That's the only position they can take in order to avoid this liability. The buyer is, indeed, offering to pay for an item, sight unseen, while the seller is offering to deliver the merchandise without any binding assurance that the funds will be forthcoming.
How can you envision solving this dilemma?
Dick
-----Original Message-----
From: Barry A. Watzman <Watzman(a)ibm.net>
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
Date: Sunday, March 21, 1999 9:13 AM
Subject: Seller's market
The messages by some of the participants shows that they really do not understand [or perhaps do not want] the concept of a free market. What they really want is a highly imperfect market so that they can buy things at low prices even though there are people around who are willing to pay more [given the presumption that all sellers will sell to the highest bidder ..... and I use the term bidder loosely, not necessarily to imply an auction type format].
The internet is having a huge impact on buying and selling because it is creating the most free and perfect market that ever existed. The definition of such a market is that every buyer knows of every seller, and vice versa; the sellers are able to find the buyer willing to pay the highest price, AND the buyers are able to find the sellers willing to sell for the lowest price.
GROW UP ! You have no right to complain because someone else is willing to pay more than either you are willing to pay or than you think that the item is worth. In the latter case, someone else obviously disagrees with you, and IS willing to put their money where their mouth is.
That said, I do feel that steps should be taken to INSURE that bidders complete their deals. If I were a seller, and someone bid $5,000 and then backed out, I'd seriously consider legal action to enforce specific performance. I believe that bids on E-Bay are legally enforceable, but in 90% of the cases, because of both the amount and the fact that the buyer and seller are probably in different states, it is just not practical to try and enforce it. However when the bids get into the thousands of dollars, the situation changes and it may become practical to seek a court order of specific performance.
But, perhaps a better way would be for E-Bay to create a new class of "Bonded Buyers and Sellers", in which E-Bay has credit card numbers from both buyer and seller, and both buyer and seller have agreed to binding arbritration by a 3rd party [E-Bay]. A bonded seller could designate an auction as open only to bonded bidders, with the assurance on both sides that the transaction WOULD be completed and that items offered would be as described.
If you're thinking about the monitor as being useable with a PC, it depends
on which type it is. The lower-resolution type (I once had one) will work
at 1024x768 if you connect a resistor of about 500 ohms between the
composite blanking signal on the "application connector" to the GREEN output
>from the card. This will impose the composite blanking beneath the GREEN
video, and bias the GREEN up by about enough to make the composite blanking
look like a composite sync, since it's of the right frequency. The GREEN
input is usually AC coupled at the monitor, and terminated to ground through
75 ohms. This is worth a try, but may not work on all card-monitor
combinations.
It will of course not work at all until you load the 1kx768 driver, which
will only happen when the hi-res GUI is loaded.
Dick
-----Original Message-----
From: Merle K. Peirce <at258(a)osfn.org>
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
Date: Thursday, March 18, 1999 5:27 PM
Subject: Re: Apollo 400
>
>Ours stands about waist high and has to weigh over 100#. since it has
>wheels, it is, of course, portabel...;) The monitor on ours appears to
>be secured to the top. Ours was the main server on a token ring.
>
>On Thu, 18 Mar 1999, John Amirault wrote:
>
>> Merle,
>> I would not call my HP Apollo 400 a portable by any means. It stands
>> about 2' tall and weighs in @ about 70 pounds, which is the top end of
>> what my doctors say I can lift and I find that trying to do this is very
>> pain full, thank goodness for friends and hand trucks. Mine has no
>> wheels. Mine also has a cable with three BNC connectors on each end to
>> hook up the monitor. I have been told of a possible source for a monitor
>> and I say thanks Sellam and I will check into it.
>>
>> JOhn Amirault
>>
>> "Merle K. Peirce" wrote:
>> >
>> > Perhaps I'm thinking of the 300 series? Is the 400 the very large
>> > portable with its own wheels?
>> >
>> > On Wed, 17 Mar 1999, Merle K. Peirce wrote:
>> >
>> > > I think the 400 series have integral monitors, John.
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > On Wed, 17 Mar 1999, John Amirault wrote:
>> > >
>> > > > Mike,
>> > > > Is this the HP Apollo 400? If yes,are there any monitors?
>> > > > JOhn Amirault
>> > > >
>> > > > Mike Ford wrote:
>> > > > >
>> > > > > I had a pleasant afternoon poking around one of my favorite
scrappers, and
>> > > > > noticed on an incoming cart about two dozen Apollo 400 computers
(says
>> > > > > model 425 on the back). Hard drives are pulled, but otherwise
they are
>> > > > > supposed to be complete. Any interest? (he is in Santa Ana CA)
>> > > >
>> > >
>> > > M. K. Peirce
>> > > Rhode Island Computer Museum, Inc.
>> > > 215 Shady Lea Road,
>> > > North Kingstown, RI 02852
>> > >
>> > > "Casta est qui nemo rogavit."
>> > >
>> > > - Ovid
>> > >
>> > >
>> >
>> > M. K. Peirce
>> > Rhode Island Computer Museum, Inc.
>> > 215 Shady Lea Road,
>> > North Kingstown, RI 02852
>> >
>> > "Casta est qui nemo rogavit."
>> >
>> > - Ovid
>>
>
>M. K. Peirce
>Rhode Island Computer Museum, Inc.
>215 Shady Lea Road,
>North Kingstown, RI 02852
>
>"Casta est qui nemo rogavit."
>
> - Ovid
>
<What are "ART" chips? I've never heard of them, and apparently none of
<my serial ports have them.
<
<And if your serial ports do have ART chips, how is it that a software
<virus managed to remove them?
Good questions... I just put up a new PIII system and there ain't no art
chips on it, just standard EX chipset.
Allowing for the possibility that the UART (16550s) are somehow cooked
the solution would be a serial board plugged in. However the level of
integration is so high on the new generation board if the serial dies
the whole board is dead and would fail POST. I'll assume you mean UART
chips. If its a late model motherboard the two serial ports, the parallel
The FDC and IDE are all comming out of one of the 144leg chips. They
have little likelyhood of failure (they are 16550 cell libraires in the
ASIC) without taking other functions with them. they can be programatically
turned of from the CMOS setup (usually the advanced chipset function in
AMI). I've used that capability to map out on board serial port 2 for a
modem at the same address.
However if the bios chip is wrong and does not know of the local chipset
capabilities the board level initilization will not work and devices can
and will be left out. I found that out trying to use a bios chip from a 386
board for a more highly integrated 486 board... it did boot but many
functions were not right. it did prove the original bios chips was fried
(27C512P (OTC eprom) totally dead) I used my programmer to copy a BIOS from
a similar card into a handy 27C eprom and it worked fine.
Like I said if winders boots, major part of the machine has to be there
and working. It was true with ALTAIR and hasn't changed.
Then again I still run S100 hardware and VAX next to my P166.
Current prices for a new mother board without cpu are low enough to
consider replacement a viable option.
Allison
Hi,
----------
> From: Sellam Ismail <dastar(a)ncal.verio.com>
> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
> Subject: Re: "new" classics (was Re: Pre-history of Digital Research)
> Date: Saturday, March 20, 1999 8:03 PM
> > Unfortunately I think this is way off topic for this group.
> I don't think so. But we could have Doug create a new list called
> homebrew.
Try the comp.arch.hobbyist newsgroup. It's moderated, and all this PC crap
stays outside.
> Homebrewing is a lost pasttime for the most part. I want to bring it
> back, at least for myself.
It's different now, you use different chips & environment. But now you can
define your own cpu & peripherials, what is somekind of fun.
cheers & have fun,
emanuel
You are never going to see a "new" IMSAI for $500.
In the first place, many of the parts that would be needed for a complete system are no longer available.
In the second place, the original IMSAI was not UL approved (or even safe, really) and could probably not be sold today.
In the third place, the original IMSAI was not even close to meeting FCC Class A much less B.
Finally, $500 would be cheap for a low-volume copy, regulatory issues aside.
Do not be surprised when your unrealistic expectations are not realized.
-----Original Message-----
From: Allison J Parent <allisonp(a)world.std.com>
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
Date: Sunday, March 21, 1999 9:39 AM
Subject: Re: SWTPc 6800, common format (sharable?) repair journal?
><and transister( 18n9 ) from rectifier bridge. The soldering job on MP-A2
><has alot of resin around connnections that I'm already pretty leary of.
Il
><start off by digging for all the hardware documentationI can find...
The documentation is great. Including just the spine of the yellow SWTCP
binder for the docset. The Computer System Addendum listed everything I
should find but it gets pretty unorganized at section 3. Out of Section
1(hardware) I'm missing a page, PIA-9 & PIA-10. I'd ask for a copy now but
I think I may have a few more to add
>Wash with alcohol, then put in dish washer to clean up the boards.
Really? It seems like microscopic moleculer soap minutia or the drying
cycle heat would try and hurt some of the ic's.
>The bulk of the SWTP hardware was hand assembled so removing the resion was
>often not done.
>
><First question: The baud lines on both busses (110,150,300,600,1200) caug
><my eye and that ad above states: "Crystal controlled oscillator( 1,7971 )
><provides the clock signal for the processor (before?) and is divided down
b
><the MC14411 (both on MP-A2 GK) to provide the various baud rate outputs
fo
><the interface circuts. Full buffering on all data and address busses..."
><Does that mean that all these cards are serial?
>
>No! They had a common baud rate generation to avoid repeating a circut
that
>generally appears on every serial card. It was one way to reduce the cost
Architected to accomodate many (just?) serial cards?
>by elimintaing redundant circutry. the transfers were via 8bit dat and
>16bit address plus a hand ful of control lines. It was compact hence the
>name SS50 for the bus.
What does the full buffering on all data and address busses mean?
I think the TOP of MP-B is the most artistic layouts I've seen
>Allison
>
>
>
- Mike: dogas(a)leading.net
