test-drb March 1999

test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org

191 participants
1003 discussions

by jpl15＠netcom.com

Well... never underestimate the efficacy of cursing loudly and throwing random things. I have discovered that the 11/44 te11 does not play well with the Cipher 880, tho I could make it do everything but actually read and write. I have discovered that there is a certain amount of 'connector ambiguity' as per usually with DEC stuff... the proper orientations were of course the last ones I tried, after mis-reading the pin numbers on the Pertec formatter twice. And wahoo! I can PIP files to and fro, and, scenes from my childhood computer dreams... I can watch the reels turning and incrementing. Too much fun! Thanks to all who have responded privately and I'm looking forward to more info here on The List or by e-mail. NOW: I have some DECUS tapes I would like to explore, but they are archived in .DSK format. I can run RT11 from within RSTS okay, but I have no idea how to un-do a .DSK. Any Help from someone here? And what a wonderful roar all this stuff makes... Cheers John

25 years, 9 months

Victory! (was: seller's market)

by jeff.kaneko＠juno.com

I can summarize this whole affair in four statements: 1. Awareness goes up, causing commercialization of an otherwise 'user-friendly' hobby 2. Prices go up, shafting the poor guy who got into this because it was a fun and inexpensive passtime. 3. These guys leave because the hobby is no longer inexpensive. 4. The {vultures|speculators} take over and pick the {carcass|hobby} clean. It may be just 'nature' but it is still an ugly sight, and it pisses me off. ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

25 years, 9 months

FREE: Vic-20

by fpp＠concentric.net

Outstanding, the money is on its way in the morning, Thanks again.

25 years, 9 months

Rebirth of IMSAI

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<Yes, but it's possible to make replacement parts for an auto engine. If <there's simply no more of a certain processor available, what do you do <besides make a replacement out of custom chips? Thats bogus as finding 8080s is not hard and in a pinch a 8085 or z80 (both more common) could be used as it's nearly as old. In practical terms a front pannel machine based on a z80 would prove a useful learning tool and prove to those that think it's cool why they are gone. ;) It doesn't have to be an altair or IMSAI clone. Th real clone question is, does one copy all of the faults and bugs or does one clean it up so that it's reliable in function? Allison

25 years, 9 months

Rebirth of IMSAI

by edick＠idcomm.com

What might make sense here is to replace the 8080 + surrounding logic with an FPGA which talks directly (or maybe with buffering) to the S-100 bus. With the right FPGA, you'd need no status latches, no bus buffers, just the FPGA. If you use your imagination, you could even make it download the FPGA >from your PC, which would also serve as the console. That way if you wanted to run it as an 8080 one day and a 6502 the next, that wouldn't be unrealistic. It might even be conceivable to do this with a SCENIX SX in the 52-pin version. You need a few pins for overhead to operate the SX, plus the 40 less the supply connections for the emulated processor. If you write your code so it operates the S-100 directly, you don't have much to worry about. The skew between port updates is negligible next to what the original part had, and you can, of course synchronize the signals by latching them at the bus interface. Now, I don't know whether I would want to do this, but as you can see . . . the possibilities are virtually endless. Dick -----Original Message----- From: Tony Duell <ard(a)p850ug1.demon.co.uk> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Sunday, March 21, 1999 8:12 PM Subject: Re: Rebirth of IMSAI >> >> On Sun, 21 Mar 1999, Tony Duell wrote: >> >it was correct if motor car museums had modern engines in all the >> >exhibits? >> >> Yes, but it's possible to make replacement parts for an auto engine. If >> there's simply no more of a certain processor available, what do you do >> besides make a replacement out of custom chips? > >That's one reason for prefering machines made from simple, standard chips :-) > >But seriously, what you _should_ do is make a replacement. Start from >the data sheet and implement it using (say) an FPGA. Document the fact >that it's in no sense original, of course, and keep the blown chip >(preferably inside the machine). > >Yes, that's a lot of work. > >However, I don't think we're talking about that. On several occasions >recently I've been asked about making a video 'recording' (either on >video tape or, more likely, on a PC) and then playing it back to a modern >monitor hidden inside the case of a classic monitor. This was to go on >show as a museum exhibit in place of having the real machine in operation. > >I was not at all amused. If I (as a small private collector) can keep >these machines running then a museum certainly should. In fact that >should be their primary aim (or possibly to keep the machines in perfect >physical condition, all original parts, but certainly not to display >fakes). If they don't have somebody who can do that, they should employ >somebody... > >It appears that some museums only care about the most trivial level of >appearance of their computers and not one bit about what's inside... > >-tony >

25 years, 9 months

11/44 9trk tape help

by jpl15＠netcom.com

Hello List! I am not having much luck trying to figure out how to use the 9trk tape device on my PDP 11/44 system. The 11/44 has a big Fuji SMD as DB0:, a TU58 I have no tape for, and either a Cipher 880 or a Kennedy 9100. The controller is a TE11 and the unit is MA0:. For purposes of this question I have hooked up the Kennedy... mainly so I can *watch* it run. ;} The OS is RSTS/E V9.7. I have no RSTS docs at all... a year ago I gave them to the guy I got this system from. :< (Hi Bruce!) I have spent some hours going over the 'help' docs, but I have no experience with 1/2" tape other than the other Cipher on my uVax II under VMS, which, notwithstanding having some doc and a lot of patient help from a number of folk, I couldn't get to copy foreign files (RT11 <-> VMS). I would just like to be able to copy files to and from the disk, and to load files from the other tapes. I have played with Initializing, Allocating, and Mounting... but I'm missing something. I have been trying to use PIP to move files, but it's been suggested that PIP don't speak Tape... I dunno. Can someone who has done this just give me the outline of how to use the 9trk? I have been reluctant so far to use the BACKUP and RESTORE facilities because I don't know any possible gotchas involved. Maybe if I can get this HD backed up to tape then I'll feel safer mucking about. Thanks in advance!! Cheers John

25 years, 9 months

S-100 prototyping boards

by edick＠idcomm.com

Actually, I used to sell an original wirewrap board which has a colander ground and power plane and a 0.100" matrix of plated through holes. That was how all my wirewrap boards were configured, so I could use whatever dip, pin-grid array, or idc connector I wanted without concerning myself with whether it would fit. Of course, back in the S-100 days one didn't have to worry about the off-grid connectors like the DA-15 or the DB25. These boards had dry-film solder mask so you could use bare-wire point-to-point wiring for layout sensitive analog circuitry, keeping it close to the low-impedance ground or Vcc plane without fear of soldering to that plane. I'll have to see if I can still find those old films. Dick -----Original Message----- From: Sergey Svishchev <svs(a)ropnet.ru> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Sunday, March 21, 1999 7:34 PM Subject: S-100 prototyping boards >On Sat, Mar 20, 1999 at 12:34:22PM -0700, Richard Erlacher wrote: > >> From what I've observed the 100-pin >> card-edge connectors are pretty common. I really don't know why, but they >> are. Every time I look at the local surplus parts house, I see those old >> connectors, in the same box they were in 20 years ago, even though the store >> has moved 3 times, with the label "S-100 Connectors, $3.95." > >And Douglas Electronics still sells S-100 prototyping boards: > ><URL:http://www.douglas.com/hardware/pcbs/breadboards/s-100.html> > >-- >Sergey Svishchev -- svs{at}ropnet{dot}ru

25 years, 9 months

Database of old computers?

by tomowad＠earthlink.net

I just purchased a Poqet PC and am working on cataloging all my computers on it so I'll have a list on hand when I go to the hamfests. Of course, I have a pretty good idea what computers are in my collection. What I really need is a database of the machines that _aren't_. Thomas Haddock's "A Guide to Personal Computers and Pocket Calculators" is an excellent reference. It gives the computers specifications, date of introduction, and a brief description of the unit. ? Usually enough information to determine if the computer is worth the purchase. Are there any references similiar to Haddock's available electronically? I'd really hate to have to retype Haddock's entire book just so I can carry it around with me... Tom Owad

25 years, 9 months

"new" classics (was Re: Pre-history of Digital Research)

by dogas＠leading.net

-----Original Message----- From: Allison J Parent <allisonp(a)world.std.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Sunday, March 21, 1999 9:47 PM Subject: Re: "new" classics (was Re: Pre-history of Digital Research) ><>Simm sockets, PLCC and other chip sockets and the z280s were socketed to ><>start with. >< ><Cool... Can I have a copy of your assembly documentation? > >Why, It's going to be a single copy wirewrap. The bulk of the docs will be >a print set to work from, maybe a wire list and software. I think you'd find some additional interest from others (me at least) for modern kits or instruction sets like those to put these kinds of things together. I might be able to follow some instructions. I know that I couldn't just assemble one like you are now doing... yet. ;) - Mike: dogas(a)leading.net

25 years, 9 months

H11 vs H11A ?

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<What does the "LTC" switch do on an H11A ? It kills the LTC interrupt (BEVENT-L). Which is more common? (H11 or H11A) Can an H11 be "upgraded" to an H11A? The upgrade is possible and trivial. the cpu board, backplane and all are unaffected. The common failing on H11s is the power supply was not all that reliable. I'd try to find a H780 and shoehorn it in. I still use a serial card from one as a serial replacement for the parallel LAV11. fair design, second rate board compared to DEC version. Allison

25 years, 9 months

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test-drb March 1999