test-drb December 1999

test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org

186 participants
742 discussions

by Innfogra＠aol.com

I have pulled quite a few of these out of machines. I believe they are SASI and control two MFM hard drives and a floppy set. The largest hard drive I have seen hooked up is the Quantum 540. Normally the floppies were DSDD 360s but I believe it would work with single density and single sided. I have no documentation. Paxton

24 years, 7 months

Tough one!!!

by mrbelles＠pittstate.edu

Alright, 1. Thanks for reading this junk posting, for that I apologize. 2. How do I unsubscribe from this list? - which address? 3. command word? -> unsubscribe classiccmp - ??? I have tried several times to unsubscribe. This list is simply swamping my mail server. Can't handle all of the messages. It's been fun reading all this stuff, you all certainly know a lot of S!@#. Just tell me how to get off the mailing list. Flame all you want...I just want off this list! Addresses tried -> listproc(a)listproc.listproc.net classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu Peace...

24 years, 7 months

DTC 520A - SASI or SCSI?

by ethan_dicks＠yahoo.com

Going through a box of disk interface cards, I ran across a couple of these DTC 520As. Cursory examination shows a 50-pin connector (J4) with two termination resistors (220/330), two 20-pin connectors (J2, J3) which are presumably analog data for two ST506 drives and two 34-pin connectors (J1 and J9). I would expect that J1 is the control cable that goes with J2 and J3. I suspect that J9 is for floppies. The major chips are two 8255s, one 8085, one DTC-037, one NEC D765, one FDC-043, one DTC MSA 2827G, an AMD P8353, and an AMD AM9517. There are several chips with the numbers covered by type- written numbers, PALs and ROMs, no doubt. There are 8 LEDs in a row by the power connector and an 8-position DIP switch.

24 years, 7 months

DTC 520A - SASI or SCSI?

by edick＠idcomm.com

Based on the names of most of the signals, I'd say the 50-pin host interface connector is for an early version of SASI or SCSI but done tenuously enough that there was margin for going with a standard when one evolved. The manual in my possession is dated January 16. 1980. They didn't have a standard then, and, in fact SCSI was still pretty much of an illusion at the time. I'd guess it's a safe bet that this one will work with SASI hardware or even with some SCSI hardware. I doubt that it will work with most state-machine-driven interface devices, since some of the signals are not present, and, frankly, this interface is far enough off the mark that it probably needs a programmed I/O sequence to handle it. Dick -----Original Message----- From: allisonp(a)world.std.com <allisonp(a)world.std.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Wednesday, December 15, 1999 7:01 AM Subject: Re: DTC 520A - SASI or SCSI? > >Ok, > >Likely that is something else. I'd expect the 34pin to be floppy and >maybe MFM hard disk. > >The 50pin could be... QIC02, QIC24 or maybe the old Hard disk interface >used for the 8" hard disks (SMD?) like the SA4000. > >!983 SCSI ws likely SASI, but many tapes and disks used a 50pin parallel >like interface back then too. > >Allison > > >On Tue, 14 Dec 1999, Ethan Dicks wrote: > >> >> Going through a box of disk interface cards, I ran across a couple of these >> DTC 520As. Cursory examination shows a 50-pin connector (J4) with two >> termination resistors (220/330), two 20-pin connectors (J2, J3) which are >> presumably analog data for two ST506 drives and two 34-pin connectors (J1 >> and J9). I would expect that J1 is the control cable that goes with J2 and >> J3. I suspect that J9 is for floppies. The major chips are two 8255s, one >> 8085, one DTC-037, one NEC D765, one FDC-043, one DTC MSA 2827G, an AMD P8353, >> and an AMD AM9517. There are several chips with the numbers covered by type- >> written numbers, PALs and ROMs, no doubt. >> >> There are 8 LEDs in a row by the power connector and an 8-position DIP switch. >> >> >From the date codes, it appears to have been made near the end of 1983. >> >> Can anyone shed any additional light on this device? Knowing what this was >> expecting to hook up to and how to set the DIP switches would be a great help. >> >> Many thanks, >> >> -ethan >> >> >> >> ===== >> Infinet has been sold. The domain is going away in February. >> Please send all replies to >> >> erd(a)iname.com >> __________________________________________________ >> Do You Yahoo!? >> Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one place. >> Yahoo! Shopping: http://shopping.yahoo.com >> >

24 years, 7 months

20mA cabling questions

by ethan_dicks＠yahoo.com

The PDP-8/L restoration continues. I have two devices to attach to my -8/L for testing - a VT220 (all have 20mA current-loop connectors) and an ASR-33. One problem: the connector on the VT220 is female and the cable coming from the ASR-33 is male. While this might not seem like a problem, it becomes one when I have to use either device from the same W076 card. Many years ago, I rigged up a working *male* cable from a W076 card for use with this VT220. It still works. I have a quick-n-dirty Switch Register->TTY test program and can emit all sorts of ASCII characters for testing. When I stick a different W076 card in the -8/L, one with a female connector, within the limitations of this particular ASR-33, all is well (the type cylinder doesn't always retract all the way, nor does the hammer always return to the proper position, but I currently suspect that the replacement rubber pad I have attached to the lever arm/hammer does not have the correct resiliency). So... my first goal is to come up with some cables that will solve my W076 problem. Is there a good 20mA primer out there? I have a basic understanding that it's all based on 12VDC loops, send and receive take four wires, but there are six coming out of the W076 card... the extra two are reader-run relay signals, obviously not needed for a VT220, but very important for the ASR-33. A) Is there a color standard for the 20mA connector cabling? I have three W076 cards with three different arrangements. B) When I make a pin-one-to-pin-one male-to-male 20mA cable, it does *not* work with the female-equipped W076 and the VT220. A few moments with a DVM show that the arrangement of a W076 and my straight-through cable do not match the pinout of my long-ago-homemade W076-to-male connector that does work with the VT220. Is there a special wiring trick for male-to-male 20mA cables? C) Somewhere, I have a small box of 20mA cables that have, IIRC, four conductors. Presumably, these are for VT52s. I have no reason to expect that they won't work with the VT220, once I find them. I take it, then, that in the "old days", one never used an ASR-33 as a tape input device except on the console interface? I'm thinking of some of the ancient distribution panels for other DEC serial cards that had EIA (RS-232) _or_ current-loop connectors. Am I missing something? Right now, because my TTY print mechanism is acting up (must press down on the type cylinder between chars, and the line-feed mechanism sticks 20% of the time) I have been testing by inserting one W076 in the backplane for paper tape reads and the other W076 in the backplane for interactive testing. Obviously, this can't go on forever. I suppose I could rig up a *really* bizarre cable that sends the output to the VT220 and takes input from the TTY. Maybe I'll just work that angle. It would save on paper. I don't have much cause to punch stuff right now, and until I get the primary box working I won't even attempt to attach my outboard 8Kw to this CPU (the eventual goal of all of this is to set up for 8K-papertape-BASIC and play Star Trek. I have all the tapes to do this, but I do have to replace the floating-point tape that tore the last time I loaded it (a long, sliver of a tear, not a perpendicular, parting tear). I still know next to nothing about the pr/s01 except that it is *not* 110 baud. Another one of my ancient projects is to replace the M452 variable clock module with a home-made digital baudrate generator. I suppose I'd have to wire a switch on the backplane as well to select the M706/M707 from two stop bits to one when the baud rate was 150 or higher, but I have a prototype module and I have the COM 8116 clock chip and I have the proper crystal to drive it. What remains (besides sitting down and finally *making* it) is to decide if I want to build in the ability to drive transmit and receive at different rates as was common with VT52s. I could receive at 150 or 300 baud and transmit as fast as possible, perhaps 9600 (I'd have to look into the M706/M707 designs to even hazard a guess, but even 150/2400 is an improvement). The goal would be to be able to use the pr/s01 with a TTL -8. -ethan ===== Infinet has been sold. The domain is going away in February. Please send all replies to erd(a)iname.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one place. Yahoo! Shopping: http://shopping.yahoo.com

24 years, 7 months

IBM 4216-020 printers?

by jott＠saturn.ee.nd.edu

Hello - I have 2 LaserPrinter Font Cards (p/n 1255806) you may have for shipping if they'll work. Typeface Pitch Point FGID Orator Bold 6.5 18 435 Orator Bold 8.1 16 434 Orator 10 14 005 john In-Reply-To: <19991214201001.B25956(a)mrbill.net>; from mrbill(a)mrbill.net on Tue, Dec 14, 1999 at 08:10:01PM -0600 On Tue, Dec 14, 1999 at 08:10:01PM -0600, Bill Bradford wrote: > Anybody know anything about these? I just picked up six of them for > $25 , with two fuser units and no toner carts, and a "4216 Personal > Pageprinter Technical Reference". Five of the printers have a strange > 15-pin D-sub connector that resembles an AUI or PC joystick port, with > a set of DIP switches beside it. The sixth has normal serial/parallel > interface connectors. None of these printers have ever been used; some > are still in the original plastic "bag" wrappings. They date from around > 1988. > > My question is - whats the strange 15-pin interface, and do I have any > chance of hooking it to a PC or similar machine ? I got these so cheap > because the guy who had them was going to toss them, and I hate to see > stuff get tossed. Hopefully they'll turn into something useful. > > Thanks. > > Bill > > -- > Bill Bradford * mrbill(a)mrbill.net / http://www.mrbill.net > mrbill(a)sunhelp.org / http://www.sunhelp.org > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > "Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to using > Windows NT for mission-critical applications." > -- What Yoda *meant* to say -- *********************************************************************** * John Ott * Email: jott(a)saturn.ee.nd.edu * * Dept. Electrical Engineering * * * 275 Fitzpatrick Hall * * * University of Notre Dame * Phone: (219) 631-7752 * * Notre Dame, IN 46556 USA * * ***********************************************************************

24 years, 7 months

OT: Bill Gates

by rigdonj＠intellistar.net

Bill Gates dies and is at the pearly gates talking with Saint Peter. Saint Peter says, "Bill, you've done some wonderful things in your life and have earned the right to choose where you'll spend the rest of eternity. You can choose between Heaven or Hell, but choose wisely." Bill looks over Saint Peter's shoulder between the pearly gates and sees nothing but a lush green meadow. Deciding to heed Saint Peter's words, Bill asks if he could take a look at Hell. Saint Peter agrees and sends Bill to Hell. The Devil greets Bill at the gates of Hell and he is immediately taken aback. Much to his surprise, there's one heck of a party going on. People are dancing, the alcohol is flowing, music is non-stop and everyone is having a blast. Bill returns to Heaven to again discuss his decision with Saint Peter. He again looks over Saint Peter's shoulder and sees only a lush green meadow. Bill says to Saint Peter, "I've put a lot of thought into this decision and it may sound foolish, but I'd like to spend the rest of eternity in Hell." Saint Peter fulfills Bill's request and returns him to Hell. When Bill gets back to Hell there's been a big change. People are writhing in agony, flames are burning, moans of pain and despair are everywhere. Bill, being quite shocked at the sight asks the Devil, "What happened?? I was just down here a little while ago and everyone was having a great time!" The Devil says, "Oh that... That was just the demo!"

24 years, 7 months

20mA cabling questions

by truthanl＠oclc.org

Ethan, The 20 ma current loop is not always 12 Volt loops - its 20 ma Loops. I have the IBM tech ref for the IBM PC Asynch Port which shows one Cuurent Loop interface implemented on 25 pin D-shell pins 9,11, 18 & 25. (Only when an option jumper block selects current loop.) For Xmit they have 8250 (ttl) S-OUT buffered through an LS125. The LS125 output "fans out" feeding both the RS-232 driver as well as three 7406 inverters in parallel for "ample" 20ma drive. In series beyond the three || 7406 inverters is a 100 ohm resistor routed to pin 11 labelled " - xmit CL out". Pin 9 labelled "+ xmit CL ret" is pulled high to 5V through a 49.9 Ohm resistor. For RX they show an opto coupler, a 20 ma diode anode tied to pin 18 labelled "+ RCV CL data. Its cathode is tied to pin 25, labelled "-RCV CL ret". The switching transistor of the opto coupler drives the input (Low)on an LS04 inverter which is routed through jumper selection to "serial in" (SIN)on the 8250. So you need to determine if your third CL pair drives, or reads, the "reader" relays. Each pair is either a source or a sink for current. Another good source for reference on computer controls interfacing is a Burr- Brown publication called "The Handbook of Personal Computer Instrumentation" I have a spare Fourth edition Published in 1989. Stop by OCLC and pick it up. Sincerely Larry Truthan -----Original Message----- From: Ethan Dicks [mailto:ethan_dicks@yahoo.com] Sent: Wednesday, December 15, 1999 2:03 AM To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Subject: 20mA cabling questions The PDP-8/L restoration continues. I have two devices to attach to my -8/L for testing - a VT220 (all have 20mA current-loop connectors) and an ASR-33. One problem: the connector on the VT220 is female and the cable coming from the ASR-33 is male. While this might not seem like a problem, it becomes one when I have to use either device from the same W076 card. Many years ago, I rigged up a working *male* cable from a W076 card for use with this VT220. It still works. I have a quick-n-dirty Switch Register->TTY test program and can emit all sorts of ASCII characters for testing. When I stick a different W076 card in the -8/L, one with a female connector, within the limitations of this particular ASR-33, all is well (the type cylinder doesn't always retract all the way, nor does the hammer always return to the proper position, but I currently suspect that the replacement rubber pad I have attached to the lever arm/hammer does not have the correct resiliency). So... my first goal is to come up with some cables that will solve my W076 problem. Is there a good 20mA primer out there? I have a basic understanding that it's all based on 12VDC loops, send and receive take four wires, but there are six coming out of the W076 card... the extra two are reader-run relay signals, obviously not needed for a VT220, but very important for the ASR-33. A) Is there a color standard for the 20mA connector cabling? I have three W076 cards with three different arrangements. B) When I make a pin-one-to-pin-one male-to-male 20mA cable, it does *not* work with the female-equipped W076 and the VT220. A few moments with a DVM show that the arrangement of a W076 and my straight-through cable do not match the pinout of my long-ago-homemade W076-to-male connector that does work with the VT220. Is there a special wiring trick for male-to-male 20mA cables? C) Somewhere, I have a small box of 20mA cables that have, IIRC, four conductors. Presumably, these are for VT52s. I have no reason to expect that they won't work with the VT220, once I find them. I take it, then, that in the "old days", one never used an ASR-33 as a tape input device except on the console interface? I'm thinking of some of the ancient distribution panels for other DEC serial cards that had EIA (RS-232) _or_ current-loop connectors. Am I missing something? Right now, because my TTY print mechanism is acting up (must press down on the type cylinder between chars, and the line-feed mechanism sticks 20% of the time) I have been testing by inserting one W076 in the backplane for paper tape reads and the other W076 in the backplane for interactive testing. Obviously, this can't go on forever. I suppose I could rig up a *really* bizarre cable that sends the output to the VT220 and takes input from the TTY. Maybe I'll just work that angle. It would save on paper. I don't have much cause to punch stuff right now, and until I get the primary box working I won't even attempt to attach my outboard 8Kw to this CPU (the eventual goal of all of this is to set up for 8K-papertape-BASIC and play Star Trek. I have all the tapes to do this, but I do have to replace the floating-point tape that tore the last time I loaded it (a long, sliver of a tear, not a perpendicular, parting tear). I still know next to nothing about the pr/s01 except that it is *not* 110 baud. Another one of my ancient projects is to replace the M452 variable clock module with a home-made digital baudrate generator. I suppose I'd have to wire a switch on the backplane as well to select the M706/M707 from two stop bits to one when the baud rate was 150 or higher, but I have a prototype module and I have the COM 8116 clock chip and I have the proper crystal to drive it. What remains (besides sitting down and finally *making* it) is to decide if I want to build in the ability to drive transmit and receive at different rates as was common with VT52s. I could receive at 150 or 300 baud and transmit as fast as possible, perhaps 9600 (I'd have to look into the M706/M707 designs to even hazard a guess, but even 150/2400 is an improvement). The goal would be to be able to use the pr/s01 with a TTL -8. -ethan ===== Infinet has been sold. The domain is going away in February. Please send all replies to erd(a)iname.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one place. Yahoo! Shopping: http://shopping.yahoo.com

24 years, 7 months

serial console on VAXstation II/GPX? And backup question.

by eric＠brouhaha.com

I'm probably overlooking something terribly obvious, but is there some way to make a VAXstation II/GPX use the console SLU rather than the VCB02 graphics system, short of pulling the VCB02 cards? And if I do that, will VMS also use the SLU for the console? I'd like to make an image backup of the RD54 in the machine, since I need to wipe it to install NetBSD. Does anyone have any suggestions about the best way to go about that? AFAIK the TK50 drive in the machine probably works, and I do have some tapes. I could probably fumble my way through making some sort of backup, but then I wouldn't know how to restore it later. Or, if anyone has a spare RD54, then I wouldn't *need* to wipe the disk. :-) Thanks! Eric

24 years, 7 months

Qbus slot ordering?

by CLASSICCMP＠trailing-edge.com

>Does anyone know if the CONFIGURE command in the VAX prom suggests slot >ordering in its output? No, it doesn't. The order of CSR's doesn't have any bearing with what cards go where in the backplane. The order of cards in the backplane will depend on interrupt and DMA priority. Generally, peripherals that *will* lose data if they can't get serviced in time get put closest to the CPU. Examples here are serial lines, etc. Next come peripherals that will have to do a retry if they don't get serviced in time, but they will be able to do a retry. Tape drives, for example, might come here. Finally come devices where there's no real penalty for a retry, and maybe the peripheral doesn't care at all if the CPU takes its own sweet time in dealing with it. Something like a real-time clock would come in this category. >I ask because I'm trying to configure my uVAX with an additional 4 serial >lines using either a DHV11 (get an extra 4) or a DZV11. In the former case >no matter how I type in the devices, it organizes the DHV11 as the last >thing on the bus. When I type use the DZV11 it puts it at the head of the >list (even ahead of the DELQA which seems unusual) What you're seeing there are the CSR autoconfigure rules in action. They're largely historical; the DZV11 is based on the DZ11, which is an "old-time" async multiplexer, and comes early in the autoconfigure rules. The DHV11 came many years later, and comes much later in the autoconfigure rules. If you're interested in knowing where the autoconfigure rules come from and how they're applied, take a look at Alan Frisbie's DECUS presentation at http://metalab.unc.edu/pub/academic/computer-science/history/pdp-11/hardwar… -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927

24 years, 7 months

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test-drb December 1999