test-drb November 1999

test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org

211 participants
749 discussions

by Glenatacme＠aol.com

Someone wrote: > >stuff to get it working. Those were the days and I kind of miss it. > >Those golden days were great. That got me to think if there was a way to > >hook up a tape player (cassette) to an IBMPC to mimick it. Has anyone > >tried this..... Zane replied: > Wait a minute.... How do people read stuff like VIC-20 cassette tapes into > the computer to use in emulators? That's what you need to look into if you > want to try something like this. Speaking for the Timex/Sinclair community, most of us use sound-card utilities whereby we can load or save programs and/or data using a cassette recorder. For the zx81, there is actually a utility which sends an audio signal out the PC's parallel port, to be directly loaded into a zx81 or saved on tape for use later. If you wish, I could direct you to the authors of these utilities -- one of them may be interested in helping you solve this problem. Regards, Glen Goodwin 0/0

25 years

Obsolete media (was: Whats the screwiest thing you collect?)

by edick＠idcomm.com

It's no secret that Roger Merchberger <zmerch(a)30below.com previously has uttered: -----Original Message----- From: Roger Merchberger <zmerch(a)30below.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Tuesday, November 30, 1999 9:44 PM Subject: Re: Obsolete media (was: Whats the screwiest thing you collect?) >Rumor has it that Richard Erlacher may have mentioned these words: > >>Our local government facilities offer 8200 format to whoever asks for it, >>but they never offered 6250 BPI in the bureaus I occasionally visited. > >We sent off 6250dpi tapes quite often... I suppose it's a regional thing. > >>The 8500 has twice the capacity of >>the 8200 and the 8500C and 8505 have twice that. > >On the 8505 / 8500C - your doubled capacity depends on the compression >ratio... if you achieve a 2:1 compression, you have indeed doubled your >storage. On the 8505's I worked on, I normally achieved 1.7:1. > >> Currently used 8mm drives >>have twice what they have and the newer ones not only have doubled that on a >>112 meter tape, but quadrupled the transfer rates at the same time. Now, >>the tape drives I see them using hold nearly 60 GB all on a cartridge of >>which two will fit in your shirt pocket if you're not as fat as the average >>American. > >Well, that limits me to one... assuming that I'm as fat as an average >American... (how fat is the average American???) Anywho, I'm ~25lb >overweight thanks to 2 heart attacks & I've not made time to exercise. Is >that average? YES >>Now, wouldn't YOU rather carry a $5 cartridge in you shirt pocket rather >>than 15 9-track reels, and how about buying them and storing them? > >Actually, between the two, I'd rather have the 15 9-trackers... they're >cool. Of course, I'd rather have 3490 cartridges & drive... they're even >more cool. I can't *afford* the drives (new) and there's no used ones about >to scavange / rescue / trade for, so 'll take what I can get... > >I'm not disputing the fact that the 8200's are superior / cheaper / >whatever... I've worked with those, the 8505's pretty extensively & quite a >few 4mm drives as well (just picked one up for myself to play with - it's a >tra de...) I just disputed that an 8200 cart. held a "truckload" of 9-trackers. I was, when I made the original remark, grossly hyperbolizing, but in the spirit of "Why the h*ll didn't they do that much sooner?" My 8505XL routinely gets about the 1.7x compression from hardware compression and somewhat improves the already-compressed data it gets from the old backup software. One volume, mostly text, gets bout 2.2x, though. My 160 meter tapes are adequate for a nominally 15GB system backup. I find that so long as I (or my clients) have backup devices which allow the entire backup set to be recorded on a single element of the medium in question, they have good backups whenever they're needed. With the ones requiring manual media shuffling, all bets are off. Dick >Prost, >Roger "Merch" Merchberger >-- >Roger "Merch" Merchberger --- sysadmin, Iceberg Computers >Recycling is good, right??? Ok, so I'll recycle an old .sig. > >If at first you don't succeed, nuclear warhead >disarmament should *not* be your first career choice.

25 years

Teleco Question...

by edick＠idcomm.com

There's actually a more precise spec for the tip and ring voltages. If you really want it, I can look up my old textbooks and give it to you, but first of all, the tip-ring (battery) voltage is -48 volts, where tip is close to ground. The ring voltage is a somewhat larger AC voltage, normally at about 20 Hz centered about RING such that there's about an 80-volt positive going pulse with respect to tip, but symmetical about RING. The actual voltage can vary quite a bit, but at the ends, where it enters your house, tip is AC referenced to earth. That's probably enough info for most purposes. IIRC, the off-hook AC signal (speech) is about 4-8 volts into 600 ohms. That's not terribly precise, but if you need better, I can dig out some references. Dick -----Original Message----- From: Daniel T. Burrows <dburrows(a)netpath.net> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Tuesday, November 30, 1999 9:21 PM Subject: Re: Teleco Question... > > >Q1: Can anyone tell me the two tone that make up dial tone? >330 and 440 IIRC >Dan >Q2: What's the ring voltage (p-p) and frequency? 90Vpp? 10cyc? >90v 20 hz >Q3: What's the off hook and on hook line Voltage? 9VDC and 45VDC? >about right IIRC > >Dan >

25 years

VAXstation vs MicroVAX (was Re: dammit...)

by ethan_dicks＠yahoo.com

--- Jim Strickland <jim(a)calico.litterbox.com> wrote: > There are some substantial disadvantages to the 2000s. The biggest is they > want MFM disks, which are hard to find these days. 3100s are SCSI machines. And, MFM drives never got above ~150Mb. I have several RD54's just to keep my MV2000's alive. > Er. Let me qualify that and say VaxStation 2000s want MFM drives. Don't > know about MicroVax 2000s. Same thing. The hardware internally is identical. The difference is a jumper to tell the hardware whether to use the framebuffer or not. From an OS standpoint, moving the jumper gives a different model number, IIRC. (KA-610 vs KA-630 or something like that, I forget the exact numbers). The idea was that a VAX*station* would have a primary user and would only get a two user license (one for the serial port on the back, presumably for emergencies) and a MicroVAX 2000 would have many users, possibly on the rare and optional 8-port serial expansion, possibly on a terminal server. This way, you could get more money for the same software on the assumption that more potential users means more latitude to charge for software. -ethan ===== Infinet has been sold. The domain is going away in February. Please send all replies to erd(a)iname.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one place. Yahoo! Shopping: http://shopping.yahoo.com

25 years

Teleco Question...

by dburrows＠netpath.net

Q1: Can anyone tell me the two tone that make up dial tone? 330 and 440 IIRC Dan Q2: What's the ring voltage (p-p) and frequency? 90Vpp? 10cyc? 90v 20 hz Q3: What's the off hook and on hook line Voltage? 9VDC and 45VDC? about right IIRC Dan

25 years

VAXstation 3100 history (Was ... different)

by sms＠antinode.org

From: Tim Shoppa shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com > >Didn't the very first 3100's have MFM controllers? I could have sworn that > >I've heard that they did, but I've never seen such a beast. > Yes, the first 3100's had MFM controllers, and half-height MFM drives > (RD31, RD32) in them. They also had a 34-pin floppy interface to a > non-SCSI RX23. Then came models that had *both* MFM and SCSI interfaces. > The latest ones had two SCSI interfaces, and used a SCSI-fied RX23 in > them. I've never seen anything more primitive than the ST506/SCSI controller. Was there really a non-SCSI board before that? Even the earliest production ST506/SCSI boards in my experience lacked some or all of the 20- and 34-pin connectors for the ST506 disks, but after I added the connectors, I got an RD54 to work with one (for entertainment only). The TEST 7x formatter looked to be on a multi-day jaunt when I aborted it, but otherwise it was swell. Later, I found some (presumably later production) ST506/SCSI boards which were missing a few 8-pin DIP IC's and a few passive parts, no doubt saving a few dollars, but leaving only the floppy interface intact. The potential of DUA0 and DUA1 explains why the RX23 floppy is DUA2. I always assumed that DUA3 would be the other half of an RX50, if it were ever supported, but that was only an assumption. The firmware on my 3100 systems seemed bewildered by an RX33, so I never bothered trying an RX50. > True, the RX23 doesn't have a lot of use. You can't even (officially) > build a standalone backup kit on it. I modified the V6.2 STABACKIT to build a kit on (three) RX23 floppies, but some older firmware couldn't handle booting from them. V1.5 is good, possibly V1.4 also, as I recall. Faster booting than from a TK50. (Toggle switches would be _about_ as fast as a TK50.) And speaking of TK50, for the record, the external SCSI version is a TK50Z-FA (approved for the VAXstation/MicroVAX 2000) or a TK50Z-GA (newer firmware, external SCSI ID switch). I tried a -FA on a VAX 4200 with a KZQSA SCSI board long ago, and I use one on my VAXsta 3138 now, and have never had a problem. Has anyone actually had a problem using a -FA in a modern environment? (That's "modern" compared to a 2000, of course.) As for the smallest VAX, I'd vote for the VAXstation 3100 (model 38, WS42-xx, is faster than the original model 30, VS42-xx), as the smallest, practical, bargain system. A minimal 2000 is smaller, but add an external disk drive and the 2000 is bigger, and any 3100 with even one decent SCSI disk beats it easily for storage and speed. (It's not hard to beat two RD54 drives, unless all you have is RD53 drives.) Herr Moeller's PK2K SCSI port driver for the 2000 should help total storage, but the firmware still needs an RDxx from which to boot (or an RX33 for Standalone BACKUP). The 3100 permits more memory and better graphics, too. I'm not throwing away my 2000, but I wouldn't start with one today, unless it fell on me (as my first one did). ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Steven M. Schweda (+1) 651-645-9249 (voice, home) 1630 Marshall Avenue #8 (+1) 612-754-2636 (voice, work) Saint Paul MN 55104-6225 (+1) 612-754-6302 (facsimile, work) sms(a)antinode.org sms(a)provis.com (work)

25 years

dammit...

by allisonp＠world.std.com

<Didn't the very first 3100's have MFM controllers? I could have sworn tha <I've heard that they did, but I've never seen such a beast. Yes they did... SCSI to MFM bridges. <One with a TLZ30 (Tape drive for TK50's) or a CD-ROM would be nice. Mine <has the RX23, and I quite honestly have no idea what use the floppy drive <is. Well a SCSI Cdrom is easy enough to find all it has to do is support variable length block sizes, many do. TK50GAs (or is it FZs) work with them too as do TLZ04s, a slew of DLTs and SCSI tapes. Allison

25 years

Obsolete media (was: Whats the screwiest thing you collect?)

by edick＠idcomm.com

Some years back, the GOV switched from 9-track to 8mm, using the Exabyte 8200 as its standard. This was because you could hold what was formerly stored on a truckload of 9-track tape on a single cartridge which would fit in your pocket. Since the GOV also loved DEC, I'd be very surprised to learn that there's no practical implementation available of the EXB8200 on a DEC machine. These drives are simple SCSI-1 and should work like any other tape drive. There are probably some special hoops, DEC-isms, you have to jump through in order to get it all to work, but I'll bet it's been done. Those 8mm cartridges, BTW, cost less than almost any other medium. There are larger-capacity drives, e.g. Exabyte 8205, 8500, 8500C, 8505, all of which are SCSI-II, which have faster transfer rates and, in the case of th 8505xl, 8505, and 8500C, not to mention the libraries which host one or more of these drives, they support hardware compression as well. Dick -----Original Message----- From: Megan <mbg(a)world.std.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Sunday, November 28, 1999 12:28 PM Subject: Re: Obsolete media (was: Whats the screwiest thing you collect?) > >>IMHO, it makes little sense to retain media for washing-machine-sized >>disk drives if you don't retain the drives and maintain them in order to >>retain the value of the media. Hindsight is always 20/20, but wouldn't >>it make sense to archive data/software on an archival medium, likely, we >>hope, to remain useable over time, rather than to store it on what's >>intended for on-line storage, and is likely to become obsolete within a >>couple of years of when it was developed? > >Unless there is no equivalent... I've got the exact problem with the >DECsystem-10 I got earlier this year... it came with two RP06 drives. >They are 3-phase drives. We don't yet have three phase power (or a >close approximation of it), so cannot run the drives. Without the >drives, we cannot even load the microcode for the machine, so it is >a very large paper-weight. > >I've been looking of a non-three-phase replacement for the drives, but >we still would need three-phase to get the data off the disks I have. > >We have, however, been getting all the data off the tapes so as not >to lose it. > >It would be great if there was a massbus interface for a more recent >tape drive, and the same for a disk... it would be neat to be able to >have a DAT tape acting like a TU77 or something supported by the machine, >and a couple of SCSI or even IDE disks acting as RM03 or RP06 disks... > >(anyone know of any? Anyone up for the challenge of designing one?) > > Megan Gentry > Former RT-11 Developer > >+--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ >| Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | >| Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | >| Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | >| 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | >| Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | >| (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | >+--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ > > >

25 years

dammit...

by CLASSICCMP＠trailing-edge.com

><Didn't the very first 3100's have MFM controllers? I could have sworn tha ><I've heard that they did, but I've never seen such a beast. > >Yes they did... SCSI to MFM bridges. My 3100's with MFM drive connectors inside them *do not* have a SCSI to MFM bridge controller. If you hook up a RD32, it shows up to VMS as DUA0:, not as a SCSI device. -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927

25 years

LET'S RESOLVE THIS ISSUE was (Re: Made a deal to get a Vax 6000,2 Fujitsu Supercomputers and TOPS10???)

by edick＠idcomm.com

This is starting to resemble an argument for putting things on eBay before scrapping them. If they're priceless, then someone will at least attempt to buy them for somewhat less than that implies. If nobody wants 'em badly enough to pay the packing, shipping, and associated costs, plus the scrap value then, since it's too late to leave 'em inthe scrapyard, they need to be disposed of in some way, don't they? Dick -----Original Message----- From: Rodrigo Ventura <yoda(a)isr.ist.utl.pt> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Thursday, November 25, 1999 2:00 AM Subject: Re: LET'S RESOLVE THIS ISSUE was (Re: Made a deal to get a Vax 6000,2 Fujitsu Supercomputers and TOPS10???) > > You sound like someone who burns paintings just because you >don't have space to store them, regardless from being priceless >Picasso's... It's not very hard to understand the following facts: > - the majority of this list subscribers are collectors, which >means that they like collecting certain stuff. > - everyone understands the difference between "storing" and >"collecting". It's impossible to prevent all minis from the planet >from being destroyed -- store all obsolete minis. However, collectors >are available to save a necessarily small percentage from destruction, >by collecting them. They do this because they *love* it. > - the average storage capacity of collectors is usually not >very high. Not everyone is able to own a VAX, and those who are, can't >hold more than 1-2 of such machines. Now compare this storage capacity >with the rate you get minis (you said about 40-50 a year). > - you can't expect to come here saying "I crush 40 minis a >year" without people becoming upset. I guess it breaks the heart of >every collector (at least it breaks mine...). > > Cheers, > > >-- > >*** Rodrigo Martins de Matos Ventura <yoda(a)isr.ist.utl.pt> >*** Web page: http://www.isr.ist.utl.pt/~yoda >*** Teaching Assistant and MSc Student at ISR: >*** Instituto de Sistemas e Robotica, Polo de Lisboa >*** Instituto Superior Tecnico, Lisboa, PORTUGAL >*** PGP fingerprint = 0119 AD13 9EEE 264A 3F10 31D3 89B3 C6C4 60C6 4585

25 years

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test-drb November 1999