At 04:37 PM 8/13/98 -0700, you wrote:
>On Thu, 13 Aug 1998, the thread continued:
>
>> >Guess I'm sitting on a fortune with my 5 Altairs, but I'd never sell them
>> >(and I mean that, whereas Jim used to say he'd never sell his either).
>>
>> Ah... but you make an incorrect assumption... I still have all of my
>> Altairs.
>>
>> (dontcha just love a good mystery?)
>
>Aha! So what was your commission? ;)
>
>Sam Alternate e-mail:
dastar(a)siconic.com
Better than I expected since it cleared the reserve (by a fair bit)... It
should pay for my trip down to VCF II. B^}
-jim
---
jimw(a)agora.rdrop.com
The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw
Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174
At 01:21 PM 8/13/98 -0500, you wrote:
>> I can't put my finger on exactly why, but I find myself extremely
>> depressed by this. Does anyone know (personally) the fellow who put in
>> the high bid? Will the Altair be something of inherent value to him,
>> or is it simply an investment?
>
>I haven't looked at the URL but I'm sure I don't know anyone involved.
>
>It IS depressing, isn't it? I've been thinking about this aspect of computer
>collecting for a while. Someone on alt.folklore.computers said that he had
>verified the authenticity of an Apple I system (complete with original cover
>letter receipt signed by Steve Jobs, etc.) just before it was shipped across
>the country to a new buyer.
I'll tell you why it's depressing. We had such a good thing going-- the
whole
world was (is) dominated by the PeeCee, nobody but us *real* hobbyists cared
about the interesting "old" stuff. It was a *real* hobby-- anyone with a
*couple* (meaning two) of dollars could get into the act.
ALl you needed to have some truly interesting stuff was a voltmeter, a
terminal,
and just a little luck.
Well, kiddies, the party's over. "Investment Grade" antique technology is
here to stay, it seems. Well I'll tell you what, guys. They can *have* it.
I'll have nothing more to do with "Investment Grade" computers. One
experience
was enough to show me the level of perversion that can be attained with this
mindset.
>As I drooled over this, I realized that it's an extremely desirable thing to
>have (and this one in particular sounded rare) but the economics are just too
>warped. There are only a handful of these machines, right? And they just
>change hands and the prices go up. Also, it may be desirable to have, but
not
>to USE. The RAM is expandable to almost 64K (though I've never heard of this
>being done) but there's only one slot and the only card built for it was a
>cassette interface. The display is slow because it uses a shift register.
Yeah, it wasn't that great of a machine, even in it's own time (although, of
course, quite historic). But such was the lot of the hobbyist at the time.
>I'm just too practical, I guess. I believe in collecting things to use them/
>have fun with them, and the rarity of the Apple I is at odds with this goal.
>I too have to wonder at the motives of the buyer of this Altair.
It's all a matter of goals and priorities. There are goals that will
produce a
productive outcome if reached, and there are some that will produce a bad
outcome.
This is a good hobby, because even schoolkids withoout alot of money can
enjoy
the 'rush' of putting an old system together and running it (something *I*
couldn't
do when I was a kid).
But when it becomes a hobby for the rich, upper classes-- as many of the
'traditional'
hobbies have become-- then something will be irrevocably lost. Hopefully, we
are still a decade or so away from the complete commercialization of our
hobby.
I can't bear the though of the classic computer going the way of the
baseball card,
and the comic book . . .
>There IS the possibility that this is an elaborate "sour grapes" argument,
>given that I have neither an Apple I nor an Altair. :)
And what I'm saying is that you don't need them to enjoy the hobby. In
fact, I'm
convinced now that having *anything* that's considered 'Investment Grade'
would
*preclude* you from experiencing the enjoyment factor. Our Pre-PC heritage
is so
vast and diverse, there literally must be something (else) out there for
everyobody.
Jeff
*FOR SALE*
Slightly used SOAPBOX.
Used only once to annoy
computer geeks online.
> My hat stays frontwards. Internet Exploiter 3.2 and Mess-Mail, or
> Internet Exploder 4.0 with Overlook Expired, either take up so much
> room that I won't take the blame when something doesn't work --
> especially since you don't even have room for swap space. (Don't
> try to tell me that 80Mb of RAM stops Windows from swapping -- I
> thought that from the the original "specifications". NOT!)
It's NOT that Windows won't work, I can't FIT anything on the HD. It's
ONLY 100MB, and Windows takes up 90-some, and the rest by MS-Mail, and IE
3.02. Leaving a total of about 5 MEG.
--
-Jason
(roblwill(a)usaor.net)
ICQ#-1730318
PS>> just forget about your hat.
Guys:
I realize that this question has probly been raised before,
but I'll ask, as I cannot seem to find the answer. I have a
lead on a MicroVAX 3100-30, that I can get for what I *think*
is a pretty reasonable price. But before I dive into this,
I need to know:
1. What is the difference between a MicroVAX, VaxStation, and a
VaxServer?
2. How desirable are these 3100-30's? That is, is there software
available, or are there any undesirable traits-- e.g. hard
to upgrade, can only hold xx amout of RAM, etc?
3. What kind of display does this use? CRT/Keyboard, or terminal?
4. How do I tell the disk size, memory size, etc?
5. What would be a 'reasonable' price (just a ballpark figure,
I don't wanna spend $500 on a box that could be had elsewhere
for $50).
6. Anthing else I should know before committing time/money?
Jeff
| -----Original Message-----
| From: Doug Yowza [mailto:yowza@yowza.com]
| Sent: Thursday, August 13, 1998 2:17 PM
| To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
| Subject: Re: Who Bought It (RE: Altair prices)
|
| A babe with an Altair. I'm in love :-)
|
| -- Doug
You obviously didn't read her FAQ :)
Kai
Are you single?
-In the sense that I'm not married, yes. But I am taken. See Eric's home
page.
Will you go out with me?
-No.
Will you send me dirty email?
-No.
Will you post nude pictures of yourself?
-No.
Do you find horny geek questions like this really annoying?
-How could you guess?
< And not even original MITS memory to go with it! Now if it had a
< working (!) 4K dynamic MITS RAM board I would be impressed. That was a
< truly rare commodity, because of design flaws the memory usually didn't
< (remember, that is).
< Jack Peacock
So true. A working one was memorable. At one point I have 3 ea of the
88mcd-4k and 88s4k and neither were much fun save for mine were modified
to use UPD410 (static ram) that had the same pinout as the 4060. Those
actually worked!
Allison
Hmm, I guess that means either:
1) You sold a friend's Altair on their behalf; or
2) You bid on it yourself?
By the way, ya still owe me that ROM board, ya big lug! :)
Kai
-----Original Message-----
From: James Willing [mailto:jimw@agora.rdrop.com]
Sent: Thursday, August 13, 1998 3:01 PM
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
Subject: RE: Altair prices
At 12:44 PM 8/13/98 -0700, you wrote:
>Geez, I'll bet our own Jim Willing is pretty disappointed that his only
sold
>for $4213.
>
>http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=24405966
>
>What the heck is with that? Two Altairs auctioned simultaneously, with a
3x
>price differential.
>
>Guess I'm sitting on a fortune with my 5 Altairs, but I'd never sell them
>(and I mean that, whereas Jim used to say he'd never sell his either).
>
>Kai
Ah... but you make an incorrect assumption... I still have all of my
Altairs.
(dontcha just love a good mystery?)
-jim
---
jimw(a)agora.rdrop.com
The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw
Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174
I can't vouch for the young lady personally, but she is a fairly decent
author. I have one (maybe two) of her HTML books around here somewhere.
Cliff Gregory
cgregory(a)lrbcg.com
-----Original Message-----
From: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
To: Cgregory <Cgregory>
Date: Thursday, August 13, 1998 6:25 PM
Subject: RE: Who Bought It (RE: Altair prices)
>
>| -----Original Message-----
>| From: Doug Yowza [mailto:yowza@yowza.com]
>| Sent: Thursday, August 13, 1998 2:17 PM
>| To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
>| Subject: Re: Who Bought It (RE: Altair prices)
>|
>| A babe with an Altair. I'm in love :-)
>|
>| -- Doug
>
>You obviously didn't read her FAQ :)
>
>Kai
>
>
>
>Are you single?
>-In the sense that I'm not married, yes. But I am taken. See Eric's home
>page.
>
>Will you go out with me?
>-No.
>
>Will you send me dirty email?
>-No.
>
>Will you post nude pictures of yourself?
>-No.
>
>Do you find horny geek questions like this really annoying?
>-How could you guess?
>But did she actually buy it? She placed her bid 6 mins before the
close of the auction when the high bid was only $3000. Right at
the end of the action, someone else placed a $12000 bid forcing
her bid to $12100 and the reserve still hadn't been met!
In casinos it is a common practice to have employees sit at card tables
and play conservatively to fill out the card table till enough regular
players are seated. This is so the games (usually poker) can continue
if there aren't enough real players to make it interesting. This is a
legal practice (here in Nevada) but their playing is limited and they
must leave the table as soon as enough players are there.
They are called "shills".
There is also a type of shill in auctions. They are usually friends of
the auctioneer and are briefed beforehand to make a minimum bid on
certain items, to ensure the item does not go for too low a price. The
auctioneer doesn't sell to the shill, just puts it back for another day.
In this case the legality is dubious. Caveat Emptor, it appears shills
are at work on E-bay (I'm shocked, shocked to discover price rigging!)
Jack Peacock
>That's a 600% increase from the last batch, and even beats the last Apple
>1 sale I know of.
What have the Apple I's been going for?
--
Sysop of Caesarville Online
Client software at: <http://home.earthlink.net/~tomowad/>
