< ObCC: Supposedly, MITS came out with a hobbyist machine a couple of year
< before the Altair called the MITS 816. I haven't found much info about
< it. Is it real?
The only prior products to the altair were a hand calc (several) and also
some hobbiest telemetry bits. If there was another computer it was a
maybe to compete in the MARK-8 realm (8008 based).
In the 8008 realm there were several companies that predate MITS. There
used to be a company here in MA called Control Logic I think that had
their "L series" modules that were 8008 based.
Personally I view collecting Altairs to wine... altair was the first lot
produced by a particular vintor. It was as drinkable as hog urine but,
it was their first and the vintor would become famous and fail making
that first lot scarce and "collectable".
Most of the early altairs had to be hacked (required) to make them work.
They are now shelf addornments and should be held up as an example of
how not to do it. I'm being serious. Anyone that wants a S100 front
pannel box to actually run would do far better with an IMSAI, Ithica
Intersystems, or several others. Most however learn the first thing
with these is that once you have it running the first code you want is
a terminal keyboard monitor as replacement switches are a few bucks each
and the originals are getting poor. Also toggling in 25 or 50 bytes every
power up or crash gets tiring. I say this as someone that lived with the
MITS ACR (sill have the analog board for one) where you toggle
in a 33byte loader, then load MITS basic crash half way through (10
minutes), toggle in the loader again, load the tape... I think that
lasted three months until I made my first PROM card using 8223 proms.
A few weeks later the ACR tape interface would be removed in favor of
a digital tape of my own design. The load, crash, reload cycles were
a great detriment to the goal of doing some serious programming. I
still feel the flakey hardware and really awful audio cassette kept me
>from doing anything useful for the first 6-7 months of ownership.
Hacks applied to mine to make it work with some reliablity before it was
replaced with a NS* system in early 78.
* Moved AC power from front pannel switch as I felt it was dangerous
having an unprotected traces with 110v on them.
* 8V DC line was 7.8v with cpu and two 4k dram cards. Added 12 turns to
the winding. Upgraded filter cap to larger value, replaced undersized
rectifers. Mits offered a new transformer at users cost.
* +-16V DC line marginal, rectifers fried, upgraded.
* Backplane was in four slot segments and was a single sided affair.
I had 8 slots and had to add bussbar to the power and ground lines
as the power distribution from one end of the bus tot he otehr was
poor.
* modifed memory cards (88MCD) to improve timing and signal quality.
* Replaced backplane with a improved two sided one from third party.
* Replaced 2mhz crystal and oneshots used for 8080 clock with 8224 and
18mhz crystal.
* modified memory cards to replace 4060s with uPD410 static devices of
the same pinout.
After all this the system would load MITS basic and run for a week solid
without crashing.
By the middle of '76 I'd be up to 4 memory cards of both the 88mcd design
and a vastly better 88S4k design. a then whopping 16k of ram. That would
be eclipsed by the addition of a Seals 8k static card that was 1/3 the
cost of the first 16k and still works!
If I'd waited a year and bought an IMSAI I'd have saved all that time,
about $3000 and had a machine that would not have required replacement.
The upside is by that time I'd learned how it should NOT be done.
Allison
RE: VAX/OpenVMS
< I would have thought so. I don't think there were any features "retired"
< going form 5.2 to 5.5. Of course, there were lots of new things added
< although sitting here I can't think of what - it's been a while since 5.
< was released!
I've been operating VMS 5.4-5.5 without docs for about five years. I'd
consider a 5.2 docset a windfall! The differences from 5.2 to 5.6 are
in part bug fixes (odd releases, like 5.3, 5.5) and feature additions
(5.2, 5.4, 5.6). that's not absolute but it generally follows that
pattern. Also within a version 5.x major changes will not happen or it
becomes 6.x! Also if the system is complete there will be a features
and additions page in the help file.
Allison
< http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=25437342
<
< When I last looked (an hour ago?) no-one had bid, the minimum bid is
< $1.00 (though there's work involved getting the stuff), there's a bit
< under two days to go, and here's the description:
<
< >Hundreds of tubes of brand-new 7400 & 74LS TTL DIPs and resistor
< >networks. 8 MHz 68000's and 16K DRAMs. Boxes and boxes of brand-new 3M
snip...
Sounds interesting but I'm cubed out here.
Allison
Almost sounds like something from the government - even the name. How
much are they asking for it? If it's not that much, it may be worth it
just to get it and see just what the heck it actually was for...
--
-Jason
(roblwill(a)usaor.net)
ICQ#-1730318
----------
> From: Joe <rigdonj(a)intellistar.net>
> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
> Subject: What the hell is a NightHawk 5800?
> Date: Tuesday, August 18, 1998 1:07 PM
>
> I was offered a NightHawk 5800 computer today. What the &*&% is it?
I've
> never heard of one. It was made by Harris Computer Systems and it's
> supposed to have 16Mb, Memory tape unit, a 5802 processor, 64 Meg Local
> Memory, 64 Meg Global Memeory, 2 slot front plane (front plane???), SCSSI
> Interface (no that's not a typo), Eagle Eatha Net Card, 4 mm DAT drive
and
> two 1 G hard drives. The operating system and a LARGE pile of manuals
are
> included. Any one know anything about this? ANY idea what it's worth?
> Is it usefull for anything?
>
> Joe
>
>>Same guy. Dunno, might be same machine. $10,000 reserve!
>
> I hope E-OverPay eats him up with the listing fee!
>
> Joe
Actually, it costs him nothing to relist. The initial
listing cost him $2 but he is afforded one free relist
if the item does not meet it's reserve.
Now, I know that many of you want to chase the moneychangers
out of this temple. And some probably even think that I
am the anti-christ who came in on a black helicopter.
But please try to help me understand something. If I
put something up for auction on Ebay I have not held
a gun to anyone's head and forced them to buy anything.
If, by their own free will, they make the decision to
bid an amount that is more than the accepted value
of that item then what have I done that is unethical?
If someone goes to a high priced Mom and Pop hardware
store and pays $30 for a Weller soldering iron when
he can buy the same iron at Wal-mart for $20 did Mom
and Pop do something unethical by offering the iron for
$30?
I know many of you have occupations in which you (or
your employer)
sell products or services at retail. And I'll bet
some of it is sold at what many would deem "sucker" prices.
Does that make you unethical? Simply because
you are not willing to price at wholesale?
What is the difference?
Bob Wood
>
>
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
I know this may be somewhat off-topic (I did throw in the word Altair a few
times though) but I can't help wondering now, what is preventing someone
>from setting an outrageous reserve and then simply accepting the highest
bidder's bid. The Ebay rules state (heh - you can believe me this time - I
just re-read them!) "You will not be charged a Final Value Fee if: There
were no bids on your item; OR There were no bids on your Reserve Price
Auctions that met the reserve price." In this case the Altair seller could
accept a bid of up to $9999 and end up owing Ebay $2.
Perhaps the Altair's ACTUAL (=in his head) reserve is considerably less than
$10000 and the person is simply trying to avoid the Final Value Fee.
<G>But is this ethical?
It should be noted that a winning BIDDER can also back out of a sale if
their bid didn't meet the reserve.
>
>Hey, Bob. I just noticed that you are the current high bidder! We
only
>know a few things about you: you're in it for the money, you've got a
>bunch of Altairs that you got "cheap", and you're an ethical guy. So,
>what's with the first momentum-setting bid?
>
>-- Doug
Doug,
To do this all in one post, first let me reply
to Marcus when he says...
"Ebay takes 5% of the bid
regardless of whether or not the reserve was met.
So if last time the bids went up to
$5000 - Ebay has billed him $250 + $2".
Marcus, When I need information relating to the
history of microcomputers I go to the experts. Doug
Yowza is an example. So, while certainly not an Ebay
expert, I'm a very experienced Ebay seller and you
can rely on my understanding of Ebay's terms.
Ebay charges a seller from 25 cents to $2 to list
each item (determined by the dollar amount of that
item's minimum and/or reserve). If the item does
not meet the reserve there is absolutely no further
fee charged by Ebay. If the item sells, the commission
charged by Ebay is as follows... 5% of the amount up
to $25. $2.5% of the amount between $25 and $1000.
And only 1% of the amount above $1000. The Altair
seller has been charged a total of $2 by Ebay, at this point.
If the Altair were now to sell for $10,000, the total
of fees and commisions he would pay to Ebay is
an additional $115.62.
Now, Doug, you ask "what's with the first momentum
setting bid"?
You have (and I suppose understandably so) jumped to
a wrong conclusion. If you have read all my words to
the readers of this list it should be apparent that
I have been very candid with you. I have no interest
in "establishing a momentum". The fact is that I had
tentatively made a sale on one of my Altairs. That sale
was never consummated. With all of the mention of
list subscribers contacting the parties involved in the
auction - I think it is possible that may have contributed
to my losing a sale and may influence the seller in question.
For that reason, I placed a bid that is the highest I
am willing to pay (Yes I will pay $2500. If anyone wishes
to sell me his Altair, contact me directly). If the seller
is told by those outside of his auction that his expectations
are silly then I am hoping he will sell me the computer
for that amount. It costs me nothing to try.
But, Doug, now that I have answered your question, you
have failed to answer mine. I would be very interested in
hearing your answer.
Bob Wood
>
>
______________________________________________________
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At 08:00 PM 8/17/98 -0700, you wrote:
>
>Strange coincidence, I just picked up another today (my second, the first
>doesn't pass self test).
Hint! Mine didn't either at first. It gave a bunch of ROM errors. I
unplugged the ROM drawer and it passed self tests. Then I took out the
ROMs and found one with one of it's pins bent under. I straightened the
pin and put everything back in place and now it passes all tests.
I know only a little about it from the manuals I
>got with the first. The only thing I know about the keyboards is that
>they are difficult to find, as I've never seen one yet.
I can believe it. I know a guy that has six 4041s and he still hasn't
found a keyboard.
>
>Its 68000 based and has a backplane inside so you can add or remove cards.
>If you look carefully at the bottom face of the unit, you'll notice it is
>a little cover about 1" high and the length of the front of the machine.
>You can pry it off with a coin, then pull on the rubber handle you see.
>Out pops a ROM tray. The one I got today has the Graphics ROM and
>thegraphics printing option.
Mine has the Program Developement ROMs and two other ROMs with Tektronix
part numbers but no name. They show up as PD, XO and IO in the self test
failure listing.
>
>You don't necessarily need the keyboard to program it although it helps
>I'm sure.
I'll bet! I'm still looking for a keyboard for my HP 9915s too!
Joe
>
>Sam Alternate e-mail:
dastar(a)siconic.com
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
>Ever onward.
>
> September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0
> See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details!
> [Last web site update: 08/09/98]
>
>
>While there, I found a slim manual to the CDC 6000 series
machines.
>Something about SCOPE...I suppose I ought to read it.
>
There were two OSes for the CDC 6000/7000 series, SCOPE and
KRONOS. KRONOS was the full blown OS, lots of feature,
utilities, etc. while SCOPE was the stripped down OS (I think it
predated KRONOS). As I remember SCOPE didn't really offer much
more than MSDOS in terms of services, it was mostly batch
oriented, big jobs, CPU intensive, not much timeshare support.
KRONOS was a fairly good timeshare environment for it's day, not
in the TOPS-20 league but of course very fast, being a 60 bit
Cray design.
Jack Peacock
