<YEs, but you need to keep quite a bit of stuff in memory. I think perhap
<32K of data memory. I'd like to see anybody fit all of TeX82 into the
<other 32K that's common on a CP/M system.
Overlays and other sectioning techniques. Also a good portion 32k data
area can be farmed to disk files.
64k space can be tough but people ahve done bigger things in smaller
machines.
Allison
Microsoft NT Server 4.0 ships with GORILLA.BAS
Completely bizarre. Any guesses why? I know it's not really classic as
I'm fairly sure GORILLA.BAS didn't ship with MS-DOS until version 4 or 5.
Still. Weird.
ok
r.
<> The tower actually *boots* from the tape during install! Is that
<> crazy or what?
<
<What's strange about that? My old Zilog S8000 (Z8001 processor) does the
<same. And most minis can boot from their tape drvies. It's a standard way
<boot real machines.
Bigtime
PDP-11s (rsts, RSX-11 and even RT on tape), vaxen all can. I've booted
CPM from paper tape!
Allison
>This is not about computers, but it's vintage tech so it's almost on topic...
>
>Just picked up a very cool miniature battery operated wire recorder and I
>need to find out what sort of battery it originally used - or at least to
>find out what voltage it takes so I can try it out. Also would like to find
>out more about it - date, original cost, etc.
>
>It's a Minifon Special, made by Protona (Hamburg, Ger.). The battery
>compartment measures 1.25 x 3.5 inches, with a flat, brass spring contact
>at either end.
>
>It's a beautiful little machine, in mint condition, complete with fitted
>pigskin case. Even the original spool of hair-thin wire is unbroken.
>Outside dimensions are 4 x 6.5 x 1.25 inches and it's finished in a sort of
>goldish-cream textured lacquer. There are two din sockets on the front, one
>with three pins for the mike (included), and another, unmarked, with nine
>pins.
>
>Anybody know anything about this little gem? Surely someone on the list
>goes back far enough to have seen one of these...
>
>R.
>
Ahh yes, the Minifon. Yes, it's off-topic, but it is/was indeed a cool piece
of technology. German from the early 1950s. Wire recording had all but died
out, but this machine was smaller than any TAPE recorder, so there was a
niche market. Yes, it was used by spies, law enforcement, and such. (There
was a version of the microphone built to look and be worn like a
wristwatch!)
It used subminature tubes 1 1/2 inches long.
If you find a 1953 Allied radio catalog you'll find it listed for sale there
for $289.50.
A transistorized version of this wire recorder was being built after 1960!
There's some info on this and about a zillion tape recorders from the 1950s
and 60s in a book called "Evolution of the Audio Recorder" by Phil Van
Praag. A book I thought I'd never see written - I guess it took an old audio
technician to write it.
--Larry
(Who, in an attempt to drag this back on topic, is trying to envision a
wire-recording storage device for a computer. Lousy tracks per inch.)
I found a compaq vocalyst keyboard today, has 4x5 box type plug...
_________
o o o o o
o o o o x
x x x x x
x x x x x
---------
something like that, w/ the x's as pins.
has built in speaker, mic and ext speaker jack, and PS/2 mouse port on
keyboard... any idea what this thing is? or what it was for? i realize
that it's not that old, but my interest is too piqued to let it ride.
>On Fri, 5 Jun 1998, Jon Healey wrote:
>
>> After a fair amount of effort on my part, I found and obtained a
>> copy of the July 1974, Radio-Electronics mag that has the cover
>> story "Build the Mark-8, your personal minicomputer". I was
>> less than delighted to find that in this instance, R-E left out
>> most of the construction details (including any skematics).
>> They have an offer on the second page of the article where
>> you should order the kit with circuit board patterns, and
>> the rest of the details. The article includes some theory of
>> ops, a parts list and a few photos.
>
>
>Actually... about a year ago as part of my efforts to re-create a
>'Mark-8', I contacted Gernback Publications and was able (with suitable
>begging and pleading) to get them to loan me the last existing masters for
>the article series AND the construction package.
>
>>snip
>
>If anyone would like a copy of this document set, drop me a note. I'd
>suggest that to avoid generation loss in copying the docs yet again you
>consider sending along a blank CD-R disc with a SASE for its return, and
>I'll provide you with the scanned (TIFF) files. (no charge) It's WAY too
>big for floppies!
>
>If you require printed copies, it would be just the cost of printing and
>postage.
>
>(...and if you make a new set of PC boards, I want one too!) B^}
>
>-jim
OK, I just got back in town.
Were you deluged?
What's your address? I'd be happy to send you a blank CD if you'll make me a
set.
--Larry Groebe
--Dallas TX
>> Anyways, I also have a 400 series Tower (as mentioned in the exerpt
>> below), and lots of spare boards (including the meter-long
>> systemboard).
nice to know there's still some Tower users about - there seemed to be
quite a following a few years ago but interest in them seems to have
dried up (although there's probably a few posts to comp.sys.ncr still -
one day I'll get proper Usenet access here :)
do you know if NCR (or AT&T, or whoever's responsible for these things
these days!!) can still supply OS tapes? I got my '700 with all sorts of
software on the disks - the guys it came from we in to developing
programs for X-windows so there's quite a lot of cool stuff on there.
Sadly no OS tapes and no manuals (I borrowed field service manuals from
someone a while back so have all the useful info from there).
mind you, last time I tried to power up the machine it was completely
dead. I only had a few minutes so checked obvious fuses etc, but without
any luck. Hopefully something simple - I don't fancy trying to trace a
fault on one of those system boards :*)
>
cheers
Jules
<But there's a difference between a Z-80 running a text-mode interface,
<and an 8088 running a GUI. Also, remember that Bill Gates didn't know
Not much. Some z80 systems were faster, considering by time thge 4.77
mhz 8088 was making inroads around 84ish the z80s were cranking at
8mhz some faster. Also the 8088 was anout the same efficientcy as the
z80 for byte data. There were a few z80 system with 128k or more of ram
running at 6mhz around the time of the PC introduction.
I have a Visual1050 (early 1984) that is z80 128kb ram and GUI capable
running CPM and GSX-80 all competing with PC GUI systems. Nice box with
10mb hard disk and two 400k floppies and mono monitor.
<very much about operating systems, as opposed to languages. MS Windows
<is the only OS MS programmed ground up, something they only started
No. The internal file system (disk operating system <dos>) used on the
TRS80 disk basic was amoung the many that preceeded it that was before
1979. The file system was FAT based.
<after the A1000. And, I've never seen Windows multitask under 8MB in the
<way the Amiga or a UNIXoid computer can.
W3x was not preemtive nor very good coopertive multitask. And even
with 32mb didn't change that. It would take w95 to get to that point.
CPM in the guise of MPM was doing for years by then. I'd also had CP/M
multitasking in 64k in '81. No majik.
There was also multiuser basic for Altair and NS* had a multiuser version
of the NS* OS.
<>> and Gates replied that multitasking really wasn't possible in
<>> anything under 8 megs of ram. To which the same reporter replied,
The PDP-11s running RSTS (or TSX-11) in the 70s didn't multitask
either... sometimes with several dozen users usually in 64kb and maybe
256kb of ram. But heck the PDP-8 was doing in before that in 8kw (RTS-8
or os/8). Of course if you want something modern that can multitask in
less than 8mb VAX/VMS (runs fair in 4mb!).
Allison
<I've begun to feel that anyone who got into Field Circus work after
<'83 or so shouldn't be allowed any tools trickier than a screwdriver.
As someone that developed service planning and service products I'd agree
generally, 60% did not have the concept fo troubleshooting and were only
fair board swappers. However the remaining people tended to be highly
skilled with pride in their ability, most were very competent in
troubleshooting. There were many I'd go to for practical expertize as
the Ivory tower folk were far to isolated for my taste.
Allison
<I've seen TeX compiled by Turbo Pascal (TeX is written in Web, which can
<be converted into Pascal). IIRC it had to be split into sections to get
<over the 64K code limit of TP. I still have problems with the idea of
<running it _with enough space for the various variables_ in a 64K machin
The conversion process and pascal compiler adds weight.
<LaTeX is just a set of macros that run on top of TeX. I can assure you I
<know the difference. And how early? Before TeX82?
1979.
<TeX in itself has no idea what a printer is. It produces a DVI file whic
<is essentially a binary file describing which characters and 'rules'
<(lines) have to be put where. There's a printer driver which takes a DVI
<file and outputs the code for whatever printer you have.
Understood. Did a lot of work in printing for DEC and none slower than
12ppm.
The DVI is essentially a bit map and as a result for godd page can be
quite big. However the virtual window to disk file works and is
adaquately fast.
Allison
