I am. In 7th grade. Still think that jr. high school's a COMPLETE waste of
time, especially for geeks (or people like me, who like to consider
themselves geeks, but probably couldn't make it...), at our school. No
UNIX, no programming, not even a 32 bit OS!!! (And that's even counting
Windows!!!!) All I really can do is do what I want in Computers... (but
with the software that they've got available, the most I can do is type a
word doc. instead of write an e-mail... TONS of freedom there...)
Ciao,
Tim D. Hotze
-----Original Message-----
From: Daniel A. Seagraves <DSEAGRAV(a)toad.xkl.com>
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
Date: Tuesday, May 12, 1998 7:14 PM
Subject: Re: Hello - I'm a new reader / STUDENTS
>[Any students?]
>
>I'm a high school student...
>-------
At 07:06 PM 5/13/98 +0300, you wrote:
>to learn anything in perticular, except for stuff pertaining to... anyway, I
>think that here's a good time to give students a choice to know what they're
>going to do. I, for instance, want to specilize in Computers. Spending
>time learning "Pre-Algebra" (Just spent 2 class periods making a protractor
>accurate to 90' from a piece of paper.) isn't helpful, at least not that
Okay, so maybe you're a wiz in math/science, but you've got two
misspellings in there (pArticular and speciAlize) so perhaps you should be
concentrating on grammar/literature/etc? 8^)
>>High school, take the first two to the next levels and add skills needed
>>to find paying work.
>
>I say that some students should be given the oppertunity to do this in Jr.
>High. Not everyone, but some people. After all, by this time, you know if
>you're not going to be a chemist, programmer, or anything.
Well, in Jr. High I was all set to be a private dick... er, detective.
Early high school, I was ready to head for Harvard Law School. Late high
school, the plan was U-Ill/Urbana-Champaign for under Grad Elect/Elect
Engineering, then MIT for grad school. During college (SF City College) I
was going to join the FBI. After dropping out of college, I wanted to be a
synthesist, or maybe an inventor. Now, I want to be a politician.
So when is it you know what you want to be when you grow up?
--------------------------------------------------------------------- O-
Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad
roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know."
Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates
San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/
At 07:41 AM 5/13/98 -0500, you wrote:
>Did you ask if he added one too many zeros? Obviously the guy is heavy into
>hallucenogenic drugs...The Commie itself is worth *maybe* $40 and the
mixer is
>worth maybe another $200 if your lucky. I have seen and done some things with
>those obscure little breadboxes though that most people would never think
>possible.
Ummm... I don't dispute the commie value (perhaps a tad high?) but a
24-track (or was it 32?) 8-bus mixer with automation for $200? Tell me
where -- I'll buy it.
--------------------------------------------------------------------- O-
Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad
roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know."
Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates
San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/
At 06:43 PM 5/12/98 PDT, you wrote:
>When was this thing with "computer literacy in schools is everything"
>started? I like computers in schools, but I am tired of looking at
>proposed plans to replace 5 MORE classrooms with computer labs. Is
>this a classic thing? Would you in general say that computers have
>affected education (keeping the discussion OnT, of course).
Well, I'm shooting from the hip here, but I do have some experience in this
area.
The idea of "computer labs" comes from IMO two things: 1) The idea of
teaching "computers" as a separate subject and 2) the inability for schools
to afford computers for every classroom.
Looking at these in turn, "computers" as a subject in itself *may* have
been a valid concept *at one time* (i.e., with some of the machines we deal
with) but now is no longer an issue. Kids today have very little problem
with the concepts involved in running a program (it's the same as sticking
in a nintendo cartridge) or using a mouse (aka joystick) etc. Certainly,
programming is a separate issue, but not everyone needs to learn C or Java
or even Basic, just as not everyone needs to learn how to rebuild a
transmission or tune a piano.
As for schools not being able to afford computers, well heck, they can't
even afford pencils and paper. I kid you not. Every fall, I get woken up
at 7am to be first in line at Target when the Crayons/folders/pencil
boxes/pencils/scissors/etc. go on sale (every week, it seems -- <groan>) so
that my girlfriend can buy the supplies she wants for her classroom on sale
*with her own money*. So, yes, most schools can't afford computers, in
general, let alone enough for each classroom.
So, what to do? Should they even bother? I think, based on Rachel's
experiences, that the answer is a resounding *YES*, teachers should
scrounge and steal and swindle as many computers as they can for their
schools/classrooms. But not to teach "computers". They should be a tool,
just like any other, to teach reading, math, science, comprehension, etc.
And so I'll go against the grain and say it's more important in the lower
grades (K-3 or so) to have computers available than in the upper grades.
Upper grades, junior and high school especially, can do just as well with
older machines as they can with the newer ones.
PC-Write under DOS is an excellent solution for writing term papers or book
reports, and will teach the concepts of word processing just as well as the
latest version of MSWord. Qbasic, Cobol, and C/C++ for DOS are all just as
good as their GUI counterparts for learning how to write a program; Once
you understand the idea, switching to another language is a piece of cake.
I write all my web pages in PC-Write (and I'm damn proud of some of them)
and often use Arachne (DOS browser) to check them.
Non-readers, however, can make better use of newer technology. Programs
like the Playroom, Millie's Math House, and such really get the kids
interested and having a good time; they don't realize (or care) that
they're actually learning to read or count or what-have-you. This is the
real value of computers in education. Mind you, older computers can be
used here too, (the original version of the Playroom ran fine on a Mac
Plus), but if you've got an old XT and a 486, give the upper grades the XT
and the wee ones the 486.
As to the craze for pushing computer literacy at the expense of general
literacy, I think that older folks (30+) look at technology and how it was
new to them, and how it is becoming so pervasive in our society, and
they're scared. Scared that their kids will be as unprepared as they were.
(What they don't understand, of course, is that that very pervasiveness
will make kids take the technology in stride: My niece could work the VCR
(play, ffwd, rwd, eject) at 1.5years; she's a wiz on the computer) Add to
that the media and the politicians who love to play on the public's fears
and work them into a frenzy to serve their own purposes and the corporate
world who just want to sell more *stuff*...
Computers have affected education, both for good and bad (like most
anything.) They allow teachers to come up with fun worksheets that teach,
quickly and easily; they can help kids that couldn't learn to read finally
do it; they allow kids to work independantly at their own speed, allowing
the teacher to work with the kids that need the most help. But, they also
cause distractions, can be abused as babysitters by lesser teachers, and
can displace funding and space for other, more needed supplies and
equipment.
Overall, the benefits of computers in the schools (as elsewhere, IMO) *FAR*
outweigh the problems.
Now the problem with older computers in the classrooms is not that they're
not useful, it's that they're not adequately supported for the majority of
non-computer-literate teachers. (Teachers know how to teach; they don't
know how to do a low-level format on a CP/M hard drive.) So, all you folks
on this list, who know what you're doing, call up your local schools and
see if they have any [older] computers that they need help putting to use.
> honest, the computer department here at the school is rather
> pathetic, two Apple //e's and an XT that was donated that I
> can't get to work.
Apple //e's are fine for teaching BASIC programming and Word processing,
and I know there are educational programs available for the younger kids,
too. (Right Sam?) That XT should be repairable, and would make a great
text-editing station or could be put to use in math classes running Lotus
1-2-3 or Excel.
But, we've got a teacher who can't put them to use, but they don't have the
skills/knowledge to do so.
So, are there any collectors in/around Humble TX that can help out?
P.S., I have my girlfriend working on a list of all the EduSoftware she has
and what it's good at (and how good it is) to be put on a web page, so that
someone who gets a computer for their classroom can see what software works
and will run. (All her computers are Mac IIci or less (68030 or lower)
(though we've got one IIci with an '040 board in it to go in, as soon as I
get a chance to clean up the hard drive and such.))
>>> prejudiced on the side of reading over computers -- I only have
>>> fifty-odd computers, I've got [half bought new] several thousand
>>> books, mostly the science fiction I've loved since before the
Well, I've only got about a 1000 books, and about 100 computers, but
there's a lot more in the house (my folks had a whole wall of bookshelves
put in when they bought the house). I too would say that if you can't
read/write (communicate)/count, a computer's not going to do you much good
in the long run -- it can't do that for you. (In fact, it will get you to
do more of the above.)
Anyway, sorry for the ultra-long rant...
--------------------------------------------------------------------- O-
Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad
roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know."
Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates
San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/
Hi all,
> The relevant documentation is "MSCP Basic Disk Functions Manual",
> AA-L619A-TK, and "Storage System Diagnostics And Utility Protocol",
> AA-L620A-TK, which in turn are parts of the UDA50 Programmer's
> Documentation Kit (QP-905-GZ). My copy is version 1.2, April 1982.
anyone has this documents here, and don't need it anymore ?
thanks,
emanuel
OK, the other chips are:
Hitachi HD74LS32P
367AP
240P
164P
MB74LS00
138
TI J549X SN74LS541N
The card has a weird logo: A large S, progressively narrowing toward
the top.
Could someone tell me about the actual drive?
>They're probably TTL buffers/address decoding logic. Can you post the
>numbers (which probably start 74LS) and we'll try to identify them and
>guess likely functions.
>
>My guess is that this is some kind of custom parallel interface. Put
the
>8255 into Mode 2 and you've got a bidirectional data path on port A and
>control lines on the other 2 ports. That's the most likely setup
>(although it might be something totally different, like using one port
>for input and another for output).
>
>-tony
>
>
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
I hope that this is marginally on topic - the technology is over 10 years
old and it is about using an old machine even if the OS is brand new.
I have a PS/2 Model 30 and am taking part in testing the ELKS port of Linux
to the XT architecture. On the PS/2 ELKS cannot see any keystrokes, having
booted OK. Does anyone (Tony?) have a techref for this machine and if so
what is the difference between this and a 'normal' XT. I am thinking that
perhaps the keyboard buffer may be at a different place in memory thus DOS,
using the BIOS, can see it but we can't by looking directly at the hardware.
TIA
Pete
Found this on Usenet. Can anyone help out? If so, please respond directly
to the author of the message.
Thanks.
-=-=- <snip> -=-=-
On Wed, 13 May 98 15:22:55 CST, in comp.unix.ultrix you wrote:
>>From: Mike.Hoff(a)CRHA-Health.Ab.Ca (Mike Hoff)
>>Newsgroups: comp.unix.ultrix
>>Subject: Old DECstation
>>Date: Wed, 13 May 98 15:22:55 CST
>>Organization: Unorganized.
>>Lines: 10
>>Distribution: world
>>Message-ID: <This.644(a)Somewhere.COM>
>>NNTP-Posting-Host: veena.cc.uregina.ca
>>Path: blushng.jps.net!news.eli.net!uunet!in3.uu.net!ais.net!newsfeed.wli.net!news.he.net!news.pagesat.net!decwrl!tribune.usask.ca!news.uregina.ca!(a)somewhere.com
>>
>>
>>Sorry to bother you, but I'm not sure who to talk to (and Digital wasn't
>>much help). I have an old Decstation 2100 dug out of the basement - is
>>this worth anything? Any idea where this equipment could be taken for
>>repairs and OS help? Any information you can give me would be
>>appreciated.
>>
>>Please reply to Mike.Hoff(a)CRHA-Health.Ab.Ca directly as I do not have
>>Usenet access from my office.
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Bruce Lane, SysOp,
The Dragon's Cave BBS (Fido 1:343/272)
kyrrin {at} j<p>s d[o]t n=e=t
"...No matter how hard we may wish otherwise, our science can only describe
an object, event, or living creature, in our own human terms. It cannot possibly
define any of them!..."
OK... remember that Arthur J. Carp fellow... well, I got a copy of Warp 3...
3.5" disks. (It's been a while...) Anyway, this is semi-on topic, as
OS/2's a pretty good story, and older versions are classic.
So here's the deal. I can get all the way to Disk 6, then I re-insert
the Install diskette. Then, it asks me to reboot. I reboot, and it's not
there. I also have Windows 95 on this system. So how do I: Get past that
2) Get to see the drive's contents (it's not the same C as FAT 32 sees
it...)
Thanks,
Tim D. Hotze
If you need anything or need any information about Apple /// (SARA)
the best place is Washington Apple Pi. They are a group dedicated to all
apple and mac hardware and software. Mr. Dave Ottalini is the historian
and librarian for the apple ///. To get help from him or any other
person ap WAP, you need to join the club.
