At 09:44 AM 5/13/98 -0400, you wrote:
>
> Personally, I believe the "computer literacy in schools is everything"
> movement is a result of inept teachers and a haywire NEA. Here in the
> Washington, D.C. area I have read reports of teachers pushing
> 'invented' spelling as a method to avoid hurting the challenged
> student's self esteem. Educators seem to think the student will
Ummm... I don't doubt someone came up with this, but I doubt that it is
widespread; If one teacher does it, the media pick it up and report it as
if everyone was doing it, and of course the public loves to think that all
teachers are idiots just goofing off until they can retire.
I think it's jealousy over this (imaginary) summer vacation.
Most teachers are extremely hard working, committed educators who put a lot
of their own time and money into their classes. My girlfriend (admittedly,
one of the most insane) arrives at school before 7am (everyday) and rarely
leaves before 5pm. She spends her evenings and weekends doing schoolwork.
She spends her summers planning the next year and building various
curriculum. And she works with the other teachers all the time, so she's
not alone.
The problem is partially a lack of funding for schools and very a lack of
adequate parenting. Rachel sent home some work for the kids to do with
their parents one time; she got one back where the father had written (on
both sides, in big, red letters) that his kid can't do such advanced work
(they'd been doing it in class all week) and that "I AM NOT A TEACHER".
With a father like that, it's a wonder that the kid knows how to go to the
bathroom.
There are other kids: one whose parents come to school at lunch time to
take him to the bathroom and feed him his lunch (first grade, no kidding),
and a kid who is almost completely blind, yet even after the social worker
took him to the eye doctor (with her own money) still doesn't have glasses.
Kids whose parents beat them, who are being raised by grandparents because
their parents don't want them, kids who see people shot in real life, as
well as on TV. And there are kids who are taught to hate because of skin
color or religion, or whatever. Kids that are taught that the proper
response to a disagreement is hit. Kids that are ignored at home, left on
their own with a babysitter or nanny, or worse, to wander the neighborhood.
Kids that are allowed, even encouraged, if it will shut them up, to watch
stuff on telly that even *I* won't watch.
Sure, there are bad teachers out there, just as there are bad mechanics,
programmers, doctors, etc. But most of them work harder than probably
anybody on this list, and probably for a lot less money.
But parents don't even take responsibility for checking out the teachers.
There are also different styles of teaching; you wouldn't drop your volvo
off at a Land Rover mechanic, would you? But most parents don't bother to
see (or ask) if a teacher's style is the best for their kids.
Most parents pay more attention to whether or not their kids have brushed
their teeth than whether or not they've done their homework.
Don't put the blame on the teachers without putting it on the parents as well.
> in software will correct them. What a cop out. I don't believe
> students should be introduced to computers (read: word
> processors/calculators) until the first year of high school after
> mastering basic reading, comprehension, writing and math skills.
Computers are a very valuable tool for teaching those very skills. To deny
kids access to them is to slow them down.
--------------------------------------------------------------------- O-
Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad
roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know."
Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates
San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/
>At 07:06 PM 5/13/98 +0300, you wrote:
>>to learn anything in perticular, except for stuff pertaining to... anyway,
I
>>think that here's a good time to give students a choice to know what
they're
>>going to do. I, for instance, want to specilize in Computers. Spending
>>time learning "Pre-Algebra" (Just spent 2 class periods making a
protractor
>>accurate to 90' from a piece of paper.) isn't helpful, at least not that
>
>Okay, so maybe you're a wiz in math/science, but you've got two
>misspellings in there (pArticular and speciAlize) so perhaps you should be
>concentrating on grammar/literature/etc? 8^)
I'm not a wiz in math/science at all. That's the point. I'm not learning
anything, and neither are the 14 or so people that I really know in the
class. In a class where 2/3 isn't learning jack SHOULD tell the teacher
something.
>>>High school, take the first two to the next levels and add skills needed
>>>to find paying work.
>>
>>I say that some students should be given the oppertunity to do this in Jr.
>>High. Not everyone, but some people. After all, by this time, you know
if
>>you're not going to be a chemist, programmer, or anything.
>
>Well, in Jr. High I was all set to be a private dick... er, detective.
>Early high school, I was ready to head for Harvard Law School. Late high
>school, the plan was U-Ill/Urbana-Champaign for under Grad Elect/Elect
>Engineering, then MIT for grad school. During college (SF City College) I
>was going to join the FBI. After dropping out of college, I wanted to be a
>synthesist, or maybe an inventor. Now, I want to be a politician.
>
>So when is it you know what you want to be when you grow up?
Computers. Entrepreneur. I'll start my own company developing software.
I'd start out with simple stuff, such as an e-mail client, and grow.
Another good thing to do (at least now) is to start a web page/Virtual
Community. That's changed a single time since Kindergarten, where I wanted
to be an aeronautical engineer, seeing as how I had zip experience with
computers. My idea's been the same for 5 years now.
Tim D. Hotze
At 11:59 PM 5/12/98 +0000, you wrote:
>Apple and 8bitters of it's ilks that is found in K-12 has it's places
>because these are what excels at teaching kids materials but in high
>school level, we need to convert guys over to real things like
>windows and 486 boxens, unix and like using word processing and
>speadsheets, such yak yak..of most types not including 100% dumb M$
NONONONONONONONO!!!
Word Processing and Spreadsheets, even 'net access can be taught just fine
on 8-bit machines, or DOS-based PC's. The younger kids are the ones who
can profit most from the non-textual interfaces that the newer machines can
offer.
To over-simplify: Older kids can read; they can learn to type commands.
Younger kids can't read; they need pictures (icons).
--------------------------------------------------------------------- O-
Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad
roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know."
Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates
San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/
Personally, I believe the "computer literacy in schools is everything"
movement is a result of inept teachers and a haywire NEA. Here in the
Washington, D.C. area I have read reports of teachers pushing
'invented' spelling as a method to avoid hurting the challenged
student's self esteem. Educators seem to think the student will
eventually learn to spell correctly later in life or that spell-checks
in software will correct them. What a cop out. I don't believe
students should be introduced to computers (read: word
processors/calculators) until the first year of high school after
mastering basic reading, comprehension, writing and math skills.
Marty
______________________________ Reply Separator
_________________________________
Subject: Re: RETROCOMPUTING LIQUIDATION
Author: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu at internet
Date: 5/12/98 9:47 PM
When was this thing with "computer literacy in schools is everything"
started? I like computers in schools, but I am tired of looking at
proposed plans to replace 5 MORE classrooms with computer labs. Is
this a classic thing? Would you in general say that computers have
affected education (keeping the discussion OnT, of course).
>
>> snoball wrote:
>> >
>> > Hi, I am a teacher here at the local elementary school in Humble,
TX. To be
>> > honest, the computer department here at the school is rather
pathetic, two
>> > Apple //e's and an XT that was donated that I can't get to work.
To be
>> > frank, these kids are going into a world where they are illiterate
in the
>> > basic workings of a computer. I hate to sound desperate, but I
have just
>> > exausted all leads I know to take on the matter. I saw your ad and
thought
>>
>> Don't panic. Here in New Jersey, the kids are all experts at
>> Nintendo (and some of the brighter lights at hacking security),
>> but damned few can actually read the manuals. Remember, the
>> most important component of "computer literacy" is "literacy".
>> If the kids can read, they can learn computers. If they can't,
>> there's not much else worth teaching them except to pee on the
>> side of the dumpster the cops aren't watching. (I may be a bit
>> prejudiced on the side of reading over computers -- I only have
>> fifty-odd computers, I've got [half bought new] several thousand
>> books, mostly the science fiction I've loved since before the
>> "New Math" was introduced to my grade school [after I'd had the
>> benefit of learning the stuff that worked].)
>> --
>> Ward Griffiths
>> They say that politics makes strange bedfellows.
>> Of course, the main reason they cuddle up is to screw somebody else.
>> Michael Flynn, _Rogue Star_
>
>
>
>
______________________________________________________
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From: "Max Eskin" <maxeskin(a)hotmail.com>
To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers"
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: RETROCOMPUTING LIQUIDATION
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> Are there any students besides Derek on the list?
>
> I am a fourth year electrical engineering major here at
> Oklahoma State.
>
> --Scott
I'm a terminal student of the college of Hard Knocks....
Graduating when they pry my cold dead fingers from the keyboard.
--
Bill
#include <std.disclaimer.h>
+---------------------------------------------------------------------+
| whayes(a)wizard.com | Powered by FreeBSD | finger for pgp public key. |
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Key fingerprint = 54 AC A0 8E F0 B6 94 6B 93 6B 34 D7 EB 13 78 BC
<Apple and 8bitters of it's ilks that is found in K-12 has it's places
<because these are what excels at teaching kids materials but in high
<school level, we need to convert guys over to real things like
<windows and 486 boxens, unix and like using word processing and
<speadsheets, such yak yak..of most types not including 100% dumb M$
<stuff.
Let me compress that:
Elementary school, how to learn. (language, reading, arithmetic)
Intermeadiate school, how to find answers to questions and communicate
them.
High school, take the first two to the next levels and add skills needed
to find paying work.
Computers are a part of life and M$ stuff is unfortunatly reality we live
with every day. The unfortunate part is I meet kids at the grocer that
play doom, surf the net and can't count change.
Allison
>At 03:28 AM 5/13/98 -0500, Doug Yowza wrote (more or less):
>
>Perhaps Someone should make a web site with reports of classic
>system sale prices, in order to balance the tales of $500 PETs
>with $5 PETs. Like anything else, so many other factors must
>be considered: rarity, condition, history, etc.
>
>- John
Actually, David Greelish (of "historically brewed" and the "classic
computing society") is attempting just such an online price guide. His
efforts so far can be seen on:
http://members.aol.com/mtpro/
email: desieh(a)southcom.com.au
desieh(a)bigfoot.com
museum_curator(a)hotmail.com
Apple Lisa Web Page:
http://www.southcom.com.au/~desieh/index.htm
>On Tue, 12 May 1998, The Adept wrote:
>
>> I almost choked on my Leinenkugel's when I saw the current bid on the
>> following:
>>
>> http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=13839197
>>
>> I'll save the surprise for you who want to check it out (it's a
>> Commodore Educator 64)
>
>Holy Crap! I should just sell my damn collection at the prices some of
>these goons are paying. I could pay off all my bills AND put in that pool
>I've always wanted, plus put a down payment on the Viper.
>
>Sam Alternate e-mail:
>dastar(a)siconic.com
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------
>-----
>Ever onward.
>
> September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2
> See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details!
> [Last web page update: 05/11/98]
>
yeah well a fool is born every 1 second dont they say?
or was it a fool and thier money soon part.........
man I could get that Cadilliac Ive always wanted if i sold my
collection......
Hi All,
I recently acquired an ASR33 and I'm in need of some assitance in order
to be able to let it work against my Unix box.
At the back of the powersupply there is a terminal strip with a number
of lugs. Question is, which lugs to use, the unit is an UCC-6
(for private wire setups).
Other problem is which voltage to use for the current loop to rs232,
I have a converter, and uses 5 volt maximum, and do not know if that
will work. If not, does someone then have a proper schematic?
Thanks,
Ed
>Well aside from the fact that we're _all_ students whether or not
>we're matriculated somewhere -- Tim Hotze is around here someplace
>and I'm pretty sure he's not officially in college yet.
Far from it, unfortunaetly. BTW, just for other students, or ex-students on
the list: Yesterday I had my science fair project: Linux Vs. Windows. Now,
I had two or three problems: 1) Couldn't seem to "dumb it down" enough to
get the judges to understand.
2) Presentation wasn't really "flashy", more like a scientific paper. 3)
The paper was too "dumbed down" to actually say what I wanted it to say. I
couldn't do what I wanted to so that it would make sense to the judges.
>--
>Ward Griffiths
>They say that politics makes strange bedfellows.
>Of course, the main reason they cuddle up is to screw somebody else.
> Michael Flynn, _Rogue Star_
Tim D. Hotze
