test-drb March 1998

test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org

167 participants
859 discussions

by adam＠merlin.net.au

I work in AI from the philosophical side, so I might be able to help here. >I just caught the end of that special. I didn't realize that interest in AI >had expired. Not at all. But there were some problems with teh aims and the possible realisations. Specifically, the dream of making a computer that could converse, as per the very foolish Turing Test, has appeared to be further away than ever. The original dream ran up against the sheer complexity of the problem, and the way in which the architecture that was being employed - basically there was a brute strength attitude, which was not successful. What is needed now is a new direction, which is being provided in a number of different areas - most notably from Daniel Dennett's COG. The one of the big problems was what is know as the Frame Problem of AI. It's not fitting to explain it here, but in essence the problem is that it takes time to catalogue the things which are not relevant, as well as those which are. Thus a computere faced with a problem would have to spend most of it's time working out what is irrelevant - severly limiting it's ability to solve anything. There are a lot of other problems, such as the distinction betweem implicit and explicit memory, but the upshot is that the old methods failed, and the new are still being developed. >Was there just no demand for AI, or has the market just taken the useful >aspects and abandoned the remainder? Isn't the Neural Net technology being >used in various pattern recognition applications (i.e. OCR) descended from >the AI research of the the 70's and 80's? The useful bits are being employed widly - fuzzy logic in toasters, expert systems all over teh place, OCR stuff, the military make extensive use of neural nets in the development of new missile technologies, etc. It has neither been given up, nor proven useless - it's just that we aren't going to be passing the Turing test for a while yet and, even if we do, it will prove nothing. Adam.

26 years, 4 months

Robots again

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

>> Perhaps a real computer historian can chime in here, but I vaguely recall >> that there was considerable experimentation and debate early in the >> development of electronic computers along the lines of analog vs. digital, >> von neumann vs non-von, analogies to electronic brains, etc. > What do you mean by Von Neumann? I see that as a self-replicating mechanism... > >I have here a book from the Philips Technical Library called 'Practical >Robot Circuits' published in 1960. The first half of this book contains >the design for a robot 'dog' using essentially an analogue control system >(mostly amplifiers and comparators) to process the signals from various >sensors (photocells, microphones, thermistors, etc). The outputs of the What can this "dog" do? Does it have any kind of interesting abilities? > >BTW, the electronic side of the device uses valves (vacuum tubes). > >The second half of the book describes a tic-tac-toe machine, again using >valves. This one is entirely digital AFAIK. Why does EVERYONE love Tic-Tac-Toe so much? Bill Gates made a program, this book has a machine.... [snip] AFAIK, the Soviet Union, before it broke apart, put a lot of time into analog and mechanical machines, anything but pure IC logic, anyway. This was partly because they(we) didn't have the technology to make reliable VLSI ICs on a large scale, but mostly that the weird non- or semi-digital machines can handle a lot more beating and EM interference. > >I seem to recall that A.K. Dewdeny (That's not the right spelling...) >wrote about 'analogue gadgets' in Scientific American at some point. The >basic point IIRC was that analogue systems are good at providing fast >_approximate_ solutions to certain problems. > >-tony > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

26 years, 4 months

Looking for a Q-Bus card

by emu＠ecubics.com

Hi Seth, ---------- > From: Seth J. Morabito <sethm(a)loomcom.com> > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> > Subject: Looking for a Q-Bus card > Date: Wednesday, March 18, 1998 5:12 PM > I've just acquired a MicroVAX 3800 (KA655-AA CPU), with various extra > bits and pieces. I know this is not _technically_ classic, but it > almost is... and heck, any QBus equipment feels pretty classic to me :) Lucky ... > > It has the factory-installed KFQSA-SA DSSI controller card in it, but > what I'd really like to do is put SCSI into this poor dear, as DSSI > drives are getting harder to come by. > > I've got a quick question for everyone first. Can a KZQSA-SF (SCSI) > and a KFQSA-SA (DSSI) controller live peacefully together on the same > Q-BUS, or must I dump one to use the other? No problem ... > > If I can use both, does anyone have a KZQSA-SF card they'd be willing to > give, trade, or sell to me? I Thats not so easy ... Most people want to keep their SCSI q-bus cards ... but you could easily buy a new one ... (appr. 800-1400 $) :-(( > -Seth

26 years, 4 months

DING DING! Back to your corners... WAS: Re: Irreverence to irrelevance

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 01:18 PM 3/18/98 -0500, you wrote: >So... on that note. I am in need of some old removable SyQuest disks for >an SQ555 drive. (the 44mb variety) Anybody know where I might find some? >The local 'puter store still sells them for $40 a pop! Take a look on eBay (http://www.ebay.com/); I see them there occasionally for reasonable prices. --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/

26 years, 4 months

Mac hi-res monitor

by A_Finney＠wfi-inc.com

Aw, damn. Sorry again guys, this was for private E.

26 years, 4 months

FAQ and the re-mailer

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 10:46 AM 3/18/98 -0600, you wrote: >Would it be a) desirable, b) possible to have the remailer append a very >short text to each outgoing message with "Read the faq: <FAQ URL>"?

26 years, 4 months

Mac hi-res monitor

by A_Finney＠wfi-inc.com

Do you still need this thing? At 10:56 AM 2/11/98 EST, you wrote: >yes! i need one! glad to pay shipping to nc. is it available? > >david > > >In a message dated 98-02-10 15:25:34 EST, you write: > ><< Does anyone need a Mac mono monitor? Model number MO400, circa 1987. Best > offer takes it, no matter how pathetic. Recipient either pays shipping or > picks it up in the LA area (it's not heavy at all, I can't imagine that ups > ground would be more than a few bucks on this thing). >> > >

26 years, 4 months

Apology, Info, Etc... (fwd)

by wirehead＠retrocomputing.com

And again, here is the message forwarded to the group. You have the power to stop this Sam....all you have to do is stop harassing me. I am acting in a completely defensive manner which means the balls in YOUR court here. We can go on like this until we're both removed from the list. And if I alone am removed then I can only hope that someone else will step up to this particular plate. At this point it's just a matter of which of us gets bored with this game first. But I think everyone can see that I'm between a rock and a hard place here. I can't give in because I said I wouldn't. My hands are tied. But you have an opportunity to be the big man here and stop harassing me. Anthony Clifton - Wirehead ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 16:10:35 -0800 (PST) From: Sam Ismail <dastar(a)wco.com> To: Wirehead Prime <wirehead(a)www.retrocomputing.com> Subject: Re: Apology, Info, Etc... Once again, you've posted an off-topic message to the mailing list. Here is the FAQ, once again, in the hopes that this time you will choose to abide by it rather than flout it out of selfishness. 1.1 What is ClassicCmp? It's a mailing list for the discussion of classic computers. Topics center on collection, restoration, and operation. It is also an appropriate place for stories and reminiscences of classic computers. Lofty discussions dealing with the philosophical and/or metaphysical aspects of computers are often better handled in private e-mail.

26 years, 4 months

Pro Anarchia (with apologies to Cicero)

by peacock＠simconv.com

>> My vote is to avoid this whole mess by having people respect the >> guidelines of the existing definition. Inspirational flash....how about everyone else on the list vote by filtering out the off topic stuff. We don't need no stinkin' rules. After all, the early microcomputer days were pure anarchy anyway. Jack Peacock

26 years, 4 months

Apology, Info, Etc... (fwd)

by wirehead＠retrocomputing.com

And again, here is a mildly edited version of your harassment for the entire group to see. I may be foolish for standing up to you but you're more foolish than me for proving correct everything that I've said about you. Anthony Clifton - Wirehead ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 15:57:32 -0800 (PST) From: Sam Ismail <dastar(a)wco.com> To: Wirehead Prime <wirehead(a)www.retrocomputing.com> Subject: Re: Apology, Info, Etc... (fwd) Again, for your information, here is the FAQ which outlines what is acceptable for discussion on ClassicCmp: 1.1 What is ClassicCmp? It's a mailing list for the discussion of classic computers. Topics center on collection, restoration, and operation. It is also an appropriate place for stories and reminiscences of classic computers. Lofty discussions dealing with the philosophical and/or metaphysical aspects of computers are often better handled in private e-mail.

26 years, 4 months

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test-drb March 1998