test-drb February 1998

test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org

147 participants
783 discussions

by francois.auradon＠worldnet.att.net

>These were commonly advertised in the back of _BYTE_ and other computer >magazines in the late 70's and early 80's. Is there any indication of >a manufacturer or brand name for the case? > >Tim. Not that I can see. The panneling is made of wood (I got i off my trunk and can take a closer look), it looks like a home job (a well done one). Fran?ois.

28 years

Apricot F1 - help, please!

by kaikal＠MICROSOFT.com

Amazingly enough, there is a ton (relatively) of F1 stuff on Apricot's UK web site file library... Kai > -----Original Message----- > From: Tony Duell [SMTP:ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk] > Sent: Thursday, February 12, 1998 10:27 AM > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: Re: Apricot F1 - help, please! > > > > > Having just obtained a 1984 Apricot F1 computer (and a lovely looking > > machine they are!) I find I can only get to the ROM boot stage. > Onscreen, I > > have Aprictot F1, a floppy icon, a chip icon, a hand pointing down, an > arrow > > I have an Apricot F1 Technical Manual here, mainly because it's the only > thing that I've found that's at all relevant to the Apricot PC which I > have. > > > pointing up, and thats about it. The arrow and hand are flashing. > > When I place disks in the drive, it spins for a bit and places an X and > a > > number on the screen. Numbers I've seen are 4, 8 and 99. So... any > proud > > OK, here's the error table from Appendix A of the manual : > > Boot ROM Error codes : > 20 ROM checksum test > 22 SIO register test > 25 RAM test > 28 Floppy Controller test > 29 CTC clock chip test > 33 Clock interrupt test > 35 Drive 0 test (can it step correctly?) > > Disk Error codes : > 2 Drive not ready, or disk removed during boot > 4 CRC error, corrupt sector > 6 Seek Error, unformatted or corrupt disk > 7 Bad media, corrupt media block > 8 Sector not found, unformatted or corrupt disk, bad load address in label > 11 bad read, corrupt data field on disk > 12 disk failure, disk hardware or media fault > 99 Non-system disk. Not a valid boot disk > > I assume you are using an Apricot boot disk. This machine, while based on > the 8086 and running MS-DOS, is certainly not a PC-clone. According to > the manual, this machine uses double-sided 80 track 720K disks (my, > older, machine uses single-sided disks). > > I don't know if boot disks for other Apricot machines will work. The > hardware is somewhat different (the F1 doesn't have the 8089 'I/O > coprocessor' (a fancy DMA chip) that's fitted on the PC). > > If you are using an Apricot boot disk, I'd firstly try a different one, > and then suspect disk drive or disk controller problems. The Apricot uses > a Western Digital 2797 disk controller. There's a few tweakers associated > with this chip as well. > > > Any help appreciated. > > Cheers > > Andrew > > > > > > -tony

28 years

Altair 8800b + drive alignment

by wts＠exo.com

I also need alignment for a drive on my 8800b. I have the documentation and procedures plus the MITS program to step to a specific track. In addition to an oscilloscope, one tool needed for alignment is a hammer! The biggest problem will be finding an alignment diskette. The Pertec drives are 32-hard-sectored eight-inch. Most eight-inch drives are soft-sectored. Assuming your drives are one drive per case, they are probably a FD410 with a DC motor. If your drives are two drives per case, they are probably FD511s with a AC motor. Both drives can read the same diskettes. I also have a supply of blank diskettes. I would appreciate any suggestions on locating an alignment diskette. I would also like to hear from anyone with working drives. I would like backup and add to my MITS software collection. Tom Sanderson wts(a)exo.com http://exo.com/~wts/wts10005.HTM Virtual Altair Museum To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu Subject: Altair 8800b + drive alignment From: "Andrew Davie" <adavie(a)mad.scientist.com Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 00:13:10 +1100 Reply-To: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu Sender: CLASSICCMP-owner(a)u.washington.edu I recently purchased an Altair 8800b from the original owner. He told me that last he used it (1984?), he was having trouble reading from the disk drive, and he was sure that it needed alignment. Apparently an alignment disk is required. I suspect an oscilloscope as well. I have two questions; 1) Can someone explain the process of aligning a disk drive, what is out of whack, and how tricky it is for a rank electronics amateur like myself 2) Where can I obtain an alignment disk, if required. Oh, I forgot to mention, the drive is an 8", the Altair model that has the same basic case and look of the Altair itself. This repair is one of the (I suspect) many that will be required to bring the Altair back to life. I've managed to get it (almost) firing up during the self-test stage, but one of the address lines doesn't behave (the light doesn't come on on A2 when I flick the switch that should light all of them, yet the light is operational at other stages). I'll get to that one later. Looks like a long, slow process. But worth it, no? Cheers Andrew

28 years

disk equals license

by manney＠nwohio.com

> AutoDesk requires you to trade the original disks from the previous > version at the dealer to order the upgrade. Not any more . I have a customer who has her old disks. >

28 years

Possible source for parts

by kyrrin2＠wizards.net

I used to feel very antagonistic towards recyclers, since I saw them as greedy sharks that would cheerfully smash any type of electronic equipment or component, no matter how potentially useful, just for a few cents worth of gold. While I don't doubt that there are some who are like that, it strikes me that they're likely only out there to make a living like the rest of us. With that in mind, I think establishing positive relationships are much more constructive. I've attached a post from a recycler. He may or may not be willing to sell useful and undamaged parts as well. Those who are interested, please contact him directly. -=-=- <snip> -=-=- On Tue, 10 Feb 1998 21:53:48 -0500, in misc.industry.electronics.marketplace you wrote: >>Path: Supernews70!Supernews73!supernews.com!howland.erols.net!news-feed1.tiac.net!posterchild2!news(a)tiac.net >>From: "Jim Sciuto" <goldtek(a)juno.com> >>Newsgroups: alt.electronics,alt.electronics.manufacture.circuitboard,aus.electronics,comp.sci.electronics,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips,japan.handmade.electronics,misc.industry.electronics.marketplace >>Subject: Millions in Gold From Old Computer Equipment >>Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 21:53:48 -0500 >>Organization: Goldtek >>Lines: 57 >>Message-ID: <6bt5cb$3ht(a)news-central.tiac.net> >>NNTP-Posting-Host: p16.ts3.danve.ma.tiac.com >>Mime-Version: 1.0 >>Content-Type: multipart/alternative; >> boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0007_01BD366E.5E1CF360" >>X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 >>X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 >>Xref: Supernews70 alt.electronics.manufacture.circuitboard:2371 aus.electronics:9618 comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips:202541 japan.handmade.electronics:133 misc.industry.electronics.marketplace:11083 >> >>This is a multi-part message in MIME format. >> >>------=_NextPart_000_0007_01BD366E.5E1CF360 >>Content-Type: text/plain; >> charset="iso-8859-1" >>Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable >> >> >> >>Learn to recycle gold. Old circuit boards, IC Chips, jewelry, etc.. can = >>be recycled and sold again. I will buy them. If you would like more = >>information visit my web site.=20 >> >>http://www.tiac.net/users/quiksand/goldtek.htm >> >>Thanks, >> >>Jim=20 -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, SysOp, The Dragon's Cave BBS (Fido 1:343/272) kyrrin2 {at} wiz<ards> d[o]t n=e=t "...No matter how hard we may wish otherwise, our science can only describe an object, event, or living creature, in our own human terms. It cannot possibly define any of them!..."

28 years

Slipsticks and calculators and a clock

by manney＠nwohio.com

Ya wanna get rid of it? manney(a)nwohio.com > possibly the TI-2500. i have one from the old college days - vintage early > 70's; definitely preceded the SR models. it is tan and has the label > "Datamath" next to the TI logo. 4-banger, no memory. perhaps most > recognizable by the orange "=" key in the lower right. So did the TI SR-10, IIRC

28 years

Past Computer Manufacturers (fwd from mailbase)

by chemif＠mbox.queen.it

At 08:16 12/02/98 -0600, you wrote: >> EXATRON Stringy floppy (used tiny carts with 1/8" wide tape) > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >I remember those. They were about the only mass storage you could >get for the ZX-81 IIRC. Didn't know they were continuous loop. SINCLAIR made endless tape "MICRODRIVE" for the ZX Spectrum >> There are at least two that used modified 8track drives. Forgot their >> names. I tried 8tr for data, it was ok but the wait even for a 3minutes >> loop was painful. > >They wouldn't seem practical for on-line storage; I was thinking more >for archival applications. Of course, the $600+ pricetags for the >FDD's available at the time were painful in of themselves. TRUE was a small upgrade comparing to the tape speed. Riccardo ???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ? Riccardo Romagnoli,collector of:CLASSIC COMPUTERS,TELETYPE UNITS,PHONE ? ? AND PHONECARDS I-47100 Forli'/Emilia-Romagna/Food Valley/ITALY ? ? Pager:DTMF PHONES=+39/16888(hear msg.and BEEP then 5130274*YOUR TEL.No.* ? ? where*=asterisk key | help visit http://www.tim.it/tldrin_eg/tlde03.html ? ? e-mail=chemif(a)mbox.queen.it ? ????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

28 years

System/34 once again

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

It now looks like I might at least get the manuals and so on for the thing, I don't know about actually running it. What I am wondering is if it's actually worth it. If I go ahead, it will be my first experience with a non-microcomputer. Is using this thing something I could learn from and be interested in, or is it something you would roll your eyes and groan over? Could someone who has used the thing tell me what it's like? Is its OS very system-level or does it have some degree of ease of use? ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

28 years

Are We Not Men? (& Women?) [OT^2] (Was Re: PDP-8/Es available [NOT!]) (fwd)

by wirehead＠retrocomputing.com

I think the following says all that need be said about this debate. I received it from Mr. Ismail this evening. Anthony Clifton - Wirehead ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 17:12:53 -0800 (PST) From: Sam Ismail <dastar(a)wco.com> To: Wirehead Prime <wirehead(a)www.retrocomputing.com> Subject: Re: Are We Not Men? (& Women?) [OT^2] (Was Re: PDP-8/Es available [NOT!]) On Sun, 25 Jan 1998, Wirehead Prime wrote: > My mail server must have been down the day you were put in charge. I, > for one, would like to hear Mr Whitson's comments on this matter. Mr. Whitson doesn't have to comment on the matter as he already has, IN THE MANNER OF A FAQ WHICH CLEARLY EXPLAINS WHAT IS AND IS NOT ACCEPTABLE DISCUSSION FOR THIS GROUP. Any drug addled moron can determine from the FAQ that the last five days of you blowing your wad over yourself is not what is considered on-topic for a discussion group on CLASSIC COMPUTERS. > Clearly there is a question of interpretation here and, seeing as how I've > received no warnings or chastisements directly from Bill or from anyone > else for that matter, I'll assume > that your opinion is either that of the minority or differs from his to > such a degree that it isn't worth the bits wasted in its transmission. No, its really just that Bill is too busy to police the discussion. Otherwise, I'm sure he'd be objecting. Your "interpretation" of what belongs in this discussion must be based on the "This-is-my-life" FAQ, because nowhere in the FAQ does it say that what you've been discussing in acceptable. It is my interpretation that anyone who would violate the rules of the FAQ so blatantly as you have is a total ass. > I suspect that you would do well to discard your copy of _Roberts Rules of > Order_ and procure a copy of _When Anger Hurts_. A (wo)man's > maturity is > defined not so much by his principles and unwavering rigidity in the face > of that which offends him as it is by the depth of his patience and his > tolerance for others in spite of his dissatisfaction with their behavior. My god, what is your problem? Don't quote any passages from some fucken self-help book to me. Please. I'd suspect that you'd do much better to read the ClassicCmp FAQ over and over until it registers with you. > As I've said, I am not only confident but resolute that the > aforementioned discussion WAS, indeed, within the parameters set forth > for the group...IE the discussion of computer collecting, which is driven > by various motivations which are worthy of discussion in and of > themselves inasmuch as they reveal why one may wish to collect one sort > of computer over another or collect computers at all and recognizing that > we all need some reassurance, from time to time, that computer collecting > is not merely a deviance or eccentricity. Yeah, that would be all fine and dandy if that is what you were discussing, but the fact is, you were telling us all about how you never went to college, you started an ISP, you became relatively successful with it, you make twice the median income of your state, you married a beautiful woman, you think drugs are bad, blah blah blah. So what!? What does THAT have to do with collecting computers? You claim to be making some point about the motivation for collecting computers, but where was it? I think your point was more to brag about your accomplishment, which I really couldn't care less about, considering: a) I don't know you, and thus don't care and b) this is not a discussion group for talking about how good we feel about ourselves. > You reveal yourself in your words and the manner in which you convey > them. Should chastisement rain down upon me by the TRUE powers that be, > then I will accept such knowing that I did so as a mature adult and not as a > sniveling whiner. I will know that however just or unjust such If you were a "mature adult" you'd realize you are out of order and would police yourself. Think about it...only a child need be chastised for breaking rules. Why not act your physical, rather than mental, age. > judgement may be, many will recognize my sincerity and respect me for > my forthright and honest nature and my respect for others. But I will NOT Blah blah blah. There you go blowing yourself again. Thus proving my point that all you are interested in is promoting yourself. Go put up a web page about yourself if you think you're such a fantastic guy. I think the only thing people will realize in this case is that you are obscenely off-topic. > accept condescension or judgement from YOU so descend from your horse and > stand amongst men (and women) as an equal rather than a self-appointed > proclaimer of what is worthy and what is unworthy of discussion. How dramatic. Are you for real? > As for your threat of spamming, it carries little weight here as it will > result in the implementation of various hacks which function to deny > incoming mail from specific mail servers or from specific addresses. How impressive. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass Coming Soon...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details!

28 years

disk equals license

by jfoust＠threedee.com

John Higginbotham <higginbo(a)netpath.net> wrote: >If I then came across a higher version for that >product and it was cheaper if you already owned a previous version (say it >takes the older version disk to upgrade to newer, then I'd expect to pay >the cheaper price, because it is upgrading the program found on my original >set of install disks, that I rightfully own. You might hope to pay the lower upgrade price, but Autodesk will surely tell you that you have someone else's copy, and without a letter of transfer, they won't sell you an upgrade. Or if the copy had already been upgraded, they'll transfer you to their anti-piracy department. >I look at it this way: If someone throws away the disks, they are giving up >their license to use the product. Not if they upgraded. It may seem ridiculous of me to pretend for the sake of argument that these disks came from a dumpster, but that's in fact the way a lot of us collectors get our stuff. :-) >I'm sure any cold blooded lawyer worth his salt could tear down my logic >and send me to the big house for having those disks and running them, but >how many would take the time, effort and money to try? That doesn't sit right with me. I don't think I should be able to reproduce someone else's software just because they can't catch me. If you have that lawyer's phone number, ask about if there are any conditions under which copyright can expire apart from the mandated number of years of protection. To help keep this on-topic, I have tried to persuade the UCSD licensing department to allow me to reproduce the Terak version of the P-System. They did once grant a right to a TI-99 user group to reproduce a P-System cartridge. I didn't have much luck because they didn't want to offend the current sole non-exclusive license holder, who is trying to sell the P-System as an alternative to Java in set-top boxes. Good luck, guys. :-) - John Jefferson Computer Museum <http://www.threedee.com/jcm>

28 years

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test-drb February 1998