test-drb December 1998

test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org

168 participants
844 discussions

Another ~1960 computer kit

by ddameron＠earthlink.net

Hi Doug and all, At 12:50 AM 12/16/98 -0600, you wrote: >On Tue, 15 Dec 1998, dave dameron wrote: > >> I was looked through some older magazines and found another computer kit >> from about 1959, 1960, a full page ad for the "geniac". It has 6 dials, each >> with 16 sets of radial holes. It's cost was US$19.95 and made in Mass. My >> guess is it was electro-mechanical, but could not tell any more from the ad. >> The ad said it could play "Nim", but that doesn't seem to be that unusual. >> Has anyone seen one or knows what it did? > >Geez, Dave, you're stealing all of my thunder. Can't you wait until I >open up my museum of personal computing? :-) O.K. :-) Well, I guess your museum will be that much more appealing. I have seen ads for many other computer kits, most have no name so I cannot describe them. The Digicomp I and Geniac seem to be more known. And yes, I would eliminate "logic trainers" too. I even saw a 74181 wired with input switches and output lamps. The time to assemble it would vastly exceed the time to exercise the 16 or so demo's! Others are very simple, such as the 3 potentiometer "3 dialer" analog "computers". I still have one I built in Jr. high school. (About age 14). > >The GENIAC was designed by Edmund Berkeley in 1955 and sold by his buddy >Oliver Garfield until the late 50's. Thomas Haddock calls the GENIAC the >first pc. He was close, but wrong. > >A nice guy by the name of Tom Boyko has a GENIAC (please, dealers, don't >bug him about selling it): > >Here are some pics of the manual: > http://www.Tom.Boyko.com/comp.htm A lot of other interesting systems, too. > >And here's an excellent Usenet account of how the GENIAC works: > http://www.dejanews.com/getdoc.xp?AN=213505518 This info is interesting. He made a card reader to input "Monopoly" data. So it appears to be 6 rotary switches made on the panel. Up to 6 poles, 16 position each. Amazing what could be "programmed"! Changing the "hard wired" connections may be a chore if its wires under the screw terminals, did not notice any place for a sort of a breadboard or "patch panel" to do this, or that one would fit the scope of it anyway. Thanks for all the information. -Dave

25 years, 7 months

disk drive database

by roblwill＠usaor.net

The site seems to work fine for me without any login... I'm running IE4.0. -- -Jason Willgruber (roblwill(a)usaor.net) ICQ#: 1730318 <http://members.tripod.com/general_1> -----Original Message----- From: Zane H. Healy <healyzh(a)aracnet.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Wednesday, December 16, 1998 8:09 PM Subject: Re: disk drive database >>A week ago, someone was asking for hard disk params and someone else posted >>a really good web site with all kinds of disks. Naturally I forgot to >>bookmark it. Could someone repeat that URL, please? > >That would have been me that posted it, but <sniff> <sniff> it doesn't >matter that you forgot to bookmark it from the looks of things <sniff>. I >just went to http://www.blue-planet.com/tech/ and they've got some kind of >login, but no clue as to what it's about <sniff>. > >This really sucks! This was one of the most useful sites I've run across, >I REALLY am hoping it's some kind of configuration mistake! > > Zane >| Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | >| healyzh(a)aracnet.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | >| healyzh(a)holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | >+----------------------------------+----------------------------+ >| Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | >| and Zane's Computer Museum. | >| http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | >

25 years, 7 months

SOL feeding frenzy?

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 04:19 PM 12/15/98 -0500, you wrote: >there are actually people trying to make money off this hobby. And this is bad? In the world of classic Land Rovers (mine turns 40 next year), I and all the other enthusiasts would be up the proverbial creek were it not for people out to make a buck -- the parts dealers, mechanics, magazines, show producers, rally arrangers, etc. Where would classic computers be without thrift shops, surplus dealers, jameco, digi-key(?), heck, even eBay? --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/

25 years, 7 months

unencoded keyboard

by jim＠calico.litterbox.com

Was someone here looking for un-encoded keyboards? If so, Alltronics has them for $1.99 US. 43 keys, 5.5 inches by 2 inches. www.alltronics.com -- Jim Strickland jim(a)DIESPAMMERSCUMcalico.litterbox.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Vote Meadocrat! Bill and Opus in 2000 - Who ELSE is there? -----------------------------------------------------------------------

25 years, 7 months

Computer paint jobs (was Re: SOL feeding frenzy?)

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 10:41 PM 12/15/98 -0500, you wrote: >Y'know, many times I've thought of painting computers, but never to >"fake" a classic, merely to make a computer I liked look good. For >instance, I never liked the dingy (and getting dingier every year) >off-white color of the TRS-80 Model 16 and most later Tandy There was some discussion a while back on the [TRS-80 Model 100] m100 list about that -- some one (a college kid iirc) had taken his apart and used purple(?) spray paint to add a cool design to the case. I always thought that was cool, but I haven't come across a computer I feel comfortable doing that to. Yet. --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/

25 years, 7 months

Another ~1960 computer kit - Philips?

by Innfogra＠aol.com

In a message dated 12/16/98 1:43:06 PM Pacific Standard Time, ard(a)p850ug1.demon.co.uk writes: > > The other is, I think, considerably rarer. It was made by Philips, and > called the CL1600 series. It consists of a number of logic blocks that > can be wired (using patch leads) as a general 3-input logic gate. There > are 3 input sockets (A,B,C), one output socket (F) with a lamp next to > it, and 8 sockets to program the logic function, Another module, the same > size contained a battery-operated PSU and 6 input switches I think I might have a large version of this. I considered it a logic trainer, not a computer. The description of one of the blocks is the same. "There are 3 input sockets (A,B,C), one output socket (F) with a lamp next to it. Mine are white, about 2" square. The leads are black with gold tips of three varying lengths. I also have 6 different logic modules. I have a total of 30 to 50 modules and a couple of hundred leads. The large plug board is about 2' X 3' and powered by 120V AC. I haven't checked the power supply but I think the voltage on the logic units is about 2 or 3 volts. The whole assembly fits in its own wood travel case with handles. I have never found any info about this. There is no manufacturer's label anywhere on the units. I will try to get pictures of this in the next few days. Thurs. & Fri. I am out of town, it may wait till I return. > > There were some extension modules that I never had. One seemed to be the > same logic module with a relay as the output in place of the lamp. You > could control little model motors, etc using it. Another was a flip-flop > module. And there were probably others. >

25 years, 7 months

Filetypes (was Re: Xerox)

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< If you look through memory, you can find the string BARSBAIT. < < > The Commodore's filetypes are silly. PRG, SEQ and USR are all just seq < > Only REL is truly different. generally in OS design there are only a few significant extensions (filetypes). the most common are: .EXE (executable, generally fixed address) nearly always a binary loaded at a nominal standard address. .COM also executeable but vary in composition Can be a binary, often in DEC systems it's a command file (SCRIPT). .SYS commonly drivers or system specific and usually loads differently (unique address or relocated). Most others are application specific and the OS treats them as "files" and it's up to the apps to do the right thing. Clearly Windows has carried that to the opposing extreme such that the extension determines the action but that is not at the file level it's at the command processor (GUI) level. Likely the extreme at the other end of the spectrum is CP/M-80 where .com is significant to the command processor and all others are only significant to apps. It allows for TYPE FOO.COM where FOO.COM is a binary that would load at 100H and looks like Greek on a vt100. In most OSs at the basic file level (FILE SYSTEM) one type is the same as another. the differentiation often occured at a higher level where the user command are interpreted and acted on. Exceptions abound but, they often do not add any value and are system specific. One that comes to mind is NS* DOS and the OS/FileSystem and command processor are so tightly bound that they live as only monolithic 2.5K(or so) block of code. It has some economies but ofthen its simplicity is a trade off. An alternate to this is having file information inside the file as a header block that binds the file to it's respective application. Correct me someone but I think the Apple MAC OS does this. It removes the need for the extension driving the application. Allison

25 years, 7 months

Free PDP-8/10/11 (and related hardware) manuals (&boards)

by nabil＠teleport.com

Free (*) manuals, maybe some hardware too. Multiple sets of ASR-33 teletype maintainance volumes and print sets. Dynex Series 6000 Disk Drive instruction (/maint) manual. System Industries Model 3040 manual. System Industries Modem 3051 print set. (I have the OMNIBUS card for these around here someplace too.) Diablo Series 40 print set & manual. Plessy PM-80 (or something like that) prints set & manual (I think I have one or two of the cards too), it's OMNIBUS core memory. Four trays of PDP-11 paper-tape diagnostics. Some kind of Roytron/Litton OEM punch manual (I need to look at this one and make sure it's not something in a DEC box). PDP11 PAL/EDIT/ODT/PIP/LINK/LIBR manual. PDP-8/e (ONLY!) maintainance manual Vol 1. (note: old version!) PDP10 reference handbook. (big) Decsystem 10 TECO Decsystem 10 Users Handbook, 2nd ed (big) EMAIL replies to me, not to the newsgroup or mailing list. (*): Free for the cost of shipping. I will use subjective criteria in resolving between multiple requesters for the same material. I apologize in advance if I do not personally reply to you. -- Aaron Nabil nabil(a)teleport.com

25 years, 7 months

Info on Laser 128

by pctech＠davidbowie.com

Someone i know came across this machine and asked if i could restore it.It is a Laser 128 I know it is an Apple II clone but what else can anyone tell me about it.I have cleaned this thing out(it was filthy)But cant start it up because i have no power cord to do so any info will be of great help Brian

25 years, 7 months

"Single instance" machines

by foxnhare＠goldrush.com

> From: "Hans Franke" <Hans.Franke(a)mch20.sbs.de> > Subject: Re: "Single instance" machines > > ::Actually, the VIC-20's seem to be fairly hard to get now days. > > > Not that difficult. They appear on eBay from time to time and a place around > > here has a few refurbished models in stock. They *do* seem to inspire more > > loyalty to them than the 64 did, though, for some inexplicable reason. > > Don't forget: the V(I)C-20 was a bit faster and a way better > design then the C64. Way better? I would say simpler, the 64 was more complex in design but was par woith the machines of the time (Atari and Apple) where the VIC-20 was lagging at that point. And you guys mention graphics which were good, but it took YEARS for anyone to match the 64 in the sound depertment (first the Amiga then later the Soundblaster - was about to say IBM, but the big computer co.s had nothing to do with quality sound development on that platform.) Though it is sure easy to read that 22x23 character screen! I did with a VIC-20 and a datasette for a year, it sure teaches one to code tight. In reference to the memory question some VIC/VC REUs went to 24k (like the MSD one I have here), but there was also the Aprotek RAM expander/cartridge expander which filled every gap, all the contiguous memory (including the 3k portion in lower RAM) as well as the upper 8K Game ROM space. 32k? I think they gave it a bigger number, maybe by adding the 5k and the ROMS to the 'total memory', regardless, the Aprotek one was the ultimate in VIC-20 expanders... > And by the way, to catch up with the title - is there any > other Commodore B500 around, or a Pascal Microengine ? I hear of more of the P/B500 in europe then here, actually in the U.S. I think there are maybe three or so around, since they never were oficially released past the late prototype stage (due to one of Commodore's run-ins with the FCC). Dunno how many (if any) they sold in europe. 00101110010101100101011001000110 > From: jeff.kaneko(a)juno.com (Jeffrey l Kaneko) > Subject: Re: "Single instance" machines > > That's the story I heard. > The original name Commodore chose for the VIC was 'Vixen'. Before that the 'color computer' Commodore was developing was referred to as the TOI. I have read in one place that the TOI unit used a different video chip (recommended by Peddle?), but it could just be a rumor. I recall my first seeing the TOI article in a Cursor tape newsletter (paper portion), anyone got that issue?

25 years, 7 months

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test-drb December 1998