test-drb December 1998

test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org

168 participants
844 discussions

by jfoust＠threedee.com

At 08:09 PM 12/15/98 -0600, Doug Yowza wrote: >Unfortunately, there's little correlation. I routinely spent that or more >on stock certificates, but that doesn't mean I hold them very long. Tony Duell said "Doesn't that rather depend who the people are?", and you say something similar, and I must say I agree - but my point is, unless you know something about the character of these buyers, you don't know whether they're planning on preserving the machine or not. To use my deflated Microsoft millionaire example, that person is perfectly capable of paying $6K for an Altair and then paying someone to insure it's up and running. Is the "Computer rescue squad" concept only good for acquiring machines, or is it for hire to help keep machines alive? If an old machine's ROMs fail while it's being held by a speculator, chances are they'll pay to have it fixed, if the price for a working machine is significantly higher. Overall, I think these (supposed) higher prices are a Good Thing for the preservation of old computers. It means fewer will be scrapped, and more people will know they should be saved, either for their cash value, or for their sentimental value, or both. And again I must emphasize, tales of these inflated sale prices are highly anecdotal and not fact-checked. Perhaps we should sooth our souls by believing these buyers are conscientious instead of uncaring. With the dearth of evidence or direct testimony, we might as well wear rose-colored glasses. >BTW, have you seen my Sol museum? > http://www.yowza.com/classiccmp/sol/ Hmm, good idea. The unscrupulous could set up fake computer museums, testifying to their good character, placing poor quality but honest photos showing the lovingly restored and maintained machines, and then beg for donations of cash and old computers. >I routinely spent that or more >on stock certificates, but that doesn't mean I hold them very long. You E*Trade speculators, you're destroying the good ol' stock broker lifestyle, playing day trader, denying an honest commission to a starving professional - and I bet you don't even care about the fate of Netscape or AOL or Xoom, do you, as long as you're making a profit? :-) - John

27 years, 1 month

Xerox

by kurtkilg＠geocities.com

Well, I'm afraid I didn't understand your reply about how Star was better than other UIs, Hans (sorry I can't quote the message). I can't see how a UI could really completely obscure the hardware of a machine (I think that's what you meant). What if you need to save to a floppy disk? How do you obscure the physical machine in that? I haven't really looked at smalltalk, but here I have a 1983 issue of Popular Computing that describes it. It shows a sample which sadly makes little sense to an unenlightened one :( Is there a free version of Smalltalk for the PC that you would recommend for learning? How does smalltalk compare to LISP? I've got a book on LISP that I haven't looked through due to lack of time. Also, you said that OS/2 is more OO than others. Which version? I have 2.0 here and not only is it slower than molasses, it's basically the same as Windows 95 in terms of design, implementation, and so on. ---------------------------------------------------- Max Eskin | kurtkilgor(a)bigfoot.com | AOL: kurtkilgor

27 years, 1 month

OT but free*

by dburrows＠netpath.net

I just got a few 750's in without chargers and the batteries are dead. I would like to get this for my neice if possible. I got the thinkpads for them. I could give you my FEDX, Airborne, or UPS # if that would make things any easier. Please email me off list with your phone # so I can call to discuss. Thanks Dan Burrows 336-376-0468 dburrows(a)netpath.net >I've got an IBM Dock I that works with their Thinkpad laptops (750x series) >that is free to anyone who will pick it up in Sunnyvale CA, $10 + shipping >if you ask me to go down to UPS at this time of year :-) > >--Chuck > >

27 years, 1 month

"Single instance" machines

by foxnhare＠goldrush.com

> From: "Hans Franke" <Hans.Franke(a)mch20.sbs.de> > Subject: Re: "Single instance" machines > > > > And by the way, to catch up with the title - is there any > > > other Commodore B500 around, or a Pascal Microengine ? > > > I hear of more of the P/B500 in europe then here, actually in the U.S. I think > > there are maybe three or so around, since they never were oficially released > > past the late prototype stage (due to one of Commodore's run-ins with the > > FCC). Dunno how many (if any) they sold in europe. > > I never have seen any B500 beside mine, but I know the P500 > story - just the B500 is more like the B128/CBM 600. So no joystick ports, or VIC-II chip? Hmm, from examinging the PCB, I wonder if it is a universal design, cause there are a bunch of unused pads here and there (looks like it could sport 128k, and there was another connector pad (besides the co-processor one), maybe for more RAM? If anyone has a B-128 handy; pop it open, the joyport sockets would be in the far left-hand corner, (if you look from the 'front' of the board) I've been curious about this. :/ 0010111101101010011110000101001 > From: "Hans Franke" <Hans.Franke(a)mch20.sbs.de> > Subject: Re: "Single instance" machines > > CBM 9000 aka MMF aka SuperPET - still kind of a dream for most > commo collectors (like the 900). Other than the most desired > rare Commodores, the 9000 was a production unit and supported. Also alot of schools (secondary and more so, colleges) bought them. 0001010110101001001001110101001010 Here is a clip from an E-Mail I had received from one of the 900 designers! > >> I worked for Commodore back in then. > > > >Must have been something, Commodore was doing pretty well in the home computer > >wars then. > > It was fun :-) I live in Denmark and we managed to put a C64 under every > other xmas-tree that one year (we assumed that every house had a tree) > > >> I notice you havn't got any of the CBM-900 computers ? > > > >I have never heard of them, I am assuming they are related to the 700 series? > >The only thing I got so far in that line (B/P series) is the P-500, rare in > >itself. Maybe one day I'll get more of those no rush though, I am a frugal > >collector. :) > > The 900 was probably commodores biggest mistake, they canned it you see. > It was a Z8001 based UNIX (Actually Mark Williams "Coherent") workstation > with a BW graphical display (I think it did close to 1M pixels). > > Unfortunately they had to choose between the 900 and the amiga, if they > had stuck to the 900 they would have owned the UNIX workstation market. > > The amiga wasn't bad either mind you. > > -- > Poul-Henning Kamp FreeBSD coreteam member > /////////////// "Real hackers run -current on their laptop." > "ttyv0" -- What UNIX calls a $20K state-of-the-art, 3D, hi-res color terminal 000101001010011010100100110 > From: Roger Merchberger <zmerch(a)30below.com> > Subject: Re: Value > Common classics are hard to come by around here -- the closest thing to > kinda rare I have is (that I know of): > > Trackball for an Atari 5200 (serial #786) > Commodore B-128 (local college garage sale) > 2 Superbrains (local college garage sale; anybody have boot disks???) > Tandy 600 (sent to me by a good friend in California 'cause it didn't work) > > I honestly don't know if these are actually rare... almost everything up > here is rare (to me) and all of this wild, wicked stuff like OSI > Challengers, Ohio Scientific, and who knows what... I don't think they are all that rare, but the B-128 and the Superbrains are probably a couple of the more interesting classic computers...

27 years, 1 month

RSX-11M site? Was: Re: Emulex doc archive site gone now . . .

by CLASSICCMP＠trailing-edge.com

>So, to get to the theme of the revised Subject line, anybody know of a similar >RSX-11M resource online? I'm not sure exactly what you want when you mean "similar", but all the RSX-11 DECUS SIG tapes are online at ftp://sunsite.unc.edu/pub/academic/computer-science/history/pdp-11/rsx/decu… You'll find the index to each SIG tape there, as well as the outputs of a few useful searches (like a search for all references to the MultiTasker newsletter.) >For that matter, who are the on-list RSX-11 experts (like our Megan is to >RT-11)? If you want to know about industrial process control under RSX-11M, I can point you to a few good resources. Be prepared to pay between $100 and $200/hr for the experts. -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927

27 years, 1 month

anyone need a C64?

by pctech＠davidbowie.com

How about $25.00 for both. -----Original Message----- From: SUPRDAVE(a)aol.com <SUPRDAVE(a)aol.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Tuesday, December 15, 1998 7:54 PM Subject: anyone need a C64? >ive got two i want to sell. one has the standard brown keys, but the other has >white keys instead and a white power supply. the insert/del key is broken off, >but included. the C64 with the normal colours is complete. either one will >come with a power supply. both presumed working, but i have not a video cable >to verify video. make a whimsical offer including shipping from NC. > >david

27 years, 1 month

OT Netscape help was Re: Neat time-wasters for DEC enthusiasts

by Watzman＠ibm.net

OK, I'm having a problem with the list server. What do I send to classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu to get the digest form instead of individual messages ? I'm apparently getting the syntax wrong (I'm trying "Set classiccmp digest") Thanks, Barry Watzman

27 years, 1 month

SOL feeding frenzy?

by SUPRDAVE＠aol.com

In a message dated 12/16/98 9:01:17 AM EST, Hans.Franke(a)mch20.sbs.de writes: << Doug der Sandl?we. (Sandlion ? I don't know the exact english term. It is a small insect, that digs a hole into sand, like a funnel/crater and waits on below the ground until an ant or similar creature steps into the hole and is traped by the sliding sand :) Gruss Hans >> also called antlion, or doodle-bug down here in the south, LOL.

27 years, 1 month

Computer paint jobs (was Re: SOL feeding frenzy?)

by roblwill＠usaor.net

>Y'know, many times I've thought of painting computers, but never to >"fake" a classic, merely to make a computer I liked look good. For >instance, I never liked the dingy (and getting dingier every year) >off-white color of the TRS-80 Model 16 and most later Tandy >equipment. I always thought a Model 4, a 6000HD or a Tandy 2000 >would benefit greatly with a trip to the local Earl Scheib outlet >for some nice metalflake or pearlescent coating. No chrome. >-- I have a Compaq laptop that I had repainted because it was all covered from some sort of soot or something. It's not black, with silver accents. I had another computer that someone actually DID have chrome plating put on it (I don't know how). It was a Tandy 1110HD laptop. It looked pretty neat, after a black keyboard was put into it. Unfortunately, it was dropped, and the screen shattered (I was letting someone borrow it). I got it back, didn't worry about it much, because I never really used it that often. I eventually ended up selling it for $30 at a flea market, as-was because I found out it wasn't really worth it to get a new screen for it. Now, if it was an 1800, I would have bought a new screen for it... -- -Jason Willgruber (roblwill(a)usaor.net) ICQ#: 1730318 <http://members.tripod.com/general_1>

27 years, 1 month

Value

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 12:14 PM 12/13/98 -0800, you wrote: >So assuming you had, lets say, the Polymorphic Business plan, how would you >put a value on it? While I don't know how many were made let alone still Surely you realize that anything Sam doesn't have is worth $5 max, while anything he has more than 2 of is worth thousands... 8^) >more likely to be found in those areas than areas like, lets say, the >Michigan Upper Pennisula (sp?.) So what is the difference in availability >of something between the two areas? How would that affect the price (value) >of a given item in the two areas? It's not so much the item's location as it is the *buyer's* location. I go to a fair number of antique shows (no computers yet) looking for Donald Duck stuff. I also go to Disneyland a fair bit. I regularly see things like buttons, flatware, stuffed animals for sale at shows for twice what they are *currently* available for at the park. Justification? The buyers aren't at Disneyland. They have the choice of paying $20 for an stuffed Donald Duck that is marked $12 on the tag, or buying a $50+ plane ticket and a $35+ Disneyland ticket to get the same item. Similary, people who aren't here in the valley, or aren't able to spend all day running around to thrift shops instead of working, are willing to pay a little more. I live in San Francisco, which should be pretty good for finding old computers, but I have to work for a living, and when I'm not working, I spend my time with either my dad or my girlfriend (or both.) So, what little free time I have available to me is usually the wee hours in the morning, and the only place open is eBay. Other people may have other reasons for not scouring 200 thrift shops/day: physical challenges, location, lack of knowledge, etc. Also, some folks may not be looking for something for the same reasons -- sure, we collect 'em, and may even play with 'em, but there are people out there who actually *use* old computers (like someone's friend with the HX-20) and may not even consider the fact that other people would consider them thrift shop fodder. So while the ideal thing to do is find your SOL's and Altairs at your neighborhood garage sales or church bazaars for $5, not everyone is able to do that. Saying they're stupid because of it, or unreasonable, is unfair. P.S., there are a lot of people out there who would think all of us insane for spending any amount on old computers, not to mention filling our homes and offices with them. Likewise, I've had people look at me strange when I've admitted paying several dollars for a single clothing button, or hundreds of dollars for some old toy. To some, my mother's prize Steinway piano is no better than her old Baldwin Acrosonic, and would be just as happy with the piano patch on their sound card. Chaque a' son gout, the lady said as she kissed the cow. 8^) --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/

27 years, 1 month

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test-drb December 1998