> Just for the hell of it, I thought I'd make a list of the Top 10 Holy Grails
> of classic microcomputer computer collecting. This is the "Rembrandt in the
> Attic" sort of stuff. These are roughly in my opinionated order, but
> somewhat randomly ordered:
> 1. The Altair prototype that was to be the cover photo for Popular
> Electronics but was lost in shipment
> 2. Xerox Alto
> 3. Mark 8
> 4. Scelbi 8H
> 5. Kenbak-1
> 6. Micral 8008
> 7. Apple I
> 8. An unassembled Altair 8800 Kit
> 9. Busicom Japan Intel 4004-based Calculator
> 10. IBM 5100
Hmm Breaking down to just 10 is hard, but when
it comes to the 'most desirable' ones, I would
personaly add at #1 the wooden PET prototype.
And eventualy the ATARI-ST prototype boards.
Gruss
H.
--
Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut
HRK
>> Babbage was not the first to come up with the idea of a computer, but you
>> can trace the development of modern computers back to him. You can't do
>> anything like that with Holt's chip -- it had no influence. Maybe there
>> were other Big Bangs before The Big Bang, but if they didn't create a
>> Universe, nobody cares.
> I think this attitude in general carelessly disregards an amazing body of
> work.
I always belives it's a kind of anglo american attitude
toward non US (and GB) archievments around the world, but
I'm glad to see that it's even comon within.
SCNR
Gruss
H.
--
Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut
HRK
On Tue, 6 Oct 1998, Scott Ware wrote:
> How about the Expander? It's an S-100 box designed by Lee Felsenstein
> that's sort of a cross between a SOL-20 and a TRS-80 model 1, only
> Swedish. The only information I've been able to find on this machine is
> in Kip Crosby's CHAC interview with Lee Felsenstein in Analytical Engine
> 3.2. According to the information in the interview, 200 Expanders were
> made, but the order was never paid for, so only "a few" made it into the
> public.
Lee touched on this at VCF 1.0. He described the project a little bit:
how it came about and what happened to it. The VCF 1.0 talks will be
available for purchase on tape before the end of the year (I PROMISE!)
> http://xtal.pharm.nwu.edu/~ware/collection/machines/expander.html
Looks very cool.
Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ever onward.
Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0
See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details!
[Last web site update: 09/21/98]
< > Babbage was not the first to come up with the idea of a computer, but
< > can trace the development of modern computers back to him. You can't
< > anything like that with Holt's chip -- it had no influence. Maybe the
< > were other Big Bangs before The Big Bang, but if they didn't create a
< > Universe, nobody cares.
Prior to Holts chip, the F14 CADC there wer lesser chips. All of them
were on a line started in the late 50s with a simple IC of no real
usefulness. The little bangs were the devlopment of processes that alloed
more transistors to a die, developing MOSFET technology that were more
compact and better suited to planar circuits on the die. Things like
well isolation all contributed and happend on lesser circuits than a CPU.
We are talking about commonly used chips like gates, adders, shift
registers, rams and ROMS.
Lets face it, the 8008 would have been a burp instead of a bang if the
ROM and RAM chips weren't there too!
< I think this attitude in general carelessly disregards an amazing body o
< work. In fact, I think people do care. I'm not so quick to sweep
My whole point.
< historical facts underneath the carpet simply as a matter of convenience
< I'd rather know the complete and true story, and not just the easiest on
< to remember.
<
< Furthermore, you are are discounting the AMI microprocessors of the
< early 70s, which Holt went on to design after the F14 CADC, and the
< influence those chips may have had on later designs.
Tron was done with a Foonly PDP10 clone.
I believe the first microcomputer to run Unix was the DEC PDP11/03 and
11/23 at At&T's Bell Labs (see the papers on mini-unix).
Bill
+---------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Bill and/or Carolyn Pechter | pechter(a)shell.monmouth.com |
| Bill Gates is a Persian cat and a monocle away from being a villain in |
| a James Bond movie -- Dennis Miller |
+---------------------------------------------------------------------------+
So to complete this train of thought, Intel was the inflationary
period and Microsoft would be the infinite expansion and eventual
heat death of the universe?
(Sorry, couldn't resist)
-----Original Message-----
From: Doug Yowza [SMTP:yowza@yowza.com]
Sent: Tuesday, October 06, 1998 3:51 AM
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
Subject: Re: Corrections to trivia
On Tue, 6 Oct 1998, Sam Ismail wrote:
>I still think the SLF is
> a "microprocessor", and quite likely the first even though you think
> that's not important (there's gotta be a Big Bang somewhere).
The Big Bang was named Babbage. Intel supplied the ammunition for a
revolution: cheap computers. The high level of integration was what
enabled them to make it cheap, and they commercialized it. The level of
integration is the salient feature of the chip, but not the main feature
of the important event.
Babbage was not the first to come up with the idea of a computer, but you
can trace the development of modern computers back to him. You can't do
anything like that with Holt's chip -- it had no influence. Maybe there
were other Big Bangs before The Big Bang, but if they didn't create a
Universe, nobody cares.
-- Doug
At 06:15 PM 10/5/98 -0800, Zane H. Healy wrote:
>>On Mon, 5 Oct 1998, Cameron Kaiser wrote:
>>
>>> ::
>>> ::Somebody's posted a Commodore C65 prototype on eBay. 4 days left and the
>>> ::bidding is at $1025.
>>> ::
>>>
>>> That's nothing. The last one sold went for $1400. (!)
>>
>>Well, how many of these "prototypes" exist? Has anyone authenticated
>>these things?
>
>There was more like an entire production run of them. IIRC there are/were
>several hundred of them. Or maybe he's selling a prototype of the ones
>that were actaully made. The Commodore A3000+ prototypes sound more
>interesting, there are only 3 of them I believe. Still the C65 would have
>been interesting.
>
Yeah, the last estimate I saw put the number at just under 1,000 made in all.
You used to be able to buy them from a company that sold C= parts for something
like $169. (Or you could fish them out of the dumpsters out on Wilson drive
if you got there on the right day.)
Word is that they were 65816 based (or somesuch) and looked *sorta* like an
Amiga 500 with a 3 1/2 floppy built in. I don't think they were compatible
with the 64.
Anyways, the CBM FAQ has more info, haven't read it lately.
Les
The Big Bang was named Babbage. Intel supplied the ammunition for a
< revolution: cheap computers. The high level of integration was what
No Intel never made a cheap computer. They made CPUs, Memory and support
chips. The MCS. MDS, intellect even the SDKs were anything but cheap.
< enabled them to make it cheap, and they commercialized it. The level o
< integration is the salient feature of the chip, but not the main featur
< of the important event.
It's everything as the 8008 hit the level of integration needed to produce
a viable general purpose commercial cpu.
For example why is it that prople are hunting for MARK-8 and Kenbec's
when the most likely find (greatest quantity) for 8008 machines is a
MCS-8 from intel?!?!
This is not unlike the PDP-8. the PDP-8 really wasn't the first small
computer. It was the first to be manufactured in large quantities at
low cost and that it was a member of a family that spanned many years
(PDP-5, 8, 8I, 8E, 8A DECmate).
Allison
Is there a way to get RSX-11M V4.2 to provide a list of CSR's in use on the
system? IIRC RT-11 will provide them, but I've not figured out how to get
RSX to.
Zane
| Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator |
| healyzh(a)ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast |
| healyzh(a)holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector |
+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
| Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, |
| and Zane's Computer Museum. |
| http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ |
