- test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org - classiccmp.org

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< Which was false, anyhow. The entire CPU was on the 3850 chip. But you < seemed to be making the claim that the 3850 wasn't a single-chip < microprocessor because it didn't contain the complete CPU. I was statin It isn't a single chip microprocessor like it's cousin the 3870. It's definately in the multichip (IE: required external chips to be a complete system). < that the 3850 CPU was as complete as the 8080, so if you are going to cl < that the 3850 wasn't a single-chip microprocessor, in order to be consis < you'll have to make the same claim about the 8080. You are confused. The 8080 is a single chip cpu that requires support chips. The F8 is a single chip cpu that requires support chips. The 3870 however (or 8048) are single chip microprocessors. See the subtle difference? Also the F8 is not as complete a cpu as the 8080 as it really has to have a lost of stuff around it or special chips to get a nominal data/address bus to interface to convential rams/roms. Allison

27 years, 8 months

3
2
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Top 10 Holy Grails of Classic Microcomputer Collecting

by kaikal＠MICROSOFT.com

Funny you should mention the OSI's, a saintly coworker just gave me a C4P-MF and a C3D today. The C3D is the one you were thinking of with the 3 different CPU's. I also 'always wanted' a CompuColor II, and finally found one last year, it's REALLY rare. http://www.geocities.com/~compcloset/CompuColorII.htm Still looking for a Sorcerer, but I have a couple of leads from the VCF. One gentleman has two of 'em, one of which has the S-100 box. Hasn't replied to my email yet though... Kai -----Original Message----- From: David Williams [mailto:dlw@trailingedge.com] Sent: Tuesday, October 06, 1998 3:20 PM To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Subject: RE: Top 10 Holy Grails of Classic Microcomputer Collecting On 6 Oct 98, at 16:48, Matt Pritchard wrote: > 1) Compucolor 2 (The Model with floppy disk in the monitor housing) > - I let one of these, working w/ software slip through my hands about > 4-5 > years ago That's one I played with once back in the dark ages and I wish I could find another. I have talked to people who worked there who still had a couple in the attic but didn't feel like digging them out and sending them to me, too much trouble. :-( > 2) an Exidy Sorcerer Finally got one and love it. Now if work would stop sending me around the country I could get some work done on the expansion box for it. >3) Ohio Scientific Challenger 4p (?) I'd be happy right now with any Ohio Scientific system. Though I'd really like the one, can't find my notes for the model, which had 3 processors. A 6502, Z-80 and 680x if I recall. Have the notes on it around here somewhere. Of course I'd add all of Kai's to the list too but that would throw me over 10. ----- David Williams - Computer Packrat dlw(a)trailingedge.com http://www.trailingedge.com

27 years, 8 months

4
3
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New Acquisitions

by hhacker＠gte.net

I worked at the Los Angeles Air Force Base in the mid 80's and one of the requirements for personal computers of the time was called TEMPEST. Computers meeting the TEMPEST specification contained such hardware as necessary in order to ensure that electromagnetic radiation emitted from the computer would not be able to be monitored in such a way as to determine the use to which the computer was being put. More simply, one would not be able to eavesdrop on the computer user, since there would be no discernable message in any electromagnetic radiation coming from the computer. Perhaps this is what you have. This would explain the extra shielding on cables and the double walled chassis. -----Original Message----- From: Marvin <marvin(a)rain.org> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Saturday, October 10, 1998 12:10 AM Subject: New Acquisitions >We've all heard talk about how great amateur radio events are for finding >good stuff. Tonight, I went to the Ventura Amateur Radio Club annual >auction and picked up some interesting stuff. > >$ 1.00 IBM TPC (Tempest version of the IBM PC) >$ 5.00 Commodore 16 clean in the original box >$ 5.00 NEC PC-8201A in the original box >$ 1.00 Apple //e system w/ monitor, printer, numeric keypad >$ 2.00 Apple //e system w/ monitor, printer >$10.00 Commodore System w/ 1702 monitor, printer, etc. >$ 1.00 Collection of Apple ][ software > >BTW, I have never seen (or heard) of the IBM TPC before. Anyone know how >common these things are? Both the monitor and keyboard have shielded cables >running to the box (as expected) and it looks like the box itself is a box >within a box.

27 years, 8 months

1
0
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New Find

by lwalker＠mail.interlog.com

I keep adding to my collection regularly but this is notable. A Kaypro II to go with my (as yet non-functioning) Kaypro 2X. It was in an incredibly jammed little junk-store which remains unplumbed by me for now. In Sam's catergization scheme ,this would rate as a cockroach-market There were 2 walls piled high in a narrow shop with everything imagineable , leather jackets, jeans and toasters just tossed in a pile on top of each other with barely enough room to get between. Saw lots of old printers and monitors but at the bottom of one pile I could barely discern that tell-tale Darth Vader Blue form. It was dusty and dirty on the outside but clean-uppable and when I opened it up at home the KB was impeccably clean. It had cardboard inserts to protect the fdds, and the A drive's insert had a bill for $565 ($185 parts) with the owners name and phone number. I surmise the owner was told the price and never reclaimed it. Sounds like I have a Refurbished machine here ! :^)) ciao larry lwalker(a)interlog.com

27 years, 8 months

1
0
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Top 10 Holy Grails of Classic Microcomputer Collecting

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 03:16 PM 10/7/98 +1000, you wrote: >What is the difference between the PC-8201 and the PC-8201A? I've got two >PC-8201As, and what *seems* to be an PC-8201. It's a different, bronze, >colour and has "NEC PC-8201" printed on the top left-hand corner. However, >the silver sticker on the bottom of the computer says it is a PC-8201A. The most obvious difference is the japanese characters on the keyboard. The "[" key in the lower right corner (next to the spacebar) is instead a toggle key (like capslock or grph) that switches into japanese mode. It also says "personal computer" under PC-8201 next to the screen, whereas my 8201a doesn't. On the back, the silver sticker is written in japanese. --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/

27 years, 8 months

3
2
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Internet Question

by rax＠warbaby.com

Does anyone remember the cost of internet access/online time via Compuserve in the 80s ? I need to give a comparison of today's cost of sending a graphics file. R. -- Warbaby The WebSite. The Domain. The Empire. http://www.warbaby.com The MonkeyPool WebSite Content Development http://www.monkeypool.com Once you get the nose on, the rest is just makeup.

27 years, 8 months

4
3
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FW: VS2000 Color Video Board for shipping cost.

by kyrrin＠my-dejanews.com

Check this out... -=-=- <snip> -=-=- From: "Mike O'Malley" <mike_omalley(a)usa.net> Newsgroups: comp.os.vms Subject: VAXstation 2000 Hardware Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1998 11:37:36 -0600 Organization: Flashnet Communications, http://www.flash.net Lines: 13 Message-ID: <6vo5ri$m76$1(a)excalibur.flash.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: p69.amax2.dialup.abq2.flash.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express for Macintosh - 4.01 (295) Path: blushng.jps.net!news.eli.net!news-sea-20.sprintlink.net!207.12.55.130!news-west.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!howland.erols.net!nntprelay.mathworks.com!nntp.flash.net!excalibur.flash.net!not-for-mail I have one VAXstation 2000 board. - VS40X 4 Plane Color Graphics You want it, I send it. You pay the shipping. Please send request to mike_omalley(a)usa.net ...Mike ---------------- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner and head honcho, Blue Feather Technologies -- kyrrin (at) jps [dot] net Web: http://table.jps.net/~kyrrin "...No matter how we may wish otherwise, our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot possibly define any of them..."

27 years, 8 months

1
0
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Misc.

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< You need to add my favorite - Intersil's Intercept Jr. Good addition for an SBC, I wouldn't mind having on either. I do have the intersil 6960 sampler board. < Allison said: < >7. Intel prompt-48 < < I have one of those I could trade. < The only docs I have are 5 pages in the back of the MCS-48 < manual. Never have tried powering it up. Oh! Use to use one and know it well. Fun little box. Wouldn't mind having one for the SBC collection. Goes well with the IMSAI IMP48. Allison

27 years, 8 months

3
2
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Current Tracers

by jeff.kaneko＠juno.com

Holy smokes! You're right! They're not in the 1998 catalog, but I found them in the 1996 catalog: HP-547A Current Tracer-- $975 ! I first saw these over 15 years ago-- the prices were *much* lower then! Ahhh, it looks like they don't make 'em no more. Bummer. But that was at most, two years ago. Not bad. On 9 Oct 1998 18:48:57 -0000 Eric Smith <eric(a)brouhaha.com> writes: >> Yep, that's the one! Boy, did you ever get lucky! Those current >tracers >> are $300-$400 a shot! And HP *still* makes these. >> Such a deal. > >Are you sure? I can't find them on the HP T&M web site. > >Last time I checked into it, HP wanted about $800 for them. > ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

27 years, 8 months

5
6
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How to identify comm hardware you pass up

by dastar＠ncal.verio.com

Hey, here's a tip. If you're interested in knowing to what use you can put that communications hardware you keep passing up at your preferred source for classic computers, get yourself a Glasgal Communications catalog. The older the better. Glasgal was a company that sold thousands of communications products, from cables & connectors to muxes & switches, and everything in between (and I'm talking everything). The catalog I have from them is 1987, and has some pretty interesting stuff in it, including things I've seen at thrift stores or surplus shops, or things I've worked with. This particular catalog is called "System/Configuration Guide and Product Listing". So not only does it describe their complete product line but it also goes into technical discussions about certain products and their applications, including diagrams. Its basically a tutorial on how to hook up and use the products they are selling. It is very thorough and extraordinarily useful if you'd like to start building your own communcations network between disparate computer storage sites with old comm hardware. I found this particular catalog in a thrift store. Alas (homage to Tony :), Glasgal doesn't seem to be around anymore. I just made a bunch of calls, first to the number in the catalog, then to toll-free directory assistance, then to directory assistance in New Jersey, with no success. I then did a web search on "Glasgal Communications" and found this on a stock market discussion BBS: "WE ARE MANUFACTURERS OF HIGH QUALITY EMPTY GLASS BOTTLES. WE PRODUCE BOTTLES IN TWO COLORS AMBER & WHITE. WE ARE SUPPLYING TO THE LIQUOR, PHARMACEUTICAL, FOOD BEVERAGES AND COSMETICS INDUSTRIES ALL OVER THE WORLD." So either Glasgal Communications has radically altered its business plan or some new company has commandeered their name. If you run across a Glasgal Communications catalog from days gone by, grab it. This also applies to old Black Box catalogs (whom still exist) because if their old catalogs have the same format of their current catalogs, you can expect the same type of helpful information. Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0 See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 09/21/98]

27 years, 8 months

1
0
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Misc.

by ddameron＠earthlink.net

Hi Sam and all, At 09:16 PM 10/9/98 -0700, you wrote: >Speeaking of which, I found an interesting Intersil board at a vermin >market (cheezier than a flea market) the other day. The silk screen mask >on the board says "ICM 7235/36 EV/KIT". It has a 40-pin socket (empty) >and two 14-pin sockets (empty) and a glass-enclosed LCD display that has >the following format: 188:8.8 (so in other words it has one digit with >only two segments, then 4 digits with all 7 segments and a colon and >period). I can't figure out what the display would be used for. It has >an edge connector for whatever purpose. Anyone know what this is? I wish >I had a damn digital camera already so I could get a picture of this to > An Intersil 7235 is a 4 digit vacuum fluorescent driver chip, 40 pins. Input = mux. BCD/hex data. A 7236 is a 4 1/2 digit counter with a vacuum fluorescent driver like the 7235. Interesting that they have a common eval. board, my old Intersil cat. just says an evaluation kit is available for each one (separate numbers). -Dave

27 years, 8 months

1
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Book Review: A Guide To Collecting Computers ...

by fauradon＠pclink.com

>Buy the book! I wish more collectors would start offering services that >target other collectors (like Jim W's IMSAI parts supply). Who will be >first to offer an old computer manual reprint service? (Similar services >seem to be popular in the ham radio community.) >-- Doug I thought WE were already doind that! Aren't WE? Francois ------------------------------------------------------------- Visit the desperately in need of update Sanctuary at: http://www.pclink.com/fauradon

27 years, 8 months

1
0
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Hayes Bankruptcy

by rcini＠email.msn.com

This is the *second* bankruptcy for Hayes in 5 years. The last was in 1994 (emergence in 1996, I think). Maybe it's time to let someone else take a shot at running the company? Rich Cini/WUGNET - ClubWin!/CW7 - MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking - Collector of "classic" computers <========= reply separator ==========>

27 years, 8 months

1
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FS: Hewlett Packard 90 Meter DDS Data Cartridges

by oajones＠bright.net

I have a unopened box of Hewlett Packard 90 meter DDS Data Catridges (5 cartridges, 2 Gbytes before compression). I'm asking $10 plus shipping. Send me email if you are interested. --Alan -- Computing since: 1982, VIC-20, CoCo, PC, CP/M Military Computers: COMTRAN 10, Nida 250 Amateur Radio since: 1971, WN8JEF, KA6EXR, N8BGR, AA4ZI BASIC, dBASE, Assembly, C++ mailto: oajones(a)bright.net

27 years, 8 months

1
0
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Corrections to trivia

by dastar＠ncal.verio.com

On Tue, 6 Oct 1998, Doug Yowza wrote: > Babbage was not the first to come up with the idea of a computer, but you > can trace the development of modern computers back to him. You can't do > anything like that with Holt's chip -- it had no influence. Maybe there > were other Big Bangs before The Big Bang, but if they didn't create a > Universe, nobody cares. I think this attitude in general carelessly disregards an amazing body of work. In fact, I think people do care. I'm not so quick to sweep historical facts underneath the carpet simply as a matter of convenience. I'd rather know the complete and true story, and not just the easiest one to remember. Furthermore, you are are discounting the AMI microprocessors of the early 70s, which Holt went on to design after the F14 CADC, and the influence those chips may have had on later designs. In fact, you are choosing to go along with the popular history written years ago by a biased reporter that is perpetuated by lazy historians who simply regurgitate the information they read in the last book rather than doing real research and finding out there was more to the story, and that there is history before the popular history. The picture is bigger than the canvas it was painted on. I want to know what was beyond the frame. I'm surprised you have this attitude when on the one hand you'd like to see the HP9830 recognized as the first personal computer, rather than the Altair 8800. By your own reasoning, the HP9830 wasn't the big bang, so who cares? Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0 See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 09/21/98]

27 years, 8 months

3
14
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Hayes

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

When was the last time? > >Again? > >George > >========================================================= >George L. Rachor george(a)racsys.rt.rain.com >Beaverton, Oregon http://racsys.rt.rain.com > >On Fri, 9 Oct 1998, Max Eskin wrote: > >> >> Just so everyone knows, Hayes has filed for Bankruptcy.. >> >> ______________________________________________________ >> Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com >> > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

27 years, 8 months

4
3
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Internet Question

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< Does anyone remember the cost of internet access/online time via Compuse < in the 80s ? I need to give a comparison of today's cost of sending a < graphics file. 1984 300 baud was 12.50hr connect time. 1986 1200baud was 12.50hr 1991 1200baud was 9.50hr 1994 2400 6.00hr I may be off some, it's a memory test. Compared to now, very expensive and graphic files were rarely sent before 86ish though there were up/downloads. Oh, internet mail was 1990 and roughly $0.15 a page additional I don't think sending binaries were possible then. Allison

27 years, 8 months

3
2
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TRS-80 Model 100 (was Re: Convergent Technologies workSlate)

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 12:08 AM 10/8/98 -0400, you wrote: >The mention in this thread of a Kyocera-labeled product intrigues me, >as I'd never heard of such at the edge of the Pacific I was on then. The Kyocera KC-85 is well known, although not too common. The case is shaped more like the NEC, but it has the keyboard of the m100. P.S., come to VCF 3.0 and see all the variations (hopefully!) and check out the talk I'm going to do (hopefully!) on the history of all these machines. (If anyone has any info, history, or anecdotes, please get in touch!) --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/

27 years, 8 months

1
0
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Top 10 sins of a computer scrapper

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 04:07 AM 10/7/98 EDT, you wrote: >Chameleon, I may have a manual or two. If you do, would you be interested in getting rid of them? --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/

27 years, 8 months

1
0
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Current Tracers

by jeff.kaneko＠juno.com

Oh yeah, these things are like, mondo-cool. Generally, the logic pulser and current tracer are used together. A common failure mode for TTL and CMOS devices is you'll have a node in a circuit stuck low. Okay, you have a source driving two or more inputs. Who's weighing everything down? With the circuit in some steady state, start the pulser pulsing, and apply it to the pin that's the source. Place the tip of the current tracer on the trace that the source is attached to, and adjust the sensitivity control until the indicator light has some intensity. I think the light will blink at some intensity when it's set right-- Anyway, run the probe tip along the trace. If the light goes out, or goes dim, you passed the branch to where you pulses are going. You follow the pulses until you end up at the bad device and seriously impress the hell out of anybody watching. Why are these things so expensive? The element at the tip is an *EXTREMELY* sensitive hall-effect device, it's polarized (notice the little dot on the tip), and it's a seriously intense analog instrument in a teeny-weenie little package. But probably mostly because some people will pay just about anything for anything that's made by hp (nobody ever got fired for buying an HP product over something else). Anyway, so that's the low-down on current tracing (well, as good as I can remember, anyway). For random-logic, you just cant beat it. I think I still have an old applications bulletin around here someplace. . . . Jeff On Fri, 09 Oct 1998 18:08:32 -0700 Bruce Lane <kyrrin(a)jps.net> writes: >At 14:40 09-10-98 -0500, you wrote: > >>Holy smokes! You're right! They're not in the 1998 catalog, but I >found >>them in the 1996 catalog: HP-547A Current Tracer-- $975 ! > > <eep!> > > My God... I just double-checked the model number on mine. > > Yep... 547A. Geez, and I though the Data I/O UniSite I got a >few years ago >was a coup! > > What makes the darn things so expensive? For that matter, what >are some of >the uses for it? I got it mainly as a curiousity, and as part of the >purchase of my logic pulser, but if the thing is one of those Really >Useful >but Obscure tools, I'd like to know about it. > > >-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- >Bruce Lane, Owner and head honcho, Blue Feather Technologies >(Hamateur: WD6EOS) (E-mail: kyrrin(a)jps.net) (Web: >http://table.jps.net/~kyrrin) >SysOp: The Dragon's Cave (Fido 1:343/272, 253-639-9905) >"Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in >our own >human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..." > ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

27 years, 8 months

2
1
0 0

Internet Question

by roblwill＠usaor.net

El,, I agree about CompuServe, but one of the online services that I know of in the later 80's was Tandy's PC-Link. It came with DeskMate, and was text-only (I think). I'm not sure of the prices, because I never signed up, though. As for graphics, I don't thing there was much graphics. Most of it was text. -- -Jason (roblwill(a)usaor.net) ICQ#-1730318 ---------- > From: Wirehead Prime <wirehead(a)retrocomputing.com> > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> > Subject: Re: Internet Question > Date: Friday, October 09, 1998 10:17 PM > > > > > Does anyone remember the cost of internet access/online time via Compuserve > > in the 80s ? I need to give a comparison of today's cost of sending a > > graphics file. > > Er...CompuServe didn't have Internet access in the 80s. For that matter, > it doesn't really have it in the 90s but that's a matter of opinion. =-D > > Anthony Clifton - Wirehead >

27 years, 8 months

1
0
0 0

Regarding PDP-11/ and rt11 too

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< There's also a version of the UCSD p-System, which runs on a minimal -11 < but that probably has licensing restrictions, too. Runs nice on -11s but the license it far as I know even more tangled. Allison

27 years, 8 months

1
0
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Regarding PDP-11/ and rt11 too

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< Are the CPM68K sources available? Under what sort of license? < Visit the "Unofficial" CP/M Web site. MAIN SITE AT : http://cdl.uta.edu/cpm US MIRROR AT : http://www.mathcs.emory.edu/~cfs/cpm European Mirror at : http://cws86.kyamk.fi/mirrors/cpm/ Allison

27 years, 8 months

1
0
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Regarding PDP-11/ and rt11 too

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< On this it is my understanding that it was a fairly modified version of < RT-11, and it won't run on a "real" PDP-11. Most certainly did. the device drivers supplied are heath specific though for the disks only. Allison

27 years, 8 months

1
0
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Hayes

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

Just so everyone knows, Hayes has filed for Bankruptcy.. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

27 years, 8 months

2
1
0 0

Regarding PDP-11/ and rt11 too

by allisonp＠world.std.com

Earlier I poionted out that RT-11 has a hobby license... after rereading the License it's clear that's not the case it's only available free for the Supnik Emulator. This doesn't help most people. Now, the problem is for those people that have an -11 and want to use it somehow what is there in the way of OSs? RT-11 legal restrictions exist... RSX-11 No idea, but I'd expect licensing again RSTS Licensing again? Unix... AVAILABLE via PUPs support group as free binaries and 100$ license for sources. Initially this seems good but not all PDP-11 configurations can run unix and not all versions of Unix have the drivers to interact with some PDP-11 hardware. So it may take a lot of work with limited tools or none to get it going. Xenix, available free as binaries for the PRO... Canned version OF V6 by appearance and if you have other than an RD51 it doesn't work. So what else is there that is free (or very low cost) and can be run on most of the LSI-11, PDP-11/23 or 11/73 series? IE: can be run on a 11/03 with RX01 floppy or a 11/73 with RQDX3 MSCP disks (hard disks). There is fuzzball but I know far to little about it or it's applicability to various hardware configs. Allison

27 years, 8 months

6
7
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DEC-clones from behind the old Iron Curtain.

by kstumpf＠unusual.on.ca

Some of you might be interested in this great story and remarkable photographs. >Hello! > >I'd be honoured if you include my webpage about the Digital >PDP8, PDP11 and VAX compatible computers manufactured in Hungary >during the existance of the "Iron Curtain": > http://www.internetto.hu/muzeum/e_tpa.html > >I also have a PDP-11 tribute page at: > http://www.telnet.hu/hamster/pdp-11/ > >Thanks for your time! > > / ___ _ _ ___ ____ ___ ___ > /__//__///_///__ / /_ / ) Varga Akos Endre hamster(a)telnet.hu >/ // // /___/ / /__ / ( www.telnet.hu/hamster/english.html >---------------------------------------------------------------------- > My collection http://www.telnet.hu/hamster/decadence/e_index.html >---------------------------------------------------------------------- > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------- Kevin Stumpf * Unusual systems +1.519.744.2900 * EST/EDT GMT - 5 Collector - Commercial Mainframes & Minicomputers from the 50s, 60s, & 70s and control panels and consoles. Author & Publisher - A Guide to Collecting Computers & Computer Collectibles * ISBN 0-9684244-0-6 .

27 years, 8 months

1
0
0 0

Help with AES computer?

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< If a sample of those diskettes is available, I, or Allison, or lots of < others on this list could check it out and find out just what they have If it's softsector I have capability. If hardsector it's within my capability. I lack the financial incentive to persue building one time hardware/software effort being they are an organization. Allison

27 years, 8 months

2
1
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Who wants 3480 1/2" tape carthridges?

by dastar＠ncal.verio.com

Who's the Canadian guy who said he wanted the box of 3480 1/2" tape carthridges and was supposed to send me shipping dough for them? I haven't heard from you since we last spoke. (Sorry, I forgot who you were). But this message is also to solicit anyone else who needs these. I've got a couple hundred. Used once, maybe twice, but otherwise they may as well be new. I think one application for these is an IBM AS/400. Just pay me shipping and they're yours. Otherwise I'll find some creative way to auction them on eBay and make a small fortune. Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0 See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 09/21/98]

27 years, 8 months

1
0
0 0

Apple power supply problems

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< I can't think of a reliable troubleshooting technique that invloves < feeding unlimited current through the device. The next part to smoke may < not be the problem at all... I'd go further to say doing that assures the single point problem is not a multiple point problem assuming the damage is now not beyond repairable. Toasting chokes and transformers generally assures the tech a really nasty task of trying to find one compared to an easy one finding caps, resistors and semiconductors. Allison

27 years, 8 months

2
1
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Misc.

by dcoward＠pressstart.com

Kai said: > 1. The Altair prototype that was to be the cover photo for Popular > Electronics but was lost in shipment > 2. Xerox Alto > 3. Mark 8 > 4. Scelbi 8H > 5. Kenbak-1 > 6. Micral 8008 > 7. Apple I > 8. An unassembled Altair 8800 Kit > 9. Busicom Japan Intel 4004-based Calculator > 10. IBM 5100 You need to add my favorite - Intersil's Intercept Jr. Allison said: >7. Intel prompt-48 I have one of those I could trade. The only docs I have are 5 pages in the back of the MCS-48 manual. Never have tried powering it up. ========================================= Doug Coward Press Start Inc. Sunnyvale,CA =========================================

27 years, 8 months

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Regarding PDP-11/ and rt11 too

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< The binaries are pretty much useless if you want to run on real hardware < In order to reconfigure unix you have to recompile from the sources. The < sources, though are affordable, and certainly some versions include < drivers for a lot of DEC drives, etc. But I think you need an MMU, so no < chance of running on an 11/03 Yep! depending on version you your really need sources. I have an 11/73 with RQDX3 and two RD52s and V7 running on a 10mb RL02 cart. Without sources all of the other disks unless older RK05s are useless. Also it doesn't use all the avalable ram. Fairly useless other than it's real unix. < > The question is however is there something else? I know fuzzball is < > around but I don't know if that is a option for most -11 users. < < IIRC Fuzzball needs an RT11 system to provide a lot of utilities (things < like PIP), the assembler, etc. It's not really stand-alone. Also problematic. Almost begs a new PD OS that is on the simple scale, buildable and patterned after RT or OS/8. Porting CPM68 (c source) to PDP-11 may be doable for a simple 64k memory (16bit). Porting C sources is not my area of expertize. Allison

27 years, 8 months

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Regarding PDP-11/ and rt11 too

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Oct 9, 10:00, David C. Jenner wrote: > This is a critical question. If there were only a small OS that ran > on a minimal -11 with floppies, there could be many more usable systems > out there. > > There are several other possibilities. The last two of these have > fairly liberal licensing restrictions (maybe none): > > - HT-11, the Heathkit version of RT-11 > - Xinu, which runs on an 11/03, but [...] > - FORTH, which is available in several different versions There's also a version of the UCSD p-System, which runs on a minimal -11, but that probably has licensing restrictions, too. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York

27 years, 8 months

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Help with AES computer?

by rax＠warbaby.com

Can anyone help this guy? >Professor Dr Hans Rollmann, who supervises one of the more elegant and >elaborate sites on the WorldWideWeb for the Department of Religious Studies >at Memorial University in Newfoundland, has found some important primary >data that he hopes to mount with other texts on the site. These data are >imprisoned on 8-inch computer disks that were made on an AES computer, >apparently in the 1980s. No printed record of the material survives; only >the 8-inch disks remain. No AES computer or 8-inch drive exists at Memorial >University; the technical services people from the Computing Sciences >Department tried to build an 8-inch drive from spare parts, but came up >short. The intellectual content frozen in this "obsolete" technology >remains unreadable. > >Does anyone know the whereabouts of an intact AES computer? Failing that, >is there any available information about these machines? What did the >acronym AES stand for? Where was it built? Most important, what operating >system did it use? What word processing software might have been loaded? > >Has anyone preserved any computer with an 8-inch disk drive? As I recall, >both Commodore and Atari used 8-inch drives. > >Anyone who has useful information on this problem can communicate with >Professor Rollmann at > > hrollman(a)morgan.ucs.mun.ca > >Those who may be interested in his religious studies web site can begin >sifting through its many layers at > > http://www.ucs.mun.ca/~hrollman > >Professor Rollmann will be grateful for any assistance anyone can offer. >The rest of us need to be sure that any intellectual material we >"catalogue" can also be "read." -- Warbaby The WebSite. The Domain. The Empire. http://www.warbaby.com The MonkeyPool WebSite Content Development http://www.monkeypool.com Once you get the nose on, the rest is just makeup.

27 years, 8 months

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World Power Systems scam

by bobstek＠ix15.ix.netcom.com

Kai - Please don't confuse Morrow (a "good" guy) with the Xitan scammers. TDL made a Z-80 board and then some decent software, and then some Xitan computer systems. TDL got into trouble using some bad memory chips and had cash flow problems. Some "business consultants" were brought in who dissolved TDL and started Xitan and heavily promoted an advanced Z80 system, the General. They took orders and disappeared in '78. But George Morrow wasn't involved - he was in California, and TDL / Xitan was in New Jersey. Bob Stek bobstek(a)ix.netcom.com Saver of Lost SOLs

27 years, 8 months

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"David Williams" North Star Horizon Help

by dcoward＠pressstart.com

RE: "David Williams" North Star Horizon Help I keep meaning to write up a Horizon troubleshooting guide because it seem that someone has these same problems about every 6 months. But I can't even seem to find the time to sit down and just design a logo graphic for my museum. OK here is a quick shoot at it. >Ok, I have a few minutes now to play around with the N* Horizon >I've been fixing up. I've tried to power it up and it seems to hit the >disk drive and then nothing. Good, if the drive light is coming on that saves some steps. On a normal load the drive light should be on for about 12 seconds. The first step would be to see if you are getting a READ error on the drive. 1. According to the MDS-A-D controller manual you can test for a read error at location 7C pin 6. This is the DI-GATE line and on a read error there will be a continuous stream of pulses on this line. This chip is 7 columns from the left side and 3 rows >from the top and should be a 74LS00. I tried this out this morning. I could'nt find my logic probe so I used a voltmeter. With NO disk error 7C pin 6 stayed at 4.55 VDC. With a disk error this pin dropped to 1.91 VDC indicating pulses. If you are getting disk errors, it could be: * a blank or bad disk * a single density disk * a faulty disk drive * or a fault in the read circuit of the controller. Also check that the head carriage guide is in the spiral groove on the stepper motor cam of the disk drive. If you are not getting a disk error then it's narrowed down to a unpersonalized disk or serial communcations problems. 2. It would help for the next step to have a bus monitor card. These are like gold if you are dealing with S-100 bus systems on a regular basis. But you can also just use a bus extender card to allow you to get to the bus signals with your voltmeter. This morning I looked at the address bus after booting with a working DOS disk and with a unpersonalized DOS disk. With the standard version that loads at $2000, the I/O routines are normally placed at $2900-$2A00. The unpersonalized DOS has it I/O vectors pointing to themself like this: $200D C30D20 COUT JMP COUT THIS IS THE CHARACTER OUTPUT ROUTINE * Character must be in the B register. Device # may be in the ACC, if * desired. On return the character must also be in the ACC. No other * registers can be modified. Your routine must do a RET. * $2010 C31020 CIN JMP CIN THIS IS THE CHARACTER INPUT ROUTINE * Device # may be in the ACC, if desired. The 7 bit ascii code must be * returned in the ACC. No other registers can be modified. Your routine * must do a RET. * $2013 C31320 TINIT JMP TINIT THIS IS THE TERMINAL INIT ROUTINE * All registers can be used. If not needed, point to a RET. * $2016 C31620 CONC JMP CONC THIS IS THE CONTROL C DETECTION ROUTINE * Returns Z set if control C is typed, else returns Z cleared if other * character or no character is typed. All registers can be used. In both cases bit 13 of the address bus is alway active ($2000). With the unpersonalized disk the 8 lower bits were the ONLY other active lines. But with the working disk, bits 8-11 were also active. So, checking address bits 8-11 for activity should show you if DOS is really trying to communicate with your terminal. 3. I still can't find my manual for the Horizon that shows how to set the DIP headers (the "plugs" are called DIP headers). Here a RS-232 break-out box would be handy. If you don't have one, I would try setting the Horizon to 300 baud (with that switch in the back) and your terminal to 9600 baud. That should give you a couple of lines of garbage if any thing comes across the line. Remember to set your terminal to 8 bits, no parity, 1 stop bit, no flow control, and if you are using your PC as a terminal which would be best, emulate just a standard ANSI-BBS terminal. When I use my PC as a terminal, I use a straight through 25 wire ribbon cable, but try your Null Modem cable too. If you get the garbage then set your terminal to the same speed as the Horizon. And remember that the Horizon may not boot when powered on, you may have to hit the reset switch in the back. Let me know what you find. And I'll send the games to you next week (have to work this weekend). ========================================= Doug Coward Press Start Inc. Sunnyvale,CA =========================================

27 years, 8 months

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6502 vs. 6800 (was Re: kits, definitions, prices...)

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< When IBM was developing the 1401 emulation for the 360/30, they discover < that many customers were in fact using and dependent on undefined behavi < of the 1401. They had to emulate a lot of things that were never docume This was also true for undocumented PDP-8 series microcoded OPR instructions. In the later 8E and 8A and cmons parts there would be support for some of them. Other cpus with undocumented instruction are 8085, z80 and I'll bet a slew more. Those however the undocumented instructions were also copied and assured to work by licensed and non-licensed copies of the parts. Allison

27 years, 8 months

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Old HP disk drives (HP 7925) available

by sieler2＠allegro.com

Hi, David Largent, at Largent(a)MBRNET.INTEREX.ORG, has some old HP disk drives available (in Muncie, Indiana). The HP 7925 is a 120 MB disk with an HP-IB interface (removable disk pack). The HP 7933 is a 400 MB disk with an HP-IB interface (non-removable, although extremely closely related to the HP 7935, which is removable). The drives are about the size of a 2-drawer filing cabinet ... and heavier. If you're interested in them, contact him ... not me! His posting: > OK. With all this talk about the old venerable 7925 and 7933 disc > drives, it makes me realize that I still have a pair (a master and a > slave) of 7925s sitting here in a corner with boxes stacked on top of > them. They're left over from a 3000/42 that we sold years ago, and > were fully operational when they were disconneted. I think I even > have the manuals for them! > > We're going to be relocating our offices in a few weeks, and it makes > no sense to move them. Thus a few questions... > > - Does anybody want them? They're your's if you pay to get them > delivered to you. (We _might_ [read: probably not] even be willing > to share in the cost if you can offer a good home and there's not too > much cost involved.) > > - Assuming nobody wants them (or parts of them), what should I do w/ > them? A few ideas come to mind... > > - Haul them to the junk yard for scrap metal. > - Sell them for "precious metal". (Is there any in it???!) > - Leave them in the old building and let the new occupents > figure out what to do w/ them. (hehehe) > > Being the pack rat that I am, and a long-time, loyal HP customer, > it's difficult to think about simply hauling them off to the junk > yard. Seems like they at least deserve a burial or something! > > Now I'll sit back and wait for those "creative" (or real) suggestions > to start coming my way from the list. :-) > > -dll > > David L. Largent "My thoughts are my own, > Information Services Manager unless I choose to share them!" > The Gilbert Companies, Inc. Telephone: 765/284-4461 > P.O. Box 1032 Facsimile: 765/288-2079 > Muncie, Indiana 47308-1032 Email: Largent(a)MbrNet.Interex.Org > -- Stan Sieler sieler(a)allegro.com http://www.allegro.com/sieler.html

27 years, 8 months

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Canon Cat

by jeff.kaneko＠juno.com

On Fri, 9 Oct 1998 14:12:07 -0500 (CDT) Doug Yowza <yowza(a)yowza.com> writes: >On Fri, 9 Oct 1998, Sherry Bumgarner wrote: > >> I have a lot of information on the Canon Cat and related computers. >I >> worked on them and was a company (Information Appliance) founder. >> Interested? > >Yes, very! We all want to know the real story of who killed the Cat! Maybe nobody-- maybe because it was just too 'curious'. (sorry, couldn't resist). >(And I want one or two of your Cats, as well). > >-- Doug > > ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

27 years, 8 months

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Canon Cat

by sherry＠neteze.com

I have a lot of information on the Canon Cat and related computers. I worked on them and was a company (Information Appliance) founder. Interested? John 'Sandy' Bumgarner job(a)garlic.com

27 years, 8 months

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6502 vs. 6800 (was Re: kits, definitions, prices...)

by franke＠sbs.de

Eric Smith <eric(a)brouhaha.com> > Cameron Kaiser <ckaiser(a)oa.ptloma.edu> wrote about undefined 6502 opcodes: >> [lot deleted] Exact hit Eric. > This is nothing new to microprocessors; many mainframes and minicomputers > had undefined opcodes which customers experimented with. Yes, but as a rule, mainframes and most minis catch undefined opcodes in a special exeption. Even the Intel x86 (starting >from with the 80186) throw an Int 06 on invalid opcodes. > As with the > microprocessors, there was never any guarantee that the undefined opcodes > on any two otherwise equivalent machines would peform identically. With > microprocessors, though, there tend to be fewer design changes made after > introduction than there were for mainframes. AFAIK, all NMOS 6502 CPUs > have the same behavior for all undocumented instructions. Some of the > NMOS deriviatives have different behavior though. Jep, the web article used by Cameron as reference is based on the Commodore 8502 used in the C64. Just lucky that Commo used the original MOS design for the 8502 :). Other 6502 compatible Processors, that didn't use the original design have different operations at the undefind opcodes. Eventualy this led to some problems Apple II programms encountered on individual clones or Apples with upgraded CPUs. Especialy when one switched for any of the CMOS types (65C02, 65SC02, 65G02, 65S02), becuse they used some of the free Opcodes for new/enhanced operations (like bitmaipulation etc.). Undefined opcodes ar implementation dependend like internal function of an operating system are version dependand. Just remember how ridicoulus the CPU detection algorythms on the x86 are since there was no standard cpu type command. Some of the enhanced chips can only be detected usind complex tryal and error strategies. I remember that a general purpose detector could take some seconds to determinate the CPU thru exeptions, timeouts, busfaults and arithmetic checking. And now try to distinguish the different 6502s. I have never seen any programm to perform this. Funy thing: History repeats with DirectX - Microsoft didn't include any version checking in DirectX 3.0 so, for example, if you want to use the enhanced sound functions later on, you have to perform time consuming operations to finaly find the needed function resulting in an error (or worse, depending on the function just performing diferent). Gruss H. -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK

27 years, 8 months

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Current Tracers

by jeff.kaneko＠juno.com

Whoa! Yep, that's the one! Boy, did you ever get lucky! Those current tracers are $300-$400 a shot! And HP *still* makes these. Such a deal. On Thu, 08 Oct 1998 18:40:44 -0700 Bruce Lane <kyrrin(a)jps.net> writes: >At 00:44 09-10-98 -0000, you wrote: > >>I've lusted after the HP Current Tracer for years, but they are very >>expensive and the price keeps going up! > > Is this the probe that looks a lot like the later models of HP >Logic >Probe, except with an insulated tip and a little pot that's used to >set the >sensitivity? > > If so, I got lucky and found one at a local swap meet. I think >the guy >wanted all of $25 for it and the HP Logic Pulser. I got both, >naturally. > > I would conclude that they do show up at techie swaps, but not >that often. > > >-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- >Bruce Lane, Owner and head honcho, Blue Feather Technologies >(Hamateur: WD6EOS) (E-mail: kyrrin(a)jps.net) (Web: >http://table.jps.net/~kyrrin) >SysOp: The Dragon's Cave (Fido 1:343/272, 253-639-9905) >"Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in >our own >human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..." > ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

27 years, 8 months

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Regarding PDP-11/ and rt11 too

by allisonp＠world.std.com

Someone suggested H11 and I'd bet that one is more encumbered as it was a version of RT and I think Heath was licensed from DEC. < Obviously, I don't own a license for RT-11. And assume that the commerci < license from Mentec is probably much more than a hobbyist would pay to < tinker with old machines. Has anyone approached Mentec about the Unknown, Megan any idea of cost? < they would be more apt to create one. From what I can tell, an old PDP < with no software license is virtually useless, except for < hacking/curiosity value. After a half hour of playing around with the Maybe someone could create an OS for the PD, patterned after CPM or ???. < would be without the VMS-hobbyist license. I mean, who _really_ wants t < run BSD on all of your old hardware? It kind of defeats the whole < purpose of collecting the old machines if you have the same stupid Unix < prompt on your VAX, Sparc 1, Mac IIfx, 486PC, etc... That is especially true if your not into unix though, that is an option for those that are. Allison

27 years, 8 months

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Regarding PDP-11/ and rt11 too

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< V5, V6 and V6 are available from the same site as the Supnik < emulators, and I don't believe the licenses accompanying them < are as strict... and yes, the license for them is only $100. The 100$ license is for the sources. Binaries are pretty much free if it runs on what you have. It turns out that can be more of a restriction than any license. The question is however is there something else? I know fuzzball is around but I don't know if that is a option for most -11 users. For me it's no fun running an emulator when real iron is at hand. Though I'm able to run most OSs I'm always looking at "Yet other choices". Allison

27 years, 8 months

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Heathkit H8 vs. H-89

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< address of 4200H or something for TRS-80 Model 1's without a memory < mapping mod, and also for some Heathkit machine. I always assumed the < latter was the H8. All of the H8 and H89 systems were rom at 0000, mods were available for both. Allison

27 years, 8 months

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Apple power supply problems

by SUPRDAVE＠aol.com

one of my 3 apple //GS wouldnt power up which after subbing parts out, turned out to be a power supply issue. i took the cover off the ps to look around finding nothing obviously wrong. i looked at the fuse and wasnt sure if it had burned out or not. call me crazy or whatever, but i used a paper clip to bypass the fuse and plugged the ac in and powered on for just a sec. i got a bit of smoke so i powered off and checkes. not finding the source, i did it again while watching. this time, something really smoked! it seems to be a small transformer of some sort, about 3/4 in square and 1 inch high and it's right near where the a/c comes into the power supply. there's a larger one right int he middle of the circuit board. it's still hot several minutes later! thankfully the computer itself is ok although it did reset my main computer on the same electrical outlet. provided i didnt destroy the whole bloody thing, what could be causing the problem? david

27 years, 8 months

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World Power Systems scam

by bill_r＠inetnebr.com

I was thinking I had seen it in 80 Microcomputing. If I get time this weekend, I'll see if I can find it. My memory is hazy on the issue, but I believe I either sent them money for a product, or was _about_ to send them money when it turned out to be a scam. I remember things like mock-ups of products that they used in their ads; they'd taken some standard project boxes and literally just sat parts of switches, LED lenses, etc, on top of them for the photographs. I think I may have talked to someone at the "company" about their products. If I can ask, what prompted this after so long? > >But can anyone point me to a particular issue of Byte or other >magazine that has a World Power Systems ad? > >- John > > Bill Richman incolor.inetnebr.com/bill_r (Home of the COSMAC Elf microcomputer simulator!)

27 years, 8 months

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Canon Cat

by sherry＠neteze.com

If anyone wants to know about the Cat, I have a large collection of info and Cats (and a Swyft or two) and a lot of memories. John 'Sandy' Bumgarner job(a)garlic.com (sherry(a)neteze.com is my wife's email address)

27 years, 8 months

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6502 vs. 6800 (was Re: kits, definitions, prices...)

by franke＠sbs.de

>::Jep, the web article used by Cameron as reference is >::based on the Commodore 8502 used in the C64. Just >::lucky that Commo used the original MOS design for >::the 8502 :). Other 6502 compatible Processors, that > Luck had nothing to do with it -- Commodore owned MOS. MOS was turned into > Commodore Semiconductor Group after Jack Tramiel bought them out. Stupid meone, no idea of history. Gruss H. -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK

27 years, 8 months

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Hard drive recovery questions

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

This particular manifestation of a hard drive problem is not classic, but since it could just as easily happen on a classic computer, might as well ask it here. If you think it's inappropriate, please say so. The machine in question is a Mac Quadra 610, which has been running as a fileserver for a 15-machine network for many years. It has an 8GB hard drive, probably one of the first to get into catalogs. It was working OK, but tended to freeze when four people started to transfer 10MB files. So, we replaced it. And now, the hard drive stopped working and we can't get the documents stored on it back. Here is the hard drive problem: it spins up ok (takes about 15sec. and sounds like a hair dryer when it does), and then tries to seek. The heads sound OK for about 1 sec. and then make a clicking noise and stop. It then tries again. Does this mean some servo data has been overwritten or something? We don't want to spend $1000 on recovery, and I thought this might be a good time to try some alternative methods. Would it help if I opened the drive and manually moved the heads? ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

27 years, 8 months

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Apple //c power supply

by roblwill＠usaor.net

Probably all that's wrong with it is a blown fuse. (that happened to a TRS-80 Model I P/S that I had). To get it open, take a utility knife (the kind with snap-off blades) with a new blade, and a blow torch. Use the blow torch to heat the knife, then "cut" around the P/S until the top half pops off the bottom half. I use this method to open old laptop batteries to replace the cells. When you get the P/S fixed, just put the two halves back together, (sand [or cut] the ridges off made by the hot knife, first) and put a bead of hot glue in the seam to hold it together. It doesn't look that bad, and It can always be popped apart with a screwdriver if you need to fix it again. GooD LucK, ---------- > From: Sam Ismail <dastar(a)ncal.verio.com> > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> > Subject: Re: Apple //c power supply > Date: Friday, October 09, 1998 4:10 AM > > On Thu, 8 Oct 1998, Paul Kearns wrote: > > I'd like to get in there and see if I can fix it, or just rebuild it (but > I'd still like to at least rebuild it inside the brick case). Does anyone > know if there is a way to get these things open without ruining them? I've > pushed and poked and prodded with no luck.

27 years, 8 months

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Regarding PDP-11/ and rt11 too

by CLASSICCMP＠trailing-edge.com

>>The question is however is there something else? I know fuzzball is >>around but I don't know if that is a option for most -11 users. >I don't think so, since some of Fuzzball, if I remember correctly, >is built under RT-11 and runs under RT-11. I don't think I've seen >a Fuzzball system which was entirely self-bootable. (Maybe John >Wilson can answer, since he's done some stuff with it). John Wilson does have self-bootable Fuzzball images on ftp.dbit.com, in /pub/pdp11/fuzzball. Fuzzball is an "operating system" of sorts, but you can't do development with it unless you have the RT-11 macro assembler, linker, and other program development tools, so there isn't a lot of interesting stuff you can do with it unless you've also got a RT-11 license. TSX+ is pretty much the same way - without the RT-11 utilities you're dead in the water. -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology Voice: 301-767-5917 7328 Bradley Blvd Fax: 301-767-5927 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817

27 years, 8 months

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IBM 5363 II

by rigdonj＠intellistar.net

OK what is an IBM 5363 II? I found one in a trift store. I've been told that the 5363 was a S/36 that designed to be a very low cost entry into the 3X architecture and that it runs an operating systems called SSP. So what is a 5363 II and what OS does it use? Is it worth picking up and saving? Also does anyone know how to get around the password protection? Joe

27 years, 8 months

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Regarding PDP-11/ and rt11 too

by mbg＠world.std.com

>The question is however is there something else? I know fuzzball is >around but I don't know if that is a option for most -11 users. I don't think so, since some of Fuzzball, if I remember correctly, is built under RT-11 and runs under RT-11. I don't think I've seen a Fuzzball system which was entirely self-bootable. (Maybe John Wilson can answer, since he's done some stuff with it). Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+

27 years, 8 months

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Apple //c power supply

by paulk＠microsoft.com

Arrrggghhh... Okay, so, for some time my Apple ][ collection has included a //c which I've never booted because I didn't have the brick for it. I've seen them for sale all over, but always for $25 to $40 (plus shipping). Since that's like five times what I paid for the CPU, I've been pretty reluctant to go for it. At the VCF swap meet, I picked up a //c with brick for $15, and the vendor even threw in a non-working //c for parts (cool). I brought it all home, fired up the two good //c's, and then turned to the non working one, which promptly (auugh!) ate the brick. I'd like to get in there and see if I can fix it, or just rebuild it (but I'd still like to at least rebuild it inside the brick case). Does anyone know if there is a way to get these things open without ruining them? I've pushed and poked and prodded with no luck. Thanks a lot! Paul Kearns paulk(a)microsoft.com

27 years, 8 months

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World Power Systems scam

by kaikal＠MICROSOFT.com

World Power Systems: Memory boards, big ads, great prices, non-existent company. Some guy named "The Colonel" who of course wasn't. Magazine ads on credit, graphic design for said ads on credit, prepayment from customers never returned. Not just in Byte magazine, also (at least) kilobaud and Interface Age, year was 1978? Whole thing was blown by the editor of Interface Age, who was suspicious and called to "do a story" on the company. When he showed up, "The Colonel" was on the lam, and there was nothing but an empty office and a phone. An almost identical scam happened in, as I recall, 1979, when a company placed multipage color ads for a bunch of really cool, inexpensive TRS-80 Model 1 peripherals in 80 Microcomputing Magazine, then disappeared. And let's not forget Morrow, which, after changing names to Xibec (Xidec?) and announcing & taking orders for some super doozy computer called The General, also vanished overnight. Kai -----Original Message----- From: Sam Ismail [mailto:dastar@ncal.verio.com] Sent: Thursday, October 08, 1998 3:26 PM To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Subject: Re: World Power Systems scam On Thu, 8 Oct 1998, John Foust wrote: > Does anyone recall the month and year the "World Power Systems" > scam advertisement appeared in (was it?) Byte? What was the nature of this scam? Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- Ever onward. Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0 See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 09/21/98]

27 years, 8 months

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What computers used the AMI7200 & 7300?

by dastar＠ncal.verio.com

Here's the information about pricing on the F14 CADC directly from Ray Holt. > To my knowledge the first set of chips were included into the > development price, however, as I remember the remainder of the initial > contract had a price tag of $250-$350 per chip. The ROM's were > probably a little less that that. In follow-on production (qty's of > 1000+) AMI had estimated chip prices to be under $100. I noticed I had > put $65 in my paper. And on some of the applications the AMI 7200 & 7300 microprocessors made their way into: > The 7200 and 7300 were used, for sure, in very high scientific > calculators and as i/o controllers for some mini's, however, I left AMI > right after the development so I did not get into who any follow-on > customers were. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0 See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 09/21/98]

27 years, 8 months

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DEC RQDX3 Controller

by healyzh＠ix.netcom.com

Could someone post the jumper settings for a RQDX3 controller? I've been trying to use my RQDX2 docs, but that won't cut it, and I can't find anything on the net. Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh(a)ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh(a)holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ |

27 years, 8 months

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6502 vs. 6800 (was Re: kits, definitions, prices...)

by mbg＠world.std.com

aha... sorry about that... shows how much I've used it recently. You're right. it is a 6800... (damn) Megan

27 years, 8 months

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6502 vs. 6800 (was Re: kits, definitions, prices...)

by mbg＠world.std.com

>> alt.folklore.computers where moron was trying to convince everyone that >>if you left the 6502 running this instruction, your CPU would literally heat >Does anybody know what system is referenced in the Jargon File under HCF >as the one that could burn up its bus lines if the processor were given >the HCF instruction? I've tried the HCF instruction on my 6502-based heathkit electronics trainer (ET-????) It was neat to watch the address lines increment and wrap... But although I ran it for a long time, it didn't catch fire... Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+

27 years, 8 months

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Regarding PDP-11/ and rt11 too

by mbg＠world.std.com

> RT-11 legal restrictions exist... > RSX-11 No idea, but I'd expect licensing again > RSTS Licensing again? They're all covered by licenses. And are available for hobbyists, but again, only for use with the Supnik emulator. So, as you said, that doesn't help people with real iron. > Unix... AVAILABLE via PUPs support group as free binaries and 100$ > license for sources. Initially this seems good but not all PDP-11 > configurations can run unix and not all versions of Unix have the > drivers to interact with some PDP-11 hardware. So it may take a lot > of work with limited tools or none to get it going. V5, V6 and V6 are available from the same site as the Supnik emulators, and I don't believe the licenses accompanying them are as strict... and yes, the license for them is only $100. Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+

27 years, 8 months

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Help: Identify my board

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< Ah HA! I see it now George! The two edge connectors at the left & righ < edge of the board (as it faces us) are indeed the power and gnd connecti < for the Multibus. The board plugs into the P1 slot with those two 6-fing < edge conns. How dumb of me not to realize this. I haven't looked at the web page but it sounds like the board for a ICE85 used in a Intel 230 development system. Allison

27 years, 8 months

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World Power Systems scam

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< > > Does anyone recall the month and year the "World Power Systems" < > > scam advertisement appeared in (was it?) Byte? < > < > What was the nature of this scam? Byte, Kilobaud and interface age were all DNP for full page ads and any customer that purchased was also part of the gig. There was nothing real about them or the product. Sphere was also considered a scam though they were real and did ship some product. They failed and took a few people. This was common back then as the industry was moving very fast. Everyone thought they could do the MITS or SWTP thing but didn't have the business skills or sometimes the design skills. I also have a copy of Microtrek that only printed one issue of the mag! Allison

27 years, 8 months

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Help: Identify my board

by cfandt＠netsync.net

Ah HA! I see it now George! The two edge connectors at the left & right edge of the board (as it faces us) are indeed the power and gnd connections for the Multibus. The board plugs into the P1 slot with those two 6-finger edge conns. How dumb of me not to realize this. Man, I was looking at it from the upper edge conn. being the part to plug into the Multibus P2 connector but I was wondering how in the heck the sides of that upper edge would clear the card rack and backplane! I was thinking those 6-finger connectors were just used for I/O or something. The shape of the board is not what I'm used to seeing for Multibus boards (I've got a dozen or so of the 'traditional' style around here of various types.) Apparently I/O was handled through that edge conn. at the top of the picture, true? Thanks for this bit of info that might help me when hunting through a pile of boards at a hamfest, etc. Regards, Chris At 10:18 10/08/98 -0700, you wrote: >Your looking at an SBC 80/04 board manufactured by Intel through about >1985. Power could be obtained by plugging the board's two connectors into >the P1 slot. Again this was not a multibus board but could be plugged >into a Multibus P1 connector. > >George Rachor > >========================================================= >George L. Rachor george(a)racsys.rt.rain.com >Beaverton, Oregon http://racsys.rt.rain.com > >On Thu, 8 Oct 1998, Allison J Parent wrote: > >> < > Can someone help identify this board? It has a 8085AH CPU in the A9 >> < > socket. On the right the board says "Intel (C) 1977 MADE IN USA." On t >> < > back of the circuit board is etched "PWB1001480-03 REV H." If you wan >> < > to see what the board looks like click on my link below. >> >> Processor for a Intel model 220 development system is a good possibility. >> >> Unfortunately the copyright date on intel board has little to do with >> design and manufacture date. >> >> Allison >> >> > -- -- Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian Jamestown, NY USA cfandt(a)netsync.net Member of Antique Wireless Association URL: http://www.ggw.org/freenet/a/awa/

27 years, 8 months

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IBM RT machine - info pls...

by SUPRDAVE＠aol.com

i have one as well, but no keyboard so i can't test mine. i dont think you'll find anything to run on that beast these days. best to check comp.sys.ibm.pc.rt very little traffic, but there are some ontopic posts there. In a message dated 10/8/98 5:47:12 PM US Eastern Standard Time, jpero(a)pop.cgocable.net writes: > I have offered to take fairly complete RT for nothing, what it needs > is hard drive and floppy drive (I happen to have standard 1.22MB > drive and 40MB esdi to put in it). It have most of everything, 4mb > ram and serial etc I think not enough info but it did have aix > software to put on and 1 and 1.1 I think. Yes, it has monitor and > keyboard. > > Now, what exactly how useful are these RT are and alterative OSes and > software available for RT?

27 years, 8 months

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TRS-80 Model 100 (was Re: Convergent Technologies workSlate)

by scott＠isd.canberra.edu.au

At 00:08 8/10/98 -0400, Ward Donald Griffiths III <gram(a)cnct.com> wrote: >Tony Duell wrote: >> >> > thrown in. The NEC and Olivetti versions depended on external modems >> >> I have the Olivetti version - an M10, and the PCB certainly has positions >> for the internal modem components. Now, it would be quite normal for a UK >> machine not to have the modem (our CCITT tones are different from Bell >> tones at 300 baud, and there are different approval requirements), so I >> assumed that the US model had the modem fitted. > >I have never read a report or review of an M-10 with an internal modem. >And the magazines that covered the Model 100 _did_ review the Olivetti >and NEC products, but of course those magazines were rather more than >three moves ago (per Poor Richard, three removes equals one fire), but >I do recall that they all had the same Kyocera main board with minor >changes per customer. The NEC PC-8300 (updated version of the PC-8201A, with more RAM and a few improvements in ROM, such as support for XMODEM in TELCOM) had an 300 baud internal modem as an option (only available in the US). Although my PC-8300 doesn't have a modem, it does have a single loose A4 page in the manual describing how to get Wall Street stock prices on-line. Regards, | Scott McLauchlan |E-Mail: scott(a)cts.canberra.edu.au | | Network Services Team |Phone : +61 2 6201 5544 (Ext.5544)| | Client Services Division |Post : University of Canberra, | | University of Canberra, AUSTRALIA | ACT, 2601, AUSTRALIA. |

27 years, 8 months

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eBay strangeness

by altair8800＠hotmail.com

Am wondering if it is me or if everyone is experiencing this? Someone has listed an Altair 4k memory board. The eBay item number is 34468468. Whenever I go to this listing, my computer locks up. It has happened every time I have tried since earlier in the day. Only happens with this listing and no others. It seems to happen as soon as eBay starts to download the photo from the seller's web site. I have never experienced this with any other eBay auction. Bob Wood ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

27 years, 8 months

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Apple power supply problems

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< One method that I have used for years with equipment that blows fuses is < put a light bulb in line with the incoming power. Depending on the actu < correct load of the equipment determines the wattage of the bulb needed. < normal operation the bulb will light to about 1/4 to 1/2 of normal then < (typical inrush - charging caps.) If the bulb lights near fully it is This is a safe and sane method that generally results in less likelyhood of damage or injury. Some parts if "forced" may explode violently with the risk of injury or colateral damage like burnt boards. I sometime used a 110v lamp in socket with clipleads to bridge the fuse. Allison

27 years, 8 months

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VCF 2.0 t-shirts on sale [ClassicCmp discount!]

by dastar＠ncal.verio.com

I have a pile of VCF 2.0 t-shirts that I need to sell. Order now and get a $2 ClassicCmper discount on any shirt. If you order, make sure you tell me you're a ClassicCmper. See www.vintage.org/vcf for graphical depictions. There are still a few VCF 1.0 shirts left over. These are not listed on the page but they're going for $10 each. Buy one so you can say you were there, even if you weren't! (I'll even vouch for you if anyone questions your autheticity :) Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0 See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 09/21/98]

27 years, 8 months

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kits, definitions, prices...

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< > Little-known fact: The Apple 1 wasn't a 6502 machine... it was a 6502 < > 6800 machine. < < That is *very* little-known! Either somebody got sold a 6800 machine wi < an Apple 1 label on it or there needs to be some documentation for this < claim! References? Not a big secret. It's a fact and there is a jumper on the board for it. REASON: At one point MOS Tech was going to make a 6500 that was pin interchangable with the 6800 but moto took them to court. the expectation was they would make one board that could be either 6800 or 6500. Allison

27 years, 8 months

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Help: Identify my board

by cfandt＠netsync.net

At 21:35 10/07/98 -0700, George L. Rachor wrote: >Although not a classic Multibus board this board manufactured by Intel and >would fit in a Multibus slot. It does use the power pins from a >Multibus card slot. Beg to differ, George, but the board pictured in the URL given by Alan definitely is not Multibus! Others will also agree here who either used or have Multibus hardware in their collections like myself. I don't even recognize what the thing could possibly be. An Intel OEM controller of some sort? Relatively small quantity of chips so Alan could do like Tony D. or myself would do and trace the circuits and draw a schematic to get a better idea of function. Regards, Chris > >The model number escapes me for a moment but was still being manufactured >in 1994. Could you give us a bit more info from what you recall on this board George? > >========================================================= >George L. Rachor george(a)racsys.rt.rain.com >Beaverton, Oregon http://racsys.rt.rain.com > >On Wed, 7 Oct 1998, oajones wrote: > >> Can someone help identify this board? It has a 8085AH CPU in the A9 >> socket. On the right the board says "Intel (C) 1977 MADE IN USA." On the >> back of the circuit board is etched "PWB1001480-03 REV H." If you want >> to see what the board looks like click on my link below. >> >> http://www.bright.net/~oajones/myboard.jpg >> >> --Alan >> -- Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian Jamestown, NY USA Member of Antique Wireless Association URL: http://www.ggw.org/freenet/a/awa/

27 years, 8 months

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kits, definitions, prices...

by franke＠sbs.de

> There are a handful of questions that keep getting re-hashed. > Build my SwTPC kit and play with it, or treasure it in pristine form? Ill take the burden. > Is my LSI-11 a micro, or not? Who cares > Are my XT's really classic? Of corse - I could also sell you a secon one - just $$$,$$$.$$ > Should I hack my Apple-1 to sub in a 99 GHz Pentium for the 6502? Geee what a great Idea - just go ahead. > Wanna buy a 1200 baud modem? No, I'm still fine with my 300 coupler SCNR H. (But I get your Idea) -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK

27 years, 8 months

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Update 2 - Aquarius Data Recorders

by wanderer＠bos.nl

What kind of recorder is this? I have never seen one. Can someone tell me more about it? Thanks, Ed -- The Wanderer | Geloof nooit een politicus! wanderer(a)bos.nl | Europarlementariers: http://www.bos.nl/homes/wanderer | zakkenvullers en dumpplaats voor Unix Lives! windows95 is rommel! | mislukte politici. '96 GSXR 1100R | See http://www.bos.nl/homes/wanderer/gates.html for a funny pic. of Gates!

27 years, 8 months

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Amusing: January 1993 Sun Remarketing Catalog

by kaikal＠MICROSOFT.com

The other day I was disassembling a Lisa, and inside between the RAM boards there was a copy of the January 1993 Sun Remarketing Catalog. Here are some fun tidbits from the catalog. Anyone care to call Sun and try to order one of these part numbers? Rumor has it that Sun has a whole warehouse full of Lisa stuff that they just aren't motivated to sell. APPLE LISA Originally designed as a versatile business computer, the Lisa is more powerful than ever before. We've added new features that make it better than a Mac Plus... 800K floppy drive, 20 Mb or 40 Mb SCSI hard drive, and MacWorks Plus. LISA CPU OPTIONS - 20Mb SCSI System, $495 100-283 - 40Mb SCSI System, $545 100-481 - Macintosh XL 400K/10Mb, $395 101-140 - Macintosh XL/400K No HD, $295 101-142 - Macintosh XL/800K System, $595 101-181 - Lisa/400K Floppy System, $295 100-141 LISA ACCESSORIES - 800K internal disk drive, $159 500-800 - 2Mb RAM Upgrade, $195 200-120 - Lisa SCSI Card, $79 200-300 - Lisa SCSI Drive 20Mb, $195 501-201 - Lisa SCSI Drive 40Mb, $295 501-401 - MacWorks Plus SC, $99 402-107 - MacWorks Plus 400K, $99 402-200 - MacWorks Plus 800K, $99 402-108 LISA/MACINTOSH XL DO-IT-YOURSELF GUIDE Complete with Test Diskette The Lisa/Macintosh XL Do-It-Yourself Guide is a must for any Lisa/XL owner. The included diagnostic diskette will determine any problems that might arise be it hardware or software. If a hardware problem occurs, simply order a replacement module for the defective part and avoid costly repair bills. This manual also covers any adjustments or repairs you can make yourself. Regular Version $19 402-232 Screen Mod Version $19 402-231 Some other Sun tidbits from the catalog: MACINTOSH 128K, $195 MACINTOSH 512K, $249 MAC PORTABLE 2/40, $895 APPLE ///, $345

27 years, 8 months

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Just when you thought eBay couldn't get more ridiculous

by kaikal＠MICROSOFT.com

Just when you thought eBay couldn't get more ridiculous... Two Rockwell AIM-65's (auctioned simultaneously, ending within minutes of each other, by different sellers, weird) just sold for $406 and $472 respectively (I'll give you 3 guesses to name one of the bidders...) Kai

27 years, 8 months

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Aquarius Data Recorders

by thedm＠sunflower.com

Id pay 10 for one also, and put me down for TWO. -----Original Message----- From: Kai Kaltenbach <kaikal(a)microsoft.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Tuesday, October 06, 1998 4:19 PM Subject: RE: Aquarius Data Recorders >Well, my whole Aquarius only cost $35 with mini-expander and 3 carts, so I >guess I'd go maybe $10 on a tape drive. > >Kai > >-----Original Message----- >From: David Williams [mailto:dlw@trailingedge.com] >Sent: Tuesday, October 06, 1998 1:50 PM >To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers >Subject: Aquarius Data Recorders > > >I just received an email from a local group which has 250 new in >box Aquarius cassette recorders. They are taking bids but I >suspect you can't just buy a few but would have to take the whole >lot. I have one but could use at least one more and maybe two and >it would be nice to have the box and any doc or cables. Is there >any interest in this out there? If so, how much would people be >willing to pay? Don't forget shipping costs. Let me know. BTW, >"local" in this case is Houston, TX. > > >----- >David Williams - Computer Packrat >dlw(a)trailingedge.com >http://www.trailingedge.com

27 years, 8 months

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Update 2 - Aquarius Data Recorders

by Marty＠itgonline.com

______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Update 2 - Aquarius Data Recorders Author: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu at internet Date: 10/8/98 1:10 PM I just received more info on the Data Recorders... they had a "mis- communication", there are 3 pallets of 240 recorders each! 720 recorders total!!! They have agreed to let the pallets go separately. I'd like to know where they came up with these. Anyway, I guess I'll make them an offer on one pallet, I can't save them all. I guess the other 480 of them will hit the scrapers. Then I just have to figure out what to do with the remaining 220 recorders that haven't been claimed yet. >I can see it now... >Quick! Get your EXTREMELY RARE, IMPOSSIBLE TO FIND >Aquarius Data Recorder. No collector can live without one or three >or more! MINT CONDITION IN ORIGINAL BOX!! Opening bid only >$500. Move fast because I have to run 200 more auctions just like >this one. ;-) ;-) ;-) You forgot to include L@@K!!!! or maybe GASP!!! Marty ----- David Williams - Computer Packrat dlw(a)trailingedge.com http://www.trailingedge.com ------ Message Header Follows ------ Received: from lists3.u.washington.edu by smtp.itgonline.com (PostalUnion/SMTP(tm) v2.1.9i(b5) for Windows NT(tm)) id AA-1998Oct08.131012.1767.68580; Thu, 08 Oct 1998 13:10:13 -0400 Received: from host (lists.u.washington.edu [140.142.56.13]) by lists3.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW98.06) with SMTP id KAA04272; Thu, 8 Oct 1998 10:07:39 -0700 Received: from mxu2.u.washington.edu (mxu2.u.washington.edu [140.142.32.9]) by lists.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW98.06) with ESMTP id KAA60200 for <classiccmp(a)lists.u.washington.edu>; Thu, 8 Oct 1998 10:07:35 -0700 Received: from trailingedge.com (IDENT:root@trailingedge.com [208.150.226.125]) by mxu2.u.washington.edu (8.9.1+UW98.09/8.9.1+UW98.09) with ESMTP id KAA00 205 for <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>; Thu, 8 Oct 1998 10:07:34 -0700 Received: from lovelyangel.advfilms.com (lovelyangel.advfilms.com [208.150.226.79]) by trailingedge.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id MAA27382 for <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>; Thu, 8 Oct 1998 12:07:36 -0500 Message-Id: <199810081707.MAA27382(a)trailingedge.com> Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 12:07:24 -0500 Reply-To: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu Sender: CLASSICCMP-owner(a)u.washington.edu Precedence: bulk From: "David Williams" <dlw(a)trailingedge.com> To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Subject: Update 2 - Aquarius Data Recorders In-Reply-To: <199810081532.KAA26709(a)trailingedge.com> References: <002401bdf2b4$5324d600$42097c18(a)thedm.lawrence.ks.us> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.1 beta -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN

27 years, 8 months

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eBay strangeness

by wanderer＠bos.nl

>> Am wondering if it is me or if everyone is experiencing this? Someone has listed an Altair 4k memory board. The eBay item number is 34468468. Whenever I go to this listing, my computer locks up. It has happened every time I have tried since earlier in the day. Only happens with this listing and no others. It seems to happen as soon as eBay starts to download the photo from the seller's web site. I have never experienced this with any other eBay auction. Bob Wood << Hmm, I went to that item and out of the 5 pictures, only the last one did not get loaded for some reason. The pics do look very good however. Ed -- The Wanderer | Geloof nooit een politicus! wanderer(a)bos.nl | Europarlementariers: http://www.bos.nl/homes/wanderer | zakkenvullers en dumpplaats voor Unix Lives! windows95 is rommel! | mislukte politici. '96 GSXR 1100R | See http://www.bos.nl/homes/wanderer/gates.html for a funny pic. of Gates!

27 years, 8 months

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What was the first Unix micro?

by Joel＠VirtualAdmin.com

I was told about 20 years ago that it was Western Electric. They were the 2nd largest manufacturer of PDP-11 next to DEC and produced them under license for their "customer" AT&T. -----Original Message----- From: Ward Donald Griffiths III [mailto:gram@cnct.com] Sent: Wednesday, October 07, 1998 10:23 PM To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Subject: What was the first Unix micro? OK, I'm getting tired of the arguments about who made the first microprocessor. Fine. Maybe God did -- it's called DNA and as an atheist I don't grant credit to anybody. Trivia question: who made the first successful mass-produced _and_ mass-marketed (in one system) Unix hardware platform? -- Ward Griffiths <mailto:gram@cnct.com> <http://www.cnct.com/home/gram/> When I was crossing the border into Canada, they asked me if I had any firearms with me. I said "Well, what do you need?" -- Steven Wright

27 years, 8 months

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Convergent Technologies workSlate

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 03:13 AM 10/4/98 -0700, you wrote: >The Model 100 OTOH is more structured around word processing, I'd say. >This could be another reason for the 100's popularity and the workSlate's >lack of popularity. The m100 has three useful programs (and two worthless ones) in ROM: BASIC, Text, and TelCom. The "operating system" consists of 4 or 5 lines of 4 columns of filenames (including the ROM based ones) which you select by moving a cursor with the arrow keys and hitting return. The other half of the OpSys was BASIC commands. What really got the m100 selling, though, IMO was the fact that it could be had at Radio Shack -- and there are (were) about a gazillion of those. How many Convergent stores were there? (Or, for that matter, NEC, Olivetti, and Kyocera, who all sold versions of the Kyocera machine that the m100 was based on.) I bought my m100 with a credit card at a Radio Shack. --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/

27 years, 8 months

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Heathkit H8 vs. H-89

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< Does anybody know if the H8 and H-89 were software compatible? I know < CP/M was available for the H-89 (as well as HDOS), but I've only heard < rumors of an H-8 CP/M -- maybe they're the same? They were somewhat software compatable in that the both ran 8080 based software. The H89 was z80, the H8 was 8080, they had differenet IO port and memory maps. Both had different disk formats. CPM for both could be the same in the sense that the CCP and BDOS were always the same... The bios however was likely very different as that is the part that interacts with the IO and disks. Allison

27 years, 8 months

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Update 2 - Aquarius Data Recorders

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< the other 480 of them will hit the scrapers. Then I just have to < figure out what to do with the remaining 220 recorders that haven't < been claimed yet. Are these basically portable audio recroders or something special? Please describe them. Allison

27 years, 8 months

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Latets finds

by mbg＠world.std.com

>It looks like the vt62 could be equipped with an additional printer >unit. Is this correct? It takes the same thermal printer as found in the VT55... Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+

27 years, 8 months

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Latets finds

by wanderer＠bos.nl

Hey All, Got this weekend an Intel 8085 System Design Kit (in original box) with manuals and a Dec vt62. It looks like the vt62 could be equipped with an additional printer unit. Is this correct? Regards, Ed

27 years, 8 months

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Thrift-store goodies

by aaron＠wfi-inc.com

Light haul at the thrifts today, but a couple of nifties: "Computer Technicians Handbook, 3rd Edition" by Art Margolis - $0.95 Magnavox RGB 80 composite monitor - $4.95 Wyse 60, no keyboard - $4.95 Large PC board etching kit, unopened - $1.95 Aaron

27 years, 8 months

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Help: Identify my board

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< > Can someone help identify this board? It has a 8085AH CPU in the A9 < > socket. On the right the board says "Intel (C) 1977 MADE IN USA." On t < > back of the circuit board is etched "PWB1001480-03 REV H." If you wan < > to see what the board looks like click on my link below. Processor for a Intel model 220 development system is a good possibility. Unfortunately the copyright date on intel board has little to do with design and manufacture date. Allison

27 years, 8 months

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What was the first Unix micro?

by Marty＠itgonline.com

I second your opinion Sam. Marty ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Re: What was the first Unix micro? Author: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu at internet Date: 10/7/98 11:42 PM On Wed, 7 Oct 1998, Ward Donald Griffiths III wrote: > OK, I'm getting tired of the arguments about who made the first > microprocessor. Fine. Maybe God did -- it's called DNA and as an > atheist I don't grant credit to anybody. Oh, ok. God forbid we discuss computer history on this list, Ward. We'll just go away now so you can fill up the list with your pointless one-line replies. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever onward. Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0 See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 09/21/98] ------ Message Header Follows ------ Received: from lists2.u.washington.edu by smtp.itgonline.com (PostalUnion/SMTP(tm) v2.1.9i(b5) for Windows NT(tm)) id AA-1998Oct07.234233.1767.68426; Wed, 07 Oct 1998 23:42:34 -0400 Received: from host (lists.u.washington.edu [140.142.56.13]) by lists2.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW98.06) with SMTP id UAA08061; Wed, 7 Oct 1998 20:40:21 -0700 Received: from mxu1.u.washington.edu (mxu1.u.washington.edu [140.142.32.8]) by lists.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW98.06) with ESMTP id UAA29970 for <classiccmp(a)lists.u.washington.edu>; Wed, 7 Oct 1998 20:40:16 -0700 Received: from mailhub2.ncal.verio.com (mailhub2.ncal.verio.com [204.247.247.54]) by mxu1.u.washington.edu (8.9.1+UW98.09/8.9.1+UW98.09) with ESMTP id UAA13 302 for <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>; Wed, 7 Oct 1998 20:40:15 -0700 Received: from shell1.ncal.verio.com (dastar(a)shell1.ncal.verio.com [204.247.248.254]) by mailhub2.ncal.verio.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id UAA03164 for <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>; Wed, 7 Oct 1998 20:40:14 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <Pine.GSO.3.96.981007203816.10432B-100000(a)shell1.ncal.verio.com> Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 20:40:13 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu Sender: CLASSICCMP-owner(a)u.washington.edu Precedence: bulk From: Sam Ismail <dastar(a)ncal.verio.com> To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Subject: Re: What was the first Unix micro? In-Reply-To: <361C2218.3E448C98(a)cnct.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.1 beta -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN

27 years, 8 months

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kits, definitions, prices...

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< It looks like the only characteristic that a multi-chip implementation < partially breaks here is "highly integrated". Then again, a two-chip < implementation is not necessarily much less integrated than a single-chi < Now I wonder why this level of integration matters. Is there something < that a two-chip implementation can't do, and a single-chip can? Did < people really care about this level of space-savings to the extent that < it was worth introducing a new word into the language? The key is the limits of IC gate density of the moment. Now we can have lterally millions so complexity is very high. Back when (1970-71) teh semi houses were hitting the ceiling at about 1000 gates/2500 raw devices to a chunk of silicon. So splitting a function across two chips was not unresonable idea. It's was a reflection of *manufacturability*. < Actually, until ten minutes ago, I would have had trouble calling the < two-chip thing a microprocessor because it broke the definition I learne < as a kid: single-chip. But even the characteristic of being similar to < 4004 is relevant to the extent that you are careful in choosing which wa < it has to be similar. The first 4004's were probably in ceramic; shoul < that be part of the definition? Probably not. Why did we care about th < 4004? Is being implemented on a single chip really the important bit? < was it cost, ease of use, small size, ...? A two-chip implementation < could very well have been important to us for exactly the same reasons < that the 4004 was. The 4004 was significant at several levels. It was relatively low cost commercial product. It had a return address stack. It had a fairly large number of registers (for that time it was a very large number). There were other chips to facilitate low cost construction of dedicated systems. Being few is packages and low in numbers of pins made PCboard consturction cheap. the PMOS process used was low power compared to TTL or DTL of the time. Each one of those elements were significant relative to computer systems of the day regrdless of the type! < So, when is it useful to distinguish single-chip from, say, dual-chip? When talking at the archetecture level or when interfacing. < What kind of practical decision would someone make based on that? COST, number of pins, flexibility. The LSI-11 for example was the WD13 chip set, with differnt MICROMS it was the Alpha Micro or the WD microengine. Same chips some containing differnt microcode. If you have a LSI-11 and the rare but manufacured WCS you could acutally add instructions to your LSI-11 to suit specialized needs. This is not doable with most single chip implmentations. < BTW, was the 4004 really the first in the Intel series of 4004, 4040, < 8008, and 8080? I seem to remember that something in this sequence < actually happened in non-ascending order, like maybe the 8008 preceded < the 4004, or the 4040 came out last, or ...? It could make sense; you < could imagine scaling back an existing design to penetrate some niche < market with a cheaper part.

27 years, 8 months

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Apple power supply problems

by dburrows＠netpath.net

One method that I have used for years with equipment that blows fuses is to put a light bulb in line with the incoming power. Depending on the actual correct load of the equipment determines the wattage of the bulb needed. On normal operation the bulb will light to about 1/4 to 1/2 of normal then dim. (typical inrush - charging caps.) If the bulb lights near fully it is taking the load instead of blowing the fuse. At this time you can use a meter and find the defective component. Usual caution applies the equipment is floating if the bulb is in line with neutral. Dan Burrows dburrows(a)netpath.net -----Original Message----- From: John Foust <jfoust(a)threedee.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Thursday, October 08, 1998 12:30 PM Subject: Re: Apple power supply problems >At 08:34 AM 10/8/98 -0700, Marvin wrote: >> Running it a short time with >>the fuse shorted out heated up the chip and I was able to feel where the >>problem was. Troubleshooting vs normal operation :). > >And sometimes when you do that, the dead chips will notify you >of their new condition by blowing their tops. > >- John

27 years, 8 months

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Heathkit H8 vs. H-89

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< seems though, everybody wrote assembler code so that either the s/w chec < to see which processor was used or wrote straight 8080 asm code to just < cover everybody without having the extra CPU checking code taking up spa < Most commercial language interpreters and compilers, especially from Hea < handled 8080-based machines for sure. Generally true but, not absolutley so.. however some bios used Z80 code to do disk io or used 8080 code tricks that do not run on z80. Come from having aboth an 8085 powered s100 (explorer 8085) and a slew of z80 systems. < Allison, for the H8 there were at least two third-party Z80 CPU boards m < (I can look up the mfgrs if anybody wants) and a Heath-made Z80 board. I'm well aware of them and helped several friends bring them up. < Early on when the Z80 became rather popular, the original 8080 CPU boar < was of course found to be lacking in performance compared to the TRS-80' < N*, Kaypros, various S100's and other contemporary CP/M Z80 machines. < Hence, the little cottage industry, so to speak, which sprang up to dea < with making Z80 boards. A 4 MHz CPU by DG Micro (I think that's the name I went to z80 in early 1977 as the 8080 already had a case of impending doom being limited to 2mhz and fewer instructions. The better instruction set of the z80 was enough in itself. < really was a performer up against many other machines. The H-89 was a Z8 < machine when it first was introduced around 1980 or thereabouts. Yes, h89 was mid 1980, by then the z80 had permutated the software for cpm systems. Consider that S100 system ahd all pretty much gone z80 by 1978 and the few non z80 systems were either dual processsor like Compupro 8/16 or oddball the Autocontrol AC85 (8085/5mhz). The ZCPR CCP replacement and widespread use of z80s made for major software like languages to be 8080 compatable at the expense of performance while the system would have a bios written using z80 extended. Allison

27 years, 8 months

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Question: Godbout/CompuPro ram boards

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< I seem to recall that one (or more) of the Godbout/CompuPro ram boards u < a 2kx8 static RAM part that had the same pinout as a 2716 EPROM, and cou < support 2716s in place of some/all of the RAM chips. True or false? Ram16 and RAM17 both used 6116 2kx8 but neither were configurable for 2716 Eproms. It can be done but it would be a hack. Allison

27 years, 8 months

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AES computer with 8-inch disks?

by jfoust＠threedee.com

Below is a description of a system with some data to be rescued. I've already responded to the people mentioned, so there's no need to respond again. I asked for more details, if they had any: when was it used, what software did it run, whether the disk is soft- or hard-sectored. I have no idea, though, what kind of system this was. Does "AES" ring a bell with any Canadian readers? - John >>Sent from: Gilles Poitras <cowpunk(a)sirius.com> >> >>This is from a mailing list for theological librarians that I am on. >> >>Can anyone help out? >> >>>"Accelerating obsolescence" strikes again. >>> >>>Professor Dr Hans Rollmann, who supervises one of the more elegant and >>>elaborate sites on the WorldWideWeb for the Department of Religious Studies >>>at Memorial University in Newfoundland, has found some important primary >>>data that he hopes to mount with other texts on the site. These data are >>>imprisoned on 8-inch computer disks that were made on an AES computer, >>>apparently in the 1980s. No printed record of the material survives; only >>>the 8-inch disks remain. No AES computer or 8-inch drive exists at Memorial >>>University; the technical services people from the Computing Sciences >>>Department tried to build an 8-inch drive from spare parts, but came up >>>short. The intellectual content frozen in this "obsolete" technology >>>remains unreadable. >>> >>>Does anyone know the whereabouts of an intact AES computer? Failing that, >>>is there any available information about these machines? What did the >>>acronym AES stand for? Where was it built? Most important, what operating >>>system did it use? What word processing software might have been loaded? >>> >>>Has anyone preserved any computer with an 8-inch disk drive? As I recall, >>>both Commodore and Atari used 8-inch drives. >>> >>>Anyone who has useful information on this problem can communicate with >>>Professor Rollmann at >>> >>> hrollman(a)morgan.ucs.mun.ca >>> >>>Those who may be interested in his religious studies web site can begin >>>sifting through its many layers at >>> >>> http://www.ucs.mun.ca/~hrollman >>> >>>Professor Rollmann will be grateful for any assistance anyone can offer. >>>The rest of us need to be sure that any intellectual material we >>>"catalogue" can also be "read."

27 years, 8 months

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North Star Horizon Help

by bobstek＠ix5.ix.netcom.com

I have a manual for the N* HRAM series which I'd be happy to copy and send you - email me. There are some differences between revision B and E boards and there are lots of jumper options. In summary, S1 and S2 select the active memory areas, JP1 selects the bank status on reset and selects I/O control bits for bank switching and parity, JP2 selects areas to be bank switched, JP3 selects the parity error response, JP4 implements the First Quadrant option (only revision E 48K version), and JP6 is reserved (no jumper). Bob Stek bobstek(a)ix.netcom.com Saver of Lost SOLs (and the occasional Horizon)

27 years, 8 months

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Question: Godbout/CompuPro ram boards

by ddameron＠earthlink.net

Hi Jim and all, At 10:50 PM 10/7/98 -0700, you wrote: >Can anyone confirm this vague memory, or set me straight? > >I seem to recall that one (or more) of the Godbout/CompuPro ram boards used >a 2kx8 static RAM part that had the same pinout as a 2716 EPROM, and could >support 2716s in place of some/all of the RAM chips. True or false? > >And if true, was there any special configuration that needed to be done for >the 2716s? > A 6116 is a 2kx8 static ram. The only difference in its pinout from a 2716 is pin 21. For the 6116 it is /write enable (active low). For the 2716 it is V(program). For read it is tied to 5V, it needs a higher voltage and current, up to 5mA, so just a TTL "1" isn't enough. Can you jumper this pin to +5 volts? -Dave

27 years, 8 months

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kits, definitions, prices...

by yakowenk＠cs.unc.edu

Hey, several threads just coalesced in my head. (Ouch!) There are a handful of questions that keep getting re-hashed. Build my SwTPC kit and play with it, or treasure it in pristine form? Is my LSI-11 a micro, or not? Are my XT's really classic? Should I hack my Apple-1 to sub in a 99 GHz Pentium for the 6502? Wanna buy a 1200 baud modem? The problem is that we have so many different backgrounds and goals, everybody has different answers to those. So, when these questions come up, maybe instead of arguing about the right answers, we could gain more by digging backwards to the *reasons* for the different answers. Here are my two cents: Most of my stupid sample questions revolve around differing valuations. Sources of value. 1. Nostalgia I had/wanted one of these once. 2. Education This is really different from stuff I already know. 3. Preservationism There are only three left on the entire planet. If I don't protect it, soon there won't be any. 4. Usability I make practical use of it. 5. Money There are only three left on the entire planet. Somebody must be willing to pay a lot for it. .. any more? So building a Heathkit is good for reasons 1, 2, and 4; and bad on 3 and 5. In my own collection, different items hit different buttons. I play games on my Radio Shack Color Computers, so they hit button 4. I also hack around in machine code on them, so they hit button 2. And I've done quite a bit of work with 6809's, so they hit button 1 as well. (No wonder I have such a pile of CoCos!) My SwTPC kit is still unbuilt for reason 3. It doesn't hit buttons 1 or 2 so hard because I also have an assembled one which covers those nicely. (Man, I'm a lucky guy!) And it seems my own button 5 isn't connected to anything. But other peoples' seem to work just fine. The one sample question still unanswered is a definition thing. So maybe the root question should be, why is one definition better than another? I learned the definition of microprocessor to be a single-chip CPU, and a microcomputer to be a computer based on a microprocessor. But I never questioned it. Why is that a useful definition? Maybe it is a measure of how hard it would be to build a system around it. Which in turn could be correlated with cost, and so with popularity. By that reasoning, if you get the same functionality out of a smallish chip-set as a single chip, and the price is the same, both should be considered as micros. Or maybe it has more to do with physical size of the end result; if you have a single chip instead of four, it leaves you with more room to put the rest of the computer on that same PC board. Maybe that could be really important for hobbyists. (I know my own attempts at homebrewing were all SBC's.) But there is a red herring in all this. External VLSI support chips are a convenience. You could have built an 8080 system without the 8228. You would just use a boatload of TTL instead. So again, the issue is probably just cost of doing so (money, time, space). Was the 8080 more expensive in any way because of the 8228's existance? No. Was it any less of a microcomputer? Either the 8228 was enough of an improvement over the boatload of TTL that it made 8080 systems doable (ie, made it a micro), or maybe the lack of the 8228 circuitry in the 8080 chip itself still made it impractical for some (ie, made it a non-micro). It depends on where your thresholds are. You can still argue about whether or not the 8080 without an 8228 is a complete CPU, but my point is that this may not be worth arguing. What is the practical impact of having the entire CPU on one chip vs. two? How does it change anyone's behaviour? *That* could be worth some discussion. I have my own ideas about which things are micros and which are not, but in retrospect, the definition that I was taught is not a useful one; it does not classify things into categories that I can use to any benefit. Cheers, Bill.

27 years, 8 months

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Question: Godbout/CompuPro ram boards

by CLASSICCMP＠timaxp.trailing-edge.com

>I seem to recall that one (or more) of the Godbout/CompuPro ram boards used >a 2kx8 static RAM part that had the same pinout as a 2716 EPROM, and could >support 2716s in place of some/all of the RAM chips. True or false? True! The part is the Hitachi (or compatible) 6116P-2. >And if true, was there any special configuration that needed to be done for >the 2716s? It depends on the exact board; most boards that would take either had a jumper per socket to set RAM vs EPROM. Which board are you specifically interested in? When I bought out the stock of the last remaining Compupro dealer I ended up with most of the manuals in addition to hundreds of boards... This feature certainly wasn't confined to Compupro; there were several dozen other manufacturers of memory boards that did this, too. Most of the time the jumpers are pretty obvious, though some weren't below requiring the user to do PC board surgery. -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology Voice: 301-767-5917 7328 Bradley Blvd Fax: 301-767-5927 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817

27 years, 8 months

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RT-11 on 8" media

by CLASSICCMP＠timaxp.trailing-edge.com

> Is there available on the Web this info? Probably, but the authoratitive source for this sort of thing is the manual that matches the version of RT you're interested in. > Also, I have an 11/73 with RT-11SJ V5.0.... it has an 8" drive. >What would I have to do to make a bootable minimal floppy on this >machine? In other words how few files can one get away with to wake >up a PDP11 with only an RX02 clone as it's mass storage? That's easy: SWAP.SYS, TT.SYS, DY.SYS (or DX.SYS or whatever driver your hardware uses for the 8" drive), and a monitor (RT11SJ.SYS). This gives you a bootable minimal floppy which is capable of doing very little :-). Almost certainly you want to put PIP, DIR, DUP, FORMAT, and other useful "recovery utilities" on as well (BUP if you use it, your favorite editor, etc.). And certainly the drivers for any other devices you may be interested in. And, of course, after putting the files on the floppy, you want to make it hardware bootable too! COPY/BOOT DY:RT11SJ DY:, for example. -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology Voice: 301-767-5917 7328 Bradley Blvd Fax: 301-767-5927 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817

27 years, 8 months

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Latets finds

by franke＠sbs.de

>>> It looks like the vt62 could be equipped with an additional printer >>> unit. Is this correct? > I believe the VT62 is somewhat related to the VT52. The VT62 is a VT52 with inverse video. thats all. Gruss H. -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK

27 years, 8 months

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Latest finds

by franke＠sbs.de

> I got the kit for 50 guilders ($25), which is not a bad price if > you ask me for such a near complete kit. As for the moment, I don't > ha

27 years, 8 months

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New Finds

by jrkeys＠concentric.net

Today I walked into a thrift store and found a stack of Popular Science, Popular Mechanics, and others going back to 1974. I got real excited thinking I would find that had Altair on the cover (does anyone remember which issue that was ?), but no luck. I did get a October 1977 issue that covers home computers for $595. In it were pictures and write-ups on the following: Commodore PET Heath H-8 (article says new H-11 uses DEC LSI-1) Radio Shack model 1 Altair 8800 Single-board 8084 from IMSAI Southwest Technical's 6800 Sol Terminal Computer Technical Design Labs Z-80 Xitan Compucolor The Digital Group Cromeco Z-2 Poly 88 from PolyMorphic Vector Graphic Vector 1+ Challenger System from OSI EPA 6800 with hexidecimal keyboard There were many more mentioned in the article, all together I purchased 12 different issues at 7 cents each. Got a few manuals for cpu's, software, and printers all for 7 cents each. Got three apple IIc power supplies for $1 each along with various commodore power supplies for the same price. As soon as someone can tell me the right issue I will go back looking for it. John

27 years, 8 months

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Atari returns from the grave

by franke＠sbs.de

> http://www.milan-computer.de/html_gb/produkt.html The Machine is already in European Shops since half a year. Last Week they showed the 50 MHz 060 Version at the Atari Messe in Neuss, Germany. 80 MHz is anounced around december. This ist not a back from Grave thing - he is still alive and better than ever. Gruss H. -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK

27 years, 8 months

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Looking for -10 software

by mbg＠world.std.com

Would anyone happen to have sources (and maybe even binaries) for EDDT or any programs which come on paper tape for the -10? I, um, er, need to test some code... :-) Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+

27 years, 8 months

2
1
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Irwin 125 floppy tape drive

by svs＠ropnet.ru

G'day, What software for PC-DOS can drive this monster? Whopping 20 megabytes per tape :) I'll try Linux ftape too, but in case it fails, I'd like to have an alternative. -- Sergey Svishchev -- svs{at}ropnet{dot}ru

27 years, 8 months

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kits, definitions, prices...

by franke＠sbs.de

> Cameron Kaiser wrote: >> :: Should I hack my Apple-1 to sub in a 99 GHz Pentium for the 6502? >> Wash your mouth out with soap! (How about a 65816? :-) > You mean an Apple-1/GS? Hmm wouldn't give the 65802 the better replacement ? Gruss H. -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK

27 years, 8 months

1
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TRS-80 Model 100 (was Re: Convergent Technologies workS

by franke＠sbs.de

>>> thrown in. The NEC and Olivetti versions depended on external modems >> I have the Olivetti version - an M10, and the PCB certainly has positions >> for the internal modem components. Now, it would be quite normal for a UK >> machine not to have the modem (our CCITT tones are different from Bell >> tones at 300 baud, and there are different approval requirements), so I >> assumed that the US model had the modem fitted. > I have never read a report or review of an M-10 with an internal modem. > And the magazines that covered the Model 100 _did_ review the Olivetti > and NEC products, but of course those magazines were rather more than > three moves ago (per Poor Richard, three removes equals one fire), but > I do recall that they all had the same Kyocera main board with minor > changes per customer. Maybe no Magazine did review it, but I own an M10 with internal Modem. Gruss H. -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK

27 years, 8 months

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Eventual fate of our machines

by franke＠sbs.de

> There's always that issue. I find it analogous to retirement homes in > this area. People 'buy' a retirment home, townhouse, apartment, etc. for > a fixed price and then live there. When they die, it belongs to the > retirement home to sell again. The cycle continues. If you've seen some > of the homes around here, you know they've been around for a while. Part > of the charge funds maintenance fees and lawn care (the latter not being > important for computers). The continuous re-renting of the property > helps keep the available funds around to maintain everything. > I'm not saying that the 'organization' fund for maintenance to whoever > rented the computer, but the concept is similar. The end goal in this > case is to do what's possible to keep it around for the next person. I always fear that 'the organisation' will be put before the mission - in this case profit maximization instead of preserving the past. >>But, if we could keep it to a small and more individual to >>individual base, I'm in. > Do I hear charters? ??? Maybe I lost the thread here. >>> Some of the funding can also be used to provide insurance coverage to >>> members by people who know the value of what's being insured. >>Thats a very dangerous terrain. > I do agree with you. Here, in the state of Pennsylvania, insurance of > any type is heavily regulated. It may not be as bad for other states or > countries. Maybe not - Afaik are insurances around the world very heavy regulated - to keep fraud away and to get enough taxes ... Another possible aproach might be to cooperate with insurance companies. Maybe the same way as for old car collections. At least here in Germany some (smaler) insurance companies are offering very interesting deals in cooperation with Verteran associations. One can get an all included insurance for a USD 200,000 veteran car for less than an minimal insurance for a actual USD 60,000 Mercedes. It just took around 15 years of talks to give them the idea how the collectors handle the cars and whats all this old car stuff is about. There are now even premium insurances where they will pay a complete rebuild of the car, even when burned. Even when a 'new' would be cheaper - and all at an afordable rate - thats exactly what a collector want: keep HIS car (computer) not just one of the same kind. Gruss H. -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK

27 years, 8 months

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Eventual fate of our machines

by franke＠sbs.de

Sam: > On Wed, 7 Oct 1998, Hans Franke wrote: >> At first, a 'big' collection, like a museum (and I just >> assume there will be in the future some computer museums >> at least the size of car collections) will have already >> more than 95% of your (or mine) collection, counting the >> CPU's, so they only need 5% for display. The rest will be >> surplus or spare parts in best case. >> Second, they will have, for shure, already more computers >> and accessories than they are able to display. So yours >> might never be seen again autside the warehouse. >> Third, (and most important in my eyes) 99% of all of the >> hard to get software and documentation will never go on >> display > But at least it will be preserved for future research, which is important. or stay for some years until decomposed and ready for enhancing the vegetables area of your garden (like the former owner ...) >> Personal I have not decided what to do with my collection >> (althrugh I alredy have a last will where several persons >> are picked to get some parts or to be responsible for the >> distribution). > You mean you don't remember signing them over to me when you were > visiting? Alcohol does that to a brain. (You'd better check your wallet > too.) Of course I remember about our deal. As soun as the USD 100,000.00 are on my secret swiss account, you will get the promise of full and undivided ownership of all my VIC-20 stuff. >> c) sell them among fellow collectors for their real >> value. That means for example 100 USD for a C65 >> or a chicklet PET. > Are we talking eBay dollars or swap meet dollars? Just talkin about what I belive any old computer is worth: a nice talk and 1 to 5 USD or maybe 50 to 100 USD for real ohmigodicantbelive finds. (Just my personal feeling - In fact I pay most time a lot more :() Gruss H. -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK

27 years, 8 months

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Eventual fate of our machines

by CLASSICCMP＠trailing-edge.com

>Has there been any discussion about the eventual fate of our collections >after we are gone? Well, some supersymmetric (SUSY) theories of grand unification predict that protons will eventually decay. Current experiments put the mean life of the proton at well over 10^40 years, so I'm not too worried myself. -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology Voice: 301-767-5917 7328 Bradley Blvd Fax: 301-767-5927 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817

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Question: Godbout/CompuPro ram boards

by kaikal＠MICROSOFT.com

Well, both the RAM16 and RAM17 use 24-pin 2Kx8 6116 SRAMs, but I checked the tech manuals and there is no mention of EPROM compatibility. The RAM20 was back to 18-pin DIPs, and all the Godbout Econorams I've seen are 18-pin. In short, no clue... Kai -----Original Message----- From: James Willing [mailto:jimw@agora.rdrop.com] Sent: Wednesday, October 07, 1998 10:50 PM To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Subject: Question: Godbout/CompuPro ram boards Can anyone confirm this vague memory, or set me straight? I seem to recall that one (or more) of the Godbout/CompuPro ram boards used a 2kx8 static RAM part that had the same pinout as a 2716 EPROM, and could support 2716s in place of some/all of the RAM chips. True or false? And if true, was there any special configuration that needed to be done for the 2716s? -jim --- jimw(a)agora.rdrop.com The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174

27 years, 8 months

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eBay strangeness

by kaikal＠MICROSOFT.com

Yeah, an unbuilt kit 4K memory board. Which is kind of neat, but it follows in the footsteps of all the bizarre bare unpopulated Altair circuit boards that have been on eBay lately. Did you notice the PET that STARTS at $575?!? Kai -----Original Message----- From: Bob Wood [mailto:altair8800@hotmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, October 07, 1998 10:29 PM To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Subject: eBay strangeness Am wondering if it is me or if everyone is experiencing this? Someone has listed an Altair 4k memory board. The eBay item number is 34468468. Whenever I go to this listing, my computer locks up. It has happened every time I have tried since earlier in the day. Only happens with this listing and no others. It seems to happen as soon as eBay starts to download the photo from the seller's web site. I have never experienced this with any other eBay auction. Bob Wood ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

27 years, 8 months

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RT-11 on 8" media

by mbg＠world.std.com

>In a box of Stuff, I got 2 cartons of BASF 8".... one of which is >marked "RT-11 V3 System DO NOT OVERWRITE!!!". Congrats... been a while since I've seen one... > All this absurd and useless detail aside... I am wondering if >there is a 'Minimum Set' of files, which placed on a floppy(ies) >would boot a PDP11... and, I am assuming, it would require Sysgenning? It's been so long since I saw a V3 kit, I've forgotten whether it was a version with split monitors and device handlers, or if the monitor had to have the system device built in (and the table for all other supported ones as well). If the latter, than you'll probably need to locate a file with a name of the form RXMNSJ.SYS (for RX01 MoNitor - Single Job). This file, with SWAP.SYS and PIP.SAV and you should have enough to start. You'll have to write the bootstrap on it, which, if I remember correctly, was done with .R PIP *DX:A=DX:RXMNSJ.SYS/O *^C (I don't think DCL was available yet... maybe CCL, but it is clumsy). If the former, then you'll need: SWAP.SYS RT11SJ.SYS DX.SYS PIP.SAV (and the bootstrap, written as mentioned above). > Is there available on the Web this info? There is a faq - I've forgotten where it is located... > Also, I have an 11/73 with RT-11SJ V5.0.... it has an 8" drive. >What would I have to do to make a bootable minimal floppy on this >machine? In other words how few files can one get away with to wake >up a PDP11 with only an RX02 clone as it's mass storage? By V5.0 time, the split monitors/handlers had been long accomplished, and DCL was around, and PIP had been split, so you'll need the following: SWAP.SYS RT11SJ.SYS (or RT11FB.SYS or RT11XM.SYS) DX.SYS (or DX.SYS or DXX.SYS) (plus any other device drivers you want) DIR.SAV DUP.SAV PIP.SAV RESORC.SAV And creating a bootable floopy is as simple as: COPY/BOOT DX0:RT11SJ.SYS DX0: (or substitute RT11FB or RT11XM) Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+

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Question: Godbout/CompuPro ram boards

by jimw＠agora.rdrop.com

Can anyone confirm this vague memory, or set me straight? I seem to recall that one (or more) of the Godbout/CompuPro ram boards used a 2kx8 static RAM part that had the same pinout as a 2716 EPROM, and could support 2716s in place of some/all of the RAM chips. True or false? And if true, was there any special configuration that needed to be done for the 2716s? -jim --- jimw(a)agora.rdrop.com The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174

27 years, 8 months

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Top 10 Holy Grails of Classic Microcomputer Collecting

by SUPRDAVE＠aol.com

I'd also add the apple lisa. In a message dated 10/5/98 5:52:53 PM US Eastern Standard Time, kaikal(a)MICROSOFT.com writes: << ust for the hell of it, I thought I'd make a list of the Top 10 Holy Grails of classic microcomputer computer collecting. This is the "Rembrandt in the Attic" sort of stuff. These are roughly in my opinionated order, but somewhat randomly ordered: 1. The Altair prototype that was to be the cover photo for Popular Electronics but was lost in shipment 2. Xerox Alto 3. Mark 8 4. Scelbi 8H 5. Kenbak-1 6. Micral 8008 7. Apple I 8. An unassembled Altair 8800 Kit 9. Busicom Japan Intel 4004-based Calculator 10. IBM 5100 >>

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kits, definitions, prices...

by yakowenk＠cs.unc.edu

Caution: long-winded blather follows. Read at your own risk. :-) On Wed, 7 Oct 1998, Doug Yowza wrote: ] ] On Wed, 7 Oct 1998, Bill Yakowenko wrote: ] > I learned the definition of microprocessor to be a single-chip CPU, and ] > a microcomputer to be a computer based on a microprocessor. But I never ] > questioned it. Why is that a useful definition? ] [...] ] > I have my own ideas about which things are micros and which are not, but ] > in retrospect, the definition that I was taught is not a useful one; it ] > does not classify things into categories that I can use to any benefit. ] ] Exactly. Naming things is just a way to classify them, to separate one ] kind of thing from another. So, the first time a term like ] "microprocessor" is coined is due to necessity -- a new thing came into ] being and it needed a name. Applying that name to things that follow is a ] convienient way to establish a relationship to the original thing. Must it be things that *follow*? If another company had independently developed a single-chip CPU before Intel, (say they killed the project because some marketer popped in from the future and convinced them that Wintel would eventually kill it anyway) could you not bring yourself to call that thing a microprocessor? Isn't it the thing's physical properties that should matter, and not its intellectual ancestry? You are not a patent lawyer on the side, are you? :-) ] As far as I know, the name "microprocessor" was first given to Intel's ] 4004. It was just shorthand for "this new thing that has a high level of ] logic integration that gives you a bunch of stuff needed to build a ] general purpose computer." Calling anything else a microprocessor, to me, ] is just a way of saying it's a CPU that is in the same class as the Intel ] 4004: general purpose, highly integrated, commercially available, etc. Actually, it is not clear to me now if you consider that the defining characteristic of a microprocessor is that it descended from the 4004, or that it be single-chip. It looks like the only characteristic that a multi-chip implementation partially breaks here is "highly integrated". Then again, a two-chip implementation is not necessarily much less integrated than a single-chip. Now I wonder why this level of integration matters. Is there something that a two-chip implementation can't do, and a single-chip can? Did people really care about this level of space-savings to the extent that it was worth introducing a new word into the language? Maybe the significant bit was that the entire CPU was in specialized VLSI, and not made from parts so small and generic as to be re-wirable into something else altogether (ie: SSI/MSI). I mean, being reconfigurable is not in itself a bad thing, but if you are using parts that are so small and generic, maybe you have not achieved the level of integration that brings big cost benefits. If we count the non-genericity of the CPU chips as being the relevant feature of a microprocessor, then it is just an accident of history that the first things we called microprocessors were single-chip. Suddenly I like that definition a whole lot more than the one I grew up with. I generally dislike it when people try to redefine words for their own (usually political) purposes. But in this case, it seems we don't have a widely agreed-upon definition to begin with, so I don't feel too bad in changing sides. ] If somebody made a two-chip CPU that had all of the other characteristics ] of the Intel 4004, you'd have trouble calling it a microprocessor, because ] it would be missing something. Maybe you'd call it a two-chip ] microprocessor. If it were special purpose instead of general purpose, ] maybe you'd call it a special purpose microprocessor. But once you make ] something different enough from the 4004 that you need to add a bunch of ] qualifiers, you might as well just call it a CPU or come up with a new ] name. Actually, until ten minutes ago, I would have had trouble calling the two-chip thing a microprocessor because it broke the definition I learned as a kid: single-chip. But even the characteristic of being similar to a 4004 is relevant to the extent that you are careful in choosing which way it has to be similar. The first 4004's were probably in ceramic; should that be part of the definition? Probably not. Why did we care about the 4004? Is being implemented on a single chip really the important bit? Or was it cost, ease of use, small size, ...? A two-chip implementation could very well have been important to us for exactly the same reasons that the 4004 was. I can see that explaining why computers suddenly became cheap and ubiquitous could be useful. But the "single-chip" definition of a microprocessor is only circumstantially related to that. If the 8080 and its cousins had actually been multi-chip implementations, things would have progressed exactly the same way. (And pigs with wings *would* be eagles, dammit! :-) ) So, when is it useful to distinguish single-chip from, say, dual-chip? What kind of practical decision would someone make based on that? ] -- Doug Cheers, Bill. BTW, was the 4004 really the first in the Intel series of 4004, 4040, 8008, and 8080? I seem to remember that something in this sequence actually happened in non-ascending order, like maybe the 8008 preceded the 4004, or the 4040 came out last, or ...? It could make sense; you could imagine scaling back an existing design to penetrate some niche market with a cheaper part.

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Help: Identify my board

by oajones＠bright.net

Can someone help identify this board? It has a 8085AH CPU in the A9 socket. On the right the board says "Intel (C) 1977 MADE IN USA." On the back of the circuit board is etched "PWB1001480-03 REV H." If you want to see what the board looks like click on my link below. http://www.bright.net/~oajones/myboard.jpg --Alan -- Computing since: 1982, VIC-20, CoCo, PC, CP/M Military Computers: COMTRAN 10, Nida 250 Amateur Radio since: 1971, WN8JEF, KA6EXR, N8BGR, AA4ZI BASIC, dBASE, Assembly, C++ mailto: oajones(a)bright.net

27 years, 8 months

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Top 10 Holy Grails of Classic Microcomputer Collecting

by kaikal＠MICROSOFT.com

Just for the hell of it, I thought I'd make a list of the Top 10 Holy Grails of classic microcomputer computer collecting. This is the "Rembrandt in the Attic" sort of stuff. These are roughly in my opinionated order, but somewhat randomly ordered: 1. The Altair prototype that was to be the cover photo for Popular Electronics but was lost in shipment 2. Xerox Alto 3. Mark 8 4. Scelbi 8H 5. Kenbak-1 6. Micral 8008 7. Apple I 8. An unassembled Altair 8800 Kit 9. Busicom Japan Intel 4004-based Calculator 10. IBM 5100 Kai

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Corrections to trivia

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< We have no way of knowing what *would* have happened if Intel hadn't < invented the 4004 or if MITS hadn't invented the Altair, all we know is < what *did* happen. Therin lies the point we do not all know what did happen. There were many things that did happen that were unsuccessful or poorly marketed. < I've never read Intel's versions of the events -- all I have to go on ar < artifacts. I'm not aware of any computer artifacts that support the ide < that somebody else enabled cheap computers to be made before Intel did. By time PCs roamed the earth most of the players had died or were crushed. Intel was a very aggressive vendor even then. They played the you want 8205... then you buy OUR 8080 and 8224 and 8228 or forget it. That was when AMD and NATIONAL Semi and half a dosen other were also making 8080s. If anything it was intels competitors that drive the proce of the chips down so inexpensive computers could be made. Then ther ewas the manufaturers wars pushing the end price down. < etc. That would seem to completely destroy the relevance of the F14 < computer as far as microcomputers are concerned, but it does nothing to < deminish the importance of the 4004. True intel did that with the 8008, then the 8080 then the 8085 and the 8088 and the 80286... < At no point did I mention Intel's long-term success. This discussion al < along has been about the Big Bang that led eventually to cheap computer As a point the big bang nearly killed intel. In the early 80s intel was one of theose giving 10% across the board pay cuts (even managers!) due to the market pressure on them. < computer was the Big Bang. Did I misunderstand you? I'm saying that th It was White Sands, intel was the public display. Allison

27 years, 8 months

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New Finds

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< Today I walked into a thrift store and found a stack of Popular Science < Popular Mechanics, and others going back to 1974. I got real excited It was the Popular Electronics January 1975 issue. I still have the copy that arrived at home in the tradition of PE at the time in early December. Allison

27 years, 8 months

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Corrections to trivia

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< Do I have to invoke the magic words "PDP-8" here? :-). Cheap enough < that thousands made their way into high schools in the early 70's, and < cheap enough that several did buy them for use at home. < < You don't need to be a "micro" to be affordable! Thank you Tim! In 1972 I was offered a PDP-8I used (clean) for $2000 I should have save for I'd just bought a new truck ($2100)... Allison

27 years, 8 months

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Apple power supply problems

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< right int he middle of the circuit board. it's still hot several minute < later! thankfully the computer itself is ok although it did reset my mai < computer on the same electrical outlet. provided i didnt destroy the who < bloody thing, what could be causing the problem? Shorted chopper transistor on the high voltage side and/or shorted shorted rectifiers. Allison

27 years, 8 months

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Eventual fate of our machines

by jsalzman＠hersheys.com

> >Kind of a life time rental agreement ? >Sounds interesting. This might be a good idea. >But won't the mony winn over the idea ? There's always that issue. I find it analogous to retirement homes in this area. People 'buy' a retirment home, townhouse, apartment, etc. for a fixed price and then live there. When they die, it belongs to the retirement home to sell again. The cycle continues. If you've seen some of the homes around here, you know they've been around for a while. Part of the charge funds maintenance fees and lawn care (the latter not being important for computers). The continuous re-renting of the property helps keep the available funds around to maintain everything. I'm not saying that the 'organization' fund for maintenance to whoever rented the computer, but the concept is similar. The end goal in this case is to do what's possible to keep it around for the next person. >But, if we could keep it to a small and more individual to >individual base, I'm in. Do I hear charters? > >> Some of the funding can also be used to provide insurance coverage to >> members by people who know the value of what's being insured. > >Thats a very dangerous terrain. I do agree with you. Here, in the state of Pennsylvania, insurance of any type is heavily regulated. It may not be as bad for other states or countries. > >

27 years, 8 months

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RT-11 on 8" media

by jpl15＠netcom.com

Some Newby-ish questions, if it so please The List: In a box of Stuff, I got 2 cartons of BASF 8".... one of which is marked "RT-11 V3 System DO NOT OVERWRITE!!!". And inside are 7 floppies, each with a DIR printout stuck in the envelope, (and the DIRs look like typical RT-11 files). These disks are numbered 21 - 26 and 30. The other box has no IDs of any kind, save three diskettes are labled 47, 49, and 50. The other 7 are unadorned, but they appear to have been spun... there are faint burnish markings on the surfaces. As an added, extra bonus, there is a listing of an 18-line Basic program which "Determines if One Number is a Factor of Another".... surely an unexpected blessing. All this absurd and useless detail aside... I am wondering if there is a 'Minimum Set' of files, which placed on a floppy(ies) would boot a PDP11... and, I am assuming, it would require Sysgenning? Is there available on the Web this info? Also, I have an 11/73 with RT-11SJ V5.0.... it has an 8" drive. What would I have to do to make a bootable minimal floppy on this machine? In other words how few files can one get away with to wake up a PDP11 with only an RX02 clone as it's mass storage? Bowing before the Silicon Slippers of the Knowledgeable Ones, Cheers John PS: Learning all the time..... TIA!

27 years, 8 months

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Eventual fate of our machines

by jsalzman＠hersheys.com

> >there is no one to carry on the tradition. I shudder to think about the >eventual fate of all of our collections. Do we need a national repository >for all of this stuff? How about a collector's organization which can act as a willed beneficiary for collectors. A board of directors can act in the best interest of the collection should a member (or non-member?) die and bequeath(sp?) his/her computer collection to the organization. Some items can be kept for a museum piece while others can bid for a chance to purchase the remaining items. This could fund the organization. The organization can also conduct interviews with bidders to determine if they are serving the best interest of the computer collection if they get the desired item. A clause can be put in to require the item to be retired to the organization upon their death. Some of the funding can also be used to provide insurance coverage to members by people who know the value of what's being insured. Just my thought, and is well open to discussion. Jeff Salzman >

27 years, 8 months

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kits, definitions, prices...

by jeff.kaneko＠juno.com

Say WHAT?!?!! This requires an explaination . . . . On Wed, 7 Oct 1998 15:17:33 -0700 Kai Kaltenbach <kaikal(a)microsoft.com> writes: >Little-known fact: The Apple 1 wasn't a 6502 machine... it was a 6502 >OR >6800 machine. ^^^^^ > >Kai > >-----Original Message----- >From: Cameron Kaiser [mailto:ckaiser@oa.ptloma.edu] >Sent: Wednesday, October 07, 1998 3:08 PM >To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers >Subject: Re: kits, definitions, prices... > > >:: Should I hack my Apple-1 to sub in a 99 GHz Pentium for the >6502? > >Wash your mouth out with soap! (How about a 65816? :-) > >-- >-------------------------- personal page: >http://calvin.ptloma.edu/~spectre/ >-- >Cameron Kaiser Information Technology Services Database >Programmer >Point Loma Nazarene University Fax: +1 619 >849 >2581 >ckaiser(a)ptloma.edu Phone: +1 619 >849 >2539 >-- Never blame on malice what can be blamed on abject idiocy. >----------------- > ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

27 years, 8 months

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Corrections to trivia

by CLASSICCMP＠trailing-edge.com

>I've never read Intel's versions of the events -- all I have to go on are >artifacts. I'm not aware of any computer artifacts that support the idea >that somebody else enabled cheap computers to be made before Intel did. Do I have to invoke the magic words "PDP-8" here? :-). Cheap enough that thousands made their way into high schools in the early 70's, and cheap enough that several did buy them for use at home. You don't need to be a "micro" to be affordable! -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology Voice: 301-767-5917 7328 Bradley Blvd Fax: 301-767-5927 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817

27 years, 8 months

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The PDP lives! To the best of my (limited) knowledge, anyway...

by mbg＠world.std.com

>RT-11 is available on the net at... > >ftp://gatekeeper.dec.com/pub/digital/sim/software/rtv53swre.tar.Z Correction - it is available ONLY FOR USE WITH THE SUPNIK PDP-11 EMULATOR. The hobbyist license which comes with it does NOT permit use on real hardware. >If you find it on media you are permitted to use it as a hobbiest. Again, ONLY with the SUPNIK emulator. It may not even be used legally with any other emulator. Having been a part of making it available on the net, I ask that people not violate the terms of the license... Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+

27 years, 8 months

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kits, definitions, prices...

by kaikal＠MICROSOFT.com

Little-known fact: The Apple 1 wasn't a 6502 machine... it was a 6502 OR 6800 machine. Kai -----Original Message----- From: Cameron Kaiser [mailto:ckaiser@oa.ptloma.edu] Sent: Wednesday, October 07, 1998 3:08 PM To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Subject: Re: kits, definitions, prices... :: Should I hack my Apple-1 to sub in a 99 GHz Pentium for the 6502? Wash your mouth out with soap! (How about a 65816? :-) -- -------------------------- personal page: http://calvin.ptloma.edu/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser Information Technology Services Database Programmer Point Loma Nazarene University Fax: +1 619 849 2581 ckaiser(a)ptloma.edu Phone: +1 619 849 2539 -- Never blame on malice what can be blamed on abject idiocy. -----------------

27 years, 8 months

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Somebody has a C65 on eBay

by tomowad＠earthlink.net

>There's some evidence to suggest that the Lisa is the Apple VI, which raises >the question of what happened to IV and V. I think it would be more accurate to say that Apple considered naming the Lisa the Apple IV. "Lisa" was originally just a code name, after all. Tom Owad -- Sysop of Caesarville Online Client software at: <http://home.earthlink.net/~tomowad/>

27 years, 8 months

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kits, definitions, prices...

by KFergason＠aol.com

In a message dated 10/7/98 4:41:21 PM Pacific Daylight Time, allisonp(a)world.std.com writes: > Not a big secret. It's a fact and there is a jumper on the board for it. > > REASON: > At one point MOS Tech was going to make a 6500 that was pin interchangable > with the 6800 but moto took them to court. the expectation was they would > make one board that could be either 6800 or 6500. > I have read that they did make it, the 6501. And, moto took them to court, etc. Kelly

27 years, 8 months

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Atari returns from the grave

by rax＠warbaby.com

http://www.milan-computer.de/html_gb/produkt.html -- Warbaby The WebSite. The Domain. The Empire. http://www.warbaby.com The MonkeyPool WebSite Content Development http://www.monkeypool.com Once you get the nose on, the rest is just makeup.

27 years, 8 months

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Apple 1 6800/6502 (RE: kits, definitions, prices...)

by kaikal＠MICROSOFT.com

It's pretty clear if you look at the board. Note 7 in the Processor Section Schematic elaborates thus: "7. Unit, as supplied, includes a 6502 microprocessor, and solder jumpers at both points marked '6502', and has omitted all components shown within the dotted box. If a 6800 is substituted for the 6502 it is necessary to install all components shown, and to break both solder bridges labeled '6502'." The "dotted box" refers to a normally unpopulated area of the board. The components shown within the "dotted box" are just 4 transistors and a handful of resistors and caps. Remember that the 6502 was largely an electrical clone of the 6800 with a different instruction set. Obviously the supplied monitor ROMs wouldn't have run on the 6800, but the monitor source is supplied and could be translated. Kai -----Original Message----- From: Doug Yowza [mailto:yowza@yowza.com] Sent: Wednesday, October 07, 1998 3:27 PM To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Subject: RE: kits, definitions, prices... On Wed, 7 Oct 1998, Kai Kaltenbach wrote: > Little-known fact: The Apple 1 wasn't a 6502 machine... it was a 6502 OR > 6800 machine. That is *very* little-known! Either somebody got sold a 6800 machine with an Apple 1 label on it or there needs to be some documentation for this claim! References? -- Doug

27 years, 8 months

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Gemini Galaxy 2 - It works

by ard＠p850ug1.demon.co.uk

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27 years, 8 months

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The PDP lives! To the best of my (limited) knowledge, anyway...

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< Is there a user group or something akin that I could contact to purchas < RT-11 on 8" floppy? When I flip the "boot" switch, it accesses drive "0 < so I assume it's looking for the OS. The @ is the ODT prompt. If you type a / that prints the contents of the current address and if you enter a number it will replace it. @$n (n=0 to 7) prints a regiters contents and can alter it. @1773000G Start executing at 773000 (octal!) That address is commonly the address of rom bootstraps. RT-11 is available on the net at... ftp://gatekeeper.dec.com/pub/digital/sim/software/rtv53swre.tar.Z That is a unix gziped tar file of RT-11 V5.3. If you find it on media you are permitted to use it as a hobbiest. Allison

27 years, 8 months

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Latest finds

by wanderer＠bos.nl

Well, let's see. I got the kit for 50 guilders ($25), which is not a bad price if you ask me for such a near complete kit. As for the moment, I don't have a picture yet, but I could scan a picture from one of the manuals. Unfortunately it's not fore sale, but if someone want's to exchange it for a KIM-1, I could be tempted, or somewone would like to pay me mega $$$$ (maybe someone at eBay :-) ) Some more info about the board, it's labelled PWB 10010505 Rev C and has a copyright of 1976. The manuals have various dates, they are : Product Description book, dated January 1979, Assambly Language Reference Card, dated March 1979, MCS-80/85 Family User's Manual, dated October 1979, 8080/8085 Assembly Language Programming Manual dated 1977,1978, 197 SDK-85 System Design Kit User's Manual, dated 1978 Regards, Ed BTW, the guy who sold this also had 3 handheld terminals sets which doe work on CP/M. He also had 3 matching printers, 2 software development kits for the PC (has a Z80 processor on an ISA board), and 1 docking station. Apparently these sets were used f.e. as barcode readers, as the terminal could be equipped with a optical pen. -- The Wanderer | Geloof nooit een politicus! wanderer(a)bos.nl | Europarlementariers: http://www.bos.nl/homes/wanderer | zakkenvullers en dumpplaats voor Unix Lives! windows95 is rommel! | mislukte politici. '96 GSXR 1100R | See http://www.bos.nl/homes/wanderer/gates.html for a funny pic. of Gates!

27 years, 8 months

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Eventual fate of our machines

by franke＠sbs.de

> Phase one: Active procurement (Present state) > My collection currently exists in a very unorganized state in my > basement. I have no real inventory list. :) > Phase two: Active display > Fully inventoried with a list of what works and what doesn't. > We've discussed the possiblity of setting up some sort of cybercafe to > help pay for maintaining the collection. Good idea - I have to mark your place for my next visit. Surfing on an Altair ... > Phase three: Finding the collection a new home (After I'm gone) > This is the tough one. In the wrong hands the collection might > just go to a landfill and that would be a real shame. I have no kids so > there is no one to carry on the tradition. I shudder to think about the > eventual fate of all of our collections. Do we need a national repository > for all of this stuff? National Repository ? Like a landfill at Mt. Rushmore ? Serious: I think it's a) mor than just a 'national' issue, and b) giving your legacy to any kind of 'big' museum / collection wouldn't be better than auctioning every single piece for maximum profit (for the heir). Let me explane the last one. At first, a 'big' collection, like a museum (and I just assume there will be in the future some computer museums at least the size of car collections) will have already more than 95% of your (or mine) collection, counting the CPU's, so they only need 5% for display. The rest will be surplus or spare parts in best case. Second, they will have, for shure, already more computers and accessories than they are able to display. So yours might never be seen again autside the warehouse. Third, (and most important in my eyes) 99% of all of the hard to get software and documentation will never go on display And last but not least, even if one of your computers get on display, they might refurbisch in a way you would never liked - removing stickers, that you saved as a sign of Zeitgeist of this machine, or even canibalise it for display. For example: The Deutsches Museum in Munich has a quite astonishing collection of old machinery on display, but compared to what they have in storeage, it's like showing a Apple Mac Plus as a representiv for everything Apple produced - from Apple 1 until Newton ... - Even for old Computers: they have a quite impressive collection of uP based Computers, but just an PET and an IBM-PC on display (within more than 5000 sq ft computer display). (To be honest, every of the things above can happen also with smaler collectors, but I think they are more likely for big collections/mueseum.) Personal I have not decided what to do with my collection (althrugh I alredy have a last will where several persons are picked to get some parts or to be responsible for the distribution). Possible ways where I feel comfortable are: a) Let 'em all on auction after my death for maximum money. b) Pick people for every parst to inherit to. c) sell them among fellow collectors for their real value. That means for example 100 USD for a C65 or a chicklet PET. d) If I ever will archive my own museum, building a base, where inheritance is no question, because it exists on it's own behalf. The idea behind b) and c) is just to give them to people who don't want them pure for the market (ePay) value, but for the thing itself. c) has an advantage, because I belive buying is better than getting a gift. In fact, if I haggle for an Apple 1 at 100 USD it's more fun than getting the computer for free (dont get me wrong - I wouldn't deny any free computer :). Gruss H. -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK

27 years, 8 months

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Corrections to trivia

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< What about... < ...the KIM-1? (1976, 6502) < ...the JOLT? (1975, 6502) < ...the COSMAC ELF? (1975) < ...the SWTPc 6800? (1975, 6800) The cosmac elf was the august 1976 cover of Popular Electronics. The key here was the 8080 predates the Altair by over a year but within 1 year of the 8080 introduction there would be a slew of new CPUs many lower cost. The 6502 was the knee breaker! After that there would be the COSMAC-1802, SC/MP, and a truckload of others. < > this fact if, say, TI engineers had actually produced a microprocesso < > before Intel. The important "firsts" in documenting the personal comp < > revolution are commercialization, availability, and price. < < That certainly doesn't tell the whole story. The only thing this type o < historical "documentation" serves is a company's marketing efforts. They did in essence, TI brought us the calculator chip before intel with the 4004. The difference that is significant is the same number of gates were applied as a generalized programable system... That was important. The however is that TI1000 was the same time nearly. < imposed on the product. The CADC shows that much more was possible tha < was previously believed for that early era in microprocessor history. < That's significant, and relevant. The CADC also attacked the specialized vs programmable before intel. < I don't think chapters need to be re-written either. A whole NEW chapte < needs to be added.

27 years, 8 months

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Corrections to trivia

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< Yes, I would like to find a "Intellec 8", I think the same as a MCS-8, t < (Intel seems to use the term "MCS-8" very loosely in the literature I ha < There was also a single board computer, Sim8-01 with 2k bytes EPROM and < byte ram. It could be used with a MP7 EPROM (1702A) programmer. MCS-8 is the SIM8-01, I still have the manual for it. Allison

27 years, 8 months

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Top 10 sins of a computer scrapper

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< Where were you guys 4 years ago? I'm really sorry for my part.It is real < hard to figure out what is collectable, particularly if you don't recogn Here in MA doing what I do now. I collect stuff I've used to would like to have but couldn't afford back then. Much of it is pseudo collectable, IE: I collect it but that does not assume it has any value other than I'd like to set it up and actually run it. Allison

27 years, 8 months

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Corrections to trivia

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< major an impact the military has played on computers. The ENIAC, < F14CADC, DEC Alpha, and other stuff I'm sure can all be attributed < to the pentagon. While the military was a prime consumer of advaced technoology and even fostered some, how the hell did DEC Alpha get in there? Alpha was developed by DEC as an answer to what to do to create the next generation of better than VAX machines (they were betting the farm on it too!). It was the exact thing DEC was doing when they developed the VAX to better the PDP-11. < And _that_ is significant because instead of saying that the computer < is a triumph of enterpreneurs and daring capitalists, we can _also_ < say that it is a triumph of America's great war machine. political crock unfortunatly. Most of the developments were actually driven trying to be better than that competition. At that time you had AMD, AMI, Intel Fairchild, RCA, Signetics, TI, motorola, MOS technology, SMC and that's only the few. That commercial space battle was far higher pitched and far longer lasting than any war. Also if anything any of the guys here that were in the military will tell you while the F14 CADC or other hardware were at one time advaced they also tended to stay in service for many years after the commercial space caught up and passed it! Allison

27 years, 8 months

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Unknown Apple II Card / TRS-80 Model II

by pb0aia＠iaehv.nl

You can add these TRS-80 Model II links to your page: http://www.iae.nl/users/pb0aia/cm/modelii.html http://www.kjsl.com/trs80/trsother.html http://www.ncsc.dni.us/fun/user/tcc/cmuseum/trs80_m2.htm http://www.sincom.com/~jandtbos/model2.html I'm not sure about the last one, it doesn't seem to work anymore. Kees -- Kees Stravers - Geldrop, The Netherlands - pb0aia at amsat dot org Sysadmin and DEC PDP/VAX preservationist - http://vaxarchive.ml.org Computer Home page - http://www.iae.nl/users/pb0aia/cm/ Net-Tamer V 1.08.1 - Registered

27 years, 8 months

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Unknown Apple II Card

by dlw＠trailingedge.com

I have an unknown interface card for the Apple ][. At least I think it is for a II. It has a 50 pin connector down the front of the card. "REV E" and "SCI Typ. 1A" dated "Jan 24 '85" printed on the card. An EPROM with 8443EPP AM2732ADC Copyright 1983 AMD printed on it. That's all I can find printed on the card. Any ideas? For those who can handle images, there are a couple at: http://www.trailingedge.com/~dlw/comp/images/acard1.jpg http://www.trailingedge.com/~dlw/comp/images/acard2.jpg Not the best pictures but I have the camera here right now and may take some closeups of the board and chips. Thanks. ----- David Williams - Computer Packrat dlw(a)trailingedge.com http://www.trailingedge.com

27 years, 8 months

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Eventual fate of our machines

by franke＠sbs.de

> The Radio History Society http://www.radiohistory.org/ is an IRS > 501(c)(3) organization which can provide donors with a tax deduction. > A single friend of mine has decided that he will donate much of his > collection to RHS when he passes on as nobody in his family is > interested in old radio. > Anyway, I'd imagine CHAC and other organizations can offer help in > directing people to good homes for their gear. I don't think it's just about the givin'way thing. There are dozens of organisations out there were a computer collection wouldn't be rejected, it's about doing something where one could have at least a strong belive that they will act realy in favour for the collection items, and see them at leas a bit the way we see our'babys' - as something special. Gruss H. -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK

27 years, 8 months

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Eventual fate of our machines

by franke＠sbs.de

>>there is no one to carry on the tradition. I shudder to think about the >>eventual fate of all of our collections. Do we need a national repository >>for all of this stuff? > How about a collector's organization which can act as a willed > beneficiary for collectors. A board of directors can act in the best > interest of the collection should a member (or non-member?) die and > bequeath(sp?) his/her computer collection to the organization. Some > items can be kept for a museum piece while others can bid for a chance > to purchase the remaining items. This could fund the organization. The > organization can also conduct interviews with bidders to determine if > they are serving the best interest of the computer collection if they > get the desired item. A clause can be put in to require the item to be > retired to the organization upon their death. Kind of a life time rental agreement ? Sounds interesting. This might be a good idea. But won't the mony winn over the idea ? Altrough I belive, that certain organisations, like government, unions, etc. are neccersary, I dislike most organisations, since every one of them tends soon to put the organisation itself on top of the mission. The organisation becomes the mission instead of serving it. This is especialy true for (so called) privat (NGO) organisations without true public control. The process is called professionalisation. Enthusiasm fades, and business is the rule. Maybe I'm a bit negative, but I have no trust in any fixed long time perspective organisation supposed to do 'fun' (non comercila, ethusiast) things (So, Sam, if there is a planned membership for VCF, I'm out :). But, if we could keep it to a small and more individual to individual base, I'm in. > Some of the funding can also be used to provide insurance coverage to > members by people who know the value of what's being insured. Thats a very dangerous terrain. Gruss H. -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK

27 years, 8 months

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Corrections to trivia

by CLASSICCMP＠trailing-edge.com

>For example why is it that prople are hunting for MARK-8 and Kenbec's >when the most likely find (greatest quantity) for 8008 machines is a >MCS-8 from intel?!?! I disagree - an even *more* likely find is a 11/34a with an 8008 running the front panel! Tim.

27 years, 8 months

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Kaypro 10 HD woes

by jpl15＠netcom.com

One of my Kaypro 10s has a bad case of the dreaded 'Spindle Stiction', ie. it won't spin up on it's own. I have learned to smack it in just the right place, to produce a radial moment normal to the plane of rotation, and then it spins up and boots. The first time I did this, I backed up the drive to floppies, so if the drive dies for good, no big deal. Allison, I believe, was the person who discussed this fairly common problem, some months ago. And since starting a drive with the handle of a big screwdriver can only be termed *abuse*, it's amazing that the poor thing works at all. But try this, in case there is something wonderful living on the HD, before you format it. (If in fact the no-boot is caused by stiction....) Cheers John

27 years, 8 months

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Formatting a Kaypro 10 Hard Drive

by kaikal＠MICROSOFT.com

You need the Kaypro 10 CP/M 2.2G Reload Disk Set (14 disks), which you can get from Don Maslin, keeper of the CP/M disk archives (donm(a)cts.com), for $3/first disk and $1/additional. The man's a saint. The 10 will work with up to 8 heads and, I believe, 306 cylinders. A Kaypro 10 manual would be helpful too, I got mine from my local Kaypro users group (yes, they still exist, all four guys of them). Some other stuff is available from The Computer Journal (http://www.psyber.com/~tcj/kaypro.html) Kai -----Original Message----- From: Phil Clayton [mailto:handyman@sprintmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, October 07, 1998 9:12 AM To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Subject: Formatting a Kaypro 10 Hard Drive Just purchased a kaypro 10 Computer. The Hard Drive is Dead.. As I understand it has an MFM type drive.. I have several old drives (ST 225) from old XT's that I could replace the bad one with.. (If possible).. My knowledge is limited on CP/M.. Even more limited with on CP/M on Hard Drives.. Being a computer tech I formatted hundreds of old MFM type drives on XT's but this thing is very different.. I don't know where to start on this project. Can anyone help? Thanks.. Phil....

27 years, 8 months

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Vaporware (and not) from '83 CES

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 05:07 PM 10/6/98 -0700, you wrote: >Vaporware? Please respond if you KNOW any of these exist for SURE. > >- STM Pied Piper (CP/M portable, 64K, $1295) I seem to remember this actually coming out, but I can't verify it. >- TI CC-40 (Compact Computer 40, laptop like Epson HX-20, 4 AA cells, 31 >character LCD display, $249) Got one. One just sold on Ebay for something like $150 or so. --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/

27 years, 8 months

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Unassembled Altair kits

by sethm＠loomcom.com

A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 638 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19981006/cfe6bb5d/at…

27 years, 8 months

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Eventual fate of our machines

by cmcmanis＠freegate.com

At 08:10 AM 10/7/98 -0700, you wrote: >Phase three: Finding the collection a new home (After I'm gone) > This is the tough one. In the wrong hands the collection might >just go to a landfill and that would be a real shame. I have no kids so >there is no one to carry on the tradition. This is what wills are for, insuring that your stuff is taken care of the way you want it to be taken care of. One way to do this in the US is with a 'living trust.' You create a trust and transfer title of your collection to it, in the trust you and your wife are trustees. Then you specify a successor trustee (say some local technology museum) and then when you are gone the control of the assets moves (without probate!) to the sucessor trustee. In the trust you can limit what the trustee can do with the trust assets, including disposing in landfills. --Chuck

27 years, 8 months

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Corrections to trivia

by ddameron＠earthlink.net

Hi All, At 07:52 AM 10/6/98 -0400, Allison wrote: >No Intel never made a cheap computer. They made CPUs, Memory and support >chips. The MCS. MDS, intellect even the SDKs were anything but cheap. > >< enabled them to make it cheap, and they commercialized it. The level o >< integration is the salient feature of the chip, but not the main featur >< of the important event. > >It's everything as the 8008 hit the level of integration needed to produce >a viable general purpose commercial cpu. > >For example why is it that prople are hunting for MARK-8 and Kenbec's >when the most likely find (greatest quantity) for 8008 machines is a >MCS-8 from intel?!?! > Yes, I would like to find a "Intellec 8", I think the same as a MCS-8, too. (Intel seems to use the term "MCS-8" very loosely in the literature I have.) There was also a single board computer, Sim8-01 with 2k bytes EPROM and 1k byte ram. It could be used with a MP7 EPROM (1702A) programmer. Another company was Martin research which made "Mike" series computers. Haven't found any of these either, but did find by inter-library loan their "Microcomputer Design" book, which has lots of 8008 info! It has a schematic of their "Mike 4" system, an 8008 based unit with about 20 ic's. It also included other minimal 8008 systems such as a 9 chip version. I have found a source for 8008 chips, so maybe a homebrew 8008 system is more likely as a future project. -Dave

27 years, 8 months

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Top 10 Holy Grails of Classic Microcomputer Collecting

by kaikal＠MICROSOFT.com

That's good, the Sphere works better unassembled :) Kai -----Original Message----- From: William Donzelli [mailto:william@ans.net] My unbuilt Sphere-1 is getting donated to RCS/RI, with the understanding that the boards will never see an iron.

27 years, 8 months

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Eventual fate of our machines

by Marty＠itgonline.com

I belong to the Mid-Atlantic Antique Radio Club which has established the Radio History Society, a non-profit musuem, which is located at George Washington University in Washington, D.C. The Radio History Society http://www.radiohistory.org/ is an IRS 501(c)(3) organization which can provide donors with a tax deduction. A single friend of mine has decided that he will donate much of his collection to RHS when he passes on as nobody in his family is interested in old radio. Anyway, I'd imagine CHAC and other organizations can offer help in directing people to good homes for their gear. Marty ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Eventual fate of our machines Author: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu at internet Date: 10/7/98 11:09 AM Has there been any discussion about the eventual fate of our collections after we are gone? My wife and I have discussed this at some length. I see three phases to my collection. Phase one: Active procurement (Present state) My collection currently exists in a very unorganized state in my basement. I have no real inventory list. Phase two: Active display Fully inventoried with a list of what works and what doesn't. We've discussed the possiblity of setting up some sort of cybercafe to help pay for maintaining the collection. Phase three: Finding the collection a new home (After I'm gone) This is the tough one. In the wrong hands the collection might just go to a landfill and that would be a real shame. I have no kids so there is no one to carry on the tradition. I shudder to think about the eventual fate of all of our collections. Do we need a national repository for all of this stuff? Thoughts to ponder, George ========================================================= George L. Rachor george(a)racsys.rt.rain.com Beaverton, Oregon http://racsys.rt.rain.com ------ Message Header Follows ------ Received: from lists4.u.washington.edu by smtp.itgonline.com (PostalUnion/SMTP(tm) v2.1.9i(b5) for Windows NT(tm)) id AA-1998Oct07.110957.1767.68258; Wed, 07 Oct 1998 11:10:00 -0400 Received: from host (lists.u.washington.edu [140.142.56.13]) by lists4.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW98.06) with SMTP id IAA02277; Wed, 7 Oct 1998 08:07:26 -0700 Received: from mxu2.u.washington.edu (mxu2.u.washington.edu [140.142.32.9]) by lists.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW98.06) with ESMTP id IAA36360 for <classiccmp(a)lists.u.washington.edu>; Wed, 7 Oct 1998 08:07:17 -0700 Received: from racsys.rt.rain.com (racsys.rt.rain.com [199.2.210.34]) by mxu2.u.washington.edu (8.9.1+UW98.09/8.9.1+UW98.09) with ESMTP id IAA12 828 for <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>; Wed, 7 Oct 1998 08:07:15 -0700 Received: from localhost (localhost.rdrop.com [127.0.0.1]) by racsys.rt.rain.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id IAA24650 for <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>; Wed, 7 Oct 1998 08:10:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from george(a)racsys.rt.rain.com) Message-Id: <Pine.BSF.3.96.981007080210.24636A-100000(a)racsys.rt.rain.com> Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 08:10:53 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu Sender: CLASSICCMP-owner(a)u.washington.edu Precedence: bulk From: George Rachor <george(a)racsys.rt.rain.com> To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Subject: Eventual fate of our machines In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.3.96.981007072916.6874A-100000(a)shell1.ncal.verio.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.1 beta -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN

27 years, 8 months

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Top 10 Holy Grails of Classic Microcomputer Collecting

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< I meant, what was the proportion of each media at the time? No idea, seems biased to tape where I lived (LI NY). < Back in the days of my IMSAI experience, we had both an ASR-33 and < a cassette interface card. I don't remember the relative costs, < though. A cassette interface and deck were less costly than < an ASR-33, even at ham radio prices? 1975-76 time frame a used ASR33 was 500-900$US. The only machines at the ham meets were BAUDOT with 5level tape (and slower), they ran 75-150$US for a good working one. The ACR and a cassette tape were like 199$US and 35-45$US and faster as well. The third choice was an optical PTreader homebrew or commercial and they required a parallel port (cheap or trivial build) and inexpensive. Punching was again a cost thing and the old teletype BPRE punches were a good find at 100-200$. The point being things we take for granted as cheap or available now (or during the 80s) were less common and expensive in the mid to late 70s. Back in '76 showing up with some kind of terminal storage and more than 4-8k of ram and Basic generally put one in the fortunate class. My altair by late '75 had a home made ascii keyboard attached to a MITS-PIO and a modified (for 64char, 16line) SWTP CT1024 and a MITS 88-ACR and 12k of very flaky (solder plated edge connector rot) 88-S4k ram. I was able to run MITS 4kbasic, 8kbasic and Programming package II. That for its time was a power system. A bit more history... the other systems seen at the time that were pretty neat were the AMI EVK series (6800 SBC with decent amount of ram and rom) and the SWTP 6800. I havent seen either one in years. Both were pretty nice systems and less hardware intensive for the user. It seemed to me at the time that the 6800 camp were doing more software work and the 8080/s100 camp were into hardware. Anyone remember the Viatron systems that were turning up surplus around '75-78 time frame? It used tape and had a multichip LSI cpu. Allison

27 years, 8 months

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North Star Horizon Help

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< I would do that is I knew how. My memory board has several < jumpers and a couple of 8-switch dip switches but I have no doc on < the board so don't know memory settings. It is a 64K board so I < would assume I have a full address space. It is a N* RAM board < BTW. Can't help on that no docs for that board. < > Are they personalized for the machine and are all the port headers don < > the mother board set up correctly? Are the media the correct density < > the controller in use? < < Good question. These were sent to me by someone on the list. < The disks are 10 sectored (hard) double sided double density. The < controller is an N* Micro Disk Controller MDS-AD or that is all I can < see on it. The MDS-AD is a double density controller...ok there. Now the disks can be formatted as 48tpi or 96 tpi as the controller will support most 5.25 drives and if the drive is wrong... Personalizing, if they were set up for different IO they may not work on you NS*. < Any other tips to help out? Get docs! Your working blind without them. Allison

27 years, 8 months

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For sale stuff gone.

by william＠ans.net

OK, all of the stuff is now spoken for. I had to flip a few coins on some of it, as there was demand for some of the things. Sorry to anyone that lost the coin toss - I wish I had more. I am still looking for those IBM 5103 ribbons. William Donzelli william(a)ans.net

27 years, 8 months

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Top 10 Holy Grails of Classic Microcomputer Collecting

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< >How do you know it was paper tape... MITS basic that was "pirated" was < >often supplied on MITS ACR format audio tape. Still have one! < < At the time, were ASR-33s or cassettes the more common media for exchang Yes! ASR33 was expensive so many people used terminals or VDM1/parallel port keyboard or other combinations. Also ASR33 was 10 cps and ACR was 300baud... considering the 4k basic was a 8-9 minute load on the tty and about 3 on the ACR it should be obvious tape was a better way to go. Allison

27 years, 8 months

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Top 10 Holy Grails of Classic Microcomputer Collecting

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< 4) 'The original' paper tape of BASIC that was pirated from Bill Gates. How do you know it was paper tape... MITS basic that was "pirated" was often supplied on MITS ACR format audio tape. Still have one! Allison

27 years, 8 months

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1
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Tron, con't

by jfoust＠threedee.com

Regarding Tron and the recollection of friend-of-a-friend-who-worked there anecdotes, it reminds me of what's still happening in the computer graphics business today: everyone wants to take credit for what's on the screen. For example, the company I work for, Viewpoint DataLabs <http://www.viewpoint.com>, did the modelling for the recent movies Godzilla and ANTZ. What does this mean? It means our artists and 3D modelers created some of the data used by some other company's animators. Of course, our PR people trumpet the fact that Viewpoint made Godzilla. Well, we made the computer model by digitizing and finesse-ing some big rubber scale models made by someone else. And it goes on and on... some other company does the animating, someone else does the rendering, someone else does the compositing of real and fake images, someone else produced it, someone else funded this or that, someone else's 3D software was used to render it. At Siggraph, the industry's big trade show, the Kingston memory chip booth wasn't far from our booth, and they spent the week telling people to buy their memory because it was used in the machines that rendered scenes from Titanic. Back to Tron, though - three-four years ago, I remember meeting someone at a Siggraph who claimed to have worked on Tron, and who still had a copy of the original computer 3D models. I think he was a Caucasian wearing a robe and Sikh-like turban, but my memory may be faulty. If the truth is ever documented, I'm sure Tron was assembled using what equipment they could afford, and whatever could get the job done to the satisfaction of those paying the bills. - John

27 years, 8 months

4
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Unknown Apple II Card

by SUPRDAVE＠aol.com

I have the drive but no adaptor and when i took mine apart, it appears to be just a standard seagate mfm type drive, i think mine was an st-225. In a message dated 10/6/98 11:00:22 PM US Eastern Standard Time, fauradon(a)pclink.com writes: > It's a Host adapter for the SIDER hard drive. I believ it is SCSI type. I > have the manual and software if you ever get your hands on a sider Hard > drive. > Francois

27 years, 8 months

1
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Unknown Apple II Card

by fauradon＠pclink.com

You might be able to use any 10Mb (or so) external SCSI drive, I'm not sure about that though. I can get the connector pinout from mine, I haven't taken it apart yet so I don't know what Hard drive it takes. I could chek if nobody else has the answer ready. Experts please? Francois ------------------------------------------------------------- Visit the desperately in need of update Sanctuary at: http://www.pclink.com/fauradon -----Original Message----- From: David Williams <dlw(a)trailingedge.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Tuesday, October 06, 1998 11:24 PM Subject: Re: Unknown Apple II Card Ok, guess I'll have to look for a SIDER if that's what this is. Wish I'd know that when I was at the thrift where I picked it up. Unfortunately they recently threw everything out and became a $0.99 store. Shame because they still had a bunch of computer stuff I wanted to pick up. On 6 Oct 98, at 23:01, Francois wrote: > It's a Host adapter for the SIDER hard drive. I believ it is SCSI type. I > have the manual and software if you ever get your hands on a sider Hard > drive. Francois ----- David Williams - Computer Packrat dlw(a)trailingedge.com http://www.trailingedge.com

27 years, 8 months

1
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Vaporware (and not) from '83 CES

by franke＠sbs.de

> - Panasonic JR-200 (I think this may exist) Exists, I have one. > - Sanyo PCH20/PHC25 (Z80, 4K/16K, $99/$199) Exists (at least acording to some web sites. > - STM Pied Piper (CP/M portable, 64K, $1295) Never heared of. > - TI 99/2 (Supposedly $100, including 4.2K RAM) Never heared of. > - TI CC-40 (Compact Computer 40, laptop like Epson HX-20, 4 AA cells, 31 > character LCD display, $249) Exists - I miss it in my collection, but have seen several > - Unisonic Futura 8300 (Z80, 2K, Sinclair BASIC, $90) I have one, originaly boxed, althrough the box name is different (Your Computer). But almost any Exemplar I know has a different name. > - Video Technology VZ200 (Z80, 4K, MS BASIC, $99) I own two of them. They have been somewhat popular for a very short time. > By the way, has anyone actually seen an TI 99/4 (not 4a)? Shure, have one, barebone :( Gruss H. -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK

27 years, 8 months

1
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Top 10 sins of a computer scrapper

by Innfogra＠aol.com

Mea Culpa, Mea Culpa. I have sinned. I am retireing after 10 yrs of reselling computer, test and laboratory equipment. It was with interest and dismay that I read the top 10 Holy Grails and the following threads. After ballooning up to 16,000 sq. Ft of warehouse my partner insisted on scrapping large parts of the inventory. I was an accumulator, he was a scrapper. Needless to say we didn't last. Unfortunitely during that time we destroyed a lot of older computers including a Xerox Alto, I recognized it later on Revenge of the Nerds several Xerox Stars, I have some of the factory software left and maybe a mouse. a Magnolia Jaquard 100 Word Processor Used the 4004 computer chip Unknown SBC with an 8008 chip, I saved the chip (Std bus I believe) 3 IBM 5100s Scores of early Intel development systems including several Prompt-48 and MCS-8, we bought large lots from Intel Chameleon, I may have a manual or two. Litton 1251, Dual drum memory 400K, punch tape programmed PDP-8 Several Teraks Cincinatti Millichron 2000, I may have a programming card left I'm sure some of the big iron counts but I didn't know that field well. OK so this is more than 10. Where were you guys 4 years ago? I'm really sorry for my part.It is really hard to figure out what is collectable, particularly if you don't recognize it. I felt really bad when I finally recognized that that funny looking Drive with Xerox on it. Is there any interest in a DEC VAX 730, a General Automation Zebra 5500 (a Pick machine), DEC RA60 & RA81s, Tektronix 4113, NCR 1000. These need to go very soon. I enjoy the list. Thanks a lot. Paxton

27 years, 8 months

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Smoke Signal Broadcasting FS

by Innfogra＠aol.com

I have gotten lots of requests for details on this system. So I am posting a list of Chieftain systems and their board count that I have for sale. I am open to all offers, of course I am looking for the best one. Please reply to whoagiii(a)aol.com not to the list. I and the equipment are in Portland, Oregon. Smoke Signal Broadcasting System 1) Chieftain with a wood top. with 2 5 1/4" FHFD and the following boards LMB-1A 9 slot Backplane with 8 slots IO 6809 CPU OS9-SCB69 CIMIX 64K Static Ram M512X populated with 128K 2X M32-X 1 fully populated, the other 6 of 8 banks full M16-X Fully populated DCB 4A Drive Controller 4 2 port serial cards 2) Dual 8" DSDD with a wood top. Qumetrack 242s, attaches to #1 3) Chieftain with wood top with a 5 1/4" FH MFM Hard Drive with an attached Omti 20C Controller LMB-1A 9 slot Backplane with 8 slots IO CPU 50719, 68B09, OS9 SCB-69 M512X with 128K 2X CIMIX 64K Static Ram M16-X Fully populated M32-X Fully populated HDA-P/STA-A/HDA-S 4X 2 port Serial Cards It is interesting that the unit with the hard drive has no floppy. There is wiring that leads me to believe that one power switch turned on all three units at the same time. This is cut now. Paxton

27 years, 8 months

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Cromemco FS

by Innfogra＠aol.com

I have gotten lots of requests for details on the systems. So I am posting a list of Cromemco systems and boards that I have FS. I am open to all offers, of course I am looking for the best one. Please reply to whoagiii(a)aol.com not to the list. Portland, Oregon 97214 is home. Cromemco C 10 Computer with evternal 5 1/4" Floppy and Kbd I think this system was the controller for the Computer following System 2 in a dual height wood cabinet 30"X24"X36" with a 5 1/4 FHFD and the following cards : UUX 68020 CPU wi 68881 - 16 mhz 64FDC PRI STDC SFLSH 2 2048 MSU MCU SVID SDMB 1024 KTD SDCM SDMA The following software in 6 boxes of 5 1/4 disks containing Fortran IV, Ptr., Com, WP, Proprint, Procall, backup and Data and 68000 Fortran 77. Most of the disks are copies and not originals. The following Books a Binder of Program data, Cromix-plus users manual, Intro to C+, Baseline Graphics Inst., S Series Board Family Inst., SDD Camera Digitizer Board Manual, SDCM Color Monitor Board Manual, C-% Tech Reference, Cromix+ Programming, 68020 Cromix Admin. This system may not be complete. The boards appear to be out of order and the cables pulled off the cards. All of the cables may not be there. System 3 with 2 8" 1/2 Ht Floppys and a 5 1/4" hard drive (I would have to remove it to identify it) and the following cards 4X 256KZ Memory DPU 68000/8 Octart 16FDC WDI-II System 1, CS-1H, 6/13/83, 8 Slot MF with the following cards WDI-II 4X 256K Memory DPU Z80 & 68000/8 Octart 16FDC This Octart brake3out cable is homemade. It breaks out to 8 serial connectors mounted on a wood board. One of the cables has been damaged by it being ripped out of its plug. Extra Cards and Parts, please bid each. 3X 64KZ-I 2X 256KTP ZPU ZCPU SCC 64FDC TU-ART Quadart attached to a IOP Keyboard All are untested. After reading the threads about starting old systems I decided to sell them as-is untested. Thank you, Paxton

27 years, 8 months

1
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Top 10 Holy Grails of Classic Microcomputer Collecting

by scott＠isd.canberra.edu.au

At 19:38 6/10/98 -0700, Uncle Roger <sinasohn(a)ricochet.net> wrote: >At 08:24 PM 10/5/98 -0500, you wrote: >>I've always wanted to know which machines have only a single instance >>represented on this list. > >If I've got any that aren't duplicated, I'd guess them to be: > >NEC PC-8201 (not the PC-8201A) [Snip] What is the difference between the PC-8201 and the PC-8201A? I've got two PC-8201As, and what *seems* to be an PC-8201. It's a different, bronze, colour and has "NEC PC-8201" printed on the top left-hand corner. However, the silver sticker on the bottom of the computer says it is a PC-8201A. How can I tell for sure which I have? Regards, | Scott McLauchlan |E-Mail: scott(a)cts.canberra.edu.au | | Network Services Team |Phone : +61 2 6201 5544 (Ext.5544)| | Client Services Division |Post : University of Canberra, | | University of Canberra, AUSTRALIA | ACT, 2601, AUSTRALIA. |

27 years, 8 months

1
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Vaporware (and not) from '83 CES

by scott＠isd.canberra.edu.au

At 17:07 6/10/98 -0700, Kai Kaltenbach <kaikal(a)MICROSOFT.com> wrote: >New computers announced at the 1983 CES: > >Vaporware? Please respond if you KNOW any of these exist for SURE. > [Snip] >- Video Technology VZ200 (Z80, 4K, MS BASIC, $99) Not only do these exist, they were very popular in Australia in the mid-80s. They were marketed as the Dick Smith VZ-200 (Dick Smith is *the* major electronics retailer in Australia). Not only that, but there was also a VZ-300 (also known as the Video Technology Laser 310). For details, please see the following URLs: http://www.tardis.ed.ac.uk/~alexios/MACHINE-ROOM/Video,Technology_Laser_200. html http://www.tardis.ed.ac.uk/~alexios/MACHINE-ROOM/Dick,Smith,Electronics_VZ-2 00.html http://www.tardis.ed.ac.uk/~alexios/MACHINE-ROOM/Dick,Smith,Electronics_VZ-3 00.html http://www.tardis.ed.ac.uk/~alexios/MACHINE-ROOM/Video,Technology_Laser_310. html >By the way, has anyone actually seen an TI 99/4 (not 4a)? Yes, I've got one, Unfortunatly I have no power supply for it. Not only that, but I don't know what the power supply pinout is, nor where I could get a plug to suit the strange power supply socket (it's just like the one for the TI-99/4a, except one of the pins is bigger, so a TI-99/4a socket won't fit). For details on the TI-99/4, see http://99er.interspeed.net/994.html Regards, | Scott McLauchlan |E-Mail: scott(a)cts.canberra.edu.au | | Network Services Team |Phone : +61 2 6201 5544 (Ext.5544)| | Client Services Division |Post : University of Canberra, | | University of Canberra, AUSTRALIA | ACT, 2601, AUSTRALIA. |

27 years, 8 months

1
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Unknown Apple II Card

by fauradon＠pclink.com

It's a Host adapter for the SIDER hard drive. I believ it is SCSI type. I have the manual and software if you ever get your hands on a sider Hard drive. Francois ------------------------------------------------------------- Visit the desperately in need of update Sanctuary at: http://www.pclink.com/fauradon -----Original Message----- From: David Williams <dlw(a)trailingedge.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Tuesday, October 06, 1998 6:40 PM Subject: Unknown Apple II Card I have an unknown interface card for the Apple ][. At least I think it is for a II. It has a 50 pin connector down the front of the card. "REV E" and "SCI Typ. 1A" dated "Jan 24 '85" printed on the card. An EPROM with 8443EPP AM2732ADC Copyright 1983 AMD printed on it. That's all I can find printed on the card. Any ideas? For those who can handle images, there are a couple at: http://www.trailingedge.com/~dlw/comp/images/acard1.jpg http://www.trailingedge.com/~dlw/comp/images/acard2.jpg Not the best pictures but I have the camera here right now and may take some closeups of the board and chips. Thanks. ----- David Williams - Computer Packrat dlw(a)trailingedge.com http://www.trailingedge.com

27 years, 8 months

2
1
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North Star Horizon Help

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< Nope, no manuals except a copy of the N* DOS manual and a < monitor manual I believe. The system has a CPU board, disk < controller and a 64K RAM board so I'd guess N*DOS should load < fine. Opened it back up but don't see any DIPs near the back. < There are a couple of switchs outside the case which are labeled < for different baud rates for the video and printer port. The dips are on the mother board at the rear of the machine inside. They set up all of the IO charateristics including the sense of pins two and three in the serial connectors. I know of no Horizon that has switches for baud rates, that was a user mod. Allison

27 years, 8 months

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North Star Horizon Help

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< Ok, I have a few minutes now to play around with the N* Horizon < I've been fixing up. I've tried to power it up and it seems to hit the < disk drive and then nothing. I've plugged some spare terminals into < the port marked "Video Terminal Port" and played with baud rates < and other comm settings but get nothing on any of my terminals. There is no resident monitor or software other than a disk boot in a standard horizon. It will not say anything to a terminal untill it boots (assuming the booted code has something to say). If the boot fails likley the only signals you get is disk activity or the lack of it. Make sure you have at least 32k of ram starting at 0000 for CPM or 16k starting at 2000h for NSdos. < Also tried straight through and flipped comm cables. Can < someone give me some info on these and maybe walk me through < getting it set up and running so I can check and see if I've missed < something? Oh, I'm trying both N*DOS 5.2 and N* CP/M 2.2. Are they personalized for the machine and are all the port headers don on the mother board set up correctly? Are the media the correct density for the controller in use? I have and still run one. it occurs to me, if you have DOCS for it the setup and checkout procedure is in there. Allison

27 years, 8 months

2
1
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Corrections to trivia

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< >For example why is it that prople are hunting for MARK-8 and Kenbec's < >when the most likely find (greatest quantity) for 8008 machines is a < >MCS-8 from intel?!?! < < I disagree - an even *more* likely find is a 11/34a with an 8008 < running the front panel! Tim, That would be the case if I were looking for anything with an 8008. I was thinking more of a SBC or Evaluation board when I wrote that. Allison

27 years, 8 months

1
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North Star Horizon Help

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< Also, I seem to recall that North Star DOS was generated for a specific < size -- I believe it's top-resident. A DOS set up for 16K would work on < or 48K, but not vice versa. No it isn't. The controller fills the e800h to efffh space but NSdos is ORGed for 2000h and up. CPM is top resident and for the NS* that usually means a 58k maximum system unless there are some tricks appled. Allison

27 years, 8 months

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Top 10 Holy Grails of Classic Microcomputer Collecting

by jeff.kaneko＠juno.com

On Tue, 6 Oct 1998 21:12:07 -0500 (CDT) Doug Yowza <yowza(a)yowza.com> writes: >On 7 Oct 1998, Eric Smith wrote: > >> > The Heathkit people have pretty much set a precedence with unbuilt >kits - >> > if you build one, your name turns to mud. Then they kill you. >> >> Why would the Heathkit people care whether I assemble a Cromemco >Dazzler >> kit? :-) > >The Heathkit People can't see very well, they carry hot soldering >irons, >and they kill first and ask questions later. Certain areas near >Benton >Harbor are *very* dangerous at night. Be carefull out there. > >BTW, after getting my H-8 chassis last week, I found a complete H-8 >today. >Yet another data-point supporting Rax's "bait" theory. Damn. I wish I'd known this a zillion years ago when I could have grabbed an H-11 shell I saw in an L.A. scrapyard. I'd be using it for trolling right about now . . . Jeff ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

27 years, 8 months

1
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Partner 128

by oajones＠bright.net

I picked up a cartridge at a flea market. It says PARTNER 128, Cat. No. 7361, (C)1985 TIMEWORKS, INC. What is this thing? --Alan -- Computing since: 1982, VIC-20, CoCo, PC, CP/M Military Computers: COMTRAN 10, Nida 250 Amateur Radio since: 1971, WN8JEF, KA6EXR, N8BGR, AA4ZI BASIC, dBASE, Assembly, C++ mailto: oajones(a)bright.net

27 years, 8 months

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Top 10 Holy Grails of Classic Microcomputer Collecting

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< Tony Duell wrote: < > Agreed. If I ever get an unbuilt kit my first reaction is to build the < > thing. Examples of 1970's packaging are not very interesting to me :- < < I disagree. I have three unassembled Cromemco Dazzler kits. I plan to < assemble one. But if I only had one unassembled kit I think I'd leave i < that way. I personally do find the packaging to be of interest. I'm with tony as the early altairs were not packaged other than needed for shipping. Mine was very early and mostly poly bags of stuff like screws, nuts washers wires and non esd sensitive parts, MOS parts in black foam and sockets in pink foam. The PC card were between sheets of cardboard and it was all in a box with a xeroxed 4th generation manual with atleast two erata sheets for each board. Not much to look at. Some of the later 8800a and the 8800b machine had some nice bent corrigated and all. Allison

27 years, 8 months

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Rookie PDP help needed again...

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< The only thing on the board is what's on the handle; "M8186". There is < circular sticker on the underside of one handle that says "mpg jun/81" < it. There are four 40-pin sockets (individual pin sockets on the board) < with the following configuration: < < 1) AMI 303D & AMI 302F on 8048 DEC < 2) AMI 303D & AMI 303D on 8117 DEC < 3) Empty < 4) AMI 304E What's th3 point it's a m8186 kdf-11, aka 11/23? the only thing I can add about it is it appears to have the FIS (floating point extended instruction set) that should run most anything in the way of DEC OSs with the only question being is it limited to 18bit or 22bit able. The latter being less of an issue unless your using more than 256k of ram or certaion backplanes/periperals. < One of my problems is that 4 8" drives are my only storage devices. Any < advice on getting RT-11 or RSX on 8" floppies? I have a bunch of disks, < though I have no way of knowing if they're any good, but no way to writ < to them. RT-11 was nominally supplied on rx01 (8" single density) or rx02 (8" double density) floppies. RSX-11 wants a hard disk for swapping and all. < As far as the Multifunction board, I checked the pins of the console < port with a scope but I can't seem to get anything from it at boot. I < checked the scope on another serial output source and it seems to be < working OK, so I'm assuming that the port on the PDP just isn't giving m 1 which port there are two? 2 is one of the ports set up as a console? 3 is the rom on the MXV setup for the correct boot and is the rom installed? 4 can you hit break and get console ODT prompt and actions? There is a good possibility you have a improperly configured MXV-11 and there is a sea of jumpers on it and it must have the correct proms installed as well. < any console messages immediately on power up? Does it display the POST < procedure, like my Vaxstation? One Sun 3/50 I had with 12 megs of ram to No! The BDV11 if you had it does. < around a minute to display a console message; should there be a long del < like that when booting a PDP-11? If there is a few hundred K maybe 10-20 sec. usually you hear some disk activity before that and then it boots. You vax and Sun knowledge is not helping you as this isn't them. Allison

27 years, 8 months

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Top 10 Holy Grails of Classic Microcomputer Collecting

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 08:24 PM 10/5/98 -0500, you wrote: >I've always wanted to know which machines have only a single instance >represented on this list. If I've got any that aren't duplicated, I'd guess them to be: NEC PC-8201 (not the PC-8201A) Datavue 25 Iasis Computer-in-a-Book (I think Hal Layer has one, but I don't think he's on the list) Symbolics 3600 Seequa Chameleon? Sanyo MBC-8000 Zenith ZP-150? --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/

27 years, 8 months

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Top 10 Holy Grails of Classic Microcomputer Collecting

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 08:38 PM 10/5/98 -0700, you wrote: >How many people have a Chameleon? A friend of mine gave it to me probably 5 >or so years ago when he was cleaning out his garage. Bzzzt... Got three. Also have some scans (from a former employee of Seequa) of one of the brochures. (Gotta remember to get back to him to get more info.) --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/

27 years, 8 months

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Top 10 Holy Grails of Classic Microcomputer Collecting

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 03:44 PM 10/5/98 -0700, you wrote: >Just for the hell of it, I thought I'd make a list of the Top 10 Holy Grails >of classic microcomputer computer collecting. This is the "Rembrandt in the Hmmm... Seems like your list got garbled in transmission... Here's what it should have looked like, I think: Canon FlatCat STM Systems Baby! 1 Teleram Model 4000 and 5000 Atari ST Book and ST Pad Apricot Portable Dynalogic Hyperion Osborne "Encore" and "Vixen" Gavilan GRiD Compass 1100 Toshiba T1100 Unfortunately, I've only got one of those so far. --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/

27 years, 8 months

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Corrections to trivia

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

Although it's certainly interesting, I doubt my new-found knowledge of the first microprocessor is going to radically change any of my view of the world. F14CADC doesn't mean anything different than 4004. But, what I guess might be significant is that this shows how major an impact the military has played on computers. The ENIAC, F14CADC, DEC Alpha, and other stuff I'm sure can all be attributed to the pentagon. And _that_ is significant because instead of saying that the computer is a triumph of enterpreneurs and daring capitalists, we can _also_ say that it is a triumph of America's great war machine. > >the F14 CADC was the first microcomputer system that made fly by wire >practical. The 4004 was the first commercially viable single chip CPU. >Clear statments that do not conflict but do make a statment that points >to their significance. > >< I'm not denying that Holt produced a CPU, and it may be important in th >< history of military computers. It is irrelevant in the history of the >< personal computer unless there was a personal computer designed that >< included it or a direct descendant. > >Or the technology that made the silicon possible for later commercial >designs. It doesn't have to be the same design. > >< I think it's great that Holt got his story out. Footnotes always add >< depth, but no chapters need to be rewritten. > >The assuption is they are accurate chapters. ;) the depth is needed to >see how the later chapters are significant. > > >Allison > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

27 years, 8 months

2
1
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Apple IV/Lisa (was: Re: Somebody has a C65 on eBay)

by tomowad＠earthlink.net

>>>There's some evidence to suggest that the Lisa is the Apple VI, which raises >>>the question of what happened to IV and V. >> >> I think it would be more accurate to say that Apple considered naming the >> Lisa the Apple IV. "Lisa" was originally just a code name, after all. > >In what way can that be said to be more accurate? "...Lisa is the Apple IV" gives one the impression that the Apple IV was a definite computer, rather than just a name that was considered, but never actually used, for the Lisa. It is quite probable Apple considered using the name "Apple IV" for many computers that shipped after the Apple ///. Said Steve Wozniak, in reference to the Apple ///, "...when we reintroduced it we should have called it the Apple IV." (The Mac Bathroom Reader, pg 34). My point is, "Apple IV" is such a logical name for a computer from Apple that it could have been considered for just about anything. "Apple IV", however, is not the sort of name that was used as a codename at Apple, and therefore most likely would not have been called so in the development stage, though there are many prototypes that could have ended up bearing that name. Of course, I'm just hypothesizing here. :-) >Aside from the marketing model numbers, the only information I've ever found >regarding alternate names that may have been considered was the story about >the name "Applause". According to _The Mac Bathroom Reader_, by Owen Linzmayer, page 80: "Apple figured it needed a more professional-sounding name to appeal to the business market, so it hired an outside consulting firm to recommend a new name. Among others, they suggested Applause, Apple IV, Apple 400, The Coach, Espirit, Teacher, and The World. Quite an effort went into thinking up a different name, but the forthcoming computer had already received so much press coverage under its code name that Apple reverse engineereed the explanation that Lisa stood for 'Local Integrated Software Architecture'" If you're interested in reading about Mac History & prototypes, _The Mac Bathroom Reader" by Owen Linzmayer and _AppleDesign_ by Paul Kunkel are both excellent books. Tom Owad -- Sysop of Caesarville Online Client software at: <http://home.earthlink.net/~tomowad/>

27 years, 8 months

2
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Aquarius Data Recorders

by dlw＠trailingedge.com

I just received an email from a local group which has 250 new in box Aquarius cassette recorders. They are taking bids but I suspect you can't just buy a few but would have to take the whole lot. I have one but could use at least one more and maybe two and it would be nice to have the box and any doc or cables. Is there any interest in this out there? If so, how much would people be willing to pay? Don't forget shipping costs. Let me know. BTW, "local" in this case is Houston, TX. ----- David Williams - Computer Packrat dlw(a)trailingedge.com http://www.trailingedge.com

27 years, 8 months

4
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subscribe

by mew_jac＠swbell.net

27 years, 8 months

1
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North Star Horizon Help

by kaikal＠MICROSOFT.com

Do you have the manuals? You'll need to check the port definitions that are set via jumpers on the open DIPs near the back of the motherboard. Also, I seem to recall that North Star DOS was generated for a specific RAM size -- I believe it's top-resident. A DOS set up for 16K would work on 32K or 48K, but not vice versa. Kai -----Original Message----- From: David Williams [mailto:dlw@trailingedge.com] Sent: Tuesday, October 06, 1998 3:38 PM To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Subject: North Star Horizon Help Ok, I have a few minutes now to play around with the N* Horizon I've been fixing up. I've tried to power it up and it seems to hit the disk drive and then nothing. I've plugged some spare terminals into the port marked "Video Terminal Port" and played with baud rates and other comm settings but get nothing on any of my terminals. Also tried straight through and flipped comm cables. Can someone give me some info on these and maybe walk me through getting it set up and running so I can check and see if I've missed something? Oh, I'm trying both N*DOS 5.2 and N* CP/M 2.2. Thanks. ----- David Williams - Computer Packrat dlw(a)trailingedge.com http://www.trailingedge.com

27 years, 8 months

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TI CC-40 was RE: Vaporware (and not) from '83 CES

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

I have one; does anyone know where I could get a tape drive and some cartridges for it? >The TI CC-40 exists for sure - I've seen several of them. > >Bob > >------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >Bob Withers Do or do not, there is no try. >bwit(a)pobox.com Yoda >------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > >On Tuesday, October 06, 1998 7:07 PM, Kai Kaltenbach [SMTP:kaikal@microsoft.com] wrote: >> New computers announced at the 1983 CES: >> >> Vaporware? Please respond if you KNOW any of these exist for SURE. >> >> - Panasonic JR-200 (I think this may exist) >> - Sanyo PCH20/PHC25 (Z80, 4K/16K, $99/$199) >> - STM Pied Piper (CP/M portable, 64K, $1295) >> - TI 99/2 (Supposedly $100, including 4.2K RAM) >> - TI CC-40 (Compact Computer 40, laptop like Epson HX-20, 4 AA cells, 31 >> character LCD display, $249) >> - Unisonic Futura 8300 (Z80, 2K, Sinclair BASIC, $90) >> - Video Technology VZ200 (Z80, 4K, MS BASIC, $99) >> >> Not Vaporware >> >> - Jupiter Ace >> - Mattel Aquarius >> - Spectravideo SV-318 >> - Timex Sinclair 2000 >> >> >> By the way, has anyone actually seen an TI 99/4 (not 4a)? >> >> Kai >> >> > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

27 years, 8 months

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Top 10 Holy Grails of Classic Microcomputer Collecting

by foxnhare＠goldrush.com

Let's get this into the proper perspective here there is only one "Holy Grail" (unless you read National Inquirer then there are millions for $39.98 plus shipping and handling) Let's see if I can think of some true 'Holy Grails' of computing: 1) The pre Apple 1 prototype Steve Wozniac brought to the Homebrew Computer Club. 2) The original code listing for the BASIC he hand typed to demonstrate that computer. 3) The PDP-1 used to write and play Space War at MIT (with the original game controls) ( I know it's not a micro, but I like the idea. ) 4) 'The original' paper tape of BASIC that was pirated from Bill Gates. Now those would be 'holy grails,' something along the lines of you either don't tell anyone or are very carefull who you tell that you own them. Larry -- -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+- Larry Anderson - Sysop of Silicon Realms BBS (300-2400bd) (209) 754-1363 Visit my Commodore 8-Bit web page at: http://www.goldrush.com/~foxnhare/commodore.html -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-

27 years, 8 months

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C65

by foxnhare＠goldrush.com

> From: Sam Ismail <dastar(a)ncal.verio.com> > Subject: Re: Somebody has a C65 on eBay > > On Mon, 5 Oct 1998, Cameron Kaiser wrote: > > > :: > > ::Somebody's posted a Commodore C65 prototype on eBay. 4 days left and the > > ::bidding is at $1025. > > :: > > > > That's nothing. The last one sold went for $1400. (!) > > Well, how many of these "prototypes" exist? Has anyone authenticated > these things? I would venture to guess a couple hundred to several hundred. Commodore was almost to production before they decided to drop the C65 (I remember reading 1991 as the year they dopped the project). After Commodore went bankrupt some of thier warehouse assetts were liquidated, the Graprvine Group in New York had bought the one with the most c65s and were selling them for I think about $100 a unit. It kinda resembles an Amiga 500 with the floppy drive facing forward (no neumeric keypad). The c65 would best be compared to the Apple IIgs, still has its roots in the 6502 but alot of the graphics and sound are adapted from Amiga technology. It would have done well with the people wanting a more amiga-like system without sacrificing all thier Commodore 8-bit drives and such. There are enough c65s out there that some people have FTP sites of c65 programs. Unfortunately I wasn't one of the people who got a c65 on time. *sigh* -- -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+- Larry Anderson - Sysop of Silicon Realms BBS (300-2400bd) (209) 754-1363 Visit my Commodore 8-Bit web page at: http://www.goldrush.com/~foxnhare/commodore.html -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-

27 years, 8 months

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Corrections to trivia

by CLASSICCMP＠trailing-edge.com

> Intel supplied the ammunition for a >revolution: cheap computers. The high level of integration was what >enabled them to make it cheap, and they commercialized it. The level of >integration is the salient feature of the chip, but not the main feature >of the important event. It *certainly* wasn't obvious in the mid-70's, when Intel had picked up its pieces and put together a microprocessor chip (the 8080A) which cost a significant fraction of what a new car cost at the time, that VLSI CPU's were going to be replacing boards full of TTL logic. It was Intel's competitors - notably Motorola and especially MOS Technology - who were responsible for driving microprocessor CPU costs to the hundred-dollar-level and below. That's when times really began a-changin'. Tim.

27 years, 8 months

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Vaporware (and not) from '83 CES

by bwit＠pobox.com

The TI CC-40 exists for sure - I've seen several of them. Bob ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bob Withers Do or do not, there is no try. bwit(a)pobox.com Yoda ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- On Tuesday, October 06, 1998 7:07 PM, Kai Kaltenbach [SMTP:kaikal@microsoft.com] wrote: > New computers announced at the 1983 CES: > > Vaporware? Please respond if you KNOW any of these exist for SURE. > > - Panasonic JR-200 (I think this may exist) > - Sanyo PCH20/PHC25 (Z80, 4K/16K, $99/$199) > - STM Pied Piper (CP/M portable, 64K, $1295) > - TI 99/2 (Supposedly $100, including 4.2K RAM) > - TI CC-40 (Compact Computer 40, laptop like Epson HX-20, 4 AA cells, 31 > character LCD display, $249) > - Unisonic Futura 8300 (Z80, 2K, Sinclair BASIC, $90) > - Video Technology VZ200 (Z80, 4K, MS BASIC, $99) > > Not Vaporware > > - Jupiter Ace > - Mattel Aquarius > - Spectravideo SV-318 > - Timex Sinclair 2000 > > > By the way, has anyone actually seen an TI 99/4 (not 4a)? > > Kai > >

27 years, 8 months

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Aquarius Data Recorders

by SUPRDAVE＠aol.com

In a message dated 10/6/98 5:25:47 PM US Eastern Standard Time, oajones(a)bright.net writes: > Hi David, > I would be interested in one cassette recorder. myself included. perhaps two if the price is low.

27 years, 8 months

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Definitions

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

I think it's helpful to say that a computer is any implement, mechanical or otherwise, to aid in calculation. But this means rocks, fingers, and calculators are all computers. I guess we can say, any machine which is capable of performing something besides addition, mulitplication, subtraction, division without further input from the user. Thus, I guess a computer must either have stuff like that hard-coded (like a slide-rule) or be programmable. So, from this 1-min. train of thought, I say: A computer is any implement capable of processing super-arithmetic functions. BTW, my New Bantam English Dictionary says: A machine capable of performing highly complex mathematical calculations at very high speed. >calculator, reckoner. spec. a person employed to make calculations in an >observatory, in surveying, etc. >1646 Sir T. Browne Pseud. Ep. vi vi 289 The Clenders of these computers. >1704 .... > >I've heard that some newer editions of the OED have added some of the >more modern usages. > > >> an industry that in my lifetime went from the early commercial vacuum >> tube machines to the 64bit CPU chip running some thousands of times >> faster. > >And with software that has grown to compensate for the speed of the >hardware and keep the usefulness of the system where it was. > > >Nevertheless, it WOULD help if we agreed on basic definitions of our >fundamental terminology. > > >-- >Fred Cisin cisin(a)xenosoft.com >XenoSoft http://www.xenosoft.com >2210 Sixth St. (510) 644-9366 >Berkeley, CA 94710-2219 > > > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

27 years, 8 months

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North Star Horizon Help

by dlw＠trailingedge.com

Ok, I have a few minutes now to play around with the N* Horizon I've been fixing up. I've tried to power it up and it seems to hit the disk drive and then nothing. I've plugged some spare terminals into the port marked "Video Terminal Port" and played with baud rates and other comm settings but get nothing on any of my terminals. Also tried straight through and flipped comm cables. Can someone give me some info on these and maybe walk me through getting it set up and running so I can check and see if I've missed something? Oh, I'm trying both N*DOS 5.2 and N* CP/M 2.2. Thanks. ----- David Williams - Computer Packrat dlw(a)trailingedge.com http://www.trailingedge.com

27 years, 8 months

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Top 10 Holy Grails of Classic Microcomputer Collecting

by MPritchard＠EnsembleStudios.com

My personal list is much smaller and more mundane.. and more personal, these are machines I actually worked on when I was very young. 1) Compucolor 2 (The Model with floppy disk in the monitor housing) - I let one of these, working w/ software slip through my hands about 4-5 years ago 2) an Exidy Sorcerer - I have a story about loosing a huge folder full of software and papers because I left them at a computer store where I was working on one; when I came back next week, they had folded and were gone. every time one comes up on the net, I'm too late, alas. 3) Ohio Scientific Challenger 4p (?) -Matt Pritchard > -----Original Message----- > From: Kai Kaltenbach [SMTP:kaikal@MICROSOFT.com] > Sent: Monday, October 05, 1998 5:45 PM > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: Top 10 Holy Grails of Classic Microcomputer Collecting > > Just for the hell of it, I thought I'd make a list of the Top 10 Holy > Grails > of classic microcomputer computer collecting. This is the "Rembrandt in > the > Attic" sort of stuff. These are roughly in my opinionated order, but > somewhat randomly ordered: > > 1. The Altair prototype that was to be the cover photo for Popular > Electronics but was lost in shipment > 2. Xerox Alto > 3. Mark 8 > 4. Scelbi 8H > 5. Kenbak-1 > 6. Micral 8008 > 7. Apple I > 8. An unassembled Altair 8800 Kit > 9. Busicom Japan Intel 4004-based Calculator > 10. IBM 5100 > > Kai > >

27 years, 8 months

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a collectors grail

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< >> Don't you mean 1801R and 1801S? My early 18xx book doesn't list any < > Both. Mine do, I have an unusual collection of RCA data books with al < < Well, don't leave us in suspense. What's an 18101? Did it come before < or after the 1801R/1801S pair? During... it was the SBC with both chips. Allison

27 years, 8 months

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Somebody has a C65 on eBay

by mark_k＠iname.com

On Mon, 5 Oct 1998 Sam Ismail wrote: >> ::Somebody's posted a Commodore C65 prototype on eBay. 4 days left and the >> ::bidding is at $1025. >> >> That's nothing. The last one sold went for $1400. (!) > >Well, how many of these "prototypes" exist? Has anyone authenticated >these things? I'd say quite a few. A couple of years ago a company which sells Amiga & Commodore spares listed C65s in their ad in Amiga Computing magazine. Christmas 96 issue, Paxtron corporation ad: Motherboards (factory new) C65 inc. all chips, latest ROM (PAL only) $70 C65 service manual $20 There is/was also a C65 mailing list. -- Mark

27 years, 8 months

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Definitions

by jsalzman＠hersheys.com

>So would it be possible to come up with a group sanctioned list of >definitions for: > computer (generic) Someone who calculates numbers > digital computer Someone who uses an electronic calculator to calculate numbers > analog computer Someone who uses an abacus to calculate numbers > minicomputer The assistant to the Computer > microcomputer The assistant to the Computer's assistant > processor Someone who collects and delivers the finished calculations > microprocessor ...his assistant > mainframe The big connecting series of tables where all these people work from Sorry guys, but after the day I had at work, I needed to interject a shot of humor Jeff Salzman Tongue-in-cheek

27 years, 8 months

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Rookie PDP help needed again...

by aaron＠wfi-inc.com

Thanks for the other responses about the cards, I think I have all the Plessey clone cards identified with the DEC models. However, I am a little confused on my CPU board identification. The board is an M8186, which I have searched on and found to be a KDF11-AA. Or KDF11-AB. Or KDF11-AC. The problem is that I can't find any revision code on the board. To add to the confusion, the original configuration sheet in the case lists the CPU board as a KDF11-HF, of which I haven't been able to find any info at all. Does anyone have any info on this CPU, or can you tell me how to identify which board it actually is? Also, I have looked everywhere for a CPU/OS matrix and haven't found it. Could someone provide me with a URL or just a quick hand-rolled list of what versions of which OS run on which processor? The multifunction board is Plessey #MFV11A; same as DEC MXV11A? I tried to make a console cable using the pinouts on the sunsite PDP-11 page with no success, setting the terminal at 4800baud. Is there something I'm missing here, or can someone suggest how to wire the cable? I just arranged a loner scope (my Tek is basically dead), so I'll start going pin-by-pin until I figure it out, but a "here's how to wire the cable" would sure help a lot. Finally, is there anyone who remembers these clones? Does anyone have _any_ documentation on them at all? Anything really different from a standard DEC PDP-11? The front panel calls it a "Plessey Periperal Systems - Micro II." It has 6 switches on the panel: write protect switches for the two internal 8" floppies, the cpu halt/enable switch, a boot switch, an LTY on/off switch, and the power switch. Any info at all would be greatly appreciated. I feel like I've just stepped into the pages of a wild adventure book... Aaron

27 years, 8 months

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Corrections to trivia

by cmcmanis＠freegate.com

At 01:30 PM 10/6/98 -0500, Doug wrote: >I'm not denying that Holt produced a CPU, and it may be important in the >history of military computers. It is irrelevant in the history of the >personal computer unless there was a personal computer designed that >included it or a direct descendant. So do you judge Xerox's impact on the "personal computer" as their Xerox 820 II or 8/16 machines or by the impact PARC had on user interface metaphors? One of the more subtle things that this sort of blanket statement misses is that places like the Silicon valley are filled with folks going from job to job and bringing their knowledge (some of it classified) with them. Xerox had a tremendous impact on Sun because a lot of ex-Xeroids went to work there (look at a Dandelion box and a Sun 3/160 sometime :-) The impact of Ray's design could be indirectly felt by people who worked with him and went elsewhere. --Chuck

27 years, 8 months

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RSX-11M and CSR's

by mbg＠world.std.com

I think RSX has something called autoconfig which will tell you how your system is configured (apparently by actually touching the hardware).... RT-11 can only tell you a part of the information, and only if it matches the configuration of the handers... SHOW CONFIG will tell you about the machine itself (processor, memory, fpu, etc) while SHOW DEVICES will list all the devices for which at least the CSR the handler knows about responds... even if the CSR is the wrong one for that handler... Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+

27 years, 8 months

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Corrections to trivia

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< ::It was Intel's competitors - notably Motorola and especially MOS < ::Technology - who were responsible for driving microprocessor CPU cost < ::to the hundred-dollar-level and below. That's when times really bega < ::a-changin'. Tim is right as is was MOS Tech. that lobbed the biggest shot by offering the 6502 for a mere $20 (single unit price!) at one of the computer shows. < I agree with this. The 6502 architecture and the 6800/68000 series did m Where did zilog fit in... they certainly improved on the 8080, they did it cheaper and had a design that was easier to use too. Forced intel to emphasize the 8085 that didn't extend the instructionset of the 8080 any significant amount. < to advance low-cost computing than anything Intel did. Intel seemed perf < satisfied to stay in the high-end market until relatively recently. I strongly disagree. The following were Intel chips aimed at low to mid end applications/markets. 8048/9 series the 8088 and 80188 parts (8bit bus lower cost to use design with) 8051 series That may not be the total list either. The market that intel couldn't or didn't care to be in was the $1 single chip microprocessor market where TMS1000, COPS, uCOM4 and other 4bitters can and did have a distinct presence. Allison

27 years, 8 months

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Top 10 Holy Grails of Classic Microcomputer Collecting

by altair8800＠hotmail.com

I received a tip last year that a long time computer business located in Mobile, Alabama was a virtual storehouse of vintage machines. I payed them a visit and could not get past the receptionist. I was told that they occasionally donated the things to be used in educational institutions but that they were absolutely not interested in selling anything. About six months later I learned that the business had closed. Subsequently, I was told by a veteran employee of this firm that when they shut their doors they hauled two Xerox Altos (among many others) to the landfill. I told this person that it was unlikely that they would ever have been in possesion of Xerox Altos but he was adamant that they were indeed Xerox Altos. In hindsight, I now wish I had fibbed to that receptionist and told her that I was connected with the University of Alabama. Bob Wood ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

27 years, 8 months

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