11 Mar
2018
11 Mar
'18
5 p.m.
All,
More of the stack. if any of this interests you please contact me via Private (not list)
email at mtapley at swri.edu.
If you do want something, send me your shipping address and exactly what you want.
I'll get back to you with estimated shipping costs (USPS media rate where possible) as
soon as I can. You send me payment (any method is acceptable; USPS does not recommend cash
in the mail) and I will ship when payment arrives. If you want Fed-Ex or something
different from USPS media let me know at your first contact and I will price that for you.
If you can afford to send slightly more than costs, I'll collect up the surplus for
Cindy and get it to her.
If more than one person wants the same thing, it goes to the person sending me the
earliest time-tagged email.
If Al K. wants anything for Bitsavers, he gets priority (even if his is not the first
email) up until it leaves my hands.
There will be multiple sets of email from me, each with a short list of things,
unless/until someone asks me to quit.
Thanks for your attention!
- Mark
This list is all Books (down to and including pamphlets), no software included.
?????????
Adobe Photoshop for Macintosh, Version 3 (Classroom in a Book), 1994.
American Heritage Dictionary: 3rd edition for Mac. 32 pages.
Communicator 4 quick-study guide. Laminated folder.
DeltaGraph Pro 3 Users Guide, 2nd edition. 1993.
Excel 5.0 Advanced, Macintosh, student manual. Logical Operations. 1994.
Excel: Mastering Excel 5 for the Mac (An Insiders Guide). Thomas Chester and Julia Kelly.
1995.
Eudora Mail Pro, educational use. V. 3.0 user manual & quick reference guide.
FrameMaker. Using Framemaker release 5, Windows and Macintosh. 1995.
Inspiration user manuals. Getting Started manual. Idea book.
Netscape: Official Netscape Communicator 4 Book. Macintosh edition. Pi? James. 1997.
Now Up-to-date and Now Contact (user manuals). (Two different versions, to match the two
different versions on disk we have, I imagine.)
Office: Getting Started.
The On-line Research Handbook. Hayden Mead and Andy Clark. 1997.
Port Replicator: Users Guide. Micronpc.com 1999
PowerPoint: Using PowerPoint 4 for Macintosh. Que, 1994.
Quicken version 5.: Users Guide for Macintosh Perform Users.
Quicken 5 for Macs for Dummies. Stephen L. Nelson. 1994.
The Student?s Guide to Doing Research on the Internet. Dave and Mary Campbell,
Addison-Wesley. 1995.
vi: Learning the vi editor. Linda Lamb, O?Reilly & Associates, Ltd. 1990.
Word: The Macintosh Bible Guide to Word 6. Maria Langer. ?Includes Power Macs.? 1995.
12 Mar
12 Mar
12:01 a.m.
New subject: XT/370 microcode
Does someone have good connections with people inside IBM? I'd like to
ask about 68000 microcode for the XT/370 product.
4:13 a.m.
New subject: XT/370 microcode
I don't suppose any one left in IBM has any knowledge of this. Perhaps no
one ever did and it was all done by Motorola. Wikipedia says there were/are
2x68000 CPU's..
.. I would ask on IBM Main...
http://www.cpushack.com/2013/03/22/cpu-of-the-day-ibm-micro-370/
seems to have some names..
Dave
-----Original Message-----
From: cctalk <cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org> On Behalf Of Lars Brinkhoff
via cctalk
Sent: 12 March 2018 07:02
To: cctalk at classiccmp.org
Subject: XT/370 microcode
Does someone have good connections with people inside IBM? I'd like to
ask
about 68000 microcode for the XT/370 product.
7:40 a.m.
New subject: XT/370 microcode
On Mon, Mar 12, 2018, 05:13 Dave Wade via cctalk <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
wrote:
. Wikipedia says there were/are
2x68000 CPU's..
One Motorola chip was the custom one, the other was normal (as indicated by
mask code). There was also an Intel math co, presumably derived from 8087.
I used to have an AT/370, which had the same chipset, but I was never able
to obtain the software.
I very strongly suspect the modified 68000 and 8087 have more than just
microcode differences, and that full reverse-engineering of the die would
be necessary to accomplish anything useful with the microcode. Neither chip
was designed to be a general-purpose microcode engine; both were very
heavily tailored for their exact visible architecture, and 370 architecture
is enough different that it couldn't be implemented by microcode only
changes with no data path changes; the microcode ROMs and PLAs just aren't
big enough to work around the data path issues.
8:56 a.m.
New subject: XT/370 microcode
Some of the code is now on bitsavers..
Dave
From: Eric Smith <spacewar at gmail.com>
Sent: 12 March 2018 14:41
To: Dave Wade <dave.g4ugm at gmail.com>; General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic
Posts <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Cc: Lars Brinkhoff <lars at nocrew.org>
Subject: Re: XT/370 microcode
On Mon, Mar 12, 2018, 05:13 Dave Wade via cctalk <cctalk at classiccmp.org
<mailto:cctalk at classiccmp.org> > wrote:
. Wikipedia says there were/are
2x68000 CPU's..
One Motorola chip was the custom one, the other was normal (as indicated by mask code).
There was also an Intel math co, presumably derived from 8087.
I used to have an AT/370, which had the same chipset, but I was never able to obtain the
software.
I very strongly suspect the modified 68000 and 8087 have more than just microcode
differences, and that full reverse-engineering of the die would be necessary to accomplish
anything useful with the microcode. Neither chip was designed to be a general-purpose
microcode engine; both were very heavily tailored for their exact visible architecture,
and 370 architecture is enough different that it couldn't be implemented by microcode
only changes with no data path changes; the microcode ROMs and PLAs just aren't big
enough to work around the data path issues.
15 Mar
15 Mar
1:29 a.m.
New subject: XT/370 microcode
You might look up Nick Tredennick's book "Microprocessor Logic Design:
The Flowchart Method" which is sold at Amazon for an obscene price - but
maybe some university library has a copy. It's focus is on a methodology
for designing microcode, and it uses the design of the single chip 370
to explain it. I suppose it was a PhD thesis.
The main point is that the 370 is NOT an 68000 with a different
microcode; instead it is said that it implements the bus interface of
the 68K in order to interface easily with existing peripherals (rather
than reinventing the wheel). The internal data paths and register sets
may be similar between the 68K and the 370 (actually it is quite
possible that at Motorola they were aware of IBM mainframe
architectures...) but that's all likely. The control unit design
described in the book was completely redesigned for the purpose of
describing the proposed methodology.
Holger
Am 12.03.2018 um 12:13 schrieb Dave Wade via cctalk:
I don't suppose any one left in IBM has any
knowledge of this. Perhaps no
one ever did and it was all done by Motorola. Wikipedia says there were/are
2x68000 CPU's..
.. I would ask on IBM Main...
http://www.cpushack.com/2013/03/22/cpu-of-the-day-ibm-micro-370/
seems to have some names..
Dave
-----Original Message-----
From: cctalk <cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org> On Behalf Of Lars Brinkhoff
via cctalk
Sent: 12 March 2018 07:02
To: cctalk at classiccmp.org
Subject: XT/370 microcode
Does someone have good connections with people inside IBM? I'd like to
ask
> about 68000 microcode for the XT/370 product. 
5:04 a.m.
New subject: XT/370 microcode
On 2018-03-15 09:29, Veit, Holger via cctalk wrote:
You might look up Nick Tredennick's book
"Microprocessor Logic Design:
The Flowchart Method" which is sold at Amazon for an obscene price - but
maybe some university library has a copy. It's focus is on a methodology
for designing microcode, and it uses the design of the single chip 370
to explain it. I suppose it was a PhD thesis.
He did the 68000 microcode first, and then moved to IBM ...
5:58 a.m.
New subject: XT/370 microcode
On 3/15/18, 9:29 AM, "cctech on behalf of Veit, Holger via cctech"
<cctech-bounces at classiccmp.org on behalf of cctech at classiccmp.org> wrote:
You might look up Nick Tredennick's book "Microprocessor Logic Design:
The Flowchart Method" which is sold at Amazon for an obscene price - but
maybe some university library has a copy. It's focus is on a methodology
for designing microcode, and it uses the design of the single chip 370
to explain it. I suppose it was a PhD thesis.
The main point is that the 370 is NOT an 68000 with a different
microcode; instead it is said that it implements the bus interface of
the 68K in order to interface easily with existing peripherals (rather
than reinventing the wheel). The internal data paths and register sets
may be similar between the 68K and the 370 (actually it is quite
possible that at Motorola they were aware of IBM mainframe
architectures...) but that's all likely. The control unit design
described in the book was completely redesigned for the purpose of
describing the proposed methodology.
Holger
There are two distinct products (well, one product and one project that never made it onto
a product) here that get confused. First, the XT/370. This card uses a 68000 with modified
firmware (nick was one of the Motorola engineers helping implement this for IBM), as well
as a modified 8087, and a stock 68000. Later, Nick left Motorola and came to work at IBM
on the Micro/370. The Micro/370 is the 370 on a single chip, and it uses the 68000 bus,
but is otherwise different from it. A good writeup of the story can be found here:
http://www.cpushack.com/2013/03/22/cpu-of-the-day-ibm-micro-370/
Camiel
10:35 a.m.
New subject: XT/370 microcode
You might look up Nick Tredennick's book
"Microprocessor Logic Design:
The Flowchart Method" which is sold at Amazon for an obscene price
FWIW, there are several copies on Abe Books ranging in price from "only" $800
(a steal!) to almost $1200.
I'd love to read it, but that's ludicrous. Is this book bound in solid gold or
something???
Bob
11:54 p.m.
New subject: XT/370 microcode
On 2018-03-15 18:35, Robert Armstrong via cctalk wrote:
It was mentioned few month ago in a newsgroup. So all "reasonable"
copies got sold, and the price increased. Just wait ...
But it is a nice reading, I don't always agree with N.Tredennick,
and explains pretty much, why this CPUs were/are so weird ...
You might look
up Nick Tredennick's book "Microprocessor Logic Design:
The Flowchart Method" which is sold at Amazon for an obscene price
FWIW, there are several copies on Abe Books ranging in price from "only" $800
(a steal!) to almost $1200.
I'd love to read it, but that's ludicrous. Is this book bound in solid gold or
something???
2473
days inactive
2477
days old
10 comments
8 participants
participants (8)
-
bob＠jfcl.com -
camiel.vanderhoeven＠vmssoftware.com -
dave.g4ugm＠gmail.com -
emu＠e-bbes.com -
holger.veit＠iais.fraunhofer.de -
lars＠nocrew.org -
mtapley＠swri.edu -
spacewar＠gmail.com