4 Feb
2018
4 Feb
'18
4:42 p.m.
The alphaserver 1000a I have has a storageworks array.
The disk carriers are green in color, I see storageworks disks for sale
on ebay that are blue.? What is the difference? Are they interchangeable?
Is it possible (or even wise) to open one of the green carriers and
change the disk out?
Doug
4 Feb
4 Feb
5:14 p.m.
On 02/04/2018 02:42 PM, Douglas Taylor via cctech wrote:
The alphaserver 1000a I have has a storageworks
array.
The disk carriers are green in color, I see storageworks disks for sale
on ebay that are blue. What is the difference? Are they interchangeable?
Is it possible (or even wise) to open one of the green carriers and
change the disk out?
I believe that it is possible to open the carriers and put different
drives in.
If memory serves (often it does not) the drives are single ended narrow
SCSI. So, in theory, any SE narrow drive should work. I don't recall
the Alpha using different block sizes, but that may be do to lack of
exposure.
I don't know if there was a difference in the blue enclosures vs the
green enclosures or not.
I do think that some of the external StorageWorks enclosures used High
Voltage Differential to allow enclosures to be greater distances from
the chassis they were connected to. - I think there was an interposer
board to translate from High Voltage Differential (HVD) and Low Voltage
Differential (LVD) which the drives used.
My exposure to DEC Alpha equipment was minimal and a LONG time ago. So
take everything with a grain of salt. But do be mindful that DEC liked
to mix and match things.
--
Grant. . . .
unix || die
7:35 p.m.
The alphaserver 1000a I have has a storageworks array.
The disk carriers are green in color, I see storageworks disks for sale
on ebay that are blue.? What is the difference? Are they interchangeable?
As far as I know, the green ones are 8 bit SCSI and the blue ones are 16 bit
SCSI.
If I recall correctly, if you put green disks in a blue shelf, they work but
I'm not sure if they force the rest of the bus to work in 8 bit mode. If you
put blue disks in a green shelf, they work in 8 bit mode. I'm looking at one
here doing just that.
Is it possible (or even wise) to open one of the green carriers and
change the disk out?
It shouldn't be a problem. The green ones have 50 pin connectors for the
disks and the blue ones have 68 pin connectors. Other issues that might arise
include whether the internal cables will reach to where the connectors are on
the replacement disk.
In the days of the green disks, it was possible to buy empty (white) containers
to put your own disks in from DEC or whatever they were called then. I think
these were slightly more flexible on the mounting arrangements and cable layout
for the disks inside them than the green containers.
Regards,
Peter Coghlan.
9:53 p.m.
I want to say the difference is in HVD vs LVD SCSI ... unless you?ve swapped out the guts
yourself, I?d not mix and match...
Then again it?s been forever since I monkeyed with those things and I could be
mistaken...
As for opening them, I?ve cracked them open before. It?s possible, but they were not
manufactured to have their drives replaced easily... I damaged one last time I tried... be
careful.
Do you have the controller too, or just the jbod?
-Ben
Sent from my iPhone
On Feb 4, 2018, at 1:42 PM, Douglas Taylor via cctech
<cctech at classiccmp.org> wrote:
The alphaserver 1000a I have has a storageworks array.
The disk carriers are green in color, I see storageworks disks for sale on ebay that are
blue. What is the difference? Are they interchangeable?
Is it possible (or even wise) to open one of the green carriers and change the disk out?
Doug
11:17 p.m.
Ben;
Jbod.? Didn't know what it meant until today.? The computer has 4 SCSI
controllers, the Storageworks is operated in a split configuration.? 4
drives are on a RAID controller, the other 3 are on a normal SCSI
controller.
What I was getting at with replacing the disks in the carrier was
exactly what you mentioned; LVD or HVD SCSI.? I don't know what is in
there.? Is it 50 pin or 68 or 80 pin.
Doug
On 2/4/2018 9:53 PM, Benjamin Huntsman wrote:
I want to say the difference is in HVD vs LVD SCSI ...
unless you?ve swapped out the guts yourself, I?d not mix and match...
Then again it?s been forever since I monkeyed with those things and I could be
mistaken...
As for opening them, I?ve cracked them open before. It?s possible, but they were not
manufactured to have their drives replaced easily... I damaged one last time I tried... be
careful.
Do you have the controller too, or just the jbod?
-Ben
Sent from my iPhone
> On Feb 4, 2018, at 1:42 PM, Douglas Taylor via cctech <cctech at
classiccmp.org> wrote:
>
> The alphaserver 1000a I have has a storageworks array.
>
> The disk carriers are green in color, I see storageworks disks for sale on ebay that
are blue. What is the difference? Are they interchangeable?
>
> Is it possible (or even wise) to open one of the green carriers and change the disk
out?
>
> Doug
>
11:28 p.m.
80-pin is SCA. Definitely no SCA disks in there.
The blue ones should be 68-pin, and the beige ones 50-pin.
Like I said though, double-check me :)
Good luck, and have fun!
-Ben
________________________________
From: Douglas Taylor <dj.taylor4 at comcast.net>
Sent: Sunday, February 4, 2018 8:17 PM
To: Benjamin Huntsman; General Discussion: On-Topic Posts
Subject: Re: DEC Storageworks
Ben;
Jbod. Didn't know what it meant until today. The computer has 4 SCSI
controllers, the Storageworks is operated in a split configuration. 4
drives are on a RAID controller, the other 3 are on a normal SCSI
controller.
What I was getting at with replacing the disks in the carrier was
exactly what you mentioned; LVD or HVD SCSI. I don't know what is in
there. Is it 50 pin or 68 or 80 pin.
Doug
On 2/4/2018 9:53 PM, Benjamin Huntsman wrote:
I want to say the difference is in HVD vs LVD SCSI ...
unless you?ve swapped out the guts yourself, I?d not mix and match...
Then again it?s been forever since I monkeyed with those things and I could be
mistaken...
As for opening them, I?ve cracked them open before. It?s possible, but they were not
manufactured to have their drives replaced easily... I damaged one last time I tried... be
careful.
Do you have the controller too, or just the jbod?
-Ben
Sent from my iPhone
> On Feb 4, 2018, at 1:42 PM, Douglas Taylor via cctech <cctech at
classiccmp.org> wrote:
>
> The alphaserver 1000a I have has a storageworks array.
>
> The disk carriers are green in color, I see storageworks disks for sale on ebay that
are blue. What is the difference? Are they interchangeable?
>
> Is it possible (or even wise) to open one of the green carriers and change the disk
out?
>
> Doug
>
11:56 p.m.
The Storageworks cabinets I worked with were all either LVD or SE
SCSI, no HVD. All of the RZ26 and some of RZ28 and RZ29 disks that I've
seen were 50-pin, the rest 80-pin. I don't recall any 68-pin
Storageworks drives.
Then again, my knowledge of that whole ecosystem is VERY anectdotal
and limited.
I think the answer you need is "Pop the cans open and look first."
Doc
On 2/4/18 10:17 PM, Douglas Taylor via cctech wrote:
Ben;
Jbod.? Didn't know what it meant until today.? The computer has 4 SCSI
controllers, the Storageworks is operated in a split configuration.? 4
drives are on a RAID controller, the other 3 are on a normal SCSI
controller.
What I was getting at with replacing the disks in the carrier was
exactly what you mentioned; LVD or HVD SCSI.? I don't know what is in
there.? Is it 50 pin or 68 or 80 pin.
Doug
On 2/4/2018 9:53 PM, Benjamin Huntsman wrote:
I want to say the difference is in HVD vs LVD
SCSI ...? unless you?ve
swapped out the guts yourself, I?d not mix and match...
Then again it?s been forever since I monkeyed with those things and I
could be mistaken...
As for opening them, I?ve cracked them open before. It?s possible, but
they were not manufactured to have their drives replaced easily... I
damaged one last time I tried... be careful.
Do you have the controller too, or just the jbod?
-Ben
Sent from my iPhone
> On Feb 4, 2018, at 1:42 PM, Douglas Taylor via cctech
> <cctech at classiccmp.org> wrote:
>
> The alphaserver 1000a I have has a storageworks array.
>
> The disk carriers are green in color, I see storageworks disks for
> sale on ebay that are blue.? What is the difference? Are they
> interchangeable?
>
> Is it possible (or even wise) to open one of the green carriers and
> change the disk out?
>
> Doug
>
5 Feb
5 Feb
12:18 a.m.
Sorry, hit send half-done.
The cans are easy to open, and a bit of care will prevent damage to
the electronics.
The internal connectors are all Mylar ribbon cables and the IDC and
Molex connectors are VERY tight. This means that you'll need to use a
putty knife or screwdriver to pry the SCSI and power connectors off the
drive without stressing the ribbon. The ribbon cable *will* either
break away from the plug or just break if you pull on it.
Having said that,, after the obligatory learning curve I did replace
a bunch of the drives in SW cans without mishap. ;-)
Doc
On 2/4/18 10:56 PM, Doc Shipley via cctech wrote:
? The Storageworks cabinets I worked with were all
either LVD or SE
SCSI, no HVD.? All of the RZ26 and some of RZ28 and RZ29 disks that I've
seen were 50-pin, the rest 80-pin.? I don't recall any 68-pin
Storageworks drives.
? Then again, my knowledge of that whole ecosystem is VERY anectdotal
and limited.
? I think the answer you need is "Pop the cans open and look first."
????Doc
On 2/4/18 10:17 PM, Douglas Taylor via cctech wrote:
Ben;
Jbod.? Didn't know what it meant until today.? The computer has 4 SCSI
controllers, the Storageworks is operated in a split configuration.? 4
drives are on a RAID controller, the other 3 are on a normal SCSI
controller.
What I was getting at with replacing the disks in the carrier was
exactly what you mentioned; LVD or HVD SCSI.? I don't know what is in
there.? Is it 50 pin or 68 or 80 pin.
Doug
On 2/4/2018 9:53 PM, Benjamin Huntsman wrote:
I want to say the difference is in HVD vs LVD
SCSI ...? unless you?ve
swapped out the guts yourself, I?d not mix and match...
Then again it?s been forever since I monkeyed with those things and I
could be mistaken...
As for opening them, I?ve cracked them open before. It?s possible,
but they were not manufactured to have their drives replaced
easily... I damaged one last time I tried... be careful.
Do you have the controller too, or just the jbod?
-Ben
Sent from my iPhone
> On Feb 4, 2018, at 1:42 PM, Douglas Taylor via cctech
> <cctech at classiccmp.org> wrote:
>
> The alphaserver 1000a I have has a storageworks array.
>
> The disk carriers are green in color, I see storageworks disks for
> sale on ebay that are blue.? What is the difference? Are they
> interchangeable?
>
> Is it possible (or even wise) to open one of the green carriers and
> change the disk out?
>
> Doug
>
3:42 a.m.
On 4 Feb 2018, at 21:42, Douglas Taylor via cctech
<cctech at classiccmp.org> wrote:
The alphaserver 1000a I have has a storageworks array.
The disk carriers are green in color, I see storageworks disks for sale on ebay that are
blue. What is the difference? Are they interchangeable?
Is it possible (or even wise) to open one of the green carriers and change the disk out?
Doug
You?ve got an 8-bit narrow SCSI system in the 1000A hence the green SBBs (system building
blocks) that maxed out at 9GB IIRC. Blue SBBs matched the Top Gun Blue Alphas (1200
upwards) and were 16 bit wide SCSI going up to 36GB. You can mix and match, a blue drive
in a green shelf will just run 8 bit.
The carriers come apart fairly easily with a flat blade screwdriver but beware that the
snaps that hold the case together can be brittle. Drives themselves are mostly
bog-standard Seagates and the only limitation on drive side is the maximum LUN size you
can create on the RAID controllers which from memory was 32GB. As has been mentioned
elsewhere be VERY careful with the mylar cables. I used to replace drives in SBBs all the
time and the best way to do it is with a narrow flat blade screwdriver down the side of
the socket to gently prise the plug out.
?
Adrian/Witchy
Binary Dinosaurs - Celebrating Computing History from 1972 onwards
w: binarydinosaurs.co.uk t: @binarydinosaurs
f: facebook.com/binarydinosaurs
12:27 p.m.
Tried to send this last night. Some strange Yahoo-Thunderbird problem kept it form
sending.
On 2/4/2018 3:42 PM, Douglas Taylor via cctech wrote:
The alphaserver 1000a I have has a storageworks
array.
The disk carriers are green in color, I see storageworks disks for sale on ebay that are
blue.? What is the difference? Are they interchangeable?
Green are the original SE SCSI. Top speed 5/10Mb. The blue are LVD SCSI Top speed
20Mbs? They are not the faster 160 or 320 SCSI. You can put either in your A/S 1000 but
the blue will be limited to the 5/10Mb speed of the SE SCSI bus.
Is it possible (or even wise) to open one of the green
carriers and change the disk out?
Yes. I have done it many times replacing failed or just old disks with new(er). As other
have said, you have to carefully unlatch the cover. There are four (4) latches, two on
each side. The plastic latches WILL break if you push too far or too hard (I know this
because... ). Then carefully slide them apart. The back side with the connector will come
loose, tethered to the disk drive by a flexible mylar circuit. Odds are that if it's
a green can then it has a 50-pin SCSI connector on the drive. If it's a blue can then
odds are it's an 80-pin SCA type.
I had a 24-slot RA8000 with a bunch of blue cans that I put Seagate 18GB half-height
drives in about 8 years ago. I jsut gave it away since I was moving from Ohio to Texas
last September.
Doug
--
John H. Reinhardt
2359
days inactive
2360
days old
9 comments
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BHuntsman＠mail2.cu-portland.edu -
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