11 Jun
2021
11 Jun
'21
1:22 p.m.
I am currently working on an IBM 5100 that has some issues. I know for
certain that the 5100 has a bad graphics controller card so I need to dig
into component level replacements for those ICs I can replace. I have a
list of logic chip equivalents to the IBM part numbers that are written on
the chips but I don't think it's 100% accurate because IBM part number
1582601 comes back as 74151 "DATA SEL/MUX" but when I use one of those
cheap logic chip testers (that is surprisingly accurate), it comes back as
a 74157. For the record, if I test a 74151, it comes back as a 74151 so the
tester is correct. I just want to make sure the table I have is accurate
and that the tester is not 100% accurate or if that chip has failed and
tests like a 74157 in it's state.
This is the current list I am using that I got from somewhere but I don't
recall where:
https://vintagecomputer.ca/ibm-vintage-logic-chip-equivalency-list/
Does anyone have an IBM logic chip equivalency table for 74 series logic
chips?
Any help is much appreciated.
Santo
11 Jun
11 Jun
1:29 p.m.
My reliable list says your cheap logic tester is right 1582601 = 74157
Paul.
On 2021-06-11 5:22 p.m., Santo Nucifora via cctalk wrote:
I am currently working on an IBM 5100 that has some
issues. I know for
certain that the 5100 has a bad graphics controller card so I need to dig
into component level replacements for those ICs I can replace. I have a
list of logic chip equivalents to the IBM part numbers that are written on
the chips but I don't think it's 100% accurate because IBM part number
1582601 comes back as 74151 "DATA SEL/MUX" but when I use one of those
cheap logic chip testers (that is surprisingly accurate), it comes back as
a 74157. For the record, if I test a 74151, it comes back as a 74151 so the
tester is correct. I just want to make sure the table I have is accurate
and that the tester is not 100% accurate or if that chip has failed and
tests like a 74157 in it's state.
This is the current list I am using that I got from somewhere but I don't
recall where:
https://vintagecomputer.ca/ibm-vintage-logic-chip-equivalency-list/
Does anyone have an IBM logic chip equivalency table for 74 series logic
chips?
Any help is much appreciated.
Santo
1:32 p.m.
Thank you for the quick reply. As soon as you wrote that, I checked my
list again and I have two entries for 74151. The other is 2392121 which I
assume is the right one?
Would you mind sharing your list? I can cross-reference and see how
accurate mine is.
Thanks again,
Santo
On Fri, Jun 11, 2021 at 4:29 PM Paul Berger via cctalk <
cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
My reliable list says your cheap logic tester is right
1582601 = 74157
Paul.
On 2021-06-11 5:22 p.m., Santo Nucifora via cctalk wrote:
I am currently working on an IBM 5100 that has
some issues. I know for
certain that the 5100 has a bad graphics controller card so I need to dig
into component level replacements for those ICs I can replace. I have a
list of logic chip equivalents to the IBM part numbers that are written
on
the chips but I don't think it's 100%
accurate because IBM part number
1582601 comes back as 74151 "DATA SEL/MUX" but when I use one of those
cheap logic chip testers (that is surprisingly accurate), it comes back
as
a 74157. For the record, if I test a 74151, it
comes back as a 74151 so
the
tester is correct. I just want to make sure the
table I have is accurate
and that the tester is not 100% accurate or if that chip has failed and
tests like a 74157 in it's state.
This is the current list I am using that I got from somewhere but I don't
recall where:
https://vintagecomputer.ca/ibm-vintage-logic-chip-equivalency-list/
Does anyone have an IBM logic chip equivalency table for 74 series logic
chips?
Any help is much appreciated.
Santo
4:39 p.m.
On 6/11/21 3:22 PM, Santo Nucifora via cctalk wrote:
The 74151 is an 8:1 multiplexer with complementary outputs.
The 74157 is a quad 2:1 mux.
I can't imagine any defect that would cause one to test out
as the other.
Jon
8:45 p.m.
On Sat, Jun 12, 2021 at 12:39 AM Jon Elson via cctalk
<cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
On 6/11/21 3:22 PM, Santo Nucifora via cctalk wrote:
The 74151 is an 8:1 multiplexer with complementary outputs.
The 74157 is a quad 2:1 mux.
I can't imagine any defect that would cause one to test out
as the other.
In both cases it would require an input pin to become an output,
something that I can't see how it would happen.
I wonder if in the original list, a '1' was misread as a '7' or vice
versa. I am told that in some countries the '7' is conventionally
written with a crossbar across the downstroke to avoid this. My father
always did this, for all it is not common in England.
-tony
Jon
8:51 p.m.
On Sat, 12 Jun 2021, Tony Duell via cctalk wrote:
In both cases it would require an input pin to become
an output,
something that I can't see how it would happen.
I wonder if in the original list, a '1' was misread as a '7' or vice
versa. I am told that in some countries the '7' is conventionally
written with a crossbar across the downstroke to avoid this. My father
always did this, for all it is not common in England.
50 years ago, I worked for a British physicist who was studying the Van
Allen belts at Goddard Space Flight Center.
He crossed his '7's. But, he thought it odd when I slashed zeroes.
12 Jun
12 Jun
1:58 a.m.
On Sat, 12 Jun 2021, Tony Duell wrote:
I wonder if in the original list, a '1' was
misread as a '7' or vice
versa. I am told that in some countries the '7' is conventionally
written with a crossbar across the downstroke to avoid this. My father
always did this, for all it is not common in England.
In Germany, we *always* write a bar across the 7. I don't like uncrossed
sevens because they are ugly ;-) and hard to distinguish from a 1.
Christian
9:24 a.m.
On 6/12/21 1:58 AM, Christian Corti via cctalk wrote:
On Sat, 12 Jun 2021, Tony Duell wrote:
I do stroke my sevens just for clarity. However, here in the US, few
people write their ones with a serif--just a single vertical stroke.
That, in my experience is not common practice in many European countries.
Writing zero with a slash, by the same token, probably leaves the
Scandanavian readers puzzled--as "oh" stroked is a letter of the
alphabet. Regardless, I stroked mine--a more universal practice might
have been to write zero with a horizontal or vertical stroke.
I recall turning in keypunch forms to be punched and receiving my job
back with a note saying "I didn't know if you meant zero or oh, so a did
some of both". Wastebasket meet card deck.
After that, I pretty much did all my own keypunching; management didn't
like that, but I persisted.
--Chuck
I wonder if in the original list, a '1'
was misread as a '7' or vice
versa. I am told that in some countries the '7' is conventionally
written with a crossbar across the downstroke to avoid this. My father
always did this, for all it is not common in England.
In Germany, we *always* write a bar across the 7. I don't like uncrossed
sevens because they are ugly ;-) and hard to distinguish from a 1.
17 Jun
17 Jun
1:10 p.m.
To provide an update on the repairs so far, I've been able to save a few
boards while others are waiting for parts.
I was able to save a display card (I have two bad ones and one is waiting
for parts) and an APL ROS card which is really great. All by replacing
some bad TTL logic chips. I still have more work to do.
I also have two bad keyboards. It is the actual keyboard assembly as a
known working keyboard works fine. I have taken them apart and cleaned
them as best I could but that didn't help. One has exactly one key that
works (a slash key on the number pad) but no other keys register. The
second keyboard doesn't register anything. I am measuring this from the
keyboard connector on the keyboard mechanism. One of the 5110's I acquired
had a full set of manuals but they were water damaged and the schematics
manual was one solid block of paper with all pages stuck
together, unfortunately. I could really use some schematics.
Does anyone have any schematics for the 5100/5110 they can share? There
are some schematics in the 5100 Maintenance Information Manual on Bitsavers
but they are more logical diagrams than actual schematics. What I don't
know is if my "block of schematics" was like this as well.
Any assistance would be much appreciated.
Santo
On Sat, Jun 12, 2021 at 12:25 PM Chuck Guzis via cctalk <
cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
On 6/12/21 1:58 AM, Christian Corti via cctalk wrote:
On Sat, 12 Jun 2021, Tony Duell wrote:
I do stroke my sevens just for clarity. However, here in the US, few
people write their ones with a serif--just a single vertical stroke.
That, in my experience is not common practice in many European countries.
Writing zero with a slash, by the same token, probably leaves the
Scandanavian readers puzzled--as "oh" stroked is a letter of the
alphabet. Regardless, I stroked mine--a more universal practice might
have been to write zero with a horizontal or vertical stroke.
I recall turning in keypunch forms to be punched and receiving my job
back with a note saying "I didn't know if you meant zero or oh, so a did
some of both". Wastebasket meet card deck.
After that, I pretty much did all my own keypunching; management didn't
like that, but I persisted.
--Chuck
I wonder if in the original list, a '1'
was misread as a '7' or vice
versa. I am told that in some countries the '7' is conventionally
written with a crossbar across the downstroke to avoid this. My father
always did this, for all it is not common in England.
In Germany, we *always* write a bar across the 7. I don't like uncrossed
sevens because they are ugly ;-) and hard to distinguish from a 1. 
1:17 p.m.
The manual with the schematics was at the back part
of SY31-0405-3_IBM_5100_Maintenance_Information_Manual_Oct1979.pdf. PDF
page 299 has the keyboard schematic/diagram.
On Thu, Jun 17, 2021 at 4:15 PM Al Kossow via cctalk <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
wrote:
On 6/17/21 1:10 PM, Santo Nucifora via cctalk wrote:
One of the 5110's I acquired
had a full set of manuals but they were water damaged and the schematics
manual was one solid block of paper with all pages stuck
together
what was the part number of that manual?
1:55 p.m.
Al, I re-read your question and think you are referring to the manual I am
looking for. I don't have the part number but I think it might be this:
https://www.computerhistory.org/collections/catalog/102665239 What I had
was the " 5110 System Logic manual" that was a solid block. Sadly, I threw
it away after I spent some time trying to unravel it and failed.
Hope this helps,
Santo
On Thu, Jun 17, 2021 at 4:17 PM Santo Nucifora <santo.nucifora at gmail.com>
wrote:
The manual with the schematics was at the back part
of SY31-0405-3_IBM_5100_Maintenance_Information_Manual_Oct1979.pdf. PDF
page 299 has the keyboard schematic/diagram.
On Thu, Jun 17, 2021 at 4:15 PM Al Kossow via cctalk <
cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
> On 6/17/21 1:10 PM, Santo Nucifora via cctalk wrote:
> > One of the 5110's I acquired
> > had a full set of manuals but they were water damaged and the schematics
> > manual was one solid block of paper with all pages stuck
> > together
>
> what was the part number of that manual?
>
>
12 Jun
12 Jun
1:54 a.m.
On Fri, 11 Jun 2021, Santo Nucifora wrote:
I am currently working on an IBM 5100 that has some
issues. I know for
certain that the 5100 has a bad graphics controller card so I need to dig
into component level replacements for those ICs I can replace. I have a
list of logic chip equivalents to the IBM part numbers that are written on
the chips but I don't think it's 100% accurate because IBM part number
1582601 comes back as 74151 "DATA SEL/MUX" but when I use one of those
cheap logic chip testers (that is surprisingly accurate), it comes back as
a 74157. For the record, if I test a 74151, it comes back as a 74151 so the
tester is correct. I just want to make sure the table I have is accurate
and that the tester is not 100% accurate or if that chip has failed and
tests like a 74157 in it's state.
This is the current list I am using that I got from somewhere but I don't
recall where:
https://vintagecomputer.ca/ibm-vintage-logic-chip-equivalency-list/
Does anyone have an IBM logic chip equivalency table for 74 series logic
chips?
This list looks like a faulty transcription of my list here:
ftp://computermuseum.informatik.uni-stuttgart.de/ibm/ibmparts.txt
In my list, it is "1582601 74157 DATA SEL/MUX".
This list came from some IBM internal copies with unknown source.
Christian
4:01 a.m.
Thanks for that link Christian.
I've seen your list before but couldn't find it and the website I got this
transcribed list from is long gone. I'll check your list against what I
have and make sure the one I have posted is accurate and post a link to
yours, if that's okay.
Santo
On Sat, Jun 12, 2021 at 4:54 AM Christian Corti via cctalk <
cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
On Fri, 11 Jun 2021, Santo Nucifora wrote:
I am currently working on an IBM 5100 that has
some issues. I know for
certain that the 5100 has a bad graphics controller card so I need to dig
into component level replacements for those ICs I can replace. I have a
list of logic chip equivalents to the IBM part numbers that are written
on
the chips but I don't think it's 100%
accurate because IBM part number
1582601 comes back as 74151 "DATA SEL/MUX" but when I use one of those
cheap logic chip testers (that is surprisingly accurate), it comes back
as
a 74157. For the record, if I test a 74151, it
comes back as a 74151 so
the
tester is correct. I just want to make sure the
table I have is accurate
and that the tester is not 100% accurate or if that chip has failed and
tests like a 74157 in it's state.
This is the current list I am using that I got from somewhere but I don't
recall where:
https://vintagecomputer.ca/ibm-vintage-logic-chip-equivalency-list/
Does anyone have an IBM logic chip equivalency table for 74 series logic
chips?
This list looks like a faulty transcription of my list here:
ftp://computermuseum.informatik.uni-stuttgart.de/ibm/ibmparts.txt
In my list, it is "1582601 74157 DATA SEL/MUX".
This list came from some IBM internal copies with unknown source.
Christian
11:07 p.m.
Den l?r 12 juni 2021 kl 10:54 skrev Christian Corti via cctalk <
cctalk at classiccmp.org>:
On Fri, 11 Jun 2021, Santo Nucifora wrote:
Thanks for the list Christian!
I have a broken 5110 PSU here. Unfortunately it is not covering any of the
chips in the IBM 5110 Switch mode PSU.
There are three metal cans numbered 1582779, 1582780 and 1582781. 16 pin
types. Then there are four 361497 which I think is just three transistors
and some resistors (at least that is what a picture I have seen is
indicating). The latter type is 12 pin.
Anyone that has a clue what the 15827xx are?
https://i.imgur.com/MexGosO.jpg
/Mattis
I am currently working on an IBM 5100 that has
some issues. I know for
certain that the 5100 has a bad graphics controller card so I need to dig
into component level replacements for those ICs I can replace. I have a
list of logic chip equivalents to the IBM part numbers that are written
on
the chips but I don't think it's 100%
accurate because IBM part number
1582601 comes back as 74151 "DATA SEL/MUX" but when I use one of those
cheap logic chip testers (that is surprisingly accurate), it comes back
as
a 74157. For the record, if I test a 74151, it
comes back as a 74151 so
the
tester is correct. I just want to make sure the
table I have is accurate
and that the tester is not 100% accurate or if that chip has failed and
tests like a 74157 in it's state.
This is the current list I am using that I got from somewhere but I don't
recall where:
https://vintagecomputer.ca/ibm-vintage-logic-chip-equivalency-list/
Does anyone have an IBM logic chip equivalency table for 74 series logic
chips?
This list looks like a faulty transcription of my list here:
ftp://computermuseum.informatik.uni-stuttgart.de/ibm/ibmparts.txt
In my list, it is "1582601 74157 DATA SEL/MUX".
This list came from some IBM internal copies with unknown source.
Christian
1235
days inactive
1241
days old
14 comments
9 participants
participants (9)
-
aek＠bitsavers.org -
ard.p850ug1＠gmail.com -
cc＠informatik.uni-stuttgart.de -
cclist＠sydex.com -
cisin＠xenosoft.com -
elson＠pico-systems.com -
mattislind＠gmail.com -
phb.hfx＠gmail.com -
santo.nucifora＠gmail.com