29 Jun
2012
29 Jun
'12
2:11 a.m.
Hi,
This is a generic fixit for PowerPC Macs but always worth a try:
- Unplug the unit from the mains.
- Remove the NVRAM battery
- Leave to stand for *at least* 2-3 hours
- Power up
The issue is the NVRAM (referred to as PRAM on a Mac just to be
contrary) becomes corrupt as the battery runs down. If the machine has
been stood unused for a long time it may have this aforementioned
amnesia.
I have, however, heard a lot of sorry tales of PowerMac G5s suffering
all manner of weird problems with PSUs, leaking liquid coolers and
more. It's worth thoroughly checking the whole system over before
proceeding.
--
Mark Benson
http://markbenson.org/blog
http://twitter.com/MDBenson
29 Jun
29 Jun
2:32 a.m.
On Fri, Jun 29, 2012 at 10:11 AM, Mark Benson <md.benson at gmail.com> wrote:
Hi,
This is a generic fixit for PowerPC Macs but always worth a try:
- Unplug the unit from the mains.
- Remove the NVRAM battery
- Leave to stand for *at least* 2-3 hours
- Power up
The issue is the NVRAM (referred to as PRAM on a Mac just to be
contrary) becomes corrupt as the battery runs down. If the machine has
been stood unused for a long time it may have this aforementioned
amnesia.
I have, however, heard a lot of sorry tales of PowerMac G5s suffering
all manner of weird problems with PSUs, leaking liquid coolers and
more. It's worth thoroughly checking the whole system over before
proceeding.
Check the PRAM battery is good, and replace if necessary.
Yes, at the Mac shop, this made 98% of dead Macs come alive.
Apple got sued at the time, because the solution in the manual was
"replace the main board" for hundreds of dollars, instead of, replace
the PRAM battery, for seven dollars.
--
Yoyodyne Propulsion Systems: ?"The Future Begins Tomorrow"
Visit us at: http://www.yoyodyne-propulsion.net
--------
Doctor: You know when grownups tell you, "Everything's going to be
fine" and you think they're probably lying to make you feel better?
Amelia: Yeah.
Doctor: Everything's going to be fine.
3:48 a.m.
Thanks!
George
george at rachors.com
On Jun 29, 2012, at 2:32 AM, John Many Jars wrote:
On Fri, Jun 29, 2012 at 10:11 AM, Mark Benson
<md.benson at gmail.com> wrote:
Hi,
This is a generic fixit for PowerPC Macs but always worth a try:
- Unplug the unit from the mains.
- Remove the NVRAM battery
- Leave to stand for *at least* 2-3 hours
- Power up
The issue is the NVRAM (referred to as PRAM on a Mac just to be
contrary) becomes corrupt as the battery runs down. If the machine has
been stood unused for a long time it may have this aforementioned
amnesia.
I have, however, heard a lot of sorry tales of PowerMac G5s suffering
all manner of weird problems with PSUs, leaking liquid coolers and
more. It's worth thoroughly checking the whole system over before
proceeding.
Check the PRAM battery is good, and replace if necessary.
Yes, at the Mac shop, this made 98% of dead Macs come alive.
Apple got sued at the time, because the solution in the manual was
"replace the main board" for hundreds of dollars, instead of, replace
the PRAM battery, for seven dollars.
--
Yoyodyne Propulsion Systems: "The Future Begins Tomorrow"
Visit us at: http://www.yoyodyne-propulsion.net
--------
Doctor: You know when grownups tell you, "Everything's going to be
fine" and you think they're probably lying to make you feel better?
Amelia: Yeah.
Doctor: Everything's going to be fine.
4:12 a.m.
Hmmmm,,
I had pulled the battery for only a few minutes?..
I'm leaving the power unplugged and the battery out overnight?
Thanks folks!
George
On Jun 29, 2012, at 2:32 AM, John Many Jars wrote:
On Fri, Jun 29, 2012 at 10:11 AM, Mark Benson
<md.benson at gmail.com> wrote:
Hi,
This is a generic fixit for PowerPC Macs but always worth a try:
- Unplug the unit from the mains.
- Remove the NVRAM battery
- Leave to stand for *at least* 2-3 hours
- Power up
The issue is the NVRAM (referred to as PRAM on a Mac just to be
contrary) becomes corrupt as the battery runs down. If the machine has
been stood unused for a long time it may have this aforementioned
amnesia.
I have, however, heard a lot of sorry tales of PowerMac G5s suffering
all manner of weird problems with PSUs, leaking liquid coolers and
more. It's worth thoroughly checking the whole system over before
proceeding.
Check the PRAM battery is good, and replace if necessary.
Yes, at the Mac shop, this made 98% of dead Macs come alive.
Apple got sued at the time, because the solution in the manual was
"replace the main board" for hundreds of dollars, instead of, replace
the PRAM battery, for seven dollars.
--
Yoyodyne Propulsion Systems: "The Future Begins Tomorrow"
Visit us at: http://www.yoyodyne-propulsion.net
--------
Doctor: You know when grownups tell you, "Everything's going to be
fine" and you think they're probably lying to make you feel better?
Amelia: Yeah.
Doctor: Everything's going to be fine.
3:47 a.m.
Thanks Mark!
George
george at rachors.com
On Jun 29, 2012, at 2:11 AM, Mark Benson wrote:
Hi,
This is a generic fixit for PowerPC Macs but always worth a try:
- Unplug the unit from the mains.
- Remove the NVRAM battery
- Leave to stand for *at least* 2-3 hours
- Power up
The issue is the NVRAM (referred to as PRAM on a Mac just to be
contrary) becomes corrupt as the battery runs down. If the machine has
been stood unused for a long time it may have this aforementioned
amnesia.
I have, however, heard a lot of sorry tales of PowerMac G5s suffering
all manner of weird problems with PSUs, leaking liquid coolers and
more. It's worth thoroughly checking the whole system over before
proceeding.
--
Mark Benson
http://markbenson.org/blog
http://twitter.com/MDBenson
30 Jun
30 Jun
1:33 a.m.
Well I left the unit unplugged and the battery removed for about 20 hours.
The symptom has now changed.
-- The battery is still out.
1. I still hear the relays click when plugging in power.
2. Now there is no activity at all when pressing the front panel power switch.
Starting to sound like power supply?
George
george at rachors.com
On Jun 29, 2012, at 3:47 AM, George Rachor wrote:
Thanks Mark!
George
george at rachors.com
On Jun 29, 2012, at 2:11 AM, Mark Benson wrote:
Hi,
This is a generic fixit for PowerPC Macs but always worth a try:
- Unplug the unit from the mains.
- Remove the NVRAM battery
- Leave to stand for *at least* 2-3 hours
- Power up
The issue is the NVRAM (referred to as PRAM on a Mac just to be
contrary) becomes corrupt as the battery runs down. If the machine has
been stood unused for a long time it may have this aforementioned
amnesia.
I have, however, heard a lot of sorry tales of PowerMac G5s suffering
all manner of weird problems with PSUs, leaking liquid coolers and
more. It's worth thoroughly checking the whole system over before
proceeding.
--
Mark Benson
http://markbenson.org/blog
http://twitter.com/MDBenson
3:35 a.m.
Check that?.
After a few minutes plugged in.. (Battery still remove) we have gone back to the original
systems. led flashes on while power button is depressed, The fans start briefly then slow
back down. I hear the disk drive start but no other activity?
Back to square one?
George
On Jun 30, 2012, at 1:33 AM, George Rachor wrote:
Well I left the unit unplugged and the battery removed
for about 20 hours.
The symptom has now changed.
-- The battery is still out.
1. I still hear the relays click when plugging in power.
2. Now there is no activity at all when pressing the front panel power switch.
Starting to sound like power supply?
George
george at rachors.com
On Jun 29, 2012, at 3:47 AM, George Rachor wrote:
Thanks Mark!
George
george at rachors.com
On Jun 29, 2012, at 2:11 AM, Mark Benson wrote:
Hi,
This is a generic fixit for PowerPC Macs but always worth a try:
- Unplug the unit from the mains.
- Remove the NVRAM battery
- Leave to stand for *at least* 2-3 hours
- Power up
The issue is the NVRAM (referred to as PRAM on a Mac just to be
contrary) becomes corrupt as the battery runs down. If the machine has
been stood unused for a long time it may have this aforementioned
amnesia.
I have, however, heard a lot of sorry tales of PowerMac G5s suffering
all manner of weird problems with PSUs, leaking liquid coolers and
more. It's worth thoroughly checking the whole system over before
proceeding.
--
Mark Benson
http://markbenson.org/blog
http://twitter.com/MDBenson
2 Jul
2 Jul
9:41 a.m.
After a few minutes plugged in.. (Battery still
remove) we have gone back
to the original systems. led flashes on while power button is depressed,
The fans start briefly then slow back down. I hear the disk drive start
but no other activity_
Check the processor module.
--
------------------------------------ personal: http://www.cameronkaiser.com/ --
Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * ckaiser at floodgap.com
-- I don't care who you are, stop walking on the water when I'm fishing!
<>< --
4 Jul
4 Jul
6:06 a.m.
Cameron?
The machine has 2.. Shall I try removing one at a time?
George
On Jul 2, 2012, at 9:41 AM, Cameron Kaiser wrote:
After a few
minutes plugged in.. (Battery still remove) we have gone back
to the original systems. led flashes on while power button is depressed,
The fans start briefly then slow back down. I hear the disk drive start
but no other activity_
Check the processor module.
--
------------------------------------ personal: http://www.cameronkaiser.com/ --
Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * ckaiser at floodgap.com
-- I don't care who you are, stop walking on the water when I'm fishing!
<>< --
9:04 a.m.
Cameron
The machine has 2.. Shall I try removing one at a time?
Which specific model of G5 is this?
--
------------------------------------ personal: http://www.cameronkaiser.com/ --
Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * ckaiser at floodgap.com
-- Either he's dead, or my watch has stopped. -- Groucho Marx -----------------
30 Jun
30 Jun
10:26 p.m.
Starting to sound like power supply?
Yup.
--
------------------------------------ personal: http://www.cameronkaiser.com/ --
Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * ckaiser at floodgap.com
-- The world is not enough. ---------------------------------------------------
29 Jun
29 Jun
7:45 a.m.
At 10:11 AM +0100 6/29/12, Mark Benson wrote:
I have, however, heard a lot of sorry tales of PowerMac
G5s suffering
all manner of weird problems with PSUs, leaking liquid coolers and
more. It's worth thoroughly checking the whole system over before
proceeding.
My Rev.0 Dual 2Ghz PowerMac G5 had more problems than even my DEC PWS 433au.
The G5 had a dead onboard NIC about 3 years before I retired it, and
in the end it wouldn't boot except in standalone mode (whatever you
call that on the Mac). Thankfully it reached this point just after
the late-2010 model was released (I was waiting for that to replace
it).
I ran the DEC PWS 433au for several years with a dead PCI slot, and
eventually replaced it with an XP1000/667.
I think something to consider with systems such as these is they
aren't built to the standards of computers in the 80's.
Realistically they are intended to last about 3 years and be
replaced. Those of us running Mac's (at least the people I know
around here) tend to make them last a lot longer. Those of us
running OpenVMS have it even worse.
Zane
--
| Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator |
| healyzh at aracnet.com | OpenVMS Enthusiast |
| | Photographer |
+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
| My flickr Photostream |
| http://www.flickr.com/photos/33848088 at N03/ |
9:32 a.m.
I have,
however, heard a lot of sorry tales of PowerMac G5s suffering
all manner of weird problems with PSUs, leaking liquid coolers and
more. It's worth thoroughly checking the whole system over before
proceeding.
My Rev.0 Dual 2Ghz PowerMac G5 had more problems than even my DEC PWS 433au.
10:01 a.m.
On 29 Jun 2012, at 17:32, Cameron Kaiser wrote:
Those generation of G5s weren't too flash, and the liquid cooled ones were
worse.
Apple worked out most of these bugs by the time the quad G5 came out, which
is the one I own and has been rendering sterling service for close to seven
years. But like every G5, it's hot and power hungry.
G5 systems have a notorious reputation and I can't say it's undeserved.
I'll second that,. I've heard higher-than-anecdotal levels of complaints about the
CPU modules (especially the liquid cooled ones) over the years, as well as a few other
things dying.
I postulate that the thermal loads on the components inside that alloy oven, especially on
dual-CPU models, are high enough that the effect is derogatory to the longevity of some of
the models lifespan.
--
Mark Benson
http://DECtec.info
Twitter: @DECtecInfo
HECnet: STAR69::MARK
Online Resource & Mailing List for DEC Enthusiasts.
I have, however, heard a lot of sorry tales of
PowerMac G5s suffering
all manner of weird problems with PSUs, leaking liquid coolers and
more. It's worth thoroughly checking the whole system over before
proceeding.
My Rev.0 Dual 2Ghz PowerMac G5 had more problems than even my DEC PWS 433au. 
10:53 a.m.
New subject: PM 6100/60, was: Powermac G5 won't start
My apologies for tagging along, but there seems to be a few people
who know about these PPC beasts.
I've got an old Performa 6100/60 (the first Power Mac if I read my
Apple history right0. It boots and seems to run just fine, but
there's no sound--nothing, not even the power-on chimes. Control
panel says that nothing's muted and the volume is up full.
The PRAM battery is new; I was able to check that the speaker and
audio amplifier work by injecting a small signal into its input.
Beyond that, it seems to be Apple proprietary VLSI or custom chips
from other manufacturers.
Does anyone have a clue? I'd refer to my 6100 schematics and chip
datasheets, but of course, there are none. Apple's "if it doesn'''t
work, buy a new one" philosophy, I guess.
--Chuck
11:19 a.m.
New subject: PM 6100/60, was: Powermac G5 won't start
On 29 Jun 2012 at 11:06, Al Kossow wrote:
On 6/29/12 10:53 AM, Chuck Guzis wrote:
No shorts or opens as far as I can tell (not easy visually, as these
are the SMT "cans"). PSU checks out, video looks fine.
--Chuck
Does anyone have a clue?
Electrolytics look OK? 
11:44 a.m.
New subject: TI Microexplorer Mac II on ebay
Too bad the important bits are missing but, I know how some of you out
there love collecting the LISP related stuff. Maybe you could contact
the seller and see if they can find them.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Apple-Macintosh-II-M5000-Vintage-Mac-Desktop-Comput…
Here's a quick description
http://www.jester.org/Projects/microExplorer/microexplorer.html
12:04 p.m.
New subject: TI Microexplorer Mac II on ebay
----- Original Message -----
From: "mc68010" <mc68010 at gmail.com>
To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"
<cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Sent: Friday, June 29, 2012 2:44 PM
Subject: TI Microexplorer Mac II on ebay
Too bad the important bits are missing but, I know how
some of you out
there love collecting the LISP related stuff. Maybe you could contact the
seller and see if they can find them.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Apple-Macintosh-II-M5000-Vintage-Mac-Desktop-Comput…
Here's a quick description
http://www.jester.org/Projects/microExplorer/microexplorer.html
Totally gutted, if you want to save money ask the seller to ship just the TI
sticker. ;)
12:16 p.m.
New subject: TI Microexplorer Mac II on ebay
On 6/29/2012 12:04 PM, TeoZ wrote:
Totally gutted, if you want to save money ask the seller to ship just
the TI sticker. ;)
Well Mac II aren't exactly common anymore. Of course, that one doesn't
even work and I can guess it is probably because of leaking caps all
over the motherboard.
Used to be all the old Mac stuff I ran into worked fine when found. Now
it never does. Those caps were basically a ticking time bomb and time is
now up. I don't have a single old Mac that doesn't need multiple caps
replaced now. I am terrible at surface mount stuff too. Drink way too
much coffee to deal with things like that.
3:51 p.m.
New subject: TI Microexplorer Mac II on ebay
----- Original Message -----
From: "mc68010" <mc68010 at gmail.com>
To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"
<cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Sent: Friday, June 29, 2012 3:16 PM
Subject: Re: TI Microexplorer Mac II on ebay
On 6/29/2012 12:04 PM, TeoZ wrote:
No Mac II's are not that common, quite a few were converted to IIfx machines
with a motherboard swap. Leaking capacitors might be an issue (I had to redo
all 3 of my IIx boards) but I would bet the problem is because the PRAM
batteries are dead. Even if the boards need recapped it is not that hard to
do (compared to a Classic II where everything is crammed close together).
The problem with that auction is there are no 800K floppy drives (which are
hard to get these days), all the cards are gone (you need to have a video
card on that model), and you are missing the HD. I would guess somebody
wanted the guts and software but didn't want to pay to ship the whole unit.
Totally gutted, if you want to save money ask the seller to ship just the
TI sticker. ;)
Well Mac II aren't exactly common anymore. Of course, that one doesn't
even work and I can guess it is probably because of leaking caps all over
the motherboard.
Used to be all the old Mac stuff I ran into worked fine when found. Now it
never does. Those caps were basically a ticking time bomb and time is now
up. I don't have a single old Mac that doesn't need multiple caps replaced
now. I am terrible at surface mount stuff too. Drink way too much coffee
to deal with things like that.
1 Jul
1 Jul
8:16 p.m.
New subject: TI Microexplorer Mac II on ebay
________________________________
From: TeoZ <teoz at neo.rr.com>
The problem with that auction is there are no 800K floppy drives (which are hard to get
these days), all the cards are gone (you need to have a video card on that model), and you
are missing the HD. I would guess somebody wanted the guts and software but didn't
want to pay to ship the whole unit.
C: Why would you want 800k drives? The 1.44 mb superdrives read all the old formats. Video
cards aren't that uncommon (had a few, but somebody tossed a bunch of my stuff out).
SCSC h/d's are easy enough to find.
?Good to hear I'll be able to bring my old IIx and IIcx back to life. Just capacitors,
and big electrolytics I think too.
8:32 p.m.
New subject: TI Microexplorer Mac II on ebay
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Tofu" <rampaginggreenhulk at yahoo.com>
To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"
<cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Sent: Sunday, July 01, 2012 11:16 PM
Subject: Re: TI Microexplorer Mac II on ebay
"C: Why would you want 800k drives? The 1.44 mb superdrives read all the old
formats. Video cards aren't that uncommon (had a few, but somebody tossed a
bunch of my stuff out). SCSC h/d's are easy enough to find.
Good to hear I'll be able to bring my old IIx and IIcx back to life. Just
capacitors, and big electrolytics I think too."
The Mac II can only use 800K drives, you need a IIx or newer for
Superdrives.
While I have stacks of Nubus cards and SCSI drives most people don't,
finding them now is much harder (or more expensive) then it was for me 10
years ago.
Reworking the old Aluminum metal can capacitors will revive a system IF the
leaking goo hasn't destroyed anything on the board. I have a dead 840AV that
has other issues then just capacitors, but have fixed many other systems
that didn't have other damage.
P.S. The ROM SIMM on a IIx might need removed and cleaned if the machine
doesn't boot (after you replace the batteries and capacitors as needed).
8:54 p.m.
New subject: TI Microexplorer Mac II on ebay
________________________________
From: TeoZ <teoz at neo.rr.com>
P.S. The ROM SIMM on a IIx might? need removed and cleaned if the machine doesn't boot
(after you replace the batteries and capacitors as needed).
Where can you find the right battery?
?
And incidentally what would it take to upgrade a II to utilize superdirves. Heck I thought
my SE had one, but I'm not positive. Is it simply a rom upgrade, or is it a function
of the hardware?
9:07 p.m.
New subject: TI Microexplorer Mac II on ebay
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Tofu" <rampaginggreenhulk at yahoo.com>
To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"
<cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Sent: Sunday, July 01, 2012 11:54 PM
Subject: Re: TI Microexplorer Mac II on ebay
________________________________
"Where can you find the right battery?
And incidentally what would it take to upgrade a II to utilize superdirves.
Heck I thought my SE had one, but I'm not positive. Is it simply a rom
upgrade, or is it a function of the hardware?"
The floppy controller chip is what needs changed on the SE, not sure if the
one on the II is solderd on or removable ( I don't own a Mac II).
The batteries (2 needed) for the II are 3.6V 1/2AA axial leads (soldered to
the motherboard unless it has been modified). New model IIx/IIfx etc have
socketed batteries.
2 Jul
2 Jul
10:01 a.m.
New subject: TI Microexplorer Mac II on ebay
On Jun 29, 2012, at 21:04 , TeoZ wrote:
----- Original Message ----- From: "mc68010" <mc68010 at gmail.com>
To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at
classiccmp.org>
Sent: Friday, June 29, 2012 2:44 PM
Subject: TI Microexplorer Mac II on ebay
Interesting... I have a TI microExplorer set in a Mac IIcx (or possibly IIci)... I
don't have the sticker, though :-)
I bought the board set in 2001 for the princely sum of $3 + sales tax - $3.24 in total,
and the nice people at Weird Stuff Warehouse even gave me a big anti-static bag for it.
Too bad the important bits are missing but, I
know how some of you out there love collecting the LISP related stuff. Maybe you could
contact the seller and see if they can find them.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Apple-Macintosh-II-M5000-Vintage-Mac-Desktop-Comput…
Here's a quick description
http://www.jester.org/Projects/microExplorer/microexplorer.html
Totally gutted, if you want to save money ask the seller to ship just the TI sticker. ;)
7:02 p.m.
New subject: TI Microexplorer Mac II on ebay
On 7/2/2012 10:01 AM, Raymond Wiker wrote:
Interesting... I have a TI microExplorer set in a Mac IIcx (or possibly IIci)... I
don't have the sticker, though :-)
I bought the board set in 2001 for the princely sum of $3 + sales tax - $3.24 in total,
and the nice people at Weird Stuff Warehouse even gave me a big anti-static bag for it.
So jealous :). I've been looking for one of those for years (or any TI
Lisp Machine, for that matter). I'll give you $6 for it :).
- Josh
29 Jun
29 Jun
12:06 p.m.
New subject: PM 6100/60, was: Powermac G5 won't start
On 29 Jun 2012, at 19:19, Chuck Guzis wrote:
On 29 Jun 2012 at 11:06, Al Kossow wrote:
Do you get sound from the external speaker port on the back?
--
Mark Benson
http://DECtec.info
Twitter: @DECtecInfo
HECnet: STAR69::MARK
Online Resource & Mailing List for DEC Enthusiasts.
On 6/29/12 10:53 AM, Chuck Guzis wrote:
No shorts or opens as far as I can tell (not easy visually, as these
are the SMT "cans"). PSU checks out, video looks fine. Does anyone have a clue?
Electrolytics look OK?
30 Jun
30 Jun
1:51 a.m.
New subject: PM 6100/60, was: Powermac G5 won't start
On 30 Jun 2012, at 02:38, Chuck Guzis wrote:
On 29 Jun 2012 at 20:06, Mark Benson wrote:
Hmm... Try a PRAM Reset. Reboot the machine holding down Command(Apple)-Option(Alt)-P-R
Do it 4 or 5 times for safety. It might just be the volume setting int he PRAM is
confused.
If that doesn't fix it it's almost certainly a failure in the audio section on the
board, possibly a blown cap something similar.
--
Mark Benson
http://DECtec.info
Twitter: @DECtecInfo
HECnet: STAR69::MARK
Online Resource & Mailing List for DEC Enthusiasts.
Do you get sound from the external speaker port
on the back?
No, that's dead silent as well.
2:28 p.m.
New subject: PM 6100/60, was: Powermac G5 won't start
On 30 Jun 2012 at 9:51, Mark Benson wrote:
Hmm... Try a PRAM Reset. Reboot the machine holding
down
Command(Apple)-Option(Alt)-P-R
Is something supposed to happen if I do that? I must have performed
that at least half a dozen times and the system just boots to
"Welcome to Macintosh" each time without any acknowledgement that I
had any keys pressed. I also left the PRAM battery out of its socket
overnight as a preliminary measure.
Okay, so if it's a capacitor, is it likely to be one of the SMT cans
or one of the rectangular SMT tantalums? What area of the board
(quadrant) is most likely to have the failing component? Can you
furnish any component designators?
Apple service guides won't even tell you what the various LSI chips
do, much less their pinouts or specifications. The "if it doesn't
work, thow it away" mentality of Apple that I love so much...
Thanks,
Chuck
2:37 p.m.
New subject: PM 6100/60, was: Powermac G5 won't start
On Jun 30, 2012, at 4:28 PM, Chuck Guzis wrote:
On 30 Jun 2012 at 9:51, Mark Benson wrote:
Normally, it would make a bong sound each reboot, but if it is getting the the booting
screen, it is not receiving the keypress/not acting on it. You sure on the C-O+P+R key
combo?
Can you get into open firmware as others have suggested?
Hmm... Try a PRAM Reset. Reboot the machine
holding down
Command(Apple)-Option(Alt)-P-R
Is something supposed to happen if I do that? I must have performed
that at least half a dozen times and the system just boots to
"Welcome to Macintosh" each time without any acknowledgement that I
had any keys pressed. I also left the PRAM battery out of its socket
overnight as a preliminary measure.
Okay, so if it's a capacitor, is it likely to be
one of the SMT cans
or one of the rectangular SMT tantalums? What area of the board
(quadrant) is most likely to have the failing component? Can you
furnish any component designators?
Apple service guides won't even tell you what the various LSI chips
do, much less their pinouts or specifications. The "if it doesn't
work, thow it away" mentality of Apple that I love so much?
And this is different than a PC motherboard how? Let me (reliably) reflow that BGA
that I can buy where? Data sheet?
Thanks,
Chuck
3:36 p.m.
New subject: PM 6100/60, was: Powermac G5 won't start
On 30 Jun 2012 at 16:37, Ryan Brooks wrote:
Normally, it would make a bong sound each reboot, but
if it is getting
the the booting screen, it is not receiving the keypress/not acting on
it. You sure on the C-O+P+R key combo?
With cmd+option+p+r pressed, the screen cycles between grey and
black. When released, the "Welcome to Macintosh" boot screen comes
up. But nothing happens, otherwise--the speaker is still silent.
Can you get into open firmware as others have
suggested?
Well, you have me there. I didn't think that NuBus Macs had open
firmware. At any rate Cmd+option+O+F is completely ignored. But if
there's Open Firmware on that machine, I'd appreciate knowing how to
get to it.
And this is different than a PC motherboard how?
Let me
(reliably) reflow that BGA that I can buy where? Data sheet?
I can find datasheets for most PC chipsets of the 6100's vintage
(1994) and at least know what signals to look for. On the Apple, not
so much. I don't replace BGAs (but I know people who do) but I have
replaced QFPs without serious issues--and the ones on the 6100 aren't
particularly fine-pitch, so they should be a walk in the park to
change.
So where are the Apple datasheets on the 4 largish 124-pin QFPs on
the 6100? Surely, Apple can't be worried about IP on a nearly 20
year old design...
--Chuck
6:49 p.m.
New subject: PM 6100/60, was: Powermac G5 won't start
On Jun 30, 2012, at 18:36, "Chuck Guzis" <cclist at sydex.com> wrote:
Finding someone who knows where to dig up that data is a significant challenge. I'm
given to understand that the internal chips weren't always even all that well
documented; I have a document dump on the SWIM 2 and 3 chips that in places are little
more than scrawled notes. Al may have some insight.
- Dave
On 30 Jun 2012 at 16:37, Ryan Brooks wrote:
They do not. My recollection is that the early Power Macs were essentially a port of their
corresponding Quadra architectures (610, 650 and 800) to PowerPC, with relatively little
modification save a bus adaptor.
Can you get into open firmware as others have
suggested?
Well, you have me there. I didn't think that NuBus Macs had open
firmware. At any rate Cmd+option+O+F is completely ignored. But
if
there's Open Firmware on that machine, I'd appreciate knowing how to
get to it.
Out of luck in that respect, unfortunately.
And this is
different than a PC motherboard how? Let me
(reliably) reflow that BGA that I can buy where? Data sheet?
I can find datasheets for most PC chipsets of the 6100's vintage
(1994) and at least know what signals to look for. On the Apple, not
so much. I don't replace BGAs (but I know people who do) but I have
replaced QFPs without serious issues--and the ones on the 6100 aren't
particularly fine-pitch, so they should be a walk in the park to
change.
So where are the Apple datasheets on the 4 largish 124-pin QFPs on
the 6100? Surely, Apple can't be worried about IP on a nearly 20
year old design... 
8:11 p.m.
New subject: PM 6100/60, was: Powermac G5 won't start
On 6/30/12 6:49 PM, David Riley wrote:
I'm given to understand that the internal chips
weren't always even all that well documented; I have a document dump on the SWIM 2 and
3 chips that in places are little more than scrawled notes. Al may have some insight.
The four ASICs in the first generation PPC was the HMC which handles DRAM and Cache, AMIC,
which interfaces to the I/O devices, two data
path parts which also generates cycle stealing video, and the optional NuBus controller,
which isn't on the 6100. There are several 8k
sound buffers in AMIC which are serially clocked to AWACS (pn 343S0140), which is the
sound codec chip.
It was also the first 16 bit sound part Apple used. AWACS was made by Crystal
Semiconductor.
Bit clock is pin 42, sync is pin 43 and data in is pin 44. Headphone out L,R,Common pins
27,25,28 Speaker out L,R,Common pins 29,31,30
9:50 p.m.
New subject: PM 6100/60, was: Powermac G5 won't start
On 30 Jun 2012 at 20:11, Al Kossow wrote:
Apple used. AWACS was made by Crystal Semiconductor.
Bit clock is pin
42, sync is pin 43 and data in is pin 44. Headphone out L,R,Common
pins 27,25,28 Speaker out L,R,Common pins 29,31,30
Is that the 44 pin PLCC labeled CS4217-KL with the Crystal logo on
it? I was wondering about it--a datasheet didn't turn up, but I
easily found datasheets for the CS4216 and CS4218, whose pinouts seem
to be a country mile from the 4217.
If so, it's a start and I may be able to figure something out from
that.
--Chuck
11:17 p.m.
New subject: PM 6100/60, was: Powermac G5 won't start
On 6/30/12 9:50 PM, Chuck Guzis wrote:
On 30 Jun 2012 at 20:11, Al Kossow wrote:
looks like there are some on ebay
http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-CRYSTAL-CS4217-KL-EP-IC-16-BIT-MULTIMEIDA-STEREO-…
Apple used. AWACS was made by Crystal
Semiconductor. Bit clock is pin
42, sync is pin 43 and data in is pin 44. Headphone out L,R,Common
pins 27,25,28 Speaker out L,R,Common pins 29,31,30
Is that the 44 pin PLCC labeled CS4217-KL with the Crystal logo on
it? I was wondering about it--a datasheet didn't turn up, but I
easily found datasheets for the CS4216 and CS4218, whose pinouts seem
to be a country mile from the 4217.
11:52 p.m.
New subject: PM 6100/60, was: Powermac G5 won't start
On 30 Jun 2012 at 23:17, Al Kossow wrote:
looks like there are some on ebay
http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-CRYSTAL-CS4217-KL-EP-IC-16-BIT-MULTIMEIDA-ST
EREO-AUDIO-CODED-22-PIN-PLCC-/140606850353
I'll keep that in mind if some 'scope work shows that to be the
problem.
Thanks,
Chuck
7:13 p.m.
New subject: PM 6100/60, was: Powermac G5 won't start
On 30/06/12 6:36 PM, Chuck Guzis wrote:
On 30 Jun 2012 at 16:37, Ryan Brooks wrote:
They don't. It arrived with New World Macs.
--Toby
Normally, it would make a bong sound each reboot,
but if it is getting
the the booting screen, it is not receiving the keypress/not acting on
it. You sure on the C-O+P+R key combo?
With cmd+option+p+r pressed, the screen cycles between grey and
black. When released, the "Welcome to Macintosh" boot screen comes
up. But nothing happens, otherwise--the speaker is still silent.
Can you get into open firmware as others have
suggested?
Well, you have me there. I didn't think that NuBus Macs had open
firmware.
10:22 p.m.
New subject: PM 6100/60, was: Powermac G5 won't start
Can you get into open firmware as others have
suggested?
Well, you have me there. I didn't think that NuBus Macs had open
firmware.
1 Jul
1 Jul
6:27 a.m.
New subject: PM 6100/60, was: Powermac G5 won't start
On 01/07/12 1:22 AM, Cameron Kaiser wrote:
They don't. It arrived with New World Macs.
Actually, it started with the beige PCI Macs, which were Old World. However,
New World OpenFirmware is considerably less buggy.
Yeah I was trying to think of exceptions, forgot about those platypi.
--Toby
Can you get
into open firmware as others have suggested?
Well, you have me there. I didn't think that NuBus Macs had open
firmware. 
12:52 p.m.
New subject: PM 6100/60, was: Powermac G5 won't start
Okay, so if it's a capacitor, is it likely to be
one of the SMT cans
or one of the rectangular SMT tantalums? What area of the board
(quadrant) is most likely to have the failing component? Can you
furnish any component designators?
Apple service guides won't even tell you what the various LSI chips
do, much less their pinouts or specifications. The "if it doesn't
work, thow it away" mentality of Apple that I love so much...
I'vm supposed ot be the one who moans that serice manuals are useless
now, that schematics don't exist and that board-swapping is evil. Are you
after my job :-)
Mroe seriosuly, can you name a present-day computer where the
manufactuers do supply schemmaitcs, dater on ASCIs, and the like? I have
no love whatesocer of Apple products, but they are no worse (or better)
than anyone else in this respect.
-tony
2 Jul
2 Jul
9:49 a.m.
New subject: PM 6100/60, was: Powermac G5 won't start
On Jun 30, 2012, at 10:51 , Mark Benson wrote:
On 30 Jun 2012, at 02:38, Chuck Guzis wrote:
There is also something called a PMU or CUDA reset button somewhere on the motherboard,
which may be a last-resort option. You need to be careful about pressing this as it should
not be pressed more than once (I vaguely remember something about possibly damaging the
motehrboard if you press it more than once).
I had a PowerMac G5 which just died after being switched off for a couple of weeks while I
was on holiday. As it was bought in Norway, it was covered by a 5 year warranty
("reklamasjonsrett"), so an Apple authorized repair centre spent a lot of time
and spare parts trying to get it working again. They eventually gave up, and Apple gave me
a brand new Mac Pro as a replacement. A happy ending, but it completely soured me on the
G5 PowerMacs.
On 29 Jun 2012 at 20:06, Mark Benson wrote:
Hmm... Try a PRAM Reset. Reboot the machine holding down Command(Apple)-Option(Alt)-P-R
Do it 4 or 5 times for safety. It might just be the volume setting int he PRAM is
confused.
If that doesn't fix it it's almost certainly a failure in the audio section on
the board, possibly a blown cap something similar. Do you get sound from the external speaker port
on the back?
No, that's dead silent as well.
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