1 Nov
2005
1 Nov
'05
2:18 p.m.
Subject: Re: OT: Lowest-power small server solutions
Date: Tue, 01 Nov 2005 16:09:01 +0000
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts <cctalk at
classiccmp.org>
Chuck Guzis wrote:
> This may be appropriate for another list, but it seems to me that there's
> plenty of applicable knowledge here.
>
> Right now, we're using an older Compaq Deskpro P3-600 box as our incoming
> Linux server. Basically, it connects with the DSL modem and contains IP
> masquerading, DNS caching, firewall and fetchmail/procmail/qmail tasks
> (SpamAssassin included). It runs 24x7 with no problem, as it has for the
> last 5 or 6 years. Built like a tank.
I wonder if you even need a P200 for that. I used to manage a
networks that had a 486dx/66 doing all but SpamaAssassin. For the rate it
had to handle on the DSL port (actually fractional T1 256kb/S) it never
seemed to be working hard. The PS in it was only 200W and nowhere was
it ever stressed. It's claim to fame was running at room temp over a
weekend in the summer with both PS and CPU fan siezed without melting
or even getting upset.
Also an older 500mb-1gb drive will use less power than a newer fast
spinning drive. Or better yet netboot it and only keep a floppy. Pull
all the IO you don't need and run the video at 640x480x256 as a further
power reduction. Use a monitor (or KVM switch) as you don't need
a monitor save to check on it.
Allison
1 Nov
1 Nov
2:26 p.m.
Allison wrote:
Indeed. I have a Pentium 150 doing all the above (including
SpamAssassin) plus Squid.
Peace... Sridhar
>This may be
appropriate for another list, but it seems to me that there's
>plenty of applicable knowledge here.
>
>Right now, we're using an older Compaq Deskpro P3-600 box as our incoming
>Linux server. Basically, it connects with the DSL modem and contains IP
>masquerading, DNS caching, firewall and fetchmail/procmail/qmail tasks
>(SpamAssassin included). It runs 24x7 with no problem, as it has for the
>last 5 or 6 years. Built like a tank.
I wonder if you even need a P200 for that. I used to manage a
networks that had a 486dx/66 doing all but SpamaAssassin. For the rate it
had to handle on the DSL port (actually fractional T1 256kb/S) it never
seemed to be working hard. The PS in it was only 200W and nowhere was
it ever stressed. It's claim to fame was running at room temp over a
weekend in the summer with both PS and CPU fan siezed without melting
or even getting upset. 
2:20 p.m.
I wonder if you even need a P200 for that. I
used to manage a
networks that had a 486dx/66 doing all but SpamaAssassin. For the rate it
had to handle on the DSL port (actually fractional T1 256kb/S) it never
seemed to be working hard. The PS in it was only 200W and nowhere was
it ever stressed. It's claim to fame was running at room temp over a
weekend in the summer with both PS and CPU fan siezed without melting
or even getting upset.
Indeed. I have a Pentium 150 doing all the above (including
SpamAssassin) plus Squid. 
2:41 p.m.
On 11/1/2005 at 2:26 PM Sridhar Ayengar wrote:
Indeed. I have a Pentium 150 doing all the above
(including
SpamAssassin) plus Squid.
I've also got RealPlayer broadcasting the BBC on the same box, so maybe a
150 might be a bit underpowered. The Compaq replaced an old HP Vectra
PI-166 tower that I gave up on after it kept choking on disks larger than 8
GB. But the Vectra was a great old machine with no ugly little CPU cooling
fan...
Cheers,
Chuck
5:54 p.m.
Chuck Guzis wrote:
On 11/1/2005 at 2:26 PM Sridhar Ayengar wrote:
You might want to look at a Soekris system. www.soekris.com
They're not the right answer for every need, but they're some of the
slickest x86 systems I've ever seen.
Doc
Indeed. I have a Pentium 150 doing all the above
(including
SpamAssassin) plus Squid.
I've also got RealPlayer broadcasting the BBC on the same box, so maybe a
150 might be a bit underpowered. The Compaq replaced an old HP Vectra
PI-166 tower that I gave up on after it kept choking on disks larger than 8
GB. But the Vectra was a great old machine with no ugly little CPU cooling
fan... 
3:33 p.m.
>>>> "Allison" == Allison
<ajp166 at bellatlantic.net> writes:
Allison> Also an older 500mb-1gb drive will use less power than a
Allison> newer fast spinning drive. Or better yet netboot it and only
Allison> keep a floppy. Pull all the IO you don't need and run the
Allison> video at 640x480x256 as a further power reduction. Use a
Allison> monitor (or KVM switch) as you don't need a monitor save to
Allison> check on it.
Good comments. My wirewall etc. is a Linux box, 486/66, with a 400 MB
drive. No other I/O, no floppy, it boots from the hard drive.
The one drawback is that the drive is so old it doesn't support
software controlled spindown, so it spins all the time. That may
actually help its reliability... but I've been meaning to change it.
Perhaps I'll replace it with my old HP desktop that ate two CDROMs in
a row (which still work fine on other machines).
paul
10:33 p.m.
We've done several headless 'embedded' systems using the via micro boards
and been quite happy with them. Perfect for the kind of application you
describe.
Jay
8:38 p.m.
On Tue, 01 Nov 2005 14:18:00 -0500
Allison <ajp166 at bellatlantic.net> wrote:
I am in the middle of replacing the battery in a NVRAM on a Sparc IPC that I plan to use
as a router/firewall. I bought a retail copy (gotta support the effort every few years by
doing so) of OpenBSD that's now running on it. The small 'lunchbox' Sparcs
are perfect for such a role, with a second ethernet port on an SBUS card. It's a
rather light-duty Sparc, but by running on a fairly foreign architecture instead of a
common Intel box I'll miss out on all but the most determined crackers.
Any suggestions of a better battery (cheaper, mostly) to 'strap on' to Sun NVRAMs?
I am going to use AAA lithiums on this machine, which should last forever, but
they're a bit pricey.
--
http://sasteven.multics.org/MacSE30/MacSE30.html
Subject: Re: OT: Lowest-power small server solutions
Date: Tue, 01 Nov 2005 16:09:01 +0000
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts <cctalk at
classiccmp.org>
Chuck Guzis wrote:
> This may be appropriate for another list, but it seems to me that there's
> plenty of applicable knowledge here.
>
> Right now, we're using an older Compaq Deskpro P3-600 box as our incoming
> Linux server. Basically, it connects with the DSL modem and contains IP
> masquerading, DNS caching, firewall and fetchmail/procmail/qmail tasks
> (SpamAssassin included). It runs 24x7 with no problem, as it has for the
> last 5 or 6 years. Built like a tank.
I wonder if you even need a P200 for that. I used to manage a
networks that had a 486dx/66 doing all but SpamaAssassin. For the rate it
had to handle on the DSL port (actually fractional T1 256kb/S) it never
seemed to be working hard. The PS in it was only 200W and nowhere was
it ever stressed. It's claim to fame was running at room temp over a
weekend in the summer with both PS and CPU fan siezed without melting
or even getting upset.
Also an older 500mb-1gb drive will use less power than a newer fast
spinning drive. Or better yet netboot it and only keep a floppy. Pull
all the IO you don't need and run the video at 640x480x256 as a further
power reduction. Use a monitor (or KVM switch) as you don't need
a monitor save to check on it.
2 Nov
2 Nov
11:42 a.m.
On 11/1/2005 at 8:38 PM Scott Stevens wrote:
Any suggestions of a better battery (cheaper, mostly)
to 'strap on' to Sun
NVRAMs? I am going to use AAA lithiums on this machine, which should last
forever, but they're a bit pricey.
Why not just some plain old AA alkalines? You should get a couple of years
(i.e. shelf life)out of each set.
--Chuck
5:51 p.m.
On Wed, 02 Nov 2005 08:42:40 -0800
"Chuck Guzis" <cclist at sydex.com> wrote:
On 11/1/2005 at 8:38 PM Scott Stevens wrote:
The lithium batteries I installed were marked 'Best if used by the year 2020' on
the packaging. And they will probably last nearly that long, as they are much larger the
the original battery potted in the NVRAM module, and the CMOS backup/clock application
draws VERY little current. Also, Alkaline batteries run the risk of leaking nasty
substances on my beautiful Sun hardware. I don't think Lithium batteries have that
problem.
--
http://sasteven.multics.org/MacSE30/MacSE30.html
Any suggestions of a better battery (cheaper,
mostly) to 'strap on' to Sun
NVRAMs? I am going to use AAA lithiums on this machine, which should last
forever, but they're a bit pricey.
Why not just some plain old AA alkalines? You should get a couple of years
(i.e. shelf life)out of each set.
--Chuck
5:55 p.m.
>>>> "Scott" == Scott Stevens
<chenmel at earthlink.net> writes:
Scott> .... Also, Alkaline
Scott> batteries run the risk of leaking nasty substances on my
Scott> beautiful Sun hardware. I don't think Lithium batteries have
Scott> that problem.
I wouldn't bet on that.
As a rule of thumb, all batteries contain nasty chemicals. Which ones
depends on the battery. But if you assume all are nasty you will only
rarely be mistaken.
paul
6:19 p.m.
On Wed, 2 Nov 2005 17:55:25 -0500
Paul Koning <pkoning at equallogic.com> wrote:
But don't lithium batteries contain just lithium, which is all gone by the
time the battery discharges? An alkaline or carbon-zinc battery starts oozing as a rule
within a few years. The AAA lithium battery presumably doesn't run the risk of that
until at least 2020.
Does anybody know more they can contribute on the topic?
--
http://sasteven.multics.org/MacSE30/MacSE30.html
>>>> "Scott" == Scott Stevens <chenmel at earthlink.net>
writes:
Scott> .... Also, Alkaline
Scott> batteries run the risk of leaking nasty substances on my
Scott> beautiful Sun hardware. I don't think Lithium batteries have
Scott> that problem.
I wouldn't bet on that.
As a rule of thumb, all batteries contain nasty chemicals. Which ones
depends on the battery. But if you assume all are nasty you will only
rarely be mistaken.
paul
6:26 p.m.
On Wednesday 02 November 2005 18:19, Scott Stevens wrote:
But don't lithium batteries contain just lithium,
which is all gone
by the time the battery discharges? An alkaline or carbon-zinc
battery starts oozing as a rule within a few years. The AAA lithium
battery presumably doesn't run the risk of that until at least 2020.
No. A battery with just one metal (or even no electrolyte) wouldn't
work too well.
As proof, I pulled a CR2032 out of a machine today, and it had some
green crust forming on the battery. The batteries were in machines
that were about 10 years old.
Pat
--
Purdue University Research Computing --- http://www.rcac.purdue.edu/
The Computer Refuge --- http://computer-refuge.org
7:26 p.m.
Patrick Finnegan wrote:
On Wednesday 02 November 2005 18:19, Scott Stevens
wrote:
Green crud usually means copper oxide. Sounds like the
battery container was corroding. Could be due to leaked
chemicals from the inside, but could be also caused by
moisture.
But don't lithium batteries contain just
lithium, which is all gone
by the time the battery discharges? An alkaline or carbon-zinc
battery starts oozing as a rule within a few years. The AAA lithium
battery presumably doesn't run the risk of that until at least 2020.
No. A battery with just one metal (or even no electrolyte) wouldn't
work too well.
As proof, I pulled a CR2032 out of a machine today, and it had some
green crust forming on the battery. The batteries were in machines
that were about 10 years old.
Pat
6:56 p.m.
On 11/2/2005 at 6:19 PM Scott Stevens wrote:
But don't lithium batteries contain just lithium,
which is all gone by the
time the battery discharges? An alkaline or carbon-zinc battery starts
oozing as a rule within a few years. The AAA lithium battery presumably
doesn't run the risk of that until at least 2020.
Does anybody know more they can contribute on the topic?
I believe that primary lithium cells use thionyl chloride as the
electrolyte--and it's plenty corrosive.
I suggested AA alkaline cells with the idea of putting them in a battery
holder EXTERNAL to the box. If they leak, you get goop on your floor and
desk, but your system's safe.
Personally, I hate the idea of anything liquid inside my computer. Liquids
belong on the outside, preferably sitting in a cup or glass--or in the
operator.
Cheers,
Chuck
7:23 p.m.
Scott Stevens wrote:
On Wed, 2 Nov 2005 17:55:25 -0500
Paul Koning <pkoning at equallogic.com> wrote:
But don't lithium batteries contain just lithium, which is all gone by the time
the battery discharges? An alkaline or carbon-zinc battery starts oozing as a rule within
a few years. The AAA lithium battery presumably doesn't run the risk of that until at
least 2020.
Where would the lithium go? Batteries are (usually) not
radioactive transformations.
Discharging batteries is (usually) just a chemical reaction.
The formula changes, but the base atoms remain the same.
>>>>"Scott" == Scott Stevens <chenmel at earthlink.net>
writes:
>>>>
>>>>
Scott> .... Also, Alkaline
Scott> batteries run the risk of leaking nasty substances on my
Scott> beautiful Sun hardware. I don't think Lithium batteries have
Scott> that problem.
I wouldn't bet on that.
As a rule of thumb, all batteries contain nasty chemicals. Which ones
depends on the battery. But if you assume all are nasty you will only
rarely be mistaken.
paul
Does anybody know more they can contribute on the
topic?
3 Nov
3 Nov
9:44 a.m.
>>>> "Scott" == Scott Stevens
<chenmel at earthlink.net> writes:
> As a rule of thumb, all batteries contain nasty
chemicals. Which
> ones depends on the battery. But if you assume all are nasty you
> will only rarely be mistaken.
>
> paul
>
Scott> But don't lithium batteries contain just lithium, which is all
Scott> gone by the time the battery discharges?
No. I don't know the battery chemistry (actually, I'm pretty sure
there are at least 2 or 3 different ones). But as a rule, a battery
contains 3 parts: two electrodes, and an electrolyte. One electrode
is consumed as the battery discharges, the other is inert. The
electrolyte carries electrons and ions around, and participates in the
consuming.
In a classic carbon/zinc battery, the cathode is zinc, which is
consumed; the anode is a carbon rod; and the electrolyte is some sort
of acidic paste.
Also, the cathode material isn't "all gone" when the battery is
discharged. Some of it is generally left in its original form. And
the rest is still around in another form, for example ions in the
electrolyte (i.e., a metal salt).
Usually it's the electrolyte you have to worry about, since that's
almost by definition a caustic material. In some cases, like lithium
batteries, you *also* have to worry about the cathode material since
that is rather reactive, and flammable.
paul
6870
days inactive
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16 comments
10 participants
participants (10)
-
ajp166＠bellatlantic.net -
cclist＠sydex.com -
chenmel＠earthlink.net -
doc＠mdrconsult.com -
jwest＠classiccmp.org -
kth＠srv.net -
pat＠computer-refuge.org -
pkoning＠equallogic.com -
ploopster＠gmail.com -
spc＠conman.org