The Mac Plus and beyond use an 8 pin miniDin for serial. Also, the AV quadras, and many of the PowerMacs use a 9 pin miniDin (same pinout as the 8 pin, but with an extra 9th pin added that IIRC, just carries voltage for powering "GeoPort" devices). The 9 pin version is backwards compatible with 8 pin cables/devices. The Mac pinout is pretty well documented, and a quick search on Google should turn up a number of hits (if you have a problem finding a pinout, let me know, I have it here somewhere). -chris <http://www.mythtech.net>