In message <Pine.NEB.4.44.0406280819550.20159-100000(a)freeby.mesanet.com> "Peter C. Wallace" <pcw(a)mesanet.com> wrote: They might be useful later, but the one thing I really want at this moment in time is one of the woven cables. It's bad enough that it's had the individual wires woven together, but what makes it worse is the fact that there's about 190 Ohms of resistance from end-to-end in the signal wires (D0-D15 and CLK). The other wires seem to be of a much lower resistance (less than an ohm). Later. -- Phil. | Acorn Risc PC600 Mk3, SA202, 64MB, 6GB, philpem(a)dsl.pipex.com | ViewFinder, 10BaseT Ethernet, 2-slice, http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ | 48xCD, ARCINv6c IDE, SCSI ... Hailing frequencies open Mr. Worf. - Hi, this is Steve Wright on 1 FM.

Joe is absolutely right. Look on eBay - pods are worth serious $$ and LAs go cheap!! Get your money back!! Lyle On Monday 28 June 2004 12:41, Joe R. wrote: -- Lyle Bickley Bickley Consulting West Inc. http://bickleywest.com "Black holes are where God is dividing by zero"

At 09:41 PM 6/28/04 +0100, you wrote: BS! He's the one that shipped it without the pods. You're entitled to all of your money back! If he wants it back, then he should pay for the return shipping. Furthermore the missing pods, leads and grabbers are worth considerably more than $50! In fact, he has it backwards. The LA without the accessories MIGHT be worth $50. The accessories are worth $200! I'm sure they're special cables. If they didn't need to be then HP would have used IDC cables. I have NEVER seen a LA that used IDC cables and I have a LOT of them. (Gould, Dolch, HP, Tektronix, Paratronics, etc, etc) Joe

Almost certainly electrical reasons. Probably to provide series termination of the signals (reduces reflections). -tony

On Mon, 28 Jun 2004 23:16:21 +0100 Philip Pemberton <philpem(a)dsl.pipex.com> wrote: What is nichrome? -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/

Teo> Nichrome is Nickel-Chrome wire, generally used in heating Teo> elements because of its precise resistance per cross sectional Teo> area and length. Not "precise" -- that's true for metals in general. But rather because the resistance is quite high and also because the alloy is tolerant of high temperatures. Interestingly enough, nichrome is also used in thermocouples. paul

Philip> In message <16609.29143.964000.962537(a)gargle.gargle.HOWL> Philip> Paul Koning <pkoning(a)equallogic.com> wrote: Philip> Really? I thought the stuff used in thermocouples was a Philip> copper-nickel alloy? I think we're both right -- there are three or four alloy combinations in common use, and several more that are not so common. Here's a reference... http://www.omega.com/toc_asp/frameset.html?book=Temperature&file=tc_col… -- which mentions nichrome as the + wire of a K thermocouple (yellow plug), and copper/nickel ("constantan") as the - wire of a J thermocouple (black plug). For really esoteric, consider the R type: platinum/rhodium alloy for one wire, pure platinum for the other. paul

A Nickel-Chromium (and other things?) alloy, used to make resistance wire. -tony

From: "der Mouse" <mouse(a)rodents.montreal.qc.ca> We see a bit of the same in Europe. I sometimes attempt to buy things from eBay Germany. Many selles say "will ship to Germany only". When I then enquire about shipping to Denmark (for those who dont know: both countries are in the EU and hence no custom things, importdeclarations etc. are needed, just some extra P & P), some say "no problem", others say "no thank you" and still some others dont bother to replay at all. And of course I tell them that postage, bank transfer costs, etc. will be paid. Nico --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.709 / Virus Database: 465 - Release Date: 22-06-2004

At 02:26 AM 6/30/04 -0400, Der mouse wrote: BS! You've been watching too much television trash! Americans DO NOT have that attitude. They have a more integrated society that includes more races and regilions and foreign visitors and immigrants than any country that I've ever been to and I've been to a LOT of them. I HAVE a Canadian citizenship and I've lived and worked in Canada as well as several other countries and I'll be happy to discuss the differnces with you if you'd like! Even with the problems here I'd rather live here than any other country that I've been to! But to get to cases, the big difference is that for the most part we have common customs, common practices and a common language which makes it simple to do business between states. For example I can ship from Florida to California just as easily as I can ship to the next town down the road. Canadians can't say that! You even have customs duties and sales taxes when selling things from one province to another. In fact, most states in the US reguire that you collect sales tax on items sold. However if it's going to another state then you are not reguired to collect tax so in some ways out of state sales are even easier. The opposite is true in Canada and most other countries. You also have to do everything in two langauges (by law, no less!). Europe can be maddening to deal with! Every country has different rules about what size and weight packages you can send there. Futhermore you can't use some shipping classes to some coutries. For example you can't send Global Priority Mail to Italy. EVEN more, if you want to insure the package then you can only send it certain classes in some countries. Within the US you can insure any package of any shipping class. Something else that most Europeans aren't aware of is just how big this country is! (Yeah Canada is bigger but less than 10% is really populated). We don't need to deal with foreign countries. I don't mean that in a negative sense but what I mean is that we can find everything we need here (including plenty of E-bay buyers) without the hassles of foreign currencies, languages, quirky shipping regulations, customs duties, etc etc. For example just last week I found two books that I wanted to buy from a dealer in the UK. By the time that I went through the hassles and money conversions and getting the money to them, paid shipping, dealt with customs, etc etc it was going to cost over twice as much as the sales price. I gave up and bought the books in the US, it ended up being cheaper and a lot less trouble. All I had to do here was to pick up the telephone and call them in Massachusetts (at no charge), give them my credit card number and address and told them what I wanted. The books arrived yesterday (all three are first editions of the MIT Radiation Lab books). There were no fees to pay and no forms to fill and and zero hassles. speaking of hassels I guess I can throw in one barb here. I have found that service in some European counties and in some places in Canada is LOUSY! They act like they're doing you a favor to wait on you or to sell you anything. They only thing that I can says about that is that they would not have a job long here with their attitudes. French Canada (Montreal specificly) was particularly interesting. They REALLY push the French language there and they are required by law to greet you in French and to try and initiate the conversation in French. I found that they frequently refused to speak English to other Canadians from outside of Quebec since they expected them to be able to speak in French. But if you let them know that you were an American most of them would happly speak to you in English since they didn't expect Americans to speak French. AND if you let them know that you were from Florida, many of them couldn't do enough for you! It seems that they all dream of retiring and moving to Florida :-) Joe and the potential market is seen as so small as to be

At 09:01 AM 6/30/04 -0400, you wrote: You're right and that's something that you have to watch for. I picked up some interesting looks parts out of a scrap pile a few weeks ago and starting searching the net for information about them. The first thing that I found was that they are on the restricted export list and are classified as munitions (there goes E-bay)! They're actually quartz rate sensors (QRS11) made by Systron Donner. (<http://www.systron.com/pro_rate%20sensors.asp> for those that are interested.) Basicly a solid state gyro-scope. The ironic thing is that the Japanese are now building almost identical devices into some of their cars to control skids. Joe

At 02:13 PM 6/30/04 +0000, you wrote: Holy Cow! I didn't realize that this had hit the news. A friend of mine sold some GPS gear to someone in NZ and has been vistied by the FBI about it several times since then. They told him that the buyer was building a cruise missile so it has to be the same guy. FWIW the GPS stuff that my friend sold was nothing special. It was made for tracking delivery trucks and such. You'd be surprised how easy it to to run afoul of the law too! Especially since 9/11. And with the "Patriot Act" you don't even have to break a law, just do something that some bureaucrat doesn't like and you can be locked up indefinitely without charges, a hearing or even access to a lawyer. Count me as an EX-fireworks maker! Joe

On Wed, 2004-06-30 at 11:58, Joe R. wrote: Now that's interesting. My view is that they *are* doing you a favour, just as I'd expect someone to be polite to me if I were serving them in some way and not take me for granted. Maybe that does highlight a big difference between the US and European attitudes (plus Austalia and NZ) to service. One thing I do find is that people often visit foreign countries and expect to be treated just as they're used to at home (I'm not suggesting that about you, it's just a general observation). For me, part of the challenge and fun of going overseas is to experience other beliefs, cultures and ways of doing things, and adjusting to the locals' way of doing things. Presumably because it's French Canada? :-) People generally take pride in their language and often don't like others making assumptions about what language they should speak. (Although I'm not sure how comfortable I'd be if I were forced to greet people in a particular tongue - I suppose the intention of the law there is to just try and protect the local heritage though) cheers, Jules

Not quite. French must be given prominence, I think it is. You can put up all the English signs you like, provided there are more prominent and otherwise comparable French signs as well. Exactly what "more prominent" (or whatever the actual language is) means has been in question; it usually ends up meaning "larger font" in practice. Also, this applies only to businesses putting up signs for their businesses. You can tack up a garage-sale sign, or pretty much anything else individual and informal, in English only, and the worst that's likely to happen is it may get vandalized if you do it in too violently francophone a neighbourhood. Furthermore, the language requires that French be given prominence over other languages, but it's enforced selectively against English. Agreed. I think linguistic bigotry (notably the linguistic bigotry enshrined in law, and especially the selective enforcement I referred to above) is a Bad Thing. If I were the activist type, I'd be trying to get it changed - after all, it has basically achieved its goal, that of overturning the "English oppressing the French" effect. /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse(a)rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B

On Wed, 30 Jun 2004, der Mouse wrote: Good stuff. Gives you lots of time for more interesting hobbies, such as dragging 400-lbs computers around. I do have two TV's (and all that comes with it), but only for my girlfriend, and for watching DVDs. Probably part of our (Dutch) national export? :) Most European countries have a "federal" (== national) taxing system, which includes sales tax. Revenue from that flows back to teh various provinces ("states") by ratio of their industry numbers. So, provinces with little commercial activity will get less of that total revenue than a busy province, such as North Holland (in which Amsterdam lies.) This makes sense: that same total sales tax is "brought in" by that same industry, so the division is more or less fair. THis happened to me, too.. sorry, Mouse. They do seem to have a problem with American-sounding people (like me, since I sound like an American, not a Dutchie ;-) --f

Certainly. A great deal more is bilingual than is required by law to be, though. Oh, I know. Their loss. They're welcome to crawl back into their insular little hole and pull it in after them. Well, that would be a Qu?bec law, not a Canadian law, but that's really nitpicking. :-) When was that? I suspect that your description would have been on the mark some twenty or thirty years ago but is very out of date today. My dear friend, I live and work in downtown Montr?al. I think I know what is going on here (as opposed to what *was* going on here) better than you, describing your what, decades-ago? experience, do. Yes, I heard of such an event - occurring in the '80s or maybe late '70s. I was writing about today's Montreal, not twenty years ago's. Well, it quacked like bigotry and waddled like bigotry.... And they've been having a lot less success than the anglicization of Quebec has been. Basically all native Montrealers, and an awful lot of the imports like me, are passably competent in both languages. I came to Montreal in September 1980. Sometime in the early '80s, I was in some public place chatting with an acquaintance (in English) and a bystander - a complete stranger - snapped "Parles fran?ais!" ("Speak French!") at us - or rather, at one of us - and stomped away. I can't see such a thing happening today. The grudge that fueled the linguistic bigotry is now just that, a grudge without the substance behind it that there once was, and without that substance to drive it, it's dying. /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse(a)rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B

Both, actually, but perhaps more over the last ten than the previous ten. (Also, it's dying, but not yet dead; there are still vandals who spraypaint over the STOP on ARRET/STOP signs and the like, but not nearly as many as twenty or even ten years ago.) You, my dear Herr Merchberger, have a delightfully evil mind. "Ja, jeg er tospr?klig - norsk og engelsk." :) Because Canadian winters farther north are worse. :-) /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse(a)rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B

At 10:59 AM 7/3/04 +0100, you wrote: Interesting. Spar is probably the largest Aerospace company in Canada. They made the robotic arm for the space schuttle and they made FLIRs for us. FWIW after the program was cancelled a lot of the hardware ended up being scrapped and I found a 99% complete FLIR in a scrap yard. I'm now the proud owner of it :-) Joe

On Friday 09 July 2004 13:59, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: My best guess is "Forward Looking InfraRed".. an IR generally used on police (and probably military) helicopters to help locate people via their IR (body heat) signatures. Damn, I think that I've watched too many "COPS" episodes in the past... Pat -- Purdue University ITAP/RCS --- http://www.itap.purdue.edu/rcs/ The Computer Refuge --- http://computer-refuge.org

On Fri, 9 Jul 2004, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: ^^^^ Forward Looking Infra Red, or sometimes Forward Looking Infrared Radar (not the correct term obviously) Those wierd black-and-white negative images you see from police helicopters chasing guys running thru neighborhoods at night - the warmer something is, the 'brighter' it appears on the FLIR monitor. Also seen in fighter plane gun-camera shots of us blowing up things out in the middle of various Middle Eastern Deserts. Cheers John

Now don't go giving away all the secrets!

Ah, more "America sucks" invective. Yes, that's very civilized. -- ---------------------------------- personal: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Floodgap Systems Ltd * So. Calif., USA * ckaiser(a)floodgap.com -- I don't care who you are, stop walking on the water when I'm fishing! <>< --

On Wed, Jun 30, 2004 at 08:21:30AM +0200, Hans B PUFAL wrote: This is different than eBay sellers - there's been a large amount of fraud via APO boxes and foreign orders, so lots of laptop and digital camera vendors won't take the risk. The ones perpetrating the fraud know how hard it is to catch someone out of the country. I myself was burned for a couple thousand from a vendor with a retail store (in Holland) that refused to pay the invoice, claiming that the product was never delivered ("oh, that? That's not _my_ signature...") In the case of eBay sellers, it's not fear of fraud so much as fear of hassle. The one thing that's different about sending a package through the Post is a customs form. That's it (and you have to do that for an APO box as well). UPS is a different story - if you don't do pages of export documents, even to Canada, they will shunt your package to a customs broker... the first thing I bought from Canada was for my Amiga, a disk interface. The seller was new to international shipping, and put it in a box and took it to UPS. I get this call from a broker who wants $80 to handle the paperwork (it was a $70 item). I told them to return it to the sender. He got it back, he got things figured out, and I got it, I think, in the Post, with no further problems. I have shipped many things to Canada, even via UPS, and since _I_ fill out the paperwork, there's never been a problem. -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 30-Jun-2004 09:00 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -89.9 F (-67.7 C) Windchill -131.4 F (-90.8 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 10.9 kts Grid 079 Barometer 670.4 mb (10989. ft) Ethan.Dicks(a)amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html

At 08:21 AM 6/30/04 +0200, you wrote: I've wondered the same thing. I sell on E-bay and I send about half the stuff that I sell over seas. The one problem that I've had is that many over seas buyers never pay. Perhaps they bid then find out the high shipping costs and costs of making payments via Western Union or whoever and then just back out without saying anything. I'm been waiting 6 weeks for payment on some DEC parts right now. As far as the shippers go, I've found many of them to be incredibly lazy and greedy! A lot of them want $35 or sometimes even $50 handling charge for the smallest item. My opinion is that packing and handling is part of the cost of doing business unless it's something extra ordinary. An international buyer knows they will have to pay for shipping I've already been doing that for a number of people. But I don't want to make a regular business of it. It doesn't cost much as far as money is concerned but it is time consuming and if I did a lot of it then space would become a problem. (Space is already a problem :-( Joe

Patrick Finnegan wrote: I understand the issues of difficulty of payment. I have bank accounts in three countries and two continents so I can usually pay in a currency local to the seller. Asking to be paid in the currency local to the seller is IMHO quite acceptable. As to international buyers not paying, apply the normal rules : payment within 10 days or negative feedback! I see no reason to give an international buyer any slack other than (at their request) a few days grace to allow for the extra time for the mailed check or whatever to reach you. I have a blemish free ebay record and most of my transactions are international in one way or another. My most frustrating experience was having my last minute winning bid canceled by a seller because I was not in the US (AFAIR they did not specify US only buyers). I was frustrated at not getting something I really wanted, he lost out by accepting a lower bid price. -- HansP

On Wed, 30 Jun 2004, Paul Koning wrote: Thats why smart people live in countries that are less restrictive on what can be exported "in the People's Best Interest". :) (no, Hans, France is not one of em either ;-) Seriously though. Yes, the export stuff is an issue in the U.S., although so far, most sellers basically did not want to bother with the extra forms, the ".. possibility of me having to pay taxes or duties for your country..." and so on. And, face it, most U.S. citizens don't even KNOW where, say, Holland is. (no flames on this last observation, please, flame me off-list if you feel like it..) And ya know what? Once I tell em I actually live in the U.S., but am "sent out" to Europe... they're all of a sudden OK with sending it to Holland again. Even though they need exact instructions on how to fill out those damn forms ;-) Just my observation, being a multi-country hopper.. --f

On Wed, 30 Jun 2004, Teo Zenios wrote: That depends whether you're a person or a 'puter :) There's only import restrictions on people, but almost only export restrictions on 'puters :) Did I tell the list about my adventures with a (U.S.) parcel carrier that had to transport a bunch of VAX 11/750 boards to my address in Holland? They quoted me import duties here (24%, by the way) over the total value of US$ 275,000.00. Why? Because said parcel service's U.S. office droids decided it *was* an 11/750 they were moving, not just parts. Yes, I am still fighting that battle. --f

Fred> On Wed, 30 Jun 2004, Paul Koning wrote: Hans> I find it amazing that in the land of rampant capitalism they Hans> are unable to see the advantages of selling internationally.... Hans> The eBay "will ship to <insert your country of choice> only" is Hans> something I do not understand. Why reduce your potential Hans> market? An international buyer knows they will have to pay for Hans> shipping and that might put them off but why shut them out Hans> completely? The extra hassle of an international shipment Hans> cannot be that great, at least it isn't in my experience here Hans> in Europe. Fred> Thats why smart people live in countries that are less Fred> restrictive on what can be exported "in the People's Best Fred> Interest". :) That doesn't necessarily help... if it came from the US, it technically carries restrictions with it as it travels. Fred> Seriously though. Yes, the export stuff is an issue in the Fred> U.S., although so far, most sellers basically did not want to Fred> bother with the extra forms, the ".. possibility of me having Fred> to pay taxes or duties for your country..." and so on. And, Fred> face it, most U.S. citizens don't even KNOW where, say, Holland Fred> is. Why should they? :-) (Former Dutchman speaking here...) The issue isn't just forms. The issue is that the rules require you to check each shipment destination to see if it matches a prohibited parties list, and that list changes all the time. It's not a low overhead activity to do this stuff right. I suspect there are people who don't do this, either because they have no clue that they are required to, or because they figure they don't care. But my point is that it is hard work to obey the law in this area. Fred> And ya know what? Once I tell em I actually live in the U.S., Fred> but am "sent out" to Europe... they're all of a sudden OK with Fred> sending it to Holland again. Even though they need exact Fred> instructions on how to fill out those damn forms ;-) If the sender was aware of the rules and applying them as written, I don't think that should have made any difference... paul

Joe> Exact instructions? Let's see; shippers name and address (I Joe> think they can figure that one out), Addressies name and address Joe> (that shouldn't be too hard, after all they are mailing the item Joe> to them), then name of the item and it's value (can't be too Joe> hard, they did just sell it on E-bay), next weather it's a gift, Joe> sample or merchandise (gee, that's tough but since they SOLD it Joe> I'd say it must be merchandise), then finally sign and date Joe> it. This must be the rough part, they either don't know their Joe> own name or they can't read. Joe> Seriously, what's the difficulty? Did they check the recipient's name against the denied parties list? Do they even know what a denied parties list is? Did they check the export category of the item being exported, and verify what the export rules are that apply to *that* category for *that* destination country and type of recipient? That's the difficulty. paul

On Wed, 30 Jun 2004, Paul Koning wrote: The US Post Office makes no mention of this requirement, which is still fairly new as far as I know. So as long as the USPS is not enforcing it, then what does it really matter? Once Bush and his ill lot is out of office it's not going to matter anyway. The US PATRIOT act is going to be relegated to the shitheap of history (along with the rest of his putrid administration). (Or am I being WAY TOO optimistic?) -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ]

On Wed, 7 Jul 2004, Paul Koning wrote: The "banned receiver list" is most definitely a new thing. I didn't like him either. In fact, I don't like any of them. They can all go straight to hell as far as I'm concerned. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ]

At 06:40 AM 7/11/04 -0400, you wrote: Do you have the original battery pack? If so, I'd send it to one of the places that will take it apart and replace the individual cells and reassemble the pack. Just be sure they use GOOD cells and not the cheap Chinese or Mexican made ones. A GOOD set of NiCads will last at least 7 or 8 years instead of one year like the junk ones. I've been using the Japanese made Sanyos and they've worked great for me. I've been dealing with TNR in Sanford, Fla right off of I-4 for years and they've always done a good job for me. They also have a website. You can also buy the individual cells with tabs attached and assemble them yourself but soldering the adjacent tabs together is bulkier than just having a strap between them. And you'll have to figure out a way to attach the battery pack connectors. If you take it to a rebuilder they'll remove the connectors and spot weld them to the new batteries. Don't even think about trying to solder wires or straps directly to the battery cells! I've posted the reasons why here before so I'll skip repeating them but go read the previous posts if in doubt. Joe

On Sun, 11 Jul 2004, Gene Ehrich wrote: Perfectly on-topic Try: www.acsparts.com I have restored a couple of Toshibas using thier rather eclectic collection of Stuff.... you don't list the actual battery type, but under the 'Thinkpad' 'Parts' 'batteries' sections are listed a bunch of various items in this regard. Cheers John

Gene, We don't know where you reside, but below Joe has you covered on the East coast, and here on the "left" coast in California we have a place called "House of Batteries" sales(a)houseofbatteries.com in Huntington Beach that can get or make any combination of sizes and chemical makeup. They're 100% so far in my book. Good luck. Best regards, Steven ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gene Ehrich" &lt;gehrich(a)tampabay.rr.com&gt; To: &lt;cctalk(a)classiccmp.org&gt; Sent: Sunday, July 11, 2004 3:40 AM Subject: laptop batteries (Thinkpad 500) ??? from Do you have the original battery pack? If so, I'd send it to one of the places that will take it apart and replace the individual cells and reassemble the pack. Just be sure they use GOOD cells and not the cheap Chinese or Mexican made ones. A GOOD set of NiCads will last at least 7 or 8 years instead of one year like the junk ones. I've been using the Japanese made Sanyos and they've worked great for me. I've been dealing with TNR in Sanford, Fla right off of I-4 for years and they've always done a good job for me. They also have a website. You can also buy the individual cells with tabs attached and assemble them yourself but soldering the adjacent tabs together is bulkier than just having a strap between them. And you'll have to figure out a way to attach the battery pack connectors. If you take it to a rebuilder they'll remove the connectors and spot weld them to the new batteries. Don't even think about trying to solder wires or straps directly to the battery cells! I've posted the reasons why here before so I'll skip repeating them but go read the previous posts if in doubt. Joe

At 08:33 AM 7/30/04 +0200, you wrote: Quite possibly. I'm finding out that a lot of the problems in NHM and Li-ion batteries are due to the circuitry in the battery packs and not the batteries themselves. I've been looking for an extended battery for my Dell Lattitude LM laptop. Recently I found 12 of them in a surplus store and I bought them all. NONE of them works even though they looked new and unused! I've even opened a couple of them up and charged the batteries with a small regulated power supply but the pack still has no output and the computer doesn't recognze that it's even installed and it doesn't appear tobe getting any charging curent via the computer and standard charger. There is a LOT of circuitry in those packs. I expect the parts count is well over 100 devices including many ICs (and everything is surface mount). Joe

I've not heard that phrase before, but it sounds like a new name for the Denied Parties List (DPL), which is the set of people with whom you cannot deal at all, ever. Even if they use an intermediary. It's as enforcible as any other crime: if they catch you, they can enforce it :-) I expect they know that they are disliked - it does not seem to stop them doing what they do though! Antonio -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini(a)iee.org

Vintage> On Wed, 7 Jul 2004, Paul Koning wrote: Vintage> The "banned receiver list" is most definitely a new thing. It's called "denied parties list" and it most definitely was there before the Patriot act. paul

----- Original Message ----- From: "Marvin Johnston" &lt;marvin(a)rain.org&gt; To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" &lt;cctalk(a)classiccmp.org&gt; Sent: Wednesday, July 07, 2004 6:26 PM Subject: Re: Buying in the States was Re: HP analyzer probes I can't think of a democrat that went out of his way to piss other world leaders off like Bush does. Each party is owned by big business if that is what you are referring to.

Export restrictions have been around forever. They exist in almost every country and are (I would guess) mostly ignored (probably through ignorance) almost everywhere. While I was at DEC, the export compliance training was mandatory for everyone every so many months or years (2 years I think). The story was that someone had shipped something (possibly a VAX) to someone seemingly legit who then passed it along to someone he shouldn't have. Big fine, mandatory compliance training. I think it will be your govenrment who actually enforce it :-) It will olny matter once you get caught - pretty much like all laws :-) If anything, this one has been toned down a bit in the last few years (at least on the US side). Super computers (like, say, an entry level mobile phone these days :-)) are no longer classed as nuclear munitions so you can sell them to anyone (except people on the DPL and presumably people who know where the banned countries are). It's nothing to do with the PATRIOT act - it has been around for much longer than that. It's all to do with not selling to your Cold War enemies. All toned down because big biz realised that if they could not sell computers outside the US someone else would :-) Ecommerce helped too. If the PATRIOT act gets in the way of big business, it will go the same way. Not that I care - I'm in the UK ... I presume we have our own DPL equivalent but I have no real idea :-) Antonio -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini(a)iee.org