On 04/18/2013 08:14 AM, Sam O'nella wrote: Yep, it's Jay. And he's watching. Not constantly, but he'd see your message. -- --- Dave Woyciesjes --- ICQ# 905818 --- AIM - woyciesjes --- CompTIA A+ Certified IT Tech - http://certification.comptia.org/ --- HDI Certified Support Center Analyst - http://www.ThinkHDI.com/ Registered Linux user number 464583 "Computers have lots of memory but no imagination." "The problem with troubleshooting is that trouble shoots back." - from some guy on the internet.

Jay [Rob Jarratt] Yes but I said moderator in the subject line which was incorrect, sorry for that. However I do still want to discuss some problems with the list with person who manages it. Regards Rob

At 11:31 PM +0000 4/18/13, Cory Smelosky wrote: I think it's just you. I would prefer if that wasn't done, it wastes bytes, and lengthens the subject line. Personally I have a filter setup so that all classiccmp emails go to the same mailbox. Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh at aracnet.com | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Photographer | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | My flickr Photostream | | http://www.flickr.com/photos/33848088 at N03/ | | My Photography Website | | http://www.zanesphotography.com |

On Fri, 19 Apr 2013, Cory Smelosky wrote: The subject line issue has been debated more times than I can count. I'm not really a fan of the idea either, especially since many "braindead" clients tend to handle the subject line poorly and jumble it up as a thread progresses. Just wait until you begin to find more of al(pine)'s advanced/hidden features... Same. Procmail can do pretty much anything, but for list traffic, simply redirecting each list to it's own mbox file suffices for my needs. :0: * ^List-Id:.*cctalk\.classiccmp\.org lists/classiccmp

On 04/18/2013 11:42 PM, Zane H. Healy wrote: Actually I'd like it too, but it's been suggested/debated/screamed about dozens of times over the past ten years or so here. -Dave -- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA

I'm the moderator of this list and you're all fired! -- "The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline" free book <http://tinyurl.com/d3d-pipeline> The Computer Graphics Museum <http://computergraphicsmuseum.org> The Terminals Wiki <http://terminals.classiccmp.org> Legalize Adulthood! (my blog) <http://legalizeadulthood.wordpress.com>

In article <alpine.LFD.2.03.1304191328400.32513 at deltasoft.com>, geneb <geneb at deltasoft.com> writes: If you visit my museum in Salt Lake City, I will happily buy you one drink. -- "The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline" free book <http://tinyurl.com/d3d-pipeline> The Computer Graphics Museum <http://computergraphicsmuseum.org> The Terminals Wiki <http://terminals.classiccmp.org> Legalize Adulthood! (my blog) <http://legalizeadulthood.wordpress.com>

In article <alpine.LFD.2.03.1304201010270.18156 at deltasoft.com>, geneb <geneb at deltasoft.com> writes: Beggars can't be choosers. The museum is located next to The Bayou, which has the largest selection of beers of any establishment in Utah and some pretty good food too. <http://www.utahbayou.com/> -- "The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline" free book <http://tinyurl.com/d3d-pipeline> The Computer Graphics Museum <http://computergraphicsmuseum.org> The Terminals Wiki <http://terminals.classiccmp.org> Legalize Adulthood! (my blog) <http://legalizeadulthood.wordpress.com>

In article <51739132.6070002 at gmail.com>, Dave <dave.g4ugm at gmail.com> writes: cctalk'ers are always welcome! -- "The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline" free book <http://tinyurl.com/d3d-pipeline> The Computer Graphics Museum <http://computergraphicsmuseum.org> The Terminals Wiki <http://terminals.classiccmp.org> Legalize Adulthood! (my blog) <http://legalizeadulthood.wordpress.com>

Am 19.04.2013 05:42, schrieb Zane H. Healy: Agree. Yes, procmail does it for me. Have collected years of cctalk... Ph -- Dipl.-Inf. (FH) Philipp Hachtmann Buchdruck, Bleisatz, Spezialit?ten Alemannstr. 21, D-30165 Hannover Tel. 0511/3522222, Mobil 0171/2632239 Fax. 0511/3500439 hachti at hachti.de www.tiegeldruck.de UStdID DE 202668329

Oh no! We *can't* increase the subject line length - then it won't format correctly on my TRS-80 model 100 <grin!> On Fri, Apr 19, 2013 at 1:55 PM, David Riley <fraveydank at gmail.com> wrote: -- Doug Jackson VK1ZDJ http://www.dougswordclock.com/ -< My clocks http://www.vk1zdj.net -< My Amature Radio Activities

e: On Sat, 20 Apr 2013, Cory Smelosky wrote : Not anywhere close to enough for modern communication. Besides, it won't proper ly display dancing kangaroos and yodelli ng jellyfish.

On Sat, 20 Apr 2013, geneb wrote: If I had soldering gear I'd reply with a Commodore 64. ;) (I have one of those C64 Direct-to-TV things...not a real C64) -- Cory Smelosky http://gewt.net/ Personal stuff http://gimme-sympathy.org Experiments

(grin) The M100 can do 40 characters - And I used to use it as a head on a unix box before i had a real terminal - You had to be *real* patient On Sun, Apr 21, 2013 at 6:22 AM, geneb <geneb at deltasoft.com> wrote: -- Doug Jackson VK1ZDJ http://www.dougswordclock.com/ -< My clocks http://www.vk1zdj.net -< My Amature Radio Activities

On 19 apr. 2013, at 01:31, "Cory Smelosky" <b4 at gewt.net> wrote: There's probably more people that feel that way, but there are headers in list messages to that purpose. This has come up in the past, and I don't give you much of a chance it'll happen. .tsooJ -- Wherever you go, there you are. -- Joost van de Griek <http://www.jvdg.net/>

On 04/19/2013 12:27 AM, Joost van de Griek wrote: If "that purpose" means automated filtering of email, yes, the headers work great, and are a much cleaner solution. But there are other reasons for subject tagging. Personally, I do not like filtering my mail into separate spools as it comes in, because, since I'm a busy person, I will never go and dig through them. It has to come into my main spool or I will never see it. Lists with subject-tagged messages stand out easily in my (rather large) inbound mail volume. And honestly, of the 25 or so mailing lists that I'm on, this is the ONLY ONE that doesn't do subject tagging. -Dave -- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA

in which case, it ALREADY stands out and lets you know which list it's from. "no tag? that is CCTALK." However, I AM on more than one untagged list. I would prefer tags, but nowhere near as strongly as some who REALLY STRONGLY don't want them. -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin at xenosoft.com

On Apr 19, 2013, at 12:59 PM, Fred Cisin wrote: I sympathize with the need to manage a high volume of incoming mail. Is it not, however, sufficient to create a filter or delivery rule along the lines of if the List-Id: header contains cctech.classicmp.org (or cctalk), then move it to a separate folder? How is this not a trivial solution to the problem---one which doesn't require amending the subject line? ok bear.

On 04/19/2013 05:48 PM, Dave Woyciesjes wrote: [head explodes] Is it really so difficult for people to understand that the people who want subject tagging DO NOT WANT IT FOR SORTING PURPOSES? WTF? -Dave -- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA

On 4/19/2013 8:04 PM, Dave McGuire wrote: Actually, YES IT IS! If not for sorting, then what other reason is there for taking up valuable space at the beginning of the subject line? As a side note, having the tag in the subject line would _impair_ sorting for me. Since I read the mail on a device with small screen, I don't see much of the subject line at all.. -- --- Dave Woyciesjes --- ICQ# 905818 --- AIM - woyciesjes --- CompTIA A+ Certified IT Tech - http://certification.comptia.org/ --- HDI Certified Support Center Analyst - http://www.ThinkHDI.com/ Registered Linux user number 464583 "...Talking to you is like clapping with one hand." Anthrax, "Caught in a mosh"

On 04/21/2013 11:03 AM, Dave McGuire wrote: Actually, if you did explain your reason, I apologize. I missed it. And I never said your reason was invalid, I just wanted to know what it was So, you do use it for sorting, in a method different from what others were thinking. It doesn't break the mail client's sorting; that does just fine. It' the sorting in my head. I go through the list, looking a specific subjects. And after seeing your reasoning, I don't like the tag, for sorting, in the same way you _do_ like it. Kind of ironic, wouldn't you say? ;) With that being said, it's safe to say this thread is toast, and we're good...? [offering hand-shake to Mr. McGuire...] -- --- Dave Woyciesjes --- ICQ# 905818 --- AIM - woyciesjes --- CompTIA A+ Certified IT Tech - http://certification.comptia.org/ --- HDI Certified Support Center Analyst - http://www.ThinkHDI.com/ Registered Linux user number 464583 "Computers have lots of memory but no imagination." "The problem with troubleshooting is that trouble shoots back." - from some guy on the internet.

I'm not sure whether that's a reason to do it or a reason to not do it. And my experience is quite the opposite. I did a quick look over my incoming mail since beginning of Sunday (that's when I roll over my incoming mail archive). Out of 854 messages, almost all of them list traffic (19 different List-Id: headers), I see, if I've counted right, 27 messages from 5 distinct lists with subject tags. I may have missed some, but not very many. I like it that way. Subject tags don't bother me enough for me to go to the trouble of making my software strip them, but I don't like them; "mildly annoying" is probably about right. /~\ The ASCII Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse at rodents-montreal.org / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B

On 04/19/2013 03:58 PM, Mouse wrote: Yes, I too am familiar with Procmail. It's nice, but it will not run in my configuration. I suppose I might be able to do the same thing with a Sieve script. -Dave -- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA

* On Fri, Apr 19, 2013 at 03:12:25PM -0500, Jules Richardson <jules.richardson99 at gmail.com> wrote: I always called them "mailboxes". Back in the good old days, of course, I only had one mailbox. Now I've got dozens. -Seth

On 04/19/2013 04:12 PM, Jules Richardson wrote: But....ummm....of course, yes, but, as you seem to have noticed above, *I* want it (and know I'm not going to get it) for reasons OTHER THAN automated sorting. -Dave -- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA

On Fri, 19 Apr 2013, Jules Richardson wrote: Directories, mbox (mailbox) files, etc. Exactly. This is even more of a concern for those who still use an 80 column display. After all, this /is/ classiccmp, where even with all the web-forums out there, we are still using email ;)

Yes, for many people and purposes - or, rather, no, not "suddenly"; it has happened gradually over the last deacde or so. A lot of people seem to consider them a functional equivalent, replacement, whatever, for many purposes. I don't like it any more than you seem to. But that's one of the directions the computer world has gone these days - and one of the reasons I'm getting more and more depressed about being more and more out of step with more and more of it. /~\ The ASCII Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse at rodents-montreal.org / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B

On 19 Apr 2013, at 22:48, "Dave McGuire" <mcguire at neurotica.com> wrote: Next you'll tell me Fax machines are dying! Eh, They ARE pretty annoying. Mine will most likely too, so long as they don't hit my spamfilter.

On 19 Apr 2013, at 23:42, "Dave McGuire" <mcguire at neurotica.com> wrote: That;s the joke. I still have one. ;) And several fax fake modems.

On Sat, 20 Apr 2013, Dave McGuire wrote: That's ALSO the joke. ;) -- Cory Smelosky http://gewt.net/ Personal stuff http://gimme-sympathy.org Experiments

I feel moderately sure you don't actually mean this to be taken seriously, but there is a real point lurking here which I think it good to address. As hard as it may be for you or me to understand, they _aren't_ annoying to a lot of people these days. While it doesn't happen much (like you, I tend to hang out with crowds that share our opinion on this point), I _have_ seen people ask things indicating that they actually prefer a web forum to a mailing list - and no, I don't think they're all trolls expecting to hide behind the pseudonymity granted by having (potentially) a separate name on each forum. Your port 25, good as it may be, does not a world make. :( It's getting to the point where you can't even get a job, never mind a _computer_ job, without having to use the God-damned Web! (It's not quite there yet, but it's depressingly close - and I mean "depressingly" literally; when events have forced these matters into my awareness, I've been noticing symptoms typically associated with depression showing up.) /~\ The ASCII Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse at rodents-montreal.org / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B

Not me. Subject lines are already unwieldy enough; the envelope-from and the List-*: headers are plenty for any automated identification of list mail I want to do. Is it difficult for you to use them? /~\ The ASCII Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse at rodents-montreal.org / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B

On 19-apr-2013 9:22, Cory Smelosky wrote: How so? It seems to work fine for me. - MG

On 04/19/2013 06:14 AM, John Many Jars wrote: I don't know. That's what I asked you, -- --- Dave Woyciesjes --- ICQ# 905818 --- AIM - woyciesjes --- CompTIA A+ Certified IT Tech - http://certification.comptia.org/ --- HDI Certified Support Center Analyst - http://www.ThinkHDI.com/ Registered Linux user number 464583 "Computers have lots of memory but no imagination." "The problem with troubleshooting is that trouble shoots back." - from some guy on the internet.

On 04/19/2013 01:39 PM, Fred Cisin wrote: What? -- --- Dave Woyciesjes --- ICQ# 905818 --- AIM - woyciesjes --- CompTIA A+ Certified IT Tech - http://certification.comptia.org/ --- HDI Certified Support Center Analyst - http://www.ThinkHDI.com/ Registered Linux user number 464583 "Computers have lots of memory but no imagination." "The problem with troubleshooting is that trouble shoots back." - from some guy on the internet.

What's on second.

On Apr 19, 2013, at 7:43 PM, Pete Turnbull <pete at dunnington.plus.com> wrote: I don't give a darn!

Dave Woyciesjes wrote: No, he's on second. Peace... Sridhar

On Mon, 22 Apr 2013, Dave Woyciesjes wrote: Who is on first.

Dave Woyciesjes wrote: No, Who's on first. Peace... Sridhar

On 19-apr-2013 17:30, Cory Smelosky wrote: For me it felt the other way around. Well, not so much what I could filter (which is nearly everything), but the later versions allowed a bit better 'filter management' (searching through them, for one). What are you trying to achieve? For instance, I filter this list by specifically going for the "List-Id" header attribute. (I do the same for others.) That usually works fine for me. - MG

On 04/19/2013 03:22 AM, Cory Smelosky wrote: I've never had an issue with TBird filtering. 'Course, I do the filtering on the email server now, and still use TBird for reading. -- --- Dave Woyciesjes --- ICQ# 905818 --- AIM - woyciesjes --- CompTIA A+ Certified IT Tech - http://certification.comptia.org/ --- HDI Certified Support Center Analyst - http://www.ThinkHDI.com/ Registered Linux user number 464583 "Computers have lots of memory but no imagination." "The problem with troubleshooting is that trouble shoots back." - from some guy on the internet.

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 19/04/13 16:44, Cory Smelosky wrote: I simply filter on `To, From, Cc' contains `(a)classiccmp.org&#39; in ThunderBird and it seems to work very well. - -- Mateusz K.

On 04/19/2013 02:29 PM, Jim Stephens wrote: I have this filter in GMail, which works fine for me: Matches: to:(cctech at classiccmp.org) Do this: Skip Inbox, Apply label "ClassicCMP", Never send it to Spam -- --- Dave Woyciesjes --- ICQ# 905818 --- AIM - woyciesjes --- CompTIA A+ Certified IT Tech - http://certification.comptia.org/ --- HDI Certified Support Center Analyst - http://www.ThinkHDI.com/ Registered Linux user number 464583 "Computers have lots of memory but no imagination." "The problem with troubleshooting is that trouble shoots back." - from some guy on the internet.

On 04/19/2013 10:11 PM, Rick Murphy wrote: Wrong. That's waht List-Id headers are for, yes. They work GREAT for filtering. ...or for people who want it for something other than automated filtering, who are accustomed to seeing it for EVERY OTHER LIST AROUND, and just plain LIKE it. For example. -Dave -- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA

On 04/19/2013 11:19 PM, Mouse wrote: Right. Why is why I'm explaining (over and over) why I want it (which again has nothing to do with filtering)...NOT because I'm fighting for it or I somehow think it's going to happen. I gave up on it ten years ago. See above. It's more a matter that my configuration does not support it. My mail server is fully virtualized (not like "VMware" virtualized, but meaning "supports virtual addresses" under multiple domains), and does not back-end email addresses with UNIX system accounts. I sacrificed my much-loved .procmailrc many years ago to gain the advantages of this configuration. I've heard rumblings since then, however, that Procmail has been shoe-horned into such configurations. I don't know how clean it is (where does my .procmailrc live??) but I've since moved on to CMU Sieve, which I think is a much better alternative, and is fully integrated into the mail system, so no fork()/exec() crap, etc etc. (this is a busy mail server with lots of accounts) I appreciate the offer; thank you. I don't care that much about it though. As I stated above, I was merely railing on about it because dense people refused to accept the notion that someone might want subject tagging for a purpose other than mail sorting. (which I can do JUST FINE and have been for a very long time) I can probably make Sieve do it...but it's really not worth it to me to look into. It's just something that I see as oddly "missing", when every other even SLIGHTLY technical list I'm on uses them. The ones I run most certainly do. That's all. But once again, thank you for the offer, that is most kind of you. -Dave -- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA

On 18/04/2013 13:14, Sam O'nella wrote: There is a list owner address on the cctalk home page....