20 May
2011
20 May
'11
1:10 p.m.
As an idea to get RT-11 onto your RL01; why not try using a TU58
emulator, with oversized tape images? There's a modified driver file
out there - very easy to find too - that'll let you have RT-11 think
the DECtape II tapes are the size of an RL02, which will let you boot
the RT-11 V5.3 installation pack on the emulator. From there, just
install RT-11 to the real RL01 as you would normally install RT-11.
It's simple to setup (and if you don't want to fiddle around with disk
images, asking will get you one from me or whoever else has done it
this way), and all you need on the PDP-11 side of things is a second
serial line. Also, it's relatively painless, as the RT-11 install
isn't all that difficult.
(Honestly, the entire installation of RT-11 via the emulated,
oversized, TU58 would be:
INITIALIZE/BACKBLOCK DL0:
COPY/SYSTEM SY:*.* DL0:*.*
COPY/BOOT:DL DL0:RT11SJ.SYS DL0:
BOOT DL0:
And that's it, you're in RT-11 SJ on your real RL01, SYSGEN it if you
wish to tailor your RT-11 install.)
Cheers.
20 May
20 May
7:20 p.m.
On Friday (05/20/2011 at 01:10PM -0400), Christian Gauger-Cosgrove wrote:
(Honestly, the entire installation of RT-11 via the emulated,
oversized, TU58 would be:
INITIALIZE/BACKBLOCK DL0:
^^^^^^^^^
BADBLOCK
typo?
COPY/SYSTEM SY:*.* DL0:*.*
COPY/BOOT:DL DL0:RT11SJ.SYS DL0:
BOOT DL0:
And that's it, you're in RT-11 SJ on your real RL01, SYSGEN it if you
wish to tailor your RT-11 install.)
--
Chris Elmquist
21 May
21 May
3:18 p.m.
Yes, it was a typo, thanks for pointing out the obviousness (and my
forgetting to manually proofread that part of the message).
Still, the point remains, it seems a bit easier then VTSERVER to just
do it via a TU58 emulator, especially if VTSERVER ignores the bad
blocks on the real media.
Cheers.
On 20 May 2011 19:20, Chris Elmquist <chrise at pobox.com> wrote:
On Friday (05/20/2011 at 01:10PM -0400), Christian
Gauger-Cosgrove wrote:
(Honestly, the entire installation of RT-11 via the emulated,
oversized, TU58 would be:
INITIALIZE/BACKBLOCK DL0:
? ? ? ? ? ? ^^^^^^^^^
? ? ? ? ? ? BADBLOCK
typo?
COPY/SYSTEM SY:*.* DL0:*.*
COPY/BOOT:DL DL0:RT11SJ.SYS DL0:
BOOT DL0:
And that's it, you're in RT-11 SJ on your real RL01, SYSGEN it if you
wish to tailor your RT-11 install.)
--
Chris Elmquist
6:57 p.m.
On Saturday (05/21/2011 at 03:18PM -0400), Christian Gauger-Cosgrove wrote:
Yes, it was a typo, thanks for pointing out the
obviousness (and my
forgetting to manually proofread that part of the message).
I just didn't want someone not as familiar with the OS to struggle with
a command that would definitely not work as intended.
Still, the point remains, it seems a bit easier then
VTSERVER to just
do it via a TU58 emulator, especially if VTSERVER ignores the bad
blocks on the real media.
Do you have a recipe for converting various non-TU58 images (such as
RL02) to a TU58 image so that it can be put onto the emulator and
then transfered to the target system?
Many of the images floating around are RL02, RX33, or other kinds of
rotating media/disk images and not tape images. What is the right
way to turn them into tape images for such an emulator?
Thanks.
Chris
--
Chris Elmquist
22 May
22 May
9:06 a.m.
On 05/21/2011 06:57 PM, Chris Elmquist wrote:
On Saturday (05/21/2011 at 03:18PM -0400), Christian
Gauger-Cosgrove wrote:
Simple with an emulator running said disk images you have the tools
and source files to build a tape image.
NOTE: Vtserver aka tu58 emulator was simply a block addressable device on
the end of a serial line that did everything a disk could do.. just slower.
That is very important as all other tapes are used and handled very
different from TU58.
So with that a Rt11 build for TU58 is exactly the same as RL02 or RX02
save for the DD driver is used instead.
I've never spent much time on sims for PDP11s as I have the real thing
and many of them.
Allison
Yes, it was a typo, thanks for pointing out the
obviousness (and my
forgetting to manually proofread that part of the message).
I just didn't want
someone not as familiar with the OS to struggle with
a command that would definitely not work as intended.
Still, the point remains, it seems a bit easier
then VTSERVER to just
do it via a TU58 emulator, especially if VTSERVER ignores the bad
blocks on the real media.
Do you have a recipe for converting various non-TU58
images (such as
RL02) to a TU58 image so that it can be put onto the emulator and
then transfered to the target system?
Many of the images floating around are RL02, RX33, or other kinds of
rotating media/disk images and not tape images. What is the right
way to turn them into tape images for such an emulator?
Thanks.
Chris
4:50 p.m.
Is VTSERVER a TU58 emulator? I've never actually personally used it.
But yes, an RT-11 build for the TU58 uses the DD.SYS driver. Though,
building it for an oversize TU58 image is the same, just with the
modified driver replacing the "plain, vanilla" DD.SYS. (You can get
the modified driver onto a disk image on your PC via PUTR. You can
even skip using an emulator altogether and just build images in PUTR.)
I've used PDP-11 sims for a while, mostly because I've only *JUST* got
my hands on a real PDP-11 (11/23 w/256KB RAM, DLVJ-1, and RQDX3);
though I'm relying on the oversized TU58 images as my disk media as I
have no real disks unfortunately. (So the RL02 sized TU58 images,
though slightly slow, provide me an actual usable RT-11 environment
(I've DECUS C and the RT-11 BASIC on my system "tape" while the second
TU58 is my data "tape").) I'm also negotiating for a VT-103 as well.
On 22 May 2011 09:06, allison <ajp166 at verizon.net> wrote:
On 05/21/2011 06:57 PM, Chris Elmquist wrote:
On Saturday (05/21/2011 at 03:18PM -0400), Christian Gauger-Cosgrove
wrote:
Simple with an emulator running said disk images you have the tools
and source files to build a tape image.
NOTE: Vtserver aka tu58 emulator was simply a block addressable device on
the end of a serial line that did everything a disk could do.. just slower.
That is very important as all other tapes are used and handled very
different from TU58.
So with that a Rt11 build for TU58 is exactly the same as RL02 or RX02
save for the DD driver is used instead.
I've never spent much time on sims for PDP11s as I have the real thing
and many of them.
Allison
Yes, it was a typo, thanks for pointing out the obviousness (and my
forgetting to manually proofread that part of the message).
I just didn't want someone not as familiar with the OS to struggle with
a command that would definitely not work as intended.
Still, the point remains, it seems a bit easier
then VTSERVER to just
do it via a TU58 emulator, especially if VTSERVER ignores the bad
blocks on the real media.
Do you have a recipe for converting various non-TU58 images (such as
RL02) to a TU58 image so that it can be put onto the emulator and
then transfered to the target system?
Many of the images floating around are RL02, RX33, or other kinds of
rotating media/disk images and not tape images. ?What is the right
way to turn them into tape images for such an emulator?
Thanks.
Chris
6:19 p.m.
On 05/22/2011 04:50 PM, Christian Gauger-Cosgrove wrote:
Is VTSERVER a TU58 emulator? I've never actually
personally used it.
But yes, an RT-11 build for the TU58 uses the DD.SYS driver. Though,
building it for an oversize TU58 image is the same, just with the
modified driver replacing the "plain, vanilla" DD.SYS. (You can get
the modified driver onto a disk image on your PC via PUTR. You can
even skip using an emulator altogether and just build images in PUTR.)
I've used PDP-11 sims for a while, mostly because I've only *JUST* got
my hands on a real PDP-11 (11/23 w/256KB RAM, DLVJ-1, and RQDX3);
though I'm relying on the oversized TU58 images as my disk media as I
have no real disks unfortunately. (So the RL02 sized TU58 images,
though slightly slow, provide me an actual usable RT-11 environment
(I've DECUS C and the RT-11 BASIC on my system "tape" while the second
TU58 is my data "tape").) I'm also negotiating for a VT-103 as well.
My collection includes a few real TU58s working. My fun 11 that is the
most
portable one is:
BA11VA
11/23
512K ram
DLV11J
MRV21 (holds a boot for tu58)
I run RT11XM on it and the first boot cycle load the base image and then
inits
VM: and then copies the system to it and boots VM. After that the
system is
fairly useful as most mundane tasks do not hit the tape. It ends up
with about
half of the 512K as virtual disk and XM running in the other half. I do
this on
the larger systems running RX02 or RX50 with 2mb ram installed and that
really
is nicer.
FYI: for those that have Qbus 11s disks are possible, you need a
RQDX1/2/3, cables
and the module from the BA123 (or BA23) to break the 50wide cable to MFM
hard
disk AND 34pin floppy (RX50, RX33). If you can't find a RX50 or RX33
then hunt
down anything 5.25" 80track that can be jumpered to work like a TEAC
FD55GFR.
the preferred distribution board is the one out of the BA123 as it
supports more
of a given media and different possible media. the bridge baord
requires power
but if need be it can be hand wired if the backplane lacks room.
Generally RQDX controllers are easy to find but most people bemoan the
lack of
MFM hard disks. But for a floppy only system it can be setup for two
RX50 or
two RX33s or two RX23s. RT11 supports MSCP controllers of all versions.
The preferred controller is the later versions of RQDX3 as the late
firmware will also
run 3.5" 800k (RX23/22) which uses bacially PC compatable 3.5" media and
it also
supports the RX33 drive at both 400K side and 1.6MB side. Even without
the late
firmware Most dial denity 3.5" drives are supportable at the lower
density of 400K
single sided (same as RX50). For that you that do this will have to use
a PC to
format media or a mVAX2000 or for those that have it X11 diagnostics.
I've taken a 11/23 (m8186), 4 M8059 (1MB of ram total), MRV21 rom card,
DRV11J M8043, RQDX3/distribution into a 12 slot dual wide cage and with
a DEC BA11 supply (RTC, Bevent-L, and reset support via standard 3 switch
panel) into a finished plywood box with two RX33s as a lugable and useful
system. The terminal is laptop with minicom or a real VT320 It's light and
runs RTXM nicely.
Before any one gets upset with that apparent abomination it's built with
excess spares for the other six Qbus 11s from LSI11 through 11/73. No
Qbus 11s were executed to build it. Of all my Qbus-11s it's the handiest
as by PDP11 standards its very portable.
Allison
On 22 May 2011 09:06, allison<ajp166 at verizon.net> wrote:
> On 05/21/2011 06:57 PM, Chris Elmquist wrote:
>> On Saturday (05/21/2011 at 03:18PM -0400), Christian Gauger-Cosgrove
>> wrote:
>>> Yes, it was a typo, thanks for pointing out the obviousness (and my
>>> forgetting to manually proofread that part of the message).
>> I just didn't want someone not as familiar with the OS to struggle with
>> a command that would definitely not work as intended.
>>
>>> Still, the point remains, it seems a bit easier then VTSERVER to just
>>> do it via a TU58 emulator, especially if VTSERVER ignores the bad
>>> blocks on the real media.
>> Do you have a recipe for converting various non-TU58 images (such as
>> RL02) to a TU58 image so that it can be put onto the emulator and
>> then transfered to the target system?
>>
>> Many of the images floating around are RL02, RX33, or other kinds of
>> rotating media/disk images and not tape images. What is the right
>> way to turn them into tape images for such an emulator?
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>> Chris
>>
> Simple with an emulator running said disk images you have the tools
> and source files to build a tape image.
>
> NOTE: Vtserver aka tu58 emulator was simply a block addressable device on
> the end of a serial line that did everything a disk could do.. just slower.
> That is very important as all other tapes are used and handled very
> different from TU58.
>
> So with that a Rt11 build for TU58 is exactly the same as RL02 or RX02
> save for the DD driver is used instead.
>
> I've never spent much time on sims for PDP11s as I have the real thing
> and many of them.
>
>
>
> Allison
>
>
>
>
10:19 p.m.
Allison wrote:
The preferred controller is the later versions of
RQDX3 as the late
firmware will also
run 3.5" 800k (RX23/22) which uses bacially PC compatable 3.5" media
and it also
supports the RX33 drive at both 400K side and 1.6MB side. Even
without the late
firmware Most dial denity 3.5" drives are supportable at the lower
density of 400K
single sided (same as RX50). For that you that do this will have to
use a PC to
format media or a mVAX2000 or for those that have it X11 diagnostics.
I have an RQDX3 on a PDP-11/73 with dual RX33 drives. The only
capacity I have ever seen is 2400 blocks or 1.2 MB using PC HD
5 1/4" diskettes, probably at 15 sectors per track.
I did notice that for the VERY FIRST TIME, DEC supported the
RX33 to be LLF (Low Level Formatted) directly by RT-11 using
the "FORMAT DU0:" command.
Could you please clarify the capacity of the RX33 drives and how
it is possible to have 400K and 1.6 MB capacities? I know that
your information is almost always correct, so I am wondering what
I am missing? Or have you confused the 5 1/4" RX33 capacity with
the capacity of the 3.5" RX23 and RX22 media?
Jerome Fine
24 May
24 May
10:30 a.m.
Ooh, I like the BA11VA chassis, it's quite "cute" in it's compactness.
Though, I'm more partial to the VT-103 -- which I'm still trying to
get from the person who I know has one -- mostly becuase it's a QBUS
'11 in a VT-100 with real TU58 mounted under the CRT (or at least it
was an option to have the TU58, I think; I'm not sure, I have to go
check the BitSavers documentation again).
My 11/23 is currently in a PDP-11/03L chassis (9-slot, quad-width,
Q18/CD backplane). Interms of cards in it the system, I have an 11/23
CPU (with MMU, no FPP, or CIS), 256KB RAM made by a tird-party, DLVJ-1
quad-SLU, RQDX3, M9058 distributor board for the RQDX3 and the
BDV11-YA 18-bit bootstrap/diagnotics/terminator board.
It's currently hooked up to my spare PC, which provides both the
terminal, and TU58 emulation to the system. I currently have the
system booting RT-11FB; I'd rather boot RT-11XM, but I'm having
difficulty modifying the DDX.SYS driver.
Right now I'm looking for disks and diskettes for my system... as well
as generally improving the system. (I'd like to go to Q22 serpentine,
and an 11/73 with enough RAM and disk to run 2.11 BSD; but that might
be slightly difficult given my lack of money, and in-)ability to go
and get anything.)
Your luggable 11/23 sounds pretty neat. Do you have any photos of it?
Cheers to you,
-- Christian
On 22 May 2011 18:19, allison <ajp166 at verizon.net> wrote:
On 05/22/2011 04:50 PM, Christian Gauger-Cosgrove
wrote:
Is VTSERVER a TU58 emulator? I've never actually personally used it.
But yes, an RT-11 build for the TU58 uses the DD.SYS driver. Though,
building it for an oversize TU58 image is the same, just with the
modified driver replacing the "plain, vanilla" DD.SYS. (You can get
the modified driver onto a disk image on your PC via PUTR. You can
even skip using an emulator altogether and just build images in PUTR.)
I've used PDP-11 sims for a while, mostly because I've only *JUST* got
my hands on a real PDP-11 (11/23 w/256KB RAM, DLVJ-1, and RQDX3);
though I'm relying on the oversized TU58 images as my disk media as I
have no real disks unfortunately. (So the RL02 sized TU58 images,
though slightly slow, provide me an actual usable RT-11 environment
(I've DECUS C and the RT-11 BASIC on my system "tape" while the second
TU58 is my data "tape").) I'm also negotiating for a VT-103 as well.
My collection includes a few real TU58s working. ?My fun 11 that is the most
portable one is:
BA11VA
11/23
512K ram
DLV11J
MRV21 (holds a boot for tu58)
I run RT11XM on it and the first boot cycle load the base image and then
inits
VM: and then copies the system to it and boots VM. ?After that the system is
fairly useful as most mundane tasks do not hit the tape. ?It ends up with
about
half of the 512K as virtual disk and XM running in the other half. ?I do
this ?on
the larger systems running RX02 or RX50 with 2mb ram installed and that
really
is nicer.
FYI: for those that have Qbus 11s disks are possible, you need a RQDX1/2/3,
cables
and the module from the BA123 (or BA23) to break the 50wide cable to MFM
hard
disk AND 34pin floppy (RX50, RX33). ?If you can't find a RX50 or RX33 then
hunt
down anything 5.25" 80track that can be jumpered to work like a TEAC
FD55GFR.
the preferred distribution board is the one out of the BA123 as it supports
more
of a given media and different possible media. ?the bridge baord requires
power
but if need be it can be hand wired if the backplane lacks room.
Generally RQDX controllers are easy to find but most people bemoan the lack
of
MFM hard disks. ?But for a floppy only system it can be setup for two RX50
or
two RX33s or two RX23s. ?RT11 supports MSCP controllers of all versions.
The preferred controller is the later versions of RQDX3 as the late firmware
will also
run 3.5" 800k (RX23/22) which uses bacially PC compatable 3.5" media and it
also
supports the RX33 drive at both 400K side and 1.6MB side. ?Even without the
late
firmware Most dial denity 3.5" drives are supportable at the lower density
of 400K
single sided (same as RX50). ?For that you that do this will have to use a
PC to
format media or a mVAX2000 or for those that have it X11 diagnostics.
I've taken a 11/23 (m8186), ?4 M8059 (1MB of ram total), MRV21 rom card,
DRV11J M8043, RQDX3/distribution into a 12 slot dual wide cage and with
a DEC BA11 supply (RTC, ?Bevent-L, and reset support via standard 3 switch
panel) into a finished plywood box with two RX33s as a lugable and useful
system. The terminal is laptop with minicom or a real VT320 ?It's light and
runs RTXM nicely.
Before any one gets upset with that apparent abomination it's built with
excess spares for the other six Qbus 11s from LSI11 through 11/73. ?No
Qbus 11s were executed to build it. ?Of all my Qbus-11s it's the handiest
as by PDP11 standards its very portable.
Allison
On 22 May 2011 09:06, allison<ajp166 at verizon.net> ?wrote:
>
> On 05/21/2011 06:57 PM, Chris Elmquist wrote:
>>
>> On Saturday (05/21/2011 at 03:18PM -0400), Christian Gauger-Cosgrove
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Yes, it was a typo, thanks for pointing out the obviousness (and my
>>> forgetting to manually proofread that part of the message).
>>
>> I just didn't want someone not as familiar with the OS to struggle with
>> a command that would definitely not work as intended.
>>
>>> Still, the point remains, it seems a bit easier then VTSERVER to just
>>> do it via a TU58 emulator, especially if VTSERVER ignores the bad
>>> blocks on the real media.
>>
>> Do you have a recipe for converting various non-TU58 images (such as
>> RL02) to a TU58 image so that it can be put onto the emulator and
>> then transfered to the target system?
>>
>> Many of the images floating around are RL02, RX33, or other kinds of
>> rotating media/disk images and not tape images. ?What is the right
>> way to turn them into tape images for such an emulator?
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>> Chris
>>
> Simple with an emulator running said disk images you have the tools
> and source files to build a tape image.
>
> NOTE: Vtserver aka tu58 emulator was simply a block addressable device on
> the end of a serial line that did everything a disk could do.. just
> slower.
> That is very important as all other tapes are used and handled very
> different from TU58.
>
> So with that a Rt11 build for TU58 is exactly the same as RL02 or RX02
> save for the DD driver is used instead.
>
> I've never spent much time on sims for PDP11s as I have the real thing
> and many of them.
>
>
>
> Allison
>
>
>
>
11:35 a.m.
On 05/24/2011 10:30 AM, Christian Gauger-Cosgrove wrote:
Ooh, I like the BA11VA chassis, it's quite
"cute" in it's compactness.
Though, I'm more partial to the VT-103 -- which I'm still trying to
get from the person who I know has one -- mostly becuase it's a QBUS
'11 in a VT-100 with real TU58 mounted under the CRT (or at least it
was an option to have the TU58, I think; I'm not sure, I have to go
check the BitSavers documentation again).
That combo is possible IF the PDT110 case was hybrided with
the VT103 internal hardware. I believe there were some of those
made that way for the printing/typesetting industry.
My BA11VA was my first 11 back in '79. The TU58 used with it
is in a similar box so they stack nice and the BA11 provides the
power.
My 11/23 is currently in a PDP-11/03L chassis (9-slot,
quad-width,
Q18/CD backplane). Interms of cards in it the system, I have an 11/23
CPU (with MMU, no FPP, or CIS), 256KB RAM made by a tird-party, DLVJ-1
quad-SLU, RQDX3, M9058 distributor board for the RQDX3 and the
BDV11-YA 18-bit bootstrap/diagnotics/terminator board.
It's currently hooked up to my spare PC, which provides both the
terminal, and TU58 emulation to the system. I currently have the
system booting RT-11FB; I'd rather boot RT-11XM, but I'm having
difficulty modifying the DDX.SYS driver.
I have VT100, Vt125, Vt185 (100+125 using factory board),
several VT320 and a VT330(color). They just work better
than PCs.
Right now I'm looking for disks and diskettes for
my system... as well
as generally improving the system. (I'd like to go to Q22 serpentine,
and an 11/73 with enough RAM and disk to run 2.11 BSD; but that might
be slightly difficult given my lack of money, and in-)ability to go
and get anything.)
I have my 11/73 and that a BA11S with a Q22 serpentine. Its
populated with 11/73, 4MB ram, RLV21/RL02, RQDX3(3 RD52s 1 RX33),
RX02, TK50, DEQNA in a 50inch corp cab. Thats the big system.
Others include two BA11S each with 11/23B, 1mb ram running RQDX2
controllers and a RD51, RX50.
Your luggable 11/23 sounds pretty neat. Do you have
any photos of it?
Sorry no, I haven't thought to. The dual width 12 slot case set the
dimensions
as 8" high. With that the drivers are oriented vertical with a bezel to
make
up the height (pair of TEAC 55GFR) and the PS is along side the card cage
with fans in between. Air flow was the real challange and it's in via
one side
of the back and out via the other side of the back so that it flows
across the
PS through a divider holding the fans (10V from ba23 with thermal speed
control)
across the 12slot cage and out that side through a grill (perforated
aluminum).
The H780 PS with the three switches are front accessable with the
floppies and
a 4 port serial panel on the rear next to the IEC power connector. The
back folds
down on a piano hinge for access.
Simple box of minimum size to hold all, no miters edges or the like just
a box.
One of the planned changes is to put a ST225 I have in place of one of
the floppies.
I've since looked at it and have a slot left for a VK170 video card.
Also found a
serial ascii keyboard at a flea (boot sale). So I'm considering junking
that case and
making it bigger to fit a 7" crt or LCD to take the video from the VK170
and having a
pocket for the keyboard. Then it would be self contained system but
easier to
transport and faster than a PDT. The end result would be a PDP11
version of
Darth Vaders lunch box (KAYPRO).
Allison
Cheers to you,
-- Christian
On 22 May 2011 18:19, allison<ajp166 at verizon.net> wrote:
> On 05/22/2011 04:50 PM, Christian Gauger-Cosgrove wrote:
>> Is VTSERVER a TU58 emulator? I've never actually personally used it.
>>
>> But yes, an RT-11 build for the TU58 uses the DD.SYS driver. Though,
>> building it for an oversize TU58 image is the same, just with the
>> modified driver replacing the "plain, vanilla" DD.SYS. (You can get
>> the modified driver onto a disk image on your PC via PUTR. You can
>> even skip using an emulator altogether and just build images in PUTR.)
>>
>> I've used PDP-11 sims for a while, mostly because I've only *JUST* got
>> my hands on a real PDP-11 (11/23 w/256KB RAM, DLVJ-1, and RQDX3);
>> though I'm relying on the oversized TU58 images as my disk media as I
>> have no real disks unfortunately. (So the RL02 sized TU58 images,
>> though slightly slow, provide me an actual usable RT-11 environment
>> (I've DECUS C and the RT-11 BASIC on my system "tape" while the
second
>> TU58 is my data "tape").) I'm also negotiating for a VT-103 as
well.
>>
> My collection includes a few real TU58s working. My fun 11 that is the most
> portable one is:
>
> BA11VA
> 11/23
> 512K ram
> DLV11J
> MRV21 (holds a boot for tu58)
>
> I run RT11XM on it and the first boot cycle load the base image and then
> inits
> VM: and then copies the system to it and boots VM. After that the system is
> fairly useful as most mundane tasks do not hit the tape. It ends up with
> about
> half of the 512K as virtual disk and XM running in the other half. I do
> this on
> the larger systems running RX02 or RX50 with 2mb ram installed and that
> really
> is nicer.
>
> FYI: for those that have Qbus 11s disks are possible, you need a RQDX1/2/3,
> cables
> and the module from the BA123 (or BA23) to break the 50wide cable to MFM
> hard
> disk AND 34pin floppy (RX50, RX33). If you can't find a RX50 or RX33 then
> hunt
> down anything 5.25" 80track that can be jumpered to work like a TEAC
> FD55GFR.
> the preferred distribution board is the one out of the BA123 as it supports
> more
> of a given media and different possible media. the bridge baord requires
> power
> but if need be it can be hand wired if the backplane lacks room.
>
> Generally RQDX controllers are easy to find but most people bemoan the lack
> of
> MFM hard disks. But for a floppy only system it can be setup for two RX50
> or
> two RX33s or two RX23s. RT11 supports MSCP controllers of all versions.
>
> The preferred controller is the later versions of RQDX3 as the late firmware
> will also
> run 3.5" 800k (RX23/22) which uses bacially PC compatable 3.5" media and
it
> also
> supports the RX33 drive at both 400K side and 1.6MB side. Even without the
> late
> firmware Most dial denity 3.5" drives are supportable at the lower density
> of 400K
> single sided (same as RX50). For that you that do this will have to use a
> PC to
> format media or a mVAX2000 or for those that have it X11 diagnostics.
>
> I've taken a 11/23 (m8186), 4 M8059 (1MB of ram total), MRV21 rom card,
> DRV11J M8043, RQDX3/distribution into a 12 slot dual wide cage and with
> a DEC BA11 supply (RTC, Bevent-L, and reset support via standard 3 switch
> panel) into a finished plywood box with two RX33s as a lugable and useful
> system. The terminal is laptop with minicom or a real VT320 It's light and
> runs RTXM nicely.
>
> Before any one gets upset with that apparent abomination it's built with
> excess spares for the other six Qbus 11s from LSI11 through 11/73. No
> Qbus 11s were executed to build it. Of all my Qbus-11s it's the handiest
> as by PDP11 standards its very portable.
>
>
> Allison
>
>
>
>
>>
>> On 22 May 2011 09:06, allison<ajp166 at verizon.net> wrote:
>>> On 05/21/2011 06:57 PM, Chris Elmquist wrote:
>>>> On Saturday (05/21/2011 at 03:18PM -0400), Christian Gauger-Cosgrove
>>>> wrote:
>>>>> Yes, it was a typo, thanks for pointing out the obviousness (and my
>>>>> forgetting to manually proofread that part of the message).
>>>> I just didn't want someone not as familiar with the OS to struggle
with
>>>> a command that would definitely not work as intended.
>>>>
>>>>> Still, the point remains, it seems a bit easier then VTSERVER to
just
>>>>> do it via a TU58 emulator, especially if VTSERVER ignores the bad
>>>>> blocks on the real media.
>>>> Do you have a recipe for converting various non-TU58 images (such as
>>>> RL02) to a TU58 image so that it can be put onto the emulator and
>>>> then transfered to the target system?
>>>>
>>>> Many of the images floating around are RL02, RX33, or other kinds of
>>>> rotating media/disk images and not tape images. What is the right
>>>> way to turn them into tape images for such an emulator?
>>>>
>>>> Thanks.
>>>>
>>>> Chris
>>>>
>>> Simple with an emulator running said disk images you have the tools
>>> and source files to build a tape image.
>>>
>>> NOTE: Vtserver aka tu58 emulator was simply a block addressable device on
>>> the end of a serial line that did everything a disk could do.. just
>>> slower.
>>> That is very important as all other tapes are used and handled very
>>> different from TU58.
>>>
>>> So with that a Rt11 build for TU58 is exactly the same as RL02 or RX02
>>> save for the DD driver is used instead.
>>>
>>> I've never spent much time on sims for PDP11s as I have the real thing
>>> and many of them.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Allison
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>
25 May
25 May
10:10 a.m.
Since I'm finally home and not busy, I've gotten a chance to review at
the BitSavers documentation for the VT-103. It did support having a
TU58 crammed into the space under the normal VT-100 CRT. It was a Q18
4x4 serpentine backplane with lots of customization/"specialness" to
work in the VT-100 enclosure. Put an 11/23 and an MXV11-BF into row
one and you have three rows of quad slots left in the system. (Which
should provide more then enough space for expansion. As you've got CPU
and 128KB RAM, 2 SLU, clock and ROM all in those two boards.) I'd
probably put an RQDX3 or CMD CQD-22X SCSI controller for mass storage,
and another 128KB RAM board, to bring the system to a full 256KB of
RAM. And that still leaves two rows empty. What else can one stick
into the VT-103? Well, I'm sure you can think of something. (For
absolute hilarity, since RSTS/E 10.1 can run on an 11/23 with 256KB
RAM, add a DELQA, DLVJ-1 and two DZQ-11 modules and have a desktop
timesharing box with network connectivity.)
I would prefer a real VT-100 (or VT-125), however I have the slight issues of:
1. Can't find anything in Hamilton.
2. Don't have money.
3. I can't drive any where to pick anything up (because of visual
impairment - read: blindness in one eye, and crap vision in the other
- I can't drive a car).
So that's why I'm currently limited to using a PC. Well that and a
slight lack of space.
I had a silly idea of what to do with spare QBUS 11 but it would be
more silly then anything. Since I'm a bit into the steampunk
aesthetic; built a QBUS backplane and PSU into an ornate small cabinet
so that it looks like Victorian era furniture, and put a table-top
KSR-33 (caseless) or KSR-35 (either caseless or with case) on top of
the cabinet and have a "Victorian-11". (Since the front panel on most
QBUS 11 systems is so simplistic one could also make the panel look
similarly "old." It would be an interesting conversation piece, but
mildly odd in apperance. Though, to keep the look you'd have to mount
the disk drives behind a small door (otherwise you have Victorian
furniture... with a floppy disk drive in it).
On 24 May 2011 11:35, allison <ajp166 at verizon.net> wrote:
On 05/24/2011 10:30 AM, Christian Gauger-Cosgrove
wrote:
Ooh, I like the BA11VA chassis, it's quite "cute" in it's compactness.
Though, I'm more partial to the VT-103 -- which I'm still trying to
get from the person who I know has one -- mostly becuase it's a QBUS
'11 in a VT-100 with real TU58 mounted under the CRT (or at least it
was an option to have the TU58, I think; I'm not sure, I have to go
check the BitSavers documentation again).
That combo is possible IF the PDT110 case was ?hybrided with
the VT103 internal hardware. ?I believe there were some of those
made that way for the printing/typesetting industry.
My BA11VA was my first 11 back in '79. ?The TU58 used with it
is in a similar box so they stack nice and the BA11 provides the
power.
My 11/23 is currently in a PDP-11/03L chassis
(9-slot, quad-width,
Q18/CD backplane). Interms of cards in it the system, I have an 11/23
CPU (with MMU, no FPP, or CIS), 256KB RAM made by a tird-party, DLVJ-1
quad-SLU, RQDX3, M9058 distributor board for the RQDX3 and the
BDV11-YA 18-bit bootstrap/diagnotics/terminator board.
It's currently hooked up to my spare PC, which provides both the
terminal, and TU58 emulation to the system. I currently have the
system booting RT-11FB; I'd rather boot RT-11XM, but I'm having
difficulty modifying the DDX.SYS driver.
I have VT100, Vt125, Vt185 (100+125 using factory board),
several VT320 and a VT330(color). ?They just work better
than PCs.
Right now I'm looking for disks and diskettes
for my system... as well
as generally improving the system. (I'd like to go to Q22 serpentine,
and an 11/73 with enough RAM and disk to run 2.11 BSD; but that might
be slightly difficult given my lack of money, and in-)ability to go
and get anything.)
I have my 11/73 and that a BA11S with a Q22 serpentine. ?Its
populated with 11/73, 4MB ram, RLV21/RL02, RQDX3(3 RD52s 1 RX33),
RX02, TK50, DEQNA in a 50inch corp cab. ?Thats the big system.
Others include two BA11S each with 11/23B, 1mb ram running RQDX2
controllers and a RD51, RX50.
Your luggable 11/23 sounds pretty neat. Do you
have any photos of it?
Sorry no, I haven't thought to. ?The dual width 12 slot case set the
dimensions
as 8" high. ?With that the drivers are oriented vertical with a bezel to
make
up the height (pair of TEAC 55GFR) and the PS is along side the card cage
with fans in between. ?Air flow was the real challange and it's in via one
side
of the back and out via the other side of the back so that it flows across
the
PS through a divider holding the fans (10V from ba23 with thermal speed
control)
across the 12slot cage and out that side through a grill (perforated
aluminum).
The H780 PS with the three switches are front accessable with the floppies
and
a 4 port serial panel on the rear next to the IEC power connector. ?The back
folds
down on a piano hinge for access.
Simple box of minimum size to hold all, no miters edges or the like just a
box.
One of the planned changes is to put a ST225 I have in place of one of the
floppies.
I've since looked at it and have a slot left for a VK170 video card. ?Also
found a
serial ascii keyboard at a flea (boot sale). ?So I'm considering junking
that case and
making it bigger to fit a 7" crt or LCD to take the video from the VK170 and
having a
pocket for the keyboard. ?Then it would be self contained system but easier
to
transport and faster than a PDT. ?The end result would be a PDP11 version of
Darth Vaders lunch box (KAYPRO).
Allison
Cheers to you,
-- Christian
On 22 May 2011 18:19, allison<ajp166 at verizon.net> ?wrote:
>
> On 05/22/2011 04:50 PM, Christian Gauger-Cosgrove wrote:
>>
>> Is VTSERVER a TU58 emulator? I've never actually personally used it.
>>
>> But yes, an RT-11 build for the TU58 uses the DD.SYS driver. Though,
>> building it for an oversize TU58 image is the same, just with the
>> modified driver replacing the "plain, vanilla" DD.SYS. (You can get
>> the modified driver onto a disk image on your PC via PUTR. You can
>> even skip using an emulator altogether and just build images in PUTR.)
>>
>> I've used PDP-11 sims for a while, mostly because I've only *JUST* got
>> my hands on a real PDP-11 (11/23 w/256KB RAM, DLVJ-1, and RQDX3);
>> though I'm relying on the oversized TU58 images as my disk media as I
>> have no real disks unfortunately. (So the RL02 sized TU58 images,
>> though slightly slow, provide me an actual usable RT-11 environment
>> (I've DECUS C and the RT-11 BASIC on my system "tape" while the
second
>> TU58 is my data "tape").) I'm also negotiating for a VT-103 as
well.
>>
> My collection includes a few real TU58s working. ?My fun 11 that is the
> most
> portable one is:
>
> BA11VA
> 11/23
> 512K ram
> DLV11J
> MRV21 (holds a boot for tu58)
>
> I run RT11XM on it and the first boot cycle load the base image and then
> inits
> VM: and then copies the system to it and boots VM. ?After that the system
> is
> fairly useful as most mundane tasks do not hit the tape. ?It ends up with
> about
> half of the 512K as virtual disk and XM running in the other half. ?I do
> this ?on
> the larger systems running RX02 or RX50 with 2mb ram installed and that
> really
> is nicer.
>
> FYI: for those that have Qbus 11s disks are possible, you need a
> RQDX1/2/3,
> cables
> and the module from the BA123 (or BA23) to break the 50wide cable to MFM
> hard
> disk AND 34pin floppy (RX50, RX33). ?If you can't find a RX50 or RX33
> then
> hunt
> down anything 5.25" 80track that can be jumpered to work like a TEAC
> FD55GFR.
> the preferred distribution board is the one out of the BA123 as it
> supports
> more
> of a given media and different possible media. ?the bridge baord requires
> power
> but if need be it can be hand wired if the backplane lacks room.
>
> Generally RQDX controllers are easy to find but most people bemoan the
> lack
> of
> MFM hard disks. ?But for a floppy only system it can be setup for two
> RX50
> or
> two RX33s or two RX23s. ?RT11 supports MSCP controllers of all versions.
>
> The preferred controller is the later versions of RQDX3 as the late
> firmware
> will also
> run 3.5" 800k (RX23/22) which uses bacially PC compatable 3.5" media and
> it
> also
> supports the RX33 drive at both 400K side and 1.6MB side. ?Even without
> the
> late
> firmware Most dial denity 3.5" drives are supportable at the lower
> density
> of 400K
> single sided (same as RX50). ?For that you that do this will have to use
> a
> PC to
> format media or a mVAX2000 or for those that have it X11 diagnostics.
>
> I've taken a 11/23 (m8186), ?4 M8059 (1MB of ram total), MRV21 rom card,
> DRV11J M8043, RQDX3/distribution into a 12 slot dual wide cage and with
> a DEC BA11 supply (RTC, ?Bevent-L, and reset support via standard 3
> switch
> panel) into a finished plywood box with two RX33s as a lugable and useful
> system. The terminal is laptop with minicom or a real VT320 ?It's light
> and
> runs RTXM nicely.
>
> Before any one gets upset with that apparent abomination it's built with
> excess spares for the other six Qbus 11s from LSI11 through 11/73. ?No
> Qbus 11s were executed to build it. ?Of all my Qbus-11s it's the handiest
> as by PDP11 standards its very portable.
>
>
> Allison
>
>
>
>
>>
>> On 22 May 2011 09:06, allison<ajp166 at verizon.net> ? ?wrote:
>>>
>>> On 05/21/2011 06:57 PM, Chris Elmquist wrote:
>>>>
>>>> On Saturday (05/21/2011 at 03:18PM -0400), Christian Gauger-Cosgrove
>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Yes, it was a typo, thanks for pointing out the obviousness (and my
>>>>> forgetting to manually proofread that part of the message).
>>>>
>>>> I just didn't want someone not as familiar with the OS to struggle
>>>> with
>>>> a command that would definitely not work as intended.
>>>>
>>>>> Still, the point remains, it seems a bit easier then VTSERVER to
just
>>>>> do it via a TU58 emulator, especially if VTSERVER ignores the bad
>>>>> blocks on the real media.
>>>>
>>>> Do you have a recipe for converting various non-TU58 images (such as
>>>> RL02) to a TU58 image so that it can be put onto the emulator and
>>>> then transfered to the target system?
>>>>
>>>> Many of the images floating around are RL02, RX33, or other kinds of
>>>> rotating media/disk images and not tape images. ?What is the right
>>>> way to turn them into tape images for such an emulator?
>>>>
>>>> Thanks.
>>>>
>>>> Chris
>>>>
>>> Simple with an emulator running said disk images you have the tools
>>> and source files to build a tape image.
>>>
>>> NOTE: Vtserver aka tu58 emulator was simply a block addressable device
>>> on
>>> the end of a serial line that did everything a disk could do.. just
>>> slower.
>>> That is very important as all other tapes are used and handled very
>>> different from TU58.
>>>
>>> So with that a Rt11 build for TU58 is exactly the same as RL02 or RX02
>>> save for the DD driver is used instead.
>>>
>>> I've never spent much time on sims for PDP11s as I have the real thing
>>> and many of them.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Allison
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>
3:57 p.m.
On 05/25/2011 10:10 AM, Christian Gauger-Cosgrove wrote:
Since I'm finally home and not busy, I've
gotten a chance to review at
the BitSavers documentation for the VT-103. It did support having a
TU58 crammed into the space under the normal VT-100 CRT. It was a Q18
4x4 serpentine backplane with lots of customization/"specialness" to
work in the VT-100 enclosure. Put an 11/23 and an MXV11-BF into row
one and you have three rows of quad slots left in the system. (Which
should provide more then enough space for expansion. As you've got CPU
and 128KB RAM, 2 SLU, clock and ROM all in those two boards.) I'd
probably put an RQDX3 or CMD CQD-22X SCSI controller for mass storage,
and another 128KB RAM board, to bring the system to a full 256KB of
RAM. And that still leaves two rows empty. What else can one stick
into the VT-103? Well, I'm sure you can think of something. (For
absolute hilarity, since RSTS/E 10.1 can run on an 11/23 with 256KB
RAM, add a DELQA, DLVJ-1 and two DZQ-11 modules and have a desktop
timesharing box with network connectivity.)
why not find a suitable Qbus uVAX and stuff it in there. Thats been
done and VMS
supports networking and is available.
I would prefer a real VT-100 (or VT-125), however I
have the slight issues of:
Vt103 and VT100 are essentially the same.
1. Can't find anything in Hamilton.
Call
Dave Dunfield, not that close but he know the locality better than me.
2. Don't have money.
Can't help, thats
unfortunately a common problem.
3. I can't drive any where to pick anything up
(because of visual
impairment - read: blindness in one eye, and crap vision in the other
- I can't drive a car).
Thats a limitation but not as serious a problem as finding the gear is
the first step.
So that's why I'm currently limited to using a
PC. Well that and a
slight lack of space.
You don't want to see my room, 10x14 ft ignoring closets there are 34
computers,
my ham radio and my workbench where I build stuff and it's my business desk.
I had a silly idea of what to do with spare QBUS 11
but it would be
more silly then anything. Since I'm a bit into the steampunk
aesthetic; built a QBUS backplane and PSU into an ornate small cabinet
so that it looks like Victorian era furniture, and put a table-top
KSR-33 (caseless) or KSR-35 (either caseless or with case) on top of
the cabinet and have a "Victorian-11". (Since the front panel on most
QBUS 11 systems is so simplistic one could also make the panel look
similarly "old." It would be an interesting conversation piece, but
mildly odd in apperance. Though, to keep the look you'd have to mount
the disk drives behind a small door (otherwise you have Victorian
furniture... with a floppy disk drive in it).
Nothing to stop you from doing that. A loose backplane and power supply
is all you need. Insure there is plenty of transverse airflow across
the boards
and your good.
Allison
23 May
23 May
11:06 a.m.
On Sun, May 22, 2011 at 4:50 PM, Christian Gauger-Cosgrove
<captainkirk359 at gmail.com> wrote:
Is VTSERVER a TU58 emulator? I've never actually
personally used it.
No. It's a standalone application for use on bare metal on the target
side. The "server" side is any modern machine that can compile a C
program with certain I/O library requirements (not onerous), that can
inject a small bootstrap to the target PDP-11 via ODT if available (or
you can toggle in the bootstrap if ODT is not available) then via the
bootstrap, the vtserver program can inject a pre-compiled PDP-11
client program that knows the vtserver protocol and knows a bit about
common PDP-11 mass storage devices, so you can take 2BSD tape images
and write them to disks on the PDP-11 side via the console serial
port. The program is not so narrowly written that it's _only_ useful
for 2BSD loading, but that was the purpose for which it was written.
As mentioned elsewhere, the pre-compiled vtserver client uses the MUL
instruction, so will only run on a target machine with EIS, and the
client requires 192K of memory (reflecting back to the original
purpose of installing 2BSD, it requires that and more, so these
limitations aren't limitations for that use, only for use on smaller
systems and other target operating systems).
There are (at least) two threads going on here - one thread is "use
VTSERVER", the other thread is "use the TU58 bootstrap and OS driver
with a TU58 emulator that knows how to serve oversized TU58 images".
-ethan
22 May
22 May
4:37 p.m.
It's fine, though sorry for being a bit snippy, my <insert expletive
here> neighbour was being his wonderful self and got me all sour.
The way I convert non-TU58 images, to the RL02 sized image is:
1. Mount the media to be transferred onto the correct SIMH device.
2. Mount an RT-11 boot disk somewhere.
3. Mount a new RL02 image.
4. Boot RT-11.
5. Initialize the new RL02 (INITIALIZE/BADBLOCK).
6. Copy the files to the RL02.
7. Exit SIMH.
8. Mount the new RL02 to one of the emulated TU58 drives. (With either
an RT-11 that's been modified to work with RL02 sized images booting
from an RL02 sized image on emulated DD0:, or your real
RT-11 built
with the modified driver copying from the emulated - RL02 sized -
image to whatever disk you wish.)
To get a modified TU58 driver to RT-11 I use PUTR (find here:
http://www.dbit.com/pub/putr/ ) on my PC on the RT-11 install disk, to
replace a driver with the modified one. You can get a modified driver
ready to read RL02 sized TU58 images here:
http://www.fpns.net/willy/pdp11/tu58-emu.htm (Scroll down to a
hyperlink that reads "RT-11 DW.sys", it replaces the RT-11 DW.SYS
driver, which I believe was only used on the desktop PRO-whatever
systems.) The emulator I use is this one:
http://www.ak6dn.dyndns.org/PDP-11/TU58/tu58em/
I believe the fortuitous coincidence that SIMH RL02 images and TU58
images are readable in the emulator are because the TU58 is a block
addressable tape. In other words, it's a tape that acts like an
inordinately slow disk (just like TU55/TU56 DECtape... but not as
interesting to watch).
Cheers.
On 21 May 2011 18:57, Chris Elmquist <chrise at pobox.com> wrote:
On Saturday (05/21/2011 at 03:18PM -0400), Christian
Gauger-Cosgrove wrote:
Yes, it was a typo, thanks for pointing out the
obviousness (and my
forgetting to manually proofread that part of the message).
I just didn't want someone not as familiar with the OS to struggle with
a command that would definitely not work as intended.
Still, the point remains, it seems a bit easier
then VTSERVER to just
do it via a TU58 emulator, especially if VTSERVER ignores the bad
blocks on the real media.
Do you have a recipe for converting various non-TU58 images (such as
RL02) to a TU58 image so that it can be put onto the emulator and
then transfered to the target system?
Many of the images floating around are RL02, RX33, or other kinds of
rotating media/disk images and not tape images. ?What is the right
way to turn them into tape images for such an emulator?
Thanks.
Chris
--
Chris Elmquist
10:03 p.m.
Chris Elmquist wrote:
Do you have a recipe for converting various non-TU58
images (such as
RL02) to a TU58 image so that it can be put onto the emulator and
then transfered to the target system?
I believe that Allison already answered this question. However, since
VTSERVER
was also specified as part of the answer, there may have been some
confusion.
By itself, the TU-58 is a block addressable device that is identical to
every
hard drive EXCEPT:
(a) The speed is very slow since the data is transmitted over a serial line
(b) The capacity is very small - only 512 blocks.
When used as a DD: device, the TU-58 is presented to the RT-11
operating system not as a serial tape device, but as a disk drive with
a file directory.
There is absolutely no conversion needed to convert an RL02 image
to a TU-58 image other than factors associated with the available
number of blocks on a TU-58 and an RL02 (which has 20450 user
available blocks).
Exactly how this works when a TU-58 emulator is used, I am unable
to say since I have never used the emulator nor do I understand the
exact details. However, if a file of 20450 blocks is set up on the
TU-58 emulator and the changes applied to DD.SYS are made,
then RT-11 should have no difficulty in setting up a bootable
TU-58 emulation.
By the way, what are the changes necessary to DD.SYS to be
able to use 20450 blocks and why are they needed? I suspect
that they allow DUP.SAV to "INIT DD:" at the size of the TU-58
emulation? Am I correct?
Jerome Fine
9:38 p.m.
Christian Gauger-Cosgrove wrote:
As an idea to get RT-11 onto your RL01; why not try
using a TU58
emulator, with oversized tape images? There's a modified driver file
out there - very easy to find too - that'll let you have RT-11 think
the DECtape II tapes are the size of an RL02, which will let you boot
the RT-11 V5.3 installation pack on the emulator. From there, just
install RT-11 to the real RL01 as you would normally install RT-11.
It's simple to setup (and if you don't want to fiddle around with disk
images, asking will get you one from me or whoever else has done it
this way), and all you need on the PDP-11 side of things is a second
serial line. Also, it's relatively painless, as the RT-11 install
isn't all that difficult.
I understand what is required on the PDP-11 side of a TU-58 emulator since
I have a real DEC dual external TU-58 drive that I am able to use with real
TU-58 tapes.
What I am curious about is the specific hardware required for the TU-58
emulator? I assume that a serial port is required? Is the TU-58 emulator
able to run under Windows XP or must DOS be used? Or perhaps an
OS in-between such as Windows 98 SE?
In addition, my TU-58 drive uses a standard 10 pin cable with a standard
10 pin female connector on both ends - the CPU end plugs directly into
the DLV11-J port. What does the end of the 10 pin cable look like at the
TU-58 emulator?
I used to have a site that I could download to obtain the software for the
TU-58 emulator. Can you please provide a link address?
Jerome Fine
24 May
24 May
11:03 a.m.
In terms of hardware on the PC side of things, all one needs is a
serial port. The software I use (which I'm sure I linked; if not find
it here: http://www.ak6dn.dyndns.org/PDP-11/TU58/tu58em/ ) I currently
run on my Windows XP Pro SP3 system; it's also been tested under
Windows 2000 and Windows 2003 Server Standard by me), with the
oversized images.
The PC side of the cable is a nine-pin serial port, while the PDP-11
side is the 10-pin cable. The cable I use, has one side as the DLVJ1
connection (10-pin IDC, tab scraped off) and he other side as a DE9M
D-sub connector (i.e. the "PC serial port" connector, wired as a DTE).
The conenction between the systems is then made with a standard serial
null modem cable (I had a couple so I just used a that). (Plus wiring
the serial port on the '11 side of things as a DTE is the correct
way.)
The cable is wired as such: http://upload.cetafurs.com/dlvj1-de9m.png
Connect the DE9M serial port to a regular PC serial port via a null
modem. The DLVJ1 port should be configured for either 38400 or 9600
bps.
Cheers to you, and if you've any questions, feel free to ask.
-- Christian
On 22 May 2011 21:38, Jerome H. Fine <jhfinedp3k at compsys.to> wrote:
Christian
Gauger-Cosgrove wrote:
As an idea to get RT-11 onto your RL01; why not
try using a TU58
emulator, with oversized tape images? There's a modified driver file
out there - very easy to find too - that'll let you have RT-11 think
the DECtape II tapes are the size of an RL02, which will let you boot
the RT-11 V5.3 installation pack on the emulator. From there, just
install RT-11 to the real RL01 as you would normally install RT-11.
It's simple to setup (and if you don't want to fiddle around with disk
images, asking will get you one from me or whoever else has done it
this way), and all you need on the PDP-11 side of things is a second
serial line. Also, it's relatively painless, as the RT-11 install
isn't all that difficult.
I understand what is required on the PDP-11 side of a TU-58 emulator since
I have a real DEC dual external TU-58 drive that I am able to use with real
TU-58 tapes.
What I am curious about is the specific hardware required for the TU-58
emulator? ?I assume that a serial port is required? ?Is the TU-58 emulator
able to run under Windows XP or must DOS be used? ?Or perhaps an
OS in-between such as Windows 98 SE?
In addition, my TU-58 drive uses a standard 10 pin cable with a standard
10 pin female connector on both ends - the CPU end plugs directly into
the DLV11-J port. ?What does the end of the 10 pin cable look like at the
TU-58 emulator?
I used to have a site that I could download to obtain the software for the
TU-58 emulator. ?Can you please provide a link address?
Jerome Fine
12:20 p.m.
New subject: DOVE Bid Sperry Univac Mini at auction
There appears to be a complete dual rack Sperry Univac V72 minicomputer
in a currently open auction at Dove Bid.
auction is electronic manufacturing exchange #142 lot id is 35421
"Equipment Rack"
http://www.go-dove.com/event-15292/Electronic-Manufacturing-Exchange-142-On…
item is listed as an "equipment rack" but photos show what appears to be
a complete system including a V72 minicomputer with full front panel
controls, power units and a tape drive.
I'm lusting here but there's no way....
steve
12:40 p.m.
New subject: DOVE Bid Sperry Univac Mini at auction
On 5/24/11 9:20 AM, steve shumaker wrote:
item is listed as an "equipment rack" but
photos show what appears to be a complete system including a V72 minicomputer with full
front panel controls, power units and a tape drive.
I'm lusting here but there's no way....
Well, hopefully someone line Bill Maddox will go after this. V-series minis don't show
up very often.
25 May
25 May
11:58 a.m.
New subject: DOVE Bid Sperry Univac Mini at auction
-----Original Message-----
From: cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-
bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Al Kossow
Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2011 9:40 AM
To: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Subject: Re: DOVE Bid Sperry Univac Mini at auction
On 5/24/11 9:20 AM, steve shumaker wrote:
...or maybe someone like the Living Computer Museum. :-) Al, do you have any
docs for this? I wasn't able to find any on BitSavers. Cheers -- Ian
item is listed as an "equipment rack"
but photos show what appears to
be a complete system including a V72 minicomputer
with full front panel
controls, power units and a tape drive.
I'm lusting here but there's no way....
Well, hopefully someone line Bill Maddox will go after this. V-series
minis don't show up very often.
1:12 p.m.
New subject: DOVE Bid Sperry Univac Mini at auction
On 5/25/11 8:58 AM, Ian King wrote:
...or maybe someone like the Living Computer Museum.
:-) Al, do you have any docs for this? I wasn't able to find any on BitSavers.
Cheers -- Ian
I think all I have is a handbook. The 70 series was mostly sold while Sperry owned the
Varian
computer line, and I've not seen much from that time.
http://dimka.com/daily/external-pages/spies.com-~aek-orphanage.html
has a copy of my old spies web page. I did chase down "Second Source Computers"
around 5 years
ago, but they weren't very helpful.
2:25 p.m.
New subject: DOVE Bid Sperry Univac Mini at auction
ahh well... hopefully the winner was someone here. Certainly it would
seem that it was recognized as an item of interest (went for $1800!)
On 5/25/2011 10:12 AM, Al Kossow wrote:
On 5/25/11 8:58 AM, Ian King wrote:
...or maybe someone like the Living Computer
Museum. :-) Al, do you
have any docs for this? I wasn't able to find any on BitSavers.
Cheers -- Ian
I think all I have is a handbook. The 70 series was mostly sold while
Sperry owned the Varian
computer line, and I've not seen much from that time.
http://dimka.com/daily/external-pages/spies.com-~aek-orphanage.html
has a copy of my old spies web page. I did chase down "Second Source
Computers" around 5 years
ago, but they weren't very helpful.
5:52 p.m.
New subject: DOVE Bid Sperry Univac Mini at auction
I guess I'm too subtle - as if anyone would believe that! :-)
LCM was the winner of this auction. We will ship it to our location in Seattle and put it
on the list for restoration. So, this is "official" notice that we're
looking for documentation and software. Thanks! -- Ian
-----Original Message-----
From: cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-
bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of steve shumaker
Sent: Wednesday, May 25, 2011 11:26 AM
To: cctalk at classiccmp.org
Subject: Re: DOVE Bid Sperry Univac Mini at auction
ahh well... hopefully the winner was someone here. Certainly it would
seem that it was recognized as an item of interest (went for $1800!)
On 5/25/2011 10:12 AM, Al Kossow wrote:
On 5/25/11 8:58 AM, Ian King wrote:
> ...or maybe someone like the Living Computer Museum. :-) Al, do
you
>> have any docs for this? I wasn't able to find any on BitSavers.
>> Cheers -- Ian
>
> I think all I have is a handbook. The 70 series was mostly sold while
> Sperry owned the Varian
> computer line, and I've not seen much from that time.
>
> http://dimka.com/daily/external-pages/spies.com-~aek-orphanage.html
>
> has a copy of my old spies web page. I did chase down "Second Source
> Computers" around 5 years
> ago, but they weren't very helpful.
>
>
>
>
7:36 p.m.
New subject: DOVE Bid Sperry Univac Mini at auction
well then! totally cool.
at least my lusting was in support of a good cause.
steve
On 5/25/2011 2:52 PM, Ian King wrote:
I guess I'm too subtle - as if anyone would
believe that! :-)
LCM was the winner of this auction. We will ship it to our location in Seattle and put
it on the list for restoration. So, this is "official" notice that we're
looking for documentation and software. Thanks! -- Ian
-----Original Message-----
From: cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-
bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of steve shumaker
Sent: Wednesday, May 25, 2011 11:26 AM
To: cctalk at classiccmp.org
Subject: Re: DOVE Bid Sperry Univac Mini at auction
ahh well... hopefully the winner was someone here. Certainly it would
seem that it was recognized as an item of interest (went for $1800!)
On 5/25/2011 10:12 AM, Al Kossow wrote:
On 5/25/11 8:58 AM, Ian King wrote:
> ...or maybe someone like the Living Computer Museum. :-) Al, do
>
you
>> have any docs for this? I wasn't able to find any on BitSavers.
>> Cheers -- Ian
>>
> I think all I have is a handbook. The 70 series was mostly sold while
> Sperry owned the Varian
> computer line, and I've not seen much from that time.
>
> http://dimka.com/daily/external-pages/spies.com-~aek-orphanage.html
>
> has a copy of my old spies web page. I did chase down "Second Source
> Computers" around 5 years
> ago, but they weren't very helpful.
>
>
>
>
>
8:16 p.m.
New subject: DOVE Bid Sperry Univac Mini at auction
Several replies come to mind, and that's where they're going to stay. :-)
Thanks for bringing this to the attention of the list. Cheers -- Ian
-----Original Message-----
From: cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-
bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of steve shumaker
Sent: Wednesday, May 25, 2011 4:36 PM
To: cctalk at classiccmp.org
Subject: Re: DOVE Bid Sperry Univac Mini at auction
well then! totally cool.
at least my lusting was in support of a good cause.
steve
On 5/25/2011 2:52 PM, Ian King wrote:
I guess I'm too subtle - as if anyone would
believe that! :-)
LCM was the winner of this auction. We will ship it to our location
in Seattle
and put it on the list for restoration. So, this is
"official" notice that we're looking for documentation and software.
Thanks! -- Ian
> -----Original Message-----
> From: cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-
> bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of steve shumaker
> Sent: Wednesday, May 25, 2011 11:26 AM
> To: cctalk at classiccmp.org
> Subject: Re: DOVE Bid Sperry Univac Mini at auction
>
> ahh well... hopefully the winner was someone here. Certainly it
would
> seem that it was recognized as an item of
interest (went for
$1800!)
>
> On 5/25/2011 10:12 AM, Al Kossow wrote:
>
>> On 5/25/11 8:58 AM, Ian King wrote:
>>
>>
>>> ...or maybe someone like the Living Computer Museum. :-) Al, do
>>>
> you
>
>>> have any docs for this? I wasn't able to find any on BitSavers.
>>> Cheers -- Ian
>>>
>> I think all I have is a handbook. The 70 series was mostly sold
while
>> Sperry owned the Varian
>> computer line, and I've not seen much from that time.
>>
>> http://dimka.com/daily/external-pages/spies.com-~aek-orphanage.html
>>
>> has a copy of my old spies web page. I did chase down "Second
Source
>>> Computers" around 5 years
>>> ago, but they weren't very helpful.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
> 
10:01 p.m.
New subject: DOVE Bid Sperry Univac Mini at auction
was there a biding war or did 1 person only bid?
10:22 p.m.
New subject: DOVE Bid Sperry Univac Mini at auction
-----Original Message-----
From: cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-
bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Adrian Stoness
Sent: Wednesday, May 25, 2011 7:01 PM
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Subject: Re: DOVE Bid Sperry Univac Mini at auction
was there a biding war or did 1 person only bid?
It wasn't a bidding war as much as a friendly competition. :-) One of the other
bidders has already contacted me to ask if we were the 'other guy' and confirm
that the machine is going to a good home.
Strangely enough, it seems to not be going anywhere. I've received mail from the
current (corporate) owner who claims that the machine is NOT for sale, and was entered
into the auction by error. I'm still chasing down details but it appears the
transaction will be voided. <sigh> Assuming this plays out as it seems it will, my
next task is to try to be certain the machine is in fact going to a new corporate home and
not to a scrapper. -- Ian
10:33 p.m.
New subject: DOVE Bid Sperry Univac Mini at auction
On Wed, May 25, 2011 at 9:22 PM, Ian King <IanK at vulcan.com> wrote:
shibby!
-----Original
Message-----
From: cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-
bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Adrian Stoness
Sent: Wednesday, May 25, 2011 7:01 PM
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Subject: Re: DOVE Bid Sperry Univac Mini at auction
was there a biding war or did 1 person only bid?
It wasn't a bidding war as much as a friendly competition. :-) One of the
other bidders has already contacted me to ask if we were the 'other guy' and
confirm that the machine is going to a good home.
Strangely enough, it seems to not be going anywhere. I've received mail
from the current (corporate) owner who claims that the machine is NOT for
sale, and was entered into the auction by error. I'm still chasing down
details but it appears the transaction will be voided. <sigh> Assuming
this plays out as it seems it will, my next task is to try to be certain the
machine is in fact going to a new corporate home and not to a scrapper. --
Ian
11:02 p.m.
New subject: DOVE Bid Sperry Univac Mini at auction
Strangely enough, it seems to not be going anywhere.?
I've received mail from the current (corporate) owner who
claims that the machine is NOT for sale, and was entered
into the auction by error.?
It looked like the machine had some Air Force property stickers on it. It is possible that
the "owner" did not have title to the machine. If I read the auction
description right, the sale the machine was a part of was a Honeywell surplus sale. They
do defense contracting, and might have simply been in possession of gear purchased on
contract. This can be a problem for universities disposing of surplus as well.
--Bill
11:29 p.m.
New subject: DOVE Bid Sperry Univac Mini at auction
that's interesting! I've been watching it since they posted the
catalog several weeks ago and the status did change but then was changed
back.
steve
On 5/25/2011 7:22 PM, Ian King wrote:
-----Original
Message-----
From: cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-
bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Adrian Stoness
Sent: Wednesday, May 25, 2011 7:01 PM
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Subject: Re: DOVE Bid Sperry Univac Mini at auction
was there a biding war or did 1 person only bid?
It wasn't a bidding war as much as a friendly competition. :-) One of
the other bidders has already contacted me to ask if we were the 'other guy' and
confirm that the machine is going to a good home.
Strangely enough, it seems to not be going anywhere. I've received mail from the
current (corporate) owner who claims that the machine is NOT for sale, and was entered
into the auction by error. I'm still chasing down details but it appears the
transaction will be voided.<sigh> Assuming this plays out as it seems it will, my
next task is to try to be certain the machine is in fact going to a new corporate home and
not to a scrapper. -- Ian
24 May
24 May
5:17 p.m.
New subject: DOVE Bid Sperry Univac Mini at auction
Wow, how'd you even find that? A search for "univac" turned up
nothing from dovebid. I have given up on them because there's no way
to setup search notifications and the interesting things show up far
too infrequently anymore for it to be worth a manual drill-down.
--
"The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline" -- DirectX 9 draft available for download
<http://legalizeadulthood.wordpress.com/the-direct3d-graphics-pipeline/>
Legalize Adulthood! <http://legalizeadulthood.wordpress.com>
5:33 p.m.
New subject: DOVE Bid Sperry Univac Mini at auction
pure chance: I was looking at the oscope lots and noticed the front
panel display in the image as I was clicking through the items
steve
On 5/24/2011 2:17 PM, Richard wrote:
Wow, how'd you even find that? A search for
"univac" turned up
nothing from dovebid. I have given up on them because there's no way
to setup search notifications and the interesting things show up far
too infrequently anymore for it to be worth a manual drill-down.
25 May
25 May
1:11 a.m.
On 5/24/2011 9:03 AM, Christian Gauger-Cosgrove wrote:
In terms of hardware on the PC side of things, all one
needs is a
serial port. The software I use (which I'm sure I linked; if not find
it here: http://www.ak6dn.dyndns.org/PDP-11/TU58/tu58em/ ) I currently
run on my Windows XP Pro SP3 system; it's also been tested under
Windows 2000 and Windows 2003 Server Standard by me), with the
oversized images.
The PC side of the cable is a nine-pin serial port, while the PDP-11
side is the 10-pin cable. The cable I use, has one side as the DLVJ1
connection (10-pin IDC, tab scraped off) and he other side as a DE9M
D-sub connector (i.e. the "PC serial port" connector, wired as a DTE).
The conenction between the systems is then made with a standard serial
null modem cable (I had a couple so I just used a that). (Plus wiring
the serial port on the '11 side of things as a DTE is the correct
way.)
Since serial ports are not many new machines,have you tried
it with a USB serial converter?
10 a.m.
I've never tried it with a USB serial port actually. Then again I've
never had the issue of not having serial ports on my PC. (If it
doesn't have serial ports, I will buy a serial card... Even if it is
my top of the line quad core, multi-terabyte disk space, built for
gaming and multimedia PC.)
It should work fine though. At the very least, it would work fine for
the console connection.
On 25 May 2011 01:11, ben <bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca> wrote:
On 5/24/2011 9:03 AM, Christian Gauger-Cosgrove
wrote:
In terms of hardware on the PC side of things, all one needs is a
serial port. The software I use (which I'm sure I linked; if not find
it here: http://www.ak6dn.dyndns.org/PDP-11/TU58/tu58em/ ) I currently
run on my Windows XP Pro SP3 system; it's also been tested under
Windows 2000 and Windows 2003 Server Standard by me), with the
oversized images.
The PC side of the cable is a nine-pin serial port, while the PDP-11
side is the 10-pin cable. The cable I use, has one side as the DLVJ1
connection (10-pin IDC, tab scraped off) and he other side as a DE9M
D-sub connector (i.e. the "PC serial port" connector, wired as a DTE).
The conenction between the systems is then made with a standard serial
null modem cable (I had a couple so I just used a that). (Plus wiring
the serial port on the '11 side of things as a DTE is the correct
way.)
Since serial ports are not many new machines,have you tried
it with a USB serial converter?
4806
days inactive
4812
days old
34 comments
13 participants
participants (13)
-
aek＠bitsavers.org -
ajp166＠verizon.net -
bfranchuk＠jetnet.ab.ca -
captainkirk359＠gmail.com -
chrise＠pobox.com -
ethan.dicks＠gmail.com -
IanK＠vulcan.com -
jhfinedp3k＠compsys.to -
legalize＠xmission.com -
mcguire＠neurotica.com -
shumaker＠att.net -
tdk.knight＠gmail.com -
wmaddox＠pacbell.net