23 Feb
2008
23 Feb
'08
1:14 a.m.
Are these BA23-based?
If so, don't forget that the DB9 pinout isn't standard !
Traditional DB9 cabling won't work !
T
________________________________________________________________________
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23 Feb
23 Feb
2:25 a.m.
do I need a null-modem cable or straight?
yes I know it's non-standard, but still.
I have a DEC 9 pin adapter.
I think my RJ12 (6 pin phone like cable with locks off-set) are no good.
i have no idea where to get "new" dec connect cables :(
i got 2 systems going out of all of them. not very good...
----------------------------------------
To: cctalk at classiccmp.org
Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2008 01:14:35 -0500
From: tiggerlasv at aim.com
Subject: a bad day for vaxen
Are these BA23-based?
If so, don't forget that the DB9 pinout isn't standard !
Traditional DB9 cabling won't work !
T
________________________________________________________________________
More new features than ever. Check out the new AIM(R) Mail ! -
http://webmail.aim.com
_________________________________________________________________
7:08 a.m.
do I need a null-modem cable or straight?
yes I know it's non-standard, but still.
I have a DEC 9 pin adapter.
An essential tool for anyone interfacing to serial equipment is a
"light box" - just a box with LEDs to show which signals are being
driven by a particular interface. I prefer the kind with two-color
LEDs which show the polarity of the signal.
To determine if you need a null modem, you need to determine which
signals are being driven - You can use a LED or a multimeter set
to measure current (few milliamps), in series with a suitable resistor
to limit the current (few 100 ohms).
The PC is setup to look like a DTE (Data Terminal Equipment), which
means it drives (25 pin connector numbering):
TD - Pin 2
RTS - Pin 4
DTR - Pin 20
The device which interfaces to it must look like a DCE (Data
Communications Equipment) and should drive:
RD - Pin 3
CTS - Pin 5
DSR - Pin 6
DCD - Pin 8 (Not usually required unless the software is
expecting a modem)
Note that the PC 9-pin connector has a different pinout that the
traditional DB-25. This little chart may help:
[View this message with a fixed pitch font - if you can't easily
do that, save it to a file and view it from a text editor running
on a text mode (non-graphical) screen]
PC (25 pin) AT (9 pin)
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 1 2 3 4 5
14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 6 7 8 9
Signal name Origin 25-Pin(PC) 9-Pin(AT)
--------------------------------------------------------
Protective Ground (GND) --- 1 -
Transmit Data (TXD) DTE 2 3
Receive Data (RXD) DCE 3 2
Request To Send (RTS) DTE 4 7
Clear To Send (CTS) DCE 5 8
Data Set Ready (DSR) DCE 6 6
Signal Ground (GND) --- 7 5
Data Carrier Detect (DCD) DCE 8 1
Data Terminal Ready (DTR) DTE 20 4
Ring Indicator (RI ) DCE 22 9
Connectors viewed from rear of PC.
With all your cabling attached to the VAX, check the current being
provided on TD, RD, RTS, CTS, DTR and DSR - note that not all of
these may be driven - it is common practice to "loop back" signals
which are not available on the interface. For example, RTS may be
connected to CTS - so that when the PC asserts RTS, it will see
CTS - even though that signal is not provided by the terminating
equipment.
If your VAX cable is providing current on RD, and NOT on TD, RTS
or DTR, then it should be directly connected to a PC.
If the VAX cable is providing current on TD and NOT on RD, CTS or
DSR then you will need a "null-modem" cable which swaps TD/RD,
RTS/CTS and DTR/DSR.
If your interface is providing current on a combination of signals
which originate at both sources (example, TD and CTS) then you have
a mis-wired cable.
I think my RJ12 (6 pin phone like cable with locks
off-set) are no good.
i have no idea where to get "new" dec connect cables :(
I've had good luck making MMJ connectors from RJ-45 Ethernet connectors
with a dremel tool - if you are careful, the result fits nicely, and
even locks into place correctly with the tab. I can post a couple of
photos if you want to see.
The adapter I created to interface the PC to my VAXen looks like this:
[View this message with a fixed pitch font - if you can't easily
do that, save it to a file and view it from a text editor running
on a text mode (non-graphical) screen]
6 3 7 - 2 20 DB-25 serial pins (so chart above for names & DB-9)
+ | | | | | | +
+ | | | | | | + View of top side of connector
+ + Looking down on connection pins.
+ +
+-------------+
| Cable |
Since RTS/CTS are not provided on the VAX MMJ interface, my cable
also loops RTS to CTS.
This connects directly to the PC (no null modem).
i got 2 systems going out of all of them. not very
good...
Just in case it's "been a while" ... Don't forget that some VAXen
seem to take quite a few seconds before the serial output of the
self-tests starts after power-on. The first time I powered up a
VAX I thought it wasn't working at first...
Dave
--
dave06a (at) Dave Dunfield
dunfield (dot) Firmware development services & tools: www.dunfield.com
com Collector of vintage computing equipment:
http://www.classiccmp.org/dunfield/index.html
10:42 a.m.
yeah I dont have a dremel, and I'm not good that way.
it'd be best if I could just test some known good cables
even with a monitor hooked up, and let it wait over 5 minutes I got nothing.
even 15 minutes and still nothing.
one system I get a "blue" screen and thats it
on another i get the color test patterns, then nothing
the third i get a black screen and monitor says its receiving no signal.
:(
Dan.
----------------------------------------
From: dave06a at dunfield.com
To: cctalk at classiccmp.org
Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2008 07:08:19 -0500
Subject: RE: a bad day for vaxen
_________________________________________________________________
do I need a null-modem cable or straight?
yes I know it's non-standard, but still.
I have a DEC 9 pin adapter.
An essential tool for anyone interfacing to serial equipment is a
"light box" - just a box with LEDs to show which signals are being
driven by a particular interface. I prefer the kind with two-color
LEDs which show the polarity of the signal.
To determine if you need a null modem, you need to determine which
signals are being driven - You can use a LED or a multimeter set
to measure current (few milliamps), in series with a suitable resistor
to limit the current (few 100 ohms).
The PC is setup to look like a DTE (Data Terminal Equipment), which
means it drives (25 pin connector numbering):
TD - Pin 2
RTS - Pin 4
DTR - Pin 20
The device which interfaces to it must look like a DCE (Data
Communications Equipment) and should drive:
RD - Pin 3
CTS - Pin 5
DSR - Pin 6
DCD - Pin 8 (Not usually required unless the software is
expecting a modem)
Note that the PC 9-pin connector has a different pinout that the
traditional DB-25. This little chart may help:
[View this message with a fixed pitch font - if you can't easily
do that, save it to a file and view it from a text editor running
on a text mode (non-graphical) screen]
PC (25 pin) AT (9 pin)
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 1 2 3 4 5
14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 6 7 8 9
Signal name Origin 25-Pin(PC) 9-Pin(AT)
--------------------------------------------------------
Protective Ground (GND) --- 1 -
Transmit Data (TXD) DTE 2 3
Receive Data (RXD) DCE 3 2
Request To Send (RTS) DTE 4 7
Clear To Send (CTS) DCE 5 8
Data Set Ready (DSR) DCE 6 6
Signal Ground (GND) --- 7 5
Data Carrier Detect (DCD) DCE 8 1
Data Terminal Ready (DTR) DTE 20 4
Ring Indicator (RI ) DCE 22 9
Connectors viewed from rear of PC.
With all your cabling attached to the VAX, check the current being
provided on TD, RD, RTS, CTS, DTR and DSR - note that not all of
these may be driven - it is common practice to "loop back" signals
which are not available on the interface. For example, RTS may be
connected to CTS - so that when the PC asserts RTS, it will see
CTS - even though that signal is not provided by the terminating
equipment.
If your VAX cable is providing current on RD, and NOT on TD, RTS
or DTR, then it should be directly connected to a PC.
If the VAX cable is providing current on TD and NOT on RD, CTS or
DSR then you will need a "null-modem" cable which swaps TD/RD,
RTS/CTS and DTR/DSR.
If your interface is providing current on a combination of signals
which originate at both sources (example, TD and CTS) then you have
a mis-wired cable.
I think my RJ12 (6 pin phone like cable with locks
off-set) are no good.
i have no idea where to get "new" dec connect cables :(
I've had good luck making MMJ connectors from RJ-45 Ethernet connectors
with a dremel tool - if you are careful, the result fits nicely, and
even locks into place correctly with the tab. I can post a couple of
photos if you want to see.
The adapter I created to interface the PC to my VAXen looks like this:
[View this message with a fixed pitch font - if you can't easily
do that, save it to a file and view it from a text editor running
on a text mode (non-graphical) screen]
6 3 7 - 2 20 DB-25 serial pins (so chart above for names & DB-9)
+ | | | | | | +
+ | | | | | | + View of top side of connector
+ + Looking down on connection pins.
+ +
+-------------+
| Cable |
Since RTS/CTS are not provided on the VAX MMJ interface, my cable
also loops RTS to CTS.
This connects directly to the PC (no null modem).
i got 2 systems going out of all of them. not very
good...
Just in case it's "been a while" ... Don't forget that some VAXen
seem to take quite a few seconds before the serial output of the
self-tests starts after power-on. The first time I powered up a
VAX I thought it wasn't working at first...
Dave
--
dave06a (at) Dave Dunfield
dunfield (dot) Firmware development services & tools: www.dunfield.com
com Collector of vintage computing equipment:
http://www.classiccmp.org/dunfield/index.html
24 Feb
24 Feb
6:57 a.m.
yeah I dont have a dremel, and I'm not good that
way.
It's not as hard as you might think - all you need to do is
grind down one side of the connector - you can do this with
a file... I usually use a disk sander because the table gives
me a nice straight edge - then I dress the edges with flush
cutters. All you need the dremel for is to "adjust" the tab
because the one on an ethernet connector is too wide.
Another solution is to use a 6-conductor RJ-11 phone cable,
and simply cut off the tab - this doesn't lock in, however
it works well enough for testing purposes.
it'd be best if I could just test some known good
cables
If you have a multimeter or continuity tester, you can buzz
out your cables and see if they work. The pinout I sent should
give you a prerry good idea of what should go where.
even with a monitor hooked up, and let it wait over 5
minutes I got nothing.
even 15 minutes and still nothing.
Definately should have seen something by then.
one system I get a "blue" screen and thats
it
on another i get the color test patterns, then nothing
the third i get a black screen and monitor says its receiving no signal.
Have you checked the position of the console switch?
Also, some VAXen require certain pins bridged on the console
connector.
What are the status lights doing? They will tell you how far it
gets into it's startup routine.
Dave
--
dave06a (at) Dave Dunfield
dunfield (dot) Firmware development services & tools: www.dunfield.com
com Collector of vintage computing equipment:
http://www.classiccmp.org/dunfield/index.html
10:04 a.m.
MMJ connectors ex-stock (in the UK), acutally four flavours (doubtless
flat/round x solid/stranded). Also, the (US) OEMs details are given.
http://uk.farnell.com/429790/connectors/product.us0?sku=STEWART-CONNECTO
R-937-SP-3066-OST
Regarding stw of 3100
- it's usually best to get them going on the console before stw the
video
- there is a motherboard switch (accessible from the rear of the case)
which configures whether the console is the video or the serial port.
Finger trouble is not uncommon and the switches aparent position may be
a false indication (i.e. check the manual and re-make the switch).
- VS3100 cables use the same connector as uVII cab kit (and maybe other
things). However, they do not use the same internal wiring. At a
minimum check the part numbers against the manual. It is best to scope
what comes out of the BNCs, to identify continuity and sync. And, of
course the monitor has to be happy with the video signal (sync on green
and Hx / Vt rates).
HtH
Martin
-----Original Message-----
From: cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org
[mailto:cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Dave Dunfield
Sent: 24 February 2008 11:58
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Subject: RE: a bad day for vaxen
yeah I dont have a dremel, and I'm not good that
way.
It's not as hard as you might think - all you need to do is
grind down one side of the connector - you can do this with
a file... I usually use a disk sander because the table gives
me a nice straight edge - then I dress the edges with flush
cutters. All you need the dremel for is to "adjust" the tab
because the one on an ethernet connector is too wide.
Another solution is to use a 6-conductor RJ-11 phone cable,
and simply cut off the tab - this doesn't lock in, however
it works well enough for testing purposes.
it'd be best if I could just test some known good
cables
If you have a multimeter or continuity tester, you can buzz
out your cables and see if they work. The pinout I sent should
give you a prerry good idea of what should go where.
even with a monitor hooked up, and let it wait over 5
minutes I got
nothing.
even 15 minutes and still nothing.
Definately should have seen something by then.
one system I get a "blue" screen and thats
it
on another i get the color test patterns, then nothing
the third i get a black screen and monitor says its receiving no
signal.
Have you checked the position of the console switch?
Also, some VAXen require certain pins bridged on the console
connector.
What are the status lights doing? They will tell you how far it
gets into it's startup routine.
Dave
--
dave06a (at) Dave Dunfield
dunfield (dot) Firmware development services & tools: www.dunfield.com
com Collector of vintage computing equipment:
http://www.classiccmp.org/dunfield/index.html
5988
days inactive
5989
days old
5 comments
4 participants
participants (4)
-
dave06a＠dunfield.com -
dgahling＠hotmail.com -
mjd.bishop＠emeritus-solutions.com -
tiggerlasv＠aim.com