22 Sep
2021
22 Sep
'21
8:21 a.m.
Hopefully a few of the DEC/VMS fans here might be able to help!
I'm on a bit of a quest. I've been given some old VAX/VMS software -- a
cross compiler and some source code -- that I'd like to get running. My
goal is to get the source code building and experiment with the compiler
a bit.
Problem is that I've never used VMS before, and don't have a clue how to
install or use it.
Can any point me to an idiot's guide to VMS, how to set it up and make
it possible to send files to it from my Linux box?
I'm thinking of using SIMH, unless there's a better emulator available.
I'm still waiting on a reply from HP with a hobbyist licence PAK (I've
filled out the form), but I figure I can get started on the learning
while I wait.
Cheers
Phil.
22 Sep
22 Sep
8:44 a.m.
On Wed, 22 Sept 2021 at 14:21, Philip Pemberton via cctalk
<cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
I'm thinking of using SIMH, unless there's a
better emulator available.
I like VMS but I can't claim much expertise, unfortunately.
I have sysadminned a few boxes, but never brought one up from scratch.
However I did experimentally bootstrap an instance in SIMH on Linux
and it worked fine. I didn't license it or do much but it worked.
I'm still waiting on a reply from HP with a
hobbyist licence PAK (I've
filled out the form), but I figure I can get started on the learning
while I wait.
HP no longer owns VMS, AFAIK. It is now owned by VSI, VMS Software Inc.
https://vmssoftware.com/
--
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Email: lproven at cix.co.uk ? gMail/gTalk/gHangouts: lproven at gmail.com
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12:28 p.m.
On 9/22/21 8:44 AM, Liam Proven via cctalk wrote:
On Wed, 22 Sept 2021 at 14:21, Philip Pemberton via
cctalk
<cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
Not true. HP still owns it. VSI is licensed to continue development,
nothing more. HPE no longer cares about VMS and the Hobbyist Program
has ended. VSI has a Hobbyist type program but it does not cover VAX.
bill
I'm thinking of using SIMH, unless
there's a better emulator available.
I like VMS but I can't claim much expertise, unfortunately.
I have sysadminned a few boxes, but never brought one up from scratch.
However I did experimentally bootstrap an instance in SIMH on Linux
and it worked fine. I didn't license it or do much but it worked.
I'm still waiting on a reply from HP with a
hobbyist licence PAK (I've
filled out the form), but I figure I can get started on the learning
while I wait.
HP no longer owns VMS, AFAIK. It is now owned by VSI, VMS Software Inc. 
12:36 p.m.
On Sep 22, 2021, at 9:28 AM, Bill Gunshannon via cctalk <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
wrote:
Not true. HP still owns it. VSI is licensed to continue development, nothing more. HPE
no longer cares about VMS and the Hobbyist Program
has ended. VSI has a Hobbyist type program but it does not cover VAX.
Currently the Hobbyist Program covers Alpha and Itanium. We?ve been told it will cover
x86 at some point. I for one can?t wait for x86, as I don?t really want to add an Itanium
to run some of the newer software.
Zane
https://vmssoftware.com/
<https://vmssoftware.com/>
bill
5:56 p.m.
On Wed, 22 Sept 2021 at 18:28, Bill Gunshannon via cctalk
<cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
Not true. HP still owns it. VSI is licensed to continue development,
nothing more. HPE no longer cares about VMS and the Hobbyist Program
has ended. VSI has a Hobbyist type program but it does not cover VAX.
I sit corrected.
The upshot is the same, though...
--
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Email: lproven at cix.co.uk ? gMail/gTalk/gHangouts: lproven at gmail.com
Twitter/Facebook/LinkedIn/Flickr: lproven ? Skype: liamproven
UK: +44 7939-087884 ? ?R (+ WhatsApp/Telegram/Signal): +420 702 829 053
8:51 a.m.
Hi Phil
I'm not sure if it helps, but I documented installing OpenVMS on a
Raspberry Pi a while ago at
https://blog.poggs.com/2020/04/21/openvms-on-a-raspberry-pi/
Peter
On Wed, 22 Sept 2021 at 13:21, Philip Pemberton via cctalk <
cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
Hopefully a few of the DEC/VMS fans here might be able
to help!
I'm on a bit of a quest. I've been given some old VAX/VMS software -- a
cross compiler and some source code -- that I'd like to get running. My
goal is to get the source code building and experiment with the compiler
a bit.
Problem is that I've never used VMS before, and don't have a clue how to
install or use it.
Can any point me to an idiot's guide to VMS, how to set it up and make
it possible to send files to it from my Linux box?
I'm thinking of using SIMH, unless there's a better emulator available.
I'm still waiting on a reply from HP with a hobbyist licence PAK (I've
filled out the form), but I figure I can get started on the learning
while I wait.
Cheers
Phil.
--
OpenTrainTimes Ltd. registered in?England and Wales, company no.?
09504022.
Registered office: Suite 1-3, Hop Exchange, 24 Southwark Street,
London SE1 1TY
9:05 a.m.
On 22/09/2021 13:21, Philip Pemberton via cctalk wrote:
Hopefully a few of the DEC/VMS fans here might be able
to help!
I'm on a bit of a quest. I've been given some old VAX/VMS software --
a cross compiler and some source code -- that I'd like to get running.
My goal is to get the source code building and experiment with the
compiler a bit.
Problem is that I've never used VMS before, and don't have a clue how
to install or use it.
One of the other replies supplies a "how to install from scratch in
SIMH" link, so that would be a good starting point.
Might be faster to install on a speedy machine though (I've never tried
on any Pi but I doubt that any of them will match a Ryzen ...)
Can any point me to an idiot's guide to VMS, how
to set it up and make
it possible to send files to it from my Linux box?
The easiest way to transfer that I can think of would be to set up
TCP/IP on OpenVMS and then just FTP (or NFS if you you set that up).
There is (or at least, was) a version of SAMBA for OpenVMS, so that's
another way if you like Windows.
I'm thinking of using SIMH, unless there's a
better emulator available.
SIMH works really well. Well enough that if you give OpenVMS (VAX) a
sufficiently large disk (30GB should do), it will crash when trying to
mount it :-)
I'm still waiting on a reply from HP with a hobbyist licence PAK (I've
filled out the form), but I figure I can get started on the learning
while I wait.
You'll be a wizard before you stop waiting. Hobbyist PAKs are no longer
available. I forget whether the existing PAKs run out at the end of 2021
or 2022.
VSI are not allowed to issue PAKs for VAX (I'm not sure whether they
simply cannot do it or are not allowed to do it, but either way, they
won't).
Antonio
--
Antonio Carlini
antonio at acarlini.com
10:12 a.m.
Find a working vms system and back up the drives to your
externally-attached drive (s) to clone them. Migrate the cloned drives to
your system. This is a simplified statement of what's really involved but
if you can get to a similar system to your dec whatever you have, I'd
attempt the clone process. That is if you have/want to use real vax/alpha
hardware.
Bill
On Wed, Sep 22, 2021, 9:05 AM Antonio Carlini via cctalk <
cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
On 22/09/2021 13:21, Philip Pemberton via cctalk
wrote:
Hopefully a few of the DEC/VMS fans here might be
able to help!
I'm on a bit of a quest. I've been given some old VAX/VMS software --
a cross compiler and some source code -- that I'd like to get running.
My goal is to get the source code building and experiment with the
compiler a bit.
Problem is that I've never used VMS before, and don't have a clue how
to install or use it.
One of the other replies supplies a "how to install from scratch in
SIMH" link, so that would be a good starting point.
Might be faster to install on a speedy machine though (I've never tried
on any Pi but I doubt that any of them will match a Ryzen ...)
Can any point me to an idiot's guide to VMS,
how to set it up and make
it possible to send files to it from my Linux box?
The easiest way to transfer that I can think of would be to set up
TCP/IP on OpenVMS and then just FTP (or NFS if you you set that up).
There is (or at least, was) a version of SAMBA for OpenVMS, so that's
another way if you like Windows.
I'm thinking of using SIMH, unless
there's a better emulator available.
SIMH works really well. Well enough that if you give OpenVMS (VAX) a
sufficiently large disk (30GB should do), it will crash when trying to
mount it :-)
I'm still waiting on a reply from HP with a hobbyist licence PAK (I've
filled out the form), but I figure I can get started on the learning
while I wait.
You'll be a wizard before you stop waiting. Hobbyist PAKs are no longer
available. I forget whether the existing PAKs run out at the end of 2021
or 2022.
VSI are not allowed to issue PAKs for VAX (I'm not sure whether they
simply cannot do it or are not allowed to do it, but either way, they
won't).
Antonio
--
Antonio Carlini
antonio at acarlini.com
12:05 p.m.
On Sep 22, 2021, at 6:05 AM, Antonio Carlini via cctalk <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
wrote:
Might be faster to install on a speedy machine though
(I've never tried on any Pi but I doubt that any of them will match a Ryzen ?)
I tend to use VM?s on my VMware cluster. I?ve used an RPI 3b+, it was about 1.6 VUPS, so
better than my KA630 based systems.
SIMH works really well. Well enough that if you give
OpenVMS (VAX) a sufficiently large disk (30GB should do), it will crash when trying to
mount it :-)
Interesting, I have 3 34GB drives in my cluster, and haven?t had any issue.
Zane
2:21 p.m.
On 22/09/2021 17:05, Zane Healy wrote:
Interesting, I have 3 34GB drives in my cluster, and haven?t had any issue.
I think I was running OpenVMS VAX V7.2 on SIMH. IIRC it was fixed in
V7.3 (someone sent me the DECUS Hobbyist V7.3 release and that was OK).
Antonio
--
Antonio Carlini
antonio at acarlini.com
2:31 p.m.
On Sep 22, 2021, at 11:21 AM, Antonio Carlini <a.carlini at ntlworld.com> wrote:
On 22/09/2021 17:05, Zane Healy wrote:
That would explain it, I?m running OpenVMS/VAX v7.3 along with OpenVMS/Alpha v8.3 and v8.4
in the cluster. What really surprised me is that SIMH can serve up an ODS-5 disk on the
Cluster for OpenVMS/Alpha.
Zane
Interesting, I have 3 34GB drives in my cluster, and haven?t had any issue.
I think I was running OpenVMS VAX V7.2 on SIMH. IIRC it was fixed in V7.3 (someone sent
me the DECUS Hobbyist V7.3 release and that was OK). 
11:50 a.m.
-----Original Message-----
From: cctalk <cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org> On Behalf Of Philip
Pemberton via cctalk
Sent: 22 September 2021 13:22
To: cctalk at classiccmp.org
Subject: Setting up a VMS system
Hopefully a few of the DEC/VMS fans here might be able to help!
I'm on a bit of a quest. I've been given some old VAX/VMS software -- a cross
compiler and some source code -- that I'd like to get running. My goal is to
get the source code building and experiment with the compiler a bit.
OK Well I wonder if it needs a licence. That may be an issue...
Problem is that I've never used VMS before, and
don't have a clue how to
install or use it.
You will find copies of OpenVMS and the documentation on vaxhaven.com.
The commands are generally similar to Unix/DoS but it has many unique quirks.
It creates versions of files. So if you run the same copy command twice, you get two
output files.
Assuming non were there before these will have a ";1" and ";2" on the
end.
I seem to remember the PURGE command cleans this up.
I would just google "openvms vax install simh" and see which one suits your
style of working.
Lots of tutorials too.,
Can any point me to an idiot's guide to VMS, how
to set it up and make it
possible to send files to it from my Linux box?
Well if you are using SIMH you can probably use FTP. If the files are small enough you can
also create an ISO and mount it on OPENVMS
This will be mounted as a "foreign" disk as VMS CDs are written using the VMS
file format.
I'm thinking of using SIMH, unless there's a
better emulator available.
I think its the best but there are many types of VAX,
https://9track.net/simh/
has many variants.
I'm still waiting on a reply from HP with a
hobbyist licence PAK (I've filled out
the form), but I figure I can get started on the learning while I wait.
You won't get one from HP but there are work arounds.
HP has allowed us to share our files. Let me know of list if you need it.
Cheers
Phil.
Dave
12:33 p.m.
On Sep 22, 2021, at 5:21 AM, Philip Pemberton via cctalk <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
wrote:
Hopefully a few of the DEC/VMS fans here might be able to help!
I'm on a bit of a quest. I've been given some old VAX/VMS software -- a cross
compiler and some source code -- that I'd like to get running. My goal is to get the
source code building and experiment with the compiler a bit.
Out of curiosity, what?s the VAX/VMS software you?re trying to run, and what version of
VAX/VMS was it intended to run on? Does it have any version requirements with the OS?
Problem is that I've never used VMS before, and
don't have a clue how to install or use it.
Can any point me to an idiot's guide to VMS, how to set it up and make it possible to
send files to it from my Linux box?
Are you simply looking for Web resources, or are you interested in books? The v5.x System
Managers Guide and Users Guide are probably two of my favorite books, even when running
8.x, I tend to reach for the v5.x System Managers Guide first.
I'm thinking of using SIMH, unless there's a
better emulator available.
SIMH is the best option. Better emulators cost $$$?s.
I'm still waiting on a reply from HP with a
hobbyist licence PAK (I've filled out the form), but I figure I can get started on the
learning while I wait.
That?s the problem, HP already sent out the last set of Hobbyist PAK?s.
Zane
23 Sep
23 Sep
4:21 p.m.
On 9/22/2021 7:21 AM, Philip Pemberton via cctalk wrote:
Hopefully a few of the DEC/VMS fans here might be able
to help!
I'm on a bit of a quest. I've been given some old VAX/VMS software -- a cross
compiler and some source code -- that I'd like to get running. My goal is to get the
source code building and experiment with the compiler a bit.
Problem is that I've never used VMS before, and don't have a clue how to install
or use it.
Can any point me to an idiot's guide to VMS, how to set it up and make it possible to
send files to it from my Linux box?
I'm thinking of using SIMH, unless there's a better emulator available.
That is pretty much it for VAX emulation.? Going with the V4 release stream gives you a
number of options, but they are all basically the same.
I'm still waiting on a reply from HP with a hobbyist licence PAK (I've filled out
the form), but I figure I can get started on the learning while I wait.
That will be a long wait.? HPE stopped responding to OpenVMS Hobbyist requests around May
2020.? If you email me I can send you a copy of the last set of VAX OpenVMS PAKs that were
sent out.? They are generic, as opposed to what they used to send out which had
authorization # tailored to each requestor.? These are good only for a few more months s
they expire on 1-Jan-2022.? As they were generic and the last Hobbyist PAKS that HPE was
going to send out we got unofficial (from Hari, the HPE employee in India that ran the
Hobbyist program) permission to give them to anyone that asked.
You don't say how old the software is that you want to run.? If it's VAX/VMS V4
vintage then you gan get away without the PAKS as that is pre-LMF and PAK usage. But then
again, V4.7 era is somewhat harder to install and set up than a V7.3 (the last VAX
version)
Cheers
Phil.
--
John H. Reinhardt
1112
days inactive
1113
days old
13 comments
9 participants
participants (9)
-
a.carlini＠ntlworld.com -
bill.gunshannon＠hotmail.com -
billdegnan＠gmail.com -
classiccmp＠philpem.me.uk -
dave.g4ugm＠gmail.com -
healyzh＠avanthar.com -
johnhreinhardt＠thereinhardts.org -
lproven＠gmail.com -
peter.hicks＠poggs.co.uk