26 Feb
2009
26 Feb
'09
3:28 p.m.
If you can't arrange a group buy and you don't mind white/unprinted
then I could send you a couple of rolls; I don't see myself doing
anything with my PPT perfs and readers any time soon - think of
it: loading Vista from PPT... ;-)
Email off-list if interested.
mike
---------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2009 20:47:09 +0100
From: Henk Gooijen <henk.gooijen at hotmail.com>
Subject: 1" paper tape buy ?
Hi all,
I was searching for a company that sells 1" unoiled paper tape, here
in The Netherlands. No luck. After googling and many pages, I found
a company in the USA: http://www.wncsupply.com/paper-tape-rolls.html
I would like to buy one or two rolls of 1000 ft, order# 0400A,
R-V-PU471 Unoiled / Printed Top Arrow yellowish color, but it comes
in either a package of 28 rolls (1) and weighs 40 lbs, or in a quart
package, 7 rolls, still a weight of 10 lbs. The 7 rolls package costs
$80. That OK, but the shipping costs would make it quite expensive.
My question is simple.
Are there people on this list who also want to buy some rolls of 1"
nice looking yellow paper tape? I would take 2 (or 3) rolls.
Hint: Get a paper tape reader from an old CNC machine from eBay.
(I bought one for $30 and another for $79 two weeks ago). You can
interface such a reader to a computer, in my case the SBC6120 !
Think of it ... booting the SBC6120 from a paper tape. Is that cool?
The site also sells nice reels (http://www.wncsupply.com/reels.html).
I wanted to buy the 4" blue ones, but again shipping costs, aarggghh.
However, a nice lady from the company emailed me that she is looking
into the shipping costs, as the costs quoted on their site is a bit
high.
I hope to hear from one or two people also looking for a few paper
tape rolls ... Please contact me off list.
Links to other companies that sell 1" paper tape are also welcome!
Thanks,
- Henk, PA8PDP
26 Feb
26 Feb
3:37 p.m.
On Thursday 26 February 2009 03:28:19 pm M H Stein wrote:
If you can't arrange a group buy and you don't
mind white/unprinted
then I could send you a couple of rolls; I don't see myself doing
anything with my PPT perfs and readers any time soon - think of
it: loading Vista from PPT... ;-)
Not that I ever wanna bother with Vista, but...
You'd need a forklift, at least!
--
Member of the toughest, meanest, deadliest, most unrelenting -- and
ablest -- form of life in this section of space, a critter that can
be killed but can't be tamed. --Robert A. Heinlein, "The Puppet Masters"
-
Information is more dangerous than cannon to a society ruled by lies. --James
M Dakin
3:39 p.m.
Roy J. Tellason wrote:
On Thursday 26 February 2009 03:28:19 pm M H Stein
wrote:
Didn't someone once work out that to store a single MP3 you'd need a
stack of 80-column cards ten miles high?
Gordon
If you can't arrange a group buy and you
don't mind white/unprinted
then I could send you a couple of rolls; I don't see myself doing
anything with my PPT perfs and readers any time soon - think of
it: loading Vista from PPT... ;-)
Not that I ever wanna bother with Vista, but...
You'd need a forklift, at least!
4:11 p.m.
On Thu, 26 Feb 2009, Gordon JC Pearce wrote:
Didn't someone once work out that to store a
single MP3 you'd need a stack of
80-column cards ten miles high?
Assuming a 6MB MP3 file and 40 bytes per card:
6 * 1048576 = 6291456 bytes
/ 40 bytes per card = 157286.4 (157285) cards
* .178mm card thickness = 27996.73 mm high
/ 25.4mm per inch = 1102.233465 inches
/ 12 = 91.85278871 (91.85) feet
Mike Loewen mloewen at cpumagic.scol.pa.us
Old Technology http://sturgeon.css.psu.edu/~mloewen/Oldtech/
4:15 p.m.
I thought 80-column cards were 80 bytes? One byte per column? I've
never actually used them, so if somebody could explain to me that
would be interesting.
Still, a ridiculously large number of cards :)
On Thu, Feb 26, 2009 at 4:11 PM, Mike Loewen
<mloewen at cpumagic.scol.pa.us> wrote:
On Thu, 26 Feb 2009, Gordon JC Pearce wrote:
--
"I've tried programming Ruby on Rails, following TechCrunch in my RSS
reader, and drinking absinthe. It doesn't work. I'm going back to C,
Hunter S. Thompson, and cheap whiskey." -- Ted Dziuba
Didn't someone once work out that to store a
single MP3 you'd need a stack
of 80-column cards ten miles high?
? Assuming a 6MB MP3 file and 40 bytes per card:
? 6 * 1048576 = 6291456 bytes
? / 40 bytes per card = 157286.4 (157285) cards
? * .178mm card thickness = 27996.73 mm high
? / 25.4mm per inch = 1102.233465 inches
? / 12 = ?91.85278871 (91.85) feet
Mike Loewen ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? mloewen at cpumagic.scol.pa.us
Old Technology ?http://sturgeon.css.psu.edu/~mloewen/Oldtech/
4:21 p.m.
On Thu, 26 Feb 2009, John Floren wrote:
I thought 80-column cards were 80 bytes? One byte per
column? I've
never actually used them, so if somebody could explain to me that
would be interesting.
There are 80 columns with 12 rows each. I assumed the worst case of
using two ASCII characters to represent each byte. You could punch them
in binary and get 1 byte in each column with a nibble left over in each
column. Or, you could pack 3 nibbles in each column and get 120 bytes,
but it would play hell with your punches. :-)
Mike Loewen mloewen at cpumagic.scol.pa.us
Old Technology http://sturgeon.css.psu.edu/~mloewen/Oldtech/
5:54 p.m.
Mike Loewen wrote:
On Thu, 26 Feb 2009, John Floren wrote:
Practically speaking, I wonder if there was a 'good practice' limit on how many
holes could be punched in one column, too many holes and a card might become
flimsy and likely to fold along the column(s), reducing the theoretical maximum
bit density.
The 8-bit EBCDIC punch encoding shown here
http://www.cs.uiowa.edu/~jones/cards/codes.html
still has some holes in the value-space (punch patterns for all 256 values are
not shown), although it could reasonably be expanded to achieve 256 values.
Was there a standard 8-bit binary punch pattern (to get a full 8-bit byte out
of one 12-bit column)?
I thought 80-column cards were 80 bytes? One byte
per column? I've
never actually used them, so if somebody could explain to me that
would be interesting.
There are 80 columns with 12 rows each. I assumed the worst case of
using two ASCII characters to represent each byte. You could punch them
in binary and get 1 byte in each column with a nibble left over in each
column. Or, you could pack 3 nibbles in each column and get 120 bytes,
but it would play hell with your punches. :-) 
6:09 p.m.
Brent Hilpert wrote:
Practically speaking, I wonder if there was a
'good practice' limit on how many
holes could be punched in one column, too many holes and a card might become
flimsy and likely to fold along the column(s), reducing the theoretical maximum
bit density.
Just found this entry: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lace_card
:-)
... so did machines of the day often have encoding schemes such that large
areas of punches were unlikely?
7:19 p.m.
Was there a standard 8-bit binary punch pattern (to
get a full 8-bit byte
out of one 12-bit column)?
With or without parity? :-)
--
Member of the toughest, meanest, deadliest, most unrelenting -- and
ablest -- form of life in this section of space, a critter that can
be killed but can't be tamed. --Robert A. Heinlein, "The Puppet Masters"
-
Information is more dangerous than cannon to a society ruled by lies. --James
M Dakin
4:21 p.m.
John Floren wrote:
I thought 80-column cards were 80 bytes? One byte per
column?
I thought IBM ones were 80x12, or 960 bits per card - although presumably
there was some out-of-band stuff in there for real-world situations.
(if that 960 is right, I get a theoretical 242" for a 4MB mp3 file)
5:50 p.m.
>>>> "John" == John Floren
<slawmaster at gmail.com> writes:
John> I thought 80-column cards were 80 bytes? One byte per column?
John> I've never actually used them, so if somebody could explain to
John> me that would be interesting.
Yes, they are, if you use the full binary code. That exists but it
isn't often seen. I do remember some IBM 360 binary card decks,
though.
You could even do 12 bits per column if the card punch being used is
forgiving.
paul
6:01 p.m.
On 26 Feb 2009 at 17:50, Paul Koning wrote:
Yes, they are, if you use the full binary code. That
exists but it
isn't often seen. I do remember some IBM 360 binary card decks,
though.
You could even do 12 bits per column if the card punch being used is
forgiving.
The CDC opersting sytems (NOS, SCOPE, KRONOS, etc.) used to punch
"banner" cards in column binary so I/O clerks could pair up decks
with other job output.
But a card with all columns punched is like a wet noodle. Very
flimsy--good for jamming card readers.
Cheers,
Chuck
7:17 p.m.
In article <49A6AEB6.23127.538B3780 at cclist.sydex.com>,
"Chuck Guzis" <cclist at sydex.com> writes:
But a card with all columns punched is like a wet
noodle. Very
flimsy--good for jamming card readers.
Its also good for making confetti :-).
Punch all the holes and then card duplicate as many times as you can...
--
"The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline" -- DirectX 9 draft available for download
<http://www.xmission.com/~legalize/book/download/index.html>
Legalize Adulthood! <http://blogs.xmission.com/legalize/>
8:27 p.m.
On 26 Feb 2009 at 19:40, Dennis Boone wrote:
Or the CPU word was 60 bits.
Many OS-es of the era could open the punch in column binary (or row
binary for some others) and punch whatever they wanted. CDC 6000
series object decks, were, IIRC, column binary.
Cheers,
Chuck
The CDC
opersting sytems (NOS, SCOPE, KRONOS, etc.) used to punch
"banner" cards in column binary so I/O clerks could pair up decks with
other job output.
Probably didn't hurt that the PPU was a 12-bit machine...
10:08 p.m.
On 26 Feb 2009 at 20:55, Dennis Boone wrote:
No, but it's generally a CPU program that initiates a punch job. So
60-bits = 5 columns in column binary, which fits nicely. I don't
even remember the name of the CIO overlay that drives the 415. Thing
was noisy and prone to trouble so few people used it. I do remember
the nice warm feel of a deck of freshly-punched cards, though.
---Chuck
> Probably
didn't hurt that the PPU was a 12-bit machine...
Or the CPU word was 60 bits.
But the CPU had no I/O. The PPUs transferred data out of CM into their
local memory through the pyramid to write it, or vice versa for reads. 
10:22 p.m.
No, but it's generally a CPU program that
initiates a punch job. So
60-bits = 5 columns in column binary, which fits nicely. I don't even
remember the name of the CIO overlay that drives the 415. Thing was
noisy and prone to trouble so few people used it. I do remember the
nice warm feel of a deck of freshly-punched cards, though.
Actually, that reminds me...
I always assumed the 12-60 relationship existed because the 12-bit
architecture derived from a previous CDC design, and because it was
somewhere between helpful and important that they be a multiple.
But I haven't run into anything that talks about it. Anyone have a
reference I should have RTFMed by now?
De
11:05 p.m.
On 26 Feb 2009 at 22:22, Dennis Boone wrote:
I always assumed the 12-60 relationship existed
because the 12-bit
architecture derived from a previous CDC design, and because it was
somewhere between helpful and important that they be a multiple.
But I haven't run into anything that talks about it. Anyone have a
reference I should have RTFMed by now?
Well, the PPU design is basically a reworked and regurgitated CDC
160A, a 12-bit design, shared among 10 sets of memory and registers
(A,P,Q and K) so each PPU got its slot in the barrel every 10 minor
cycles (or every 1 usec., which was also the speed of a core bank).
But did the PP word size determine the CPU word size? I don't know.
Maybe a 72 bit word length might have made more sense, as that would
have matched the 7090 double-precision word size. On the other hand,
everything about the 6000 architecture does "fit together" nicely.
Maybe there's something in the CHM oral history archives.
--Chuck
27 Feb
27 Feb
10:45 a.m.
>>>> "Chuck" == Chuck Guzis
<cclist at sydex.com> writes:
Chuck> On 26 Feb 2009 at 22:22, Dennis Boone wrote:
> I always assumed the 12-60 relationship existed
because the 12-bit
> architecture derived from a previous CDC design, and because it
> was somewhere between helpful and important that they be a
> multiple.
>
> But I haven't run into anything that talks about it. Anyone have
> a reference I should have RTFMed by now?
Chuck> Well, the PPU design is basically a reworked and regurgitated
Chuck> CDC 160A, a 12-bit design, shared among 10 sets of memory and
Chuck> registers (A,P,Q and K) so each PPU got its slot in the barrel
Chuck> every 10 minor cycles (or every 1 usec., which was also the
Chuck> speed of a core bank).
Rather loosely based on the 160A... while both are 12 bit machines,
and some of the instructions are somewhat similar, there are lots of
differences. Different addressing modes, different shifts, and
completely different I/O.
Chuck> But did the PP word size determine the CPU word size? I don't
Chuck> know.
It has to in some way, because the PP manipulates CPU words. So an
integer ratio is the sensible thing to do. Why 5 rather than some
other ratio is an interesting question.
Chuck> Maybe a 72 bit word length might have made more sense, as that
Chuck> would have matched the 7090 double-precision word size. On
Chuck> the other hand, everything about the 6000 architecture does
Chuck> "fit together" nicely.
Right. For example, 15 and 30 bit instructions pack well, while a
72-bit word would not have produced that nice packing (and 15 bits is
the right basic instruction size). Also, 60 bits is the single
precision float size, while double is 120 bits -- so you get a lot
more precision than the 7090.
Chuck> Maybe there's something in the CHM oral history archives.
I was hoping to find some in Thornton's book but I didn't see anything
there.
paul
11:41 a.m.
On 27 Feb 2009 at 10:45, Paul Koning wrote:
Chuck> Maybe a 72 bit word length might have made
more sense, as that
Chuck> would have matched the 7090 double-precision word size. On
Chuck> the other hand, everything about the 6000 architecture does
Chuck> "fit together" nicely.
Right. For example, 15 and 30 bit instructions pack well, while a
72-bit word would not have produced that nice packing (and 15 bits is
the right basic instruction size). Also, 60 bits is the single
precision float size, while double is 120 bits -- so you get a lot
more precision than the 7090.
(DP on 7090 = 54 mantissa bits; SP on the 6000 = 48 mantissa bits. I
haven't compared the innards of the FP implementations on both
machines in detail; it might be that the 6000 preserved more
significance during calculcations than the 7090 DP).
It's always been my understanding that the 6600 took square aim at
IBM's hugely popular "scientific" machines, the 7090/7094. The
floating-point instructions have enough similarity to the 7090's to
support that contention, though the architecure in general doesn't.
A 72-bit word would have 4 18-bit parcels (allowing for 16 A, B and X
registers) or 2 36-bit parcels (allowing for a larger address space),
so it's not outside reason. Perhaps adding 12 bits to the word size
may have been too difficult or expensive from an engineering
standpoint, or simply not been cost-effective.
--Chuck
26 Feb
26 Feb
9:05 p.m.
Many OS-es of the era could open the punch in column
binary (or row
binary for some others) and punch whatever they wanted. CDC 6000
series object decks, were, IIRC, column binary.
I have never seen 6000 series binary card decks, but the source code
says you're right:
*** 3446/415 DRIVER CHARACTERISTICS.
*
* HOLLERITH CARDS ARE PUNCHED FROM A LINE CONSISTING OF UP TO
* 90 CHARACTERS. HOWEVER, ONLY THE FIRST 80 CHARACTERS
* OF THE LINE ARE ACTUALLY PUNCHED. THE DISPLAY CODE
* TO O26/O29 CONVERSION IS ACCOMPLISHED BY A
* DISPLAY CODE TO BINARY COLUMN IMAGE CONVERSION IN THE
* DRIVER. THE CARD IS THEN PUNCHED IN BINARY MODE
* ON THE 3446.
*
* BINARY DATA ARE PUNCHED IN THE FOLLOWING FORMAT
* COLUMN 1 = WORD COUNT AND BINARY CARD INDICATOR (79)
* COLUMN 2 = BINARY DATA CHECKSUM MODULO 4095
* COLUMNS 3 - 77 = 15 CENTRAL WORDS OF DATA
* COLUMN 78 = BLANK
* COLUMNS 79 - 80 = 24 BIT BINARY CARD SEQUENCE NUMBER
*
* ABSOLUTE BINARY DATA ARE PUNCHED 16 CENTRAL WORDS/CARD WITH
* NO SPECIAL PUNCHES.
paul
6:17 p.m.
Brent Hilpert wrote:
Nothing like getting an answer a fraction of a second after asking the question (!)
I also just found the full 8-bit-binary punch pattern in my WATFIV FORTRAN
manual. (There are a maximum of 6 holes punched per column.)
Was there a standard 8-bit binary punch pattern (to get a full 8-bit byte out
of one 12-bit column)?
Paul Koning wrote:
>>>> "John" == John Floren
<slawmaster at gmail.com> writes:
John> I thought 80-column cards were 80 bytes? One byte per column?
John> I've never actually used them, so if somebody could explain to
John> me that would be interesting.
Yes, they are, if you use the full binary code. That exists but it
isn't often seen. I do remember some IBM 360 binary card decks,
though. You could even do 12 bits per column if the card punch
being used is
forgiving.
4:18 p.m.
New subject: MP3 on punched cards (was RE: 1" paper tape buy ?)
And of course, by the time you'd read all those cards you would have stopped to do
maintenance on the card reader a couple dozen times.... -- Ian
-----Original Message-----
From: cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-
bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Mike Loewen
Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2009 1:12 PM
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Subject: Re: 1" paper tape buy ?
On Thu, 26 Feb 2009, Gordon JC Pearce wrote:
Didn't someone once work out that to store a
single MP3 you'd need a
stack of
80-column cards ten miles high?
Assuming a 6MB MP3 file and 40 bytes per card:
6 * 1048576 = 6291456 bytes
/ 40 bytes per card = 157286.4 (157285) cards
* .178mm card thickness = 27996.73 mm high
/ 25.4mm per inch = 1102.233465 inches
/ 12 = 91.85278871 (91.85) feet
Mike Loewen mloewen at cpumagic.scol.pa.us
Old Technology http://sturgeon.css.psu.edu/~mloewen/Oldtech/
4:28 p.m.
New subject: MP3 on punched cards (was RE: 1" paper tape buy ?)
Assuming a 6MB MP3 file and 40 bytes per card:
6 * 1048576 = 6291456 bytes
/ 40 bytes per card = 157286.4 (157285) cards
* .178mm card thickness = 27996.73 mm high
/ 25.4mm per inch = 1102.233465 inches
/ 12 = 91.85278871 (91.85) feet
Hell the university used to punch several times that many cards every
quarter just for registration. :)
But if you treat them as binary cards, you could get 120 bytes per
card. Three to one compression! *And*, 400cpm readers are still
available; that'd give you 384 kbit/sec read rate...
De
4:30 p.m.
New subject: MP3 on punched cards (was RE: 1" paper tape buy ?)
No, by the time you had Vista up and running it would either have crashed and you would
have to start again, or you just had a powercut during loading... reminds me of my
Spectrum days :)
Regards,
Andrew B
aliensrcooluk at yahoo.co.uk
--- On Thu, 26/2/09, Ian King <IanK at vulcan.com> wrote:
From: Ian King <IanK at vulcan.com>
Subject: MP3 on punched cards (was RE: 1" paper tape buy ?)
To: "'General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts'" <cctalk at
classiccmp.org>
Date: Thursday, 26 February, 2009, 9:18 PM
And of course, by the time you'd read all those cards you would have stopped
to do maintenance on the card reader a couple dozen times.... -- Ian
-----Original Message-----
From: cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-
bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Mike Loewen
Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2009 1:12 PM
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Subject: Re: 1" paper tape buy ?
On Thu, 26 Feb 2009, Gordon JC Pearce wrote:
> Didn't someone once work out that to store a single MP3 you'd
need a
stack of
80-column cards ten miles high?
Assuming a 6MB MP3 file and 40 bytes per card:
6 * 1048576 = 6291456 bytes
/ 40 bytes per card = 157286.4 (157285) cards
* .178mm card thickness = 27996.73 mm high
/ 25.4mm per inch = 1102.233465 inches
/ 12 = 91.85278871 (91.85) feet
Mike Loewen mloewen at cpumagic.scol.pa.us
Old Technology http://sturgeon.css.psu.edu/~mloewen/Oldtech/ 
4:18 p.m.
Mike Loewen wrote:
On Thu, 26 Feb 2009, Gordon JC Pearce wrote:
Umm if you store binary ... that is 80 bytes per card .. 46 feet per file.
Now how many dec tapes is that?
Didn't someone once work out that to store a
single MP3 you'd need a
stack of 80-column cards ten miles high?
Assuming a 6MB MP3 file and 40 bytes per card:
6 * 1048576 = 6291456 bytes
/ 40 bytes per card = 157286.4 (157285) cards
* .178mm card thickness = 27996.73 mm high
/ 25.4mm per inch = 1102.233465 inches
/ 12 = 91.85278871 (91.85) feet
Mike Loewen mloewen at cpumagic.scol.pa.us
Old Technology http://sturgeon.css.psu.edu/~mloewen/Oldtech/ 
4:25 p.m.
New subject: MP3 on Punched Cards - Was: 1" paper tape buy ?
Actually, punched cards have twelve rows, so, with packing, you could
theoretically put 120 bytes on a card. 12*80=960/8=120
Rick
2 Mar
2 Mar
2:36 p.m.
New subject: MP3 files on DECtape [was RE: 1" paper tape buy ?]
From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca
Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2009 1:19 PM
Mike Loewen wrote:
> On Thu, 26 Feb 2009, Gordon JC Pearce wrote:
>> Didn't someone once work out that to store
a single MP3 you'd need a
>> stack of 80-column cards ten miles high?
> Assuming a 6MB MP3 file and 40 bytes per card:
> 6 * 1048576 = 6291456 bytes
> / 40 bytes per card = 157286.4 (157285) cards
> * .178mm card thickness = 27996.73 mm high
> / 25.4mm per inch = 1102.233465 inches
> / 12 = 91.85278871 (91.85) feet
Umm if you store binary ... that is 80 bytes per card
.. 46 feet per file.
Now how many dec tapes is that?
We'll assume a PDP-11 DECtape since we're discussing 8-bit bytes. Depending on
how we map those, the numbers can come out the same for PDP-1/4/7/9/15 and
PDP-10 tapes; PDP-5/8/12 tapes *will* be different.
A PDP-11 DECtape consists of 577 sectors of 256 words (= 512 bytes) each. If
we assume a non-directory tape (that is, written with a user program instead of
OS services), we can put (* 578 512) = 295936 bytes on a tape, so we will need
(/ 6291456 295936) = 22 DECtapes; there will be only (- 6291456 6214656) =
76800 bytes on the last tape.
If we instead choose to use a DECtape initialized by one of the various OSes,
we lose different numbers of blocks per tape depending on OS. For example, if
we use a Files-11 layout (RSX/IAS), we lose at least 10 blocks to filesystem
overhead (5120 bytes) per DECtape.
Rich Alderson
Vintage Computing Server Engineer
Vulcan, Inc.
505 5th Avenue S, Suite 900
Seattle, WA 98104
mailto:RichA at vulcan.com
(206) 342-2239
(206) 465-2916 cell
26 Feb
26 Feb
4:21 p.m.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roy J. Tellason" <rtellason at verizon.net>
To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"
<cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2009 8:37 PM
Subject: Re: 1" paper tape buy ?
On Thursday 26 February 2009 03:28:19 pm M H Stein
wrote:
I make it about 1600 MILES of tape for Vista.......
(at 10 characters per inch, and around 8GB for the last system backup I did
on a new machine)
Jim.
If you can't arrange a group buy and you
don't mind white/unprinted
then I could send you a couple of rolls; I don't see myself doing
anything with my PPT perfs and readers any time soon - think of
it: loading Vista from PPT... ;-)
Not that I ever wanna bother with Vista, but...
You'd need a forklift, at least!
4 Mar
4 Mar
7:36 p.m.
New subject: Paper Tape Sample was: Re: 1" paper tape buy ?
The thread concerning paper tape is timely for a different reason: A
law enforcement officer on another list that I track is seeking a sample
of paper tape to use as an example of vintage computer media for a law
enforcement forensics class that he teaches. Could one of the listers
here offer up a short roll of tape for posterity?.... He's trying to
buy it online without success (and definitely doesn't need a case of
it). Hopefully there's a scratch run or two laying around that someone
could spare...
S Shumaker
M H Stein wrote:
If you can't arrange a group buy and you don't
mind white/unprinted
then I could send you a couple of rolls; I don't see myself doing
anything with my PPT perfs and readers any time soon - think of
it: loading Vista from PPT... ;-)
Email off-list if interested.
mike
---------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2009 20:47:09 +0100
From: Henk Gooijen <henk.gooijen at hotmail.com>
Subject: 1" paper tape buy ?
Hi all,
I was searching for a company that sells 1" unoiled paper tape, here
in The Netherlands. No luck. After googling and many pages, I found
a company in the USA: http://www.wncsupply.com/paper-tape-rolls.html
I would like to buy one or two rolls of 1000 ft, order# 0400A,
R-V-PU471 Unoiled / Printed Top Arrow yellowish color, but it comes
in either a package of 28 rolls (1) and weighs 40 lbs, or in a quart
package, 7 rolls, still a weight of 10 lbs. The 7 rolls package costs
$80. That OK, but the shipping costs would make it quite expensive.
My question is simple.
Are there people on this list who also want to buy some rolls of 1"
nice looking yellow paper tape? I would take 2 (or 3) rolls.
Hint: Get a paper tape reader from an old CNC machine from eBay.
(I bought one for $30 and another for $79 two weeks ago). You can
interface such a reader to a computer, in my case the SBC6120 !
Think of it ... booting the SBC6120 from a paper tape. Is that cool?
The site also sells nice reels (http://www.wncsupply.com/reels.html).
I wanted to buy the 4" blue ones, but again shipping costs, aarggghh.
However, a nice lady from the company emailed me that she is looking
into the shipping costs, as the costs quoted on their site is a bit
high.
I hope to hear from one or two people also looking for a few paper
tape rolls ... Please contact me off list.
Links to other companies that sell 1" paper tape are also welcome!
Thanks,
- Henk, PA8PDP
5 Mar
5 Mar
1:54 p.m.
New subject: Paper Tape Sample was: Re: 1" paper tape buy ?
Thanks to all who offered! Problem is solved - Ian is helping out.
Steve Shumaker
-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: s shumaker <shumaker at att.net>
The thread concerning paper tape is timely for a different reason: A
law enforcement officer on another list that I track is seeking a sample
of paper tape to use as an example of vintage computer media for a law
enforcement forensics class that he teaches. Could one of the listers
here offer up a short roll of tape for posterity?.... He's trying to
buy it online without success (and definitely doesn't need a case of
it). Hopefully there's a scratch run or two laying around that someone
could spare...
S Shumaker
M H Stein wrote:
> If you can't arrange a group buy and you don't mind white/unprinted
> then I could send you a couple of rolls; I don't see myself doing
> anything with my PPT perfs and readers any time soon - think of
> it: loading Vista from PPT... ;-)
>
> Email off-list if interested.
>
> mike
> ---------------------------------------------------
>
> Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2009 20:47:09 +0100
> From: Henk Gooijen <henk.gooijen at hotmail.com>
> Subject: 1" paper tape buy ?
>
> Hi all,
>
> I was searching for a company that sells 1" unoiled paper tape, here
> in The Netherlands. No luck. After googling and many pages, I found
> a company in the USA: http://www.wncsupply.com/paper-tape-rolls.html
> I would like to buy one or two rolls of 1000 ft, order# 0400A,
> R-V-PU471 Unoiled / Printed Top Arrow yellowish color, but it comes
> in either a package of 28 rolls (1) and weighs 40 lbs, or in a quart
> package, 7 rolls, still a weight of 10 lbs. The 7 rolls package costs
> $80. That OK, but the shipping costs would make it quite expensive.
>
> My question is simple.
> Are there people on this list who also want to buy some rolls of 1"
> nice looking yellow paper tape? I would take 2 (or 3) rolls.
> Hint: Get a paper tape reader from an old CNC machine from eBay.
> (I bought one for $30 and another for $79 two weeks ago). You can
> interface such a reader to a computer, in my case the SBC6120 !
> Think of it ... booting the SBC6120 from a paper tape. Is that cool?
>
> The site also sells nice reels (http://www.wncsupply.com/reels.html).
> I wanted to buy the 4" blue ones, but again shipping costs, aarggghh.
> However, a nice lady from the company emailed me that she is looking
> into the shipping costs, as the costs quoted on their site is a bit
> high.
>
> I hope to hear from one or two people also looking for a few paper
> tape rolls ... Please contact me off list.
> Links to other companies that sell 1" paper tape are also welcome!
>
> Thanks,
> - Henk, PA8PDP
>
>
>
>
7 Mar
7 Mar
5:48 a.m.
New subject: Paper Tape Sample was: Re: 1" paper tape buy ?
s shumaker wrote:
The thread concerning paper tape is timely for a
different reason: A
law enforcement officer on another list that I track is seeking a sample
of paper tape to use as an example of vintage computer media for a law
enforcement forensics class that he teaches.
That sounds interesting. Can you get him to tell us a bit more about that?
Gordon
9:18 a.m.
New subject: Paper Tape Sample was: Re: 1" paper tape buy ?
I'll ask him. He was unaware of this list and asked me for info re
subscribing. Definitely wouldn't have managed that yet though so I'll ask.
steve
Gordon JC Pearce wrote:
s shumaker wrote:
The thread concerning paper tape is timely for a
different reason:
A law enforcement officer on another list that I track is seeking a
sample of paper tape to use as an example of vintage computer media
for a law enforcement forensics class that he teaches.
That sounds interesting. Can you get him to tell us a bit more about
that?
Gordon
9 Mar
9 Mar
11:42 p.m.
New subject: Paper Tape Sample was: Re: 1" paper tape buy ?
Gordon
In reply to your question, Detective Woodall sent me this:
Basically, I want to show newer officers the advancements from long ago
to todays storage and operating media.
I have a collection of various USB devices, hard disks (old and new) and
various storage media going back through floppies, syquest disks, zip,
old RLL interface drives, old 8 inch floppies, mainframe reels, and such
and continue back showing how we have advanced to todays solid state
drives with no moving parts. One of the pieces I use is my first
"portable" computer. It is an old Kaypro green screen that still works.
Folks get a kick out of that.
It is basically a show and tell presentation. As part of it, I also
talk about and show them ways of secreting data in hidden USB devices
and have a collection of "unique" USB drives and teach them things to
watch for when at an initial scene.
It is an entry level training session intended more to get them
interested in our field.
Charles Woodall Detective Ofc tel# 912-876-4555 Direct tel# 912-408-3110
Fax# 912-876-0797
s shumaker
Gordon JC Pearce wrote:
s shumaker wrote:
The thread concerning paper tape is timely for a
different reason:
A law enforcement officer on another list that I track is seeking a
sample of paper tape to use as an example of vintage computer media
for a law enforcement forensics class that he teaches.
That sounds interesting. Can you get him to tell us a bit more about
that?
Gordon
10 Mar
10 Mar
5:50 a.m.
New subject: Paper Tape Sample was: Re: 1" paper tape buy ?
s shumaker wrote:
Gordon
In reply to your question, Detective Woodall sent me this:
Basically, I want to show newer officers the advancements from long ago
to todays storage and operating media.
I have a collection of various USB devices, hard disks (old and new) and
various storage media going back through floppies, syquest disks, zip,
old RLL interface drives, old 8 inch floppies, mainframe reels, and such
and continue back showing how we have advanced to todays solid state
drives with no moving parts. One of the pieces I use is my first
"portable" computer. It is an old Kaypro green screen that still works.
Folks get a kick out of that.
It is basically a show and tell presentation. As part of it, I also
talk about and show them ways of secreting data in hidden USB devices
and have a collection of "unique" USB drives and teach them things to
watch for when at an initial scene.
It is an entry level training session intended more to get them
interested in our field.
Charles Woodall Detective Ofc tel# 912-876-4555 Direct tel# 912-408-3110
Fax# 912-876-0797
s shumaker
Thanks for that. Sounds pretty good, I wish it wasn't halfway round the
planet from me ;-)
Gordon
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