27 Dec
2017
27 Dec
'17
8:35 p.m.
Since I know there's tons of PDP/11 geniuses here, and other gurus with a NOVA 4, and
a Tektronix 4052 guy (I have the 4051):
What have you done, with microprogramming this part? In your architecture, have you
changed the microcode, create an instruction to enhance your machine?
I would be interested in any hardware projects, stories (or even in the FPGA, I hear its a
popular thing to copy);
I read all of Donnamaies pages, and planing to hook up, breadboard the eval kit, perhaps
reproduce the PCB if you guys are interested.
What about the coding tools? ADASM? Looks long gone, how do you do microcode today?
If I forget the soldering iron, can anyone show me an example on a Xilinx board, ISE,
Vivado that uses the original AMD 2900 architecture?
http://www.donnamaie.com/AMD_Vintage/AMD_2900_ED2900A.html
Donnamaie E. White - AMD 2900 Family, Bit-Slice; Am2900
...<http://www.donnamaie.com/AMD_Vintage/AMD_2900_ED2900A.html>
www.donnamaie.com
Lecture Monograph updated. The AMD 2900 Family (Am2900) Bit-Slice and other devices were
supported by a number of high-level application notes. (Generated by the AMD ...
27 Dec
27 Dec
11:05 p.m.
On 28.12.2017 05:35, Randy Dawson via cctalk wrote:
Since I know there's tons of PDP/11 geniuses here,
and other gurus with a NOVA 4, and a Tektronix 4052 guy (I have the 4051):
What have you done, with microprogramming this part? In your architecture, have you
changed the microcode, create an instruction to enhance your machine?
I changed the microcode in my 2901-based ETH Lilith such that it can use an ATA-harddisk
instead of the unobtainium SD-120 Mididisk.
It works in my Lilith emulator Emulith, sadly the real Lilith is still down with other
issues so it has not been tested with the real hardware.
What about the coding tools? ADASM? Looks long gone, how do you do microcode today?
As is to be expected the Lilith came with its own modula-2 based coding tool. I wipped up
another one in C.
Note that this is a lilith-microcode assembler, as it covers more than just the 2901.
I would expect this to be the case for other machines as well.
All tools & microcode and emulators are on my FTP site
Jos
28 Dec
28 Dec
9:18 a.m.
On 28.12.2017 05:35, Randy Dawson via cctalk wrote:
Oh, I first started out with an assembler macro hack, but it
was insanely cumbersome, due to the limits of the macro
capability of the Z-80 assembler I was using.
I then wrote a micro-assembler in Pascal. It was better,
but still pretty cumbersome. There's a good chance that if
I actually had gotten to writing the full 360 microcode I
would have come up with improvements.
Here's a little test program for the old asm macro-based
assembler:
;DIM LIGHT PROG FOR MICRO ASSEMBLER
MACLIB UASM
INIT
; DEFINE 2 CONSTANTS IN SCRATCH PAD
SPONE DEFCON 1
SP4096 DEFCON 4096
; END OF CONSTANTS
DIM REGS GPR0,GPR0,GPR0 ;CLEAR GPR0
FUNC ZERO
CTRL CONT
GEN
REGS ACONST,GPR1,GPR1 ;COPY SPONE TO GPR1
DEST PASSWRT
FUNC APLUSCY
CONST SPONE
CTRL CONT
GEN
REGS ACONST,GPR3,GPR3 ;COPY SP4096 TO GPR3
DEST PASSWRT
FUNC APLUSCY
CONST SP4096
CTRL CONT
GEN
BIGLP REGS GPR0,GPR0,GPR0 ;INC GPR0, MOVE TO
COUNTER
DEST PASSWRT
FUNC APLUSCY
CY ONE
CTRL LDRCONT
NA 0,I ;CBUS => CTR
GEN
HILOOP REGS GPR2,GPR2,GPR2 ;ALL ONES TO CBUS
DEST PASSWRT
FUNC ALLONE
CTRL REPLNA
NA HILOOP
The GEN command generates one micro-instruction word from
all the keywords above it.
Here's what my 2nd gen Pascal micro-assembler code looked like :
CODE
; TITLE muldiv
;This program does multiply and divide on 2903/2904 32 bit CPU
; UNSIGNED MULTIPLY 32 X 32 => 64
; CLEAR R0 FOR MS PRODUCT
; MULTIPLICAND IN R1, MULTIPLIER IN R2
; PRODUCT IN R0 (MS) AND R1 (LS)
ORG 0
UMULT R=GPR0,GPR0,GPR0,F=ZERO,D=W ;CLEAR GPR0
R=GPR2,GPR2,GPR2,D=LDQ&W,F=A+CY,Q=LDRCONT,N=31 ;mOVE
MPLIER TO Q REG
;#MPLY CYCLES -1 => CTR
UMLP R=GPR1,GPR0,GPR0,D=MPYUSG,F=SPEC,Q=REPLNA,N=UMLP
;***** SHFT USGMPY
R=GPR1,GPR1,GPR1,F=Q+CY,D=W ;COPY LS PROD IN Q TO R1
UWAIT D=PASS,F=ZERO,Q=JUMP,N=UWAIT ;hang for user
to check result
; END OF UNSIGNED MULTIPLY
;
;
; SIGNED MULTIPLY 32 X 32 => 64
; CLEAR R0 FOR MS PRODUCT
; MULTIPLICAND IN R1, MULTIPLIER IN R2
; PRODUCT IN R0 (MS) AND R1 (LS)
SMULT r=GPR0,GPR0,GPR0,F=ZERO,D=W ;CLEAR GPR0
r=GPR2,GPR2,GPR2,D=LDQ&W,F=A+CY,Q=LDRCONT,N=30 ;mOVE
MPLIER TO Q REG
;#MPLY CYCLES -2 => CTR
SMLP r=GPR1,GPR0,GPR0,D=MPY2CM,F=SPEC,Q=REPLNA,N=SMLP ;2S
COMPL MPY
;***** SHFT MPY2CM
r=GPR1,GPR0,GPR0,D=MPY2LST,F=SPEC ;2S COMPL MPY LAST
CYCLE
r=GPR1,GPR1,GPR1,F=Q+CY,D=W ;COPY LS PROD IN Q TO R1
SWAIT D=PASS,F=ZERO,Q=JUMP,N=SWAIT ;hang for user
to check result
; END OF UNSIGNED MULTIPLY
END
This tests the multiply functions on the 2903. The tab
formatting got messed up pasting this here,
it looked better in the original form.
Jon
What about the coding tools? ADASM? Looks long
gone, how
do you do microcode today?
12:43 a.m.
Randy Dawson via cctalk wrote:
Since I know there's tons of PDP/11 geniuses here,
and other gurus with a NOVA 4, and a Tektronix 4052 guy (I have the 4051):
What have you done, with microprogramming this part? In your architecture, have you
changed the microcode, create an instruction to enhance your machine?
I would be interested in any hardware projects, stories (or even in the FPGA, I hear its
a popular thing to copy);
I read all of Donnamaies pages, and planing to hook up, breadboard the eval kit, perhaps
reproduce the PCB if you guys are interested.
What about the coding tools? ADASM? Looks long gone, how do you do microcode today?
If I forget the soldering iron, can anyone show me an example on a Xilinx board, ISE,
Vivado that uses the original AMD 2900 architecture?
http://www.donnamaie.com/AMD_Vintage/AMD_2900_ED2900A.html
Donnamaie E. White - AMD 2900 Family, Bit-Slice; Am2900
...<http://www.donnamaie.com/AMD_Vintage/AMD_2900_ED2900A.html>
www.donnamaie.com
Lecture Monograph updated. The AMD 2900 Family (Am2900) Bit-Slice and other devices were
supported by a number of high-level application notes. (Generated by the AMD ...
The Micorocode Assembler should be here:
$ ls
am290x-simulator-1.01-simulator.exe am290x-Software-AMDOS32K.zip
am290x-Software-AMDOS1.zip am290x-Software-AMDOS4.zip
am290x-Software-AMDOS2.zip am290x-Software-AMDOS5.zip
am290x-Software-AMDOS3.zip
$ unzip -l am290x-Software-AMDOS1.zip
Archive: am290x-Software-AMDOS1.zip
Length Date Time Name
-------- ---- ---- ----
0 12-07-12 04:00 AMDOS1/
3072 12-07-12 04:07 AMDOS1/AMDOS.SYS
5632 12-07-12 04:08 AMDOS1/AMUSRTTY.MAC
768 12-07-12 04:08 AMDOS1/CHECKSUM.DAT
768 12-07-12 04:08 AMDOS1/CHKSUM.DAT
1280 12-07-12 04:08 AMDOS1/CPYDSK.CPM
3840 12-07-12 04:07 AMDOS1/CREF.CPM
4864 12-07-12 04:07 AMDOS1/DDT.CPM
1792 12-07-12 04:07 AMDOS1/DISPL.CPM
3328 12-07-12 04:07 AMDOS1/DUMP.CPM
6656 12-07-12 04:07 AMDOS1/ED.CPM
7424 12-07-12 04:07 AMDOS1/FILCOM.CPM
2816 12-07-12 04:08 AMDOS1/FORMAT.CPM
4736 12-07-12 04:07 AMDOS1/LIB.CPM
8960 12-07-12 04:07 AMDOS1/LINK.CPM
18304 12-07-12 04:07 AMDOS1/MAC.CPM
7424 12-07-12 04:07 AMDOS1/PIP.CPM
4736 12-07-12 04:08 AMDOS1/PLPROG.CPM
3712 12-07-12 04:08 AMDOS1/PPROG.CPM
36352 12-07-12 04:07 AMDOS1/PREHEAT.CPM
5248 12-07-12 04:07 AMDOS1/STAT.CPM
1280 12-07-12 04:07 AMDOS1/SUBMIT.CPM
1024 12-07-12 04:08 AMDOS1/SYSGEN.CPM
512 12-07-12 04:08 AMDOS1/VFU.CPM
768 12-07-12 04:07 AMDOS1/XSUB.CPM
$ unzip -l am290x-Software-AMDOS2.zip
Archive: am290x-Software-AMDOS2.zip
Length Date Time Name
-------- ---- ---- ----
0 12-07-12 04:00 AMDOS2/
2432 12-07-12 04:08 AMDOS2/AFT.CPM
24064 12-07-12 04:08 AMDOS2/AMDHST.C
48384 12-07-12 04:09 AMDOS2/AMDHST.FOR
384 12-07-12 04:09 AMDOS2/CHKSUM.DAT
3328 12-07-12 04:09 AMDOS2/FILEXF6.CPM
3328 12-07-12 04:09 AMDOS2/FILEXF96.CPM
10880 12-07-12 04:09 AMDOS2/HEX2AMD.CPM
$ unzip -l am290x-Software-AMDOS3.zip
Archive: am290x-Software-AMDOS3.zip
Length Date Time Name
-------- ---- ---- ----
0 12-07-12 04:00 AMDOS3/
8960 12-07-12 04:10 AMDOS3/AM2900.LIB
11008 12-07-12 04:10 AMDOS3/AMDASM.CPM
13184 12-07-12 04:10 AMDOS3/AMMAP.CPM
17664 12-07-12 04:10 AMDOS3/AMPROM.CPM
9472 12-07-12 04:10 AMDOS3/AMSCRM.CPM
256 12-07-12 04:10 AMDOS3/ASMDEMO.SUB
512 12-07-12 04:10 AMDOS3/CHKSUM.DAT
3200 12-07-12 04:10 AMDOS3/DDT29.CPM
384 12-07-12 04:10 AMDOS3/DDTDEMO.SUB
128 12-07-12 04:09 AMDOS3/JUMP.DEF
256 12-07-12 04:10 AMDOS3/JUMP.SRC
2944 12-07-12 04:09 AMDOS3/LBPM.CPM
1664 12-07-12 04:10 AMDOS3/PFORMAT.CPM
2048 12-07-12 04:09 AMDOS3/RBPM.CPM
2304 12-07-12 04:09 AMDOS3/SBPM.CPM
3072 12-07-12 04:10 AMDOS3/VBPM.CPM
$ unzip -l am290x-Software-AMDOS4.zip
Archive: am290x-Software-AMDOS4.zip
Length Date Time Name
-------- ---- ---- ----
0 12-07-12 04:00 AMDOS4/
9600 12-07-12 04:12 AMDOS4/AM29203.SRC
25216 12-07-12 04:11 AMDOS4/AM29CPU.DEF
384 12-07-12 04:12 AMDOS4/CHKSUM.DAT
27264 12-07-12 04:11 AMDOS4/CONTROLR.DEF
4480 12-07-12 04:12 AMDOS4/CONTROLR.SRC
15872 12-07-12 04:12 AMDOS4/DISK.DOC
21376 12-07-12 04:11 AMDOS4/DISKCTLR.DEF
32384 12-07-12 04:11 AMDOS4/DISKCTLR.SRC
$ unzip -l am290x-Software-AMDOS5.zip
Archive: am290x-Software-AMDOS5.zip
Length Date Time Name
-------- ---- ---- ----
0 12-07-12 04:00 AMDOS5/
6144 12-07-12 04:13 AMDOS5/CATALOG.DM8
512 12-07-12 04:13 AMDOS5/CHKSUM.DAT
53760 12-07-12 04:13 AMDOS5/DM8.CPM
384 12-07-12 04:13 AMDOS5/GROUPS.DM8
3200 12-07-12 04:13 AMDOS5/MNEBSP.OVL
3328 12-07-12 04:13 AMDOS5/MNED29.OVL
2944 12-07-12 04:12 AMDOS5/MNESCR.OVL
3200 12-07-12 04:13 AMDOS5/MNESST.OVL
3200 12-07-12 04:13 AMDOS5/MNETRC.OVL
3328 12-07-12 04:13 AMDOS5/MNETRG.OVL
3200 12-07-12 04:13 AMDOS5/MNEWAVE.OVL
768 12-07-12 04:13 AMDOS5/TESTLIST.DM8
52480 12-07-12 04:12 AMDOS5/TRACE29.CPM
11136 12-07-12 04:13 AMDOS5/TRCDIAG.REL
$
..but this is CP/M Software and there are other opensource
Metaassemblers out there that don't need a amulated CP/M.
Since some years I'm collecting chips and software around the AM2901 and
wanted to build something out of them..never had enough time.
I'm interesetd in a demo board.
The copyright Status of the Assembler is unclear, that's the cause for
not replaying to cctalk.
Regards,
Holm
--
Technik Service u. Handel Tiffe, www.tsht.de, Holm Tiffe,
Freiberger Stra?e 42, 09600 Obersch?na, USt-Id: DE253710583
info at tsht.de Fax +49 3731 74200 Tel +49 3731 74222 Mobil: 0172 8790 741
11:22 a.m.
On 12/28/17 12:43 AM, Holm Tiffe via cctalk wrote:
The Micorocode Assembler should be here:
http://bitsavers.org/bits/AMD/AM29
manuals
http://bitsavers.org/pdf/amd/amsys29/
1:09 a.m.
On 12/27/2017 9:35 PM, Randy Dawson via cctalk wrote:
Since I know there's tons of PDP/11 geniuses here,
and other gurus
with a NOVA 4, and a Tektronix 4052 guy (I have the 4051):
What have you done, with microprogramming this part? In your
architecture, have you changed the microcode, create an instruction
to enhance your machine?
I would be interested in any hardware projects, stories (or even in
the FPGA, I hear its a popular thing to copy);
I read all of Donnamaies pages, and planing to hook up, breadboard
the eval kit, perhaps reproduce the PCB if you guys are interested.
What about the coding tools? ADASM? Looks long gone, how do you do
microcode today?
If I forget the soldering iron, can anyone show me an example on a
Xilinx board, ISE, Vivado that uses the original AMD 2900
architecture?
http://www.donnamaie.com/AMD_Vintage/AMD_2900_ED2900A.html
Donnamaie E. White - AMD 2900 Family, Bit-Slice; Am2900
...<http://www.donnamaie.com/AMD_Vintage/AMD_2900_ED2900A.html>
www.donnamaie.com Lecture Monograph updated. The AMD 2900 Family
(Am2900) Bit-Slice and other devices were supported by a number of
high-level application notes. (Generated by the AMD ...
The ALU of the DEC KS10 used 10x Am2901s. An example of that ALU
coded in verilog is at:
https://github.com/KS10FPGA/KS10FPGA/blob/master/fpga/ks10/cpu/alu.v
Rob Doyle
9:05 a.m.
On 12/27/2017 10:35 PM, Randy Dawson via cctalk wrote:
Here's my 32-bit 2903 project. It was to roughly emulate an
IBM 360. But, I realized there would be an IMMENSE software
slog ahead to get a usable computer system. (If I had known
about the Unix 360 system, I might have continued with it,
but I never heard of that until much later.)
http://pico-systems.com/stories/1982.html
Jon
9:53 a.m.
On 12/27/2017 9:35 PM, Randy Dawson via cctalk wrote:
Since I know there's tons of PDP/11 geniuses here,
and other gurus with a NOVA 4, and a Tektronix 4052 guy (I have the 4051):
Well I am not one of them. 2901's seem only on epay now, so lack of
parts have kept me from designing with them. A plan to work on a quick
and dirty core memory like 20 bit computer from about 1975 ish.
Rather than microcode I plan to use random logic with 22v10's replacing
82s100's that would be used at the time. Cycle time is about 1.25 us
with a simple front panel.
Ben.
10:51 a.m.
Wirewrapped the design in the 2900 family guide sometime in the 70s it even
worked. No idea what became of it
On Thu, Dec 28, 2017 at 9:53 AM, ben via cctalk <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
wrote:
On 12/27/2017 9:35 PM, Randy Dawson via cctalk wrote:
Since I know there's tons of PDP/11 geniuses
here, and other gurus with a
NOVA 4, and a Tektronix 4052 guy (I have the 4051):
Well I am not one of them. 2901's seem only on epay now, so lack of parts
have kept me from designing with them. A plan to work on a quick
and dirty core memory like 20 bit computer from about 1975 ish.
Rather than microcode I plan to use random logic with 22v10's replacing
82s100's that would be used at the time. Cycle time is about 1.25 us
with a simple front panel.
Ben.
11:47 a.m.
On 12/27/2017 8:35 PM, Randy Dawson via cctalk wrote:
Since I know there's tons of PDP/11 geniuses here,
and other gurus with a NOVA 4, and a Tektronix 4052 guy (I have the 4051):
What have you done, with microprogramming this part? In your architecture, have you
changed the microcode, create an instruction to enhance your machine?
I would be interested in any hardware projects, stories (or even in the FPGA, I hear its
a popular thing to copy);
The Ultimate Corporation licensed the Pick system to run on Honeywell
hardware (among others).? Initial implementation was on a DPS6 with WCS
written for the DPS6 in a firmware extension of the DPS6 firmware that
executed Pick directly.? Parts of the DPS6 instructions routines were
used, as well as using a kernel written in DPS6 assembler to run the
peripherals, disk tape, and serial ports.
Very early a co-processor which was exclusive to Pick was designed and
it was implemented with 2901 hardware.? The design for that board was a
32 bit wide arithmetic and logical system.? it had only handshakes with
its host system and no I/O.? It used host memory for the pick system
since the pick system is a virtual architecture.
The Honeywell incarnation of the co-processor was hosted on a disk
controller derived host board modified and supplied to Ultimate by
Honeywell.? Another version was implemented for the PDP 11 qbus and had
a custom host adapter to couple the co-processor to the host.
The host in either case ran a kernel for I/O and other such tasks, as
well as being the main boot processor and control in both cases.
It was required that systems boot from either half inch tape or disk
(once installed).
The 2901 firmware was implemented with the Pick assembler which is table
driven.? I don't think much of it would assemble on an AMD tool, as is
the case with most Pick assemblers.? It is easy to get the pick system
to do your assembler if you use the conventions of the syntax they use.?
However there was generally a desire on both honeywell and dec to have
all tools resident on Pick.? there were no toolchains in the released
and production product that was not completely hosted on that system.
Debugging in all cases was done with tools from Hilevel of Irvine. Bjorn
Dahlberg, founder of Hilevel came up with a concept to integrate rom
simulation and hardware simulation tools, and assembler and tools into a
product, and had a very flexible tool that could accomodate most
variations for such as bitslice designs needed.? Since the designer
specified all but the basic 4 bit width, the number of slices coupled,
the micro sequencing and other features as one might put into a
microprocessor system had to be dealt with.
Hilevel tools would allow you to simulate all eproms or proms in a
system, and load them dynamically.? They also had a very powerful
assembler / linker / loader tool that they would use to provide a
working environment with a support computer attached to their rom simulator.
They also would allow you to add run control to the system, to allow
stepping tracing start / stop or any other controls you needed by
routing signals out to the Hilevel box, and then assigning commands to
control the signals.
For example instead of having to flip a bunch of bits to start or step
your system, you set up a macro to do something and could name it "step"
or "run" or whatever.? There were comparators to allow one to do
breakpoints.? Also I know of some cases where register examinations were
done.
I think the Ultimate projects were probably a test case for them as far
as features.? Mr. Dahlberg had previously worked @ Microdata as had most
of the Ultimate folks (others were Pick people), and that helped.
Thanks
Jim
6 Jan
6 Jan
3:01 p.m.
On 2017-12-27 21:35, Randy Dawson via cctalk wrote:
What have you done, with microprogramming this part?
In your architecture, have you changed the microcode, create an instruction to enhance
your machine?
I would be interested in any hardware projects, stories (or even in the FPGA, I hear its
a popular thing to copy);
I hope you saw this one. Fresh on opencores:
https://opencores.org/project,am9080_cpu_based_on_microcoded_am29xx_bit-sli…
cheers
7 Jan
7 Jan
6:46 p.m.
On 1/6/2018 4:01 PM, emanuel stiebler via cctalk wrote:
On 2017-12-27 21:35, Randy Dawson via cctalk wrote:
I don't expect many people will copy that. A FPGA 8080 runs darn fast as
is. Ben.
PS: I plan to have some sort of 20 or 24 cpu bit 2901 running in a DE1
FPGA this spring. 3 - 7 bit bytes (21/20 bit wide memory for the 20 bit
CPU) or 3 - 8 bit bytes with a 24 bit cpu. Might need to order more
Front panel switches how ever.
What have you done, with microprogramming this
part?? In your
architecture,? have you changed the microcode, create an instruction
to enhance your machine?
I would be interested in any hardware projects, stories (or even in
the FPGA, I hear its a popular thing to copy);
I hope you saw this one. Fresh on opencores:
https://opencores.org/project,am9080_cpu_based_on_microcoded_am29xx_bit-sli…
cheers
8 Jan
8 Jan
6:55 a.m.
On 2018-01-07 19:46, ben via cctalk wrote:
On 1/6/2018 4:01 PM, emanuel stiebler via cctalk
wrote:
And I don't expect people in this group to look for "fast". I think they
are interested in "cool" or historically significant. And it is cool,
that finally somebody took the am9080 application note and put it into
an FPGA. It is a nice start to a lot of bit slice designs.
On 2017-12-27 21:35, Randy Dawson via cctalk
wrote:
I don't expect many people will copy that. A FPGA 8080 runs darn fast as
is. Ben. What have you done, with microprogramming this
part?? In your
architecture,? have you changed the microcode, create an instruction
to enhance your machine?
I would be interested in any hardware projects, stories (or even in
the FPGA, I hear its a popular thing to copy);
I hope you saw this one. Fresh on opencores:
https://opencores.org/project,am9080_cpu_based_on_microcoded_am29xx_bit-sli…
cheers
PS: I plan to have some sort of 20 or 24 cpu bit 2901
running in a DE1
FPGA this spring. 3 - 7 bit bytes (21/20 bit wide memory for the 20 bit
CPU) or 3 - 8 bit bytes with a 24 bit cpu. Might need to order more
Front panel switches how ever.
Good luck!
2307
days inactive
2318
days old
12 comments
10 participants
participants (10)
-
aek＠bitsavers.org -
bfranchuk＠jetnet.ab.ca -
elson＠pico-systems.com -
emu＠e-bbes.com -
holm＠freibergnet.de -
jos.dreesen＠bluewin.ch -
jwsmail＠jwsss.com -
pete＠petelancashire.com -
radioengr＠gmail.com -
rdawson16＠hotmail.com