5 May
2011
5 May
'11
4:09 p.m.
OK, so someone gave me a nice 40U equipment rack. I was planning on
using it for my Nuclear Data ND812, which has rackmount plates for
everything. I first experimented with the empty dual 8" floppy rack
unit and a couple things came up.
For reference take a look at these photos to see the ND812 rack units:
<http://picasaweb.google.com/legalize.slc/NuclearDataND812#>
First, I'd like to minimize the potential for scratching the paint on
the rack mount plates. Should I use a plastic or teflon washer between
the plate and the mounting screw? Like most rackmount equipment, the
only support is from that front panel, so it has to be mounted pretty
tight to support the weight.
The maintenance manual doesn't say anything specific about mounting the
equipment in a rack. Is it typical for things to be supported only by
that front mounting panel, or do people add some kind of additional
support in the rear?
--
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5 May
5 May
4:20 p.m.
no its not just face mount theres also some shelf brakets they rest on to
help suport it i shoulda grabed the ones for the pdp8 i found not to late to
get em but yea
On Thu, May 5, 2011 at 11:09 AM, Richard <legalize at xmission.com> wrote:
OK, so someone gave me a nice 40U equipment rack. I
was planning on
using it for my Nuclear Data ND812, which has rackmount plates for
everything. I first experimented with the empty dual 8" floppy rack
unit and a couple things came up.
For reference take a look at these photos to see the ND812 rack units:
<http://picasaweb.google.com/legalize.slc/NuclearDataND812#>
First, I'd like to minimize the potential for scratching the paint on
the rack mount plates. Should I use a plastic or teflon washer between
the plate and the mounting screw? Like most rackmount equipment, the
only support is from that front panel, so it has to be mounted pretty
tight to support the weight.
The maintenance manual doesn't say anything specific about mounting the
equipment in a rack. Is it typical for things to be supported only by
that front mounting panel, or do people add some kind of additional
support in the rear?
--
"The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline" -- DirectX 9 draft available for download
<http://legalizeadulthood.wordpress.com/the-direct3d-graphics-pipeline/>
Legalize Adulthood! <http://legalizeadulthood.wordpress.com>
4:36 p.m.
On 5 May 2011 at 11:20, Adrian Stoness wrote:
no its not just face mount theres also some shelf
brakets they rest on
to help suport it i shoulda grabed the ones for the pdp8 i found not
to late to get em but yea
It's also customary to use oval-head screws and cup washers to secure
rackmount panels, although that's a custom that seems to be
vanishing. Distributes the load a bit and gives a nice finished look
to the mouthing. If you gotta show screwheads, might as well look
pretty.
You can use commercial slides or just cut up and drill some angle
iron to provide support. I've even riveted standard ball-bearing
drawer glides to some to provide a pull-out shelf. Looks very
professional, particularly if the shelf is covered with laminate or
made of appropriately-edged melanine-finished MDF.
--Chuck
4:29 p.m.
On 05/05/2011 17:09, Richard wrote:
First, I'd like to minimize the potential for
scratching the paint on
the rack mount plates. Should I use a plastic or teflon washer between
the plate and the mounting screw?
Yes, but...
The maintenance manual doesn't say anything
specific about mounting the
equipment in a rack. Is it typical for things to be supported only by
that front mounting panel, or do people add some kind of additional
support in the rear?
It's usual for deep and/or heavy items to be mounted on rails, not by
the front panel. Often the holes in the front are just for extra screws
to stop the equipment sliding out. None of your pictures show the sides
of the equipment; aren't there any screw holes that might indicate there
was provision to fit rails?
If not, I'd suggest you use a shelf that's supported at front and rear,
or (as I did on a unit that was the right size but had neither provision
for rails nor a suitable front flange) put some Dexion or steel angle at
the appropriate height between the front and rear rack uprights. If you
don't, you run the risk of bending the front plate or even the rack, or
stripping a screw.
--
Pete Peter Turnbull
Network Manager
University of York
5:10 p.m.
In article <4DC2D07B.3060309 at dunnington.plus.com>,
Pete Turnbull <pete at dunnington.plus.com> writes:
It's usual for deep and/or heavy items to be
mounted on rails, not by
the front panel.
None of these racks have rail mounts. All of them have casings that
have small machine screws that attach the casing to the sides.
If not, I'd suggest you use a shelf that's
supported at front and rear,
OK, but the shelves I've seen attach to the racks at the same place
where the faceplates would attach to the rack. So how do you
accommodate both?
--
"The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline" -- DirectX 9 draft available for download
<http://legalizeadulthood.wordpress.com/the-direct3d-graphics-pipeline/>
Legalize Adulthood! <http://legalizeadulthood.wordpress.com>
5:37 p.m.
On 5/5/2011 10:10 AM, Richard wrote:
In article<4DC2D07B.3060309 at
dunnington.plus.com>,
Pete Turnbull<pete at dunnington.plus.com> writes:
There are some that mount from the rear of the retma rail in the
front,
and some that mount upside down where there is not equipment below to
interfere.
Microdata used a custom sheet metal house, Full Metal fab to do all of
their units and though you would think there would be interferences,
they designed the trays where they were used to attach and not interfere
with the equipment bay retma attachments.
If you have modern trays and can do it, mount them upside down. This
assumes they don't have any downward protruding lips which would then be
upward interfering with the equipment.
It's usual for deep and/or heavy items to be
mounted on rails, not by
the front panel.
None of these racks have rail mounts. All of them have casings
that
have small machine screws that attach the casing to the sides.
If not, I'd suggest you use a shelf
that's supported at front and rear,
OK, but the shelves I've seen attach to
the racks at the same place
where the faceplates would attach to the rack. So how do you
accommodate both? 
5:41 p.m.
I have rack shelves that sandwich behind the rack mounts and wrap
under the device,
like the rack tray here
http://www.leadsdirect.co.uk/productinfo/rackaccessories.html
or something like
http://www.bryant-unlimited.co.uk/HDRS%2002B
Dave Caroline
7:27 p.m.
Thanks for all the suggestions, guys. This really helps me out and
confirms my queasiness at just mounting things from the front flanges.
I'm glad I experimented with the empty floppy rack unit first :-).
--
"The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline" -- DirectX 9 draft available for download
<http://legalizeadulthood.wordpress.com/the-direct3d-graphics-pipeline/>
Legalize Adulthood! <http://legalizeadulthood.wordpress.com>
7:22 p.m.
On 05/05/2011 18:10, Richard wrote:
I suspect you're thinking of what we call "cantilever shelves" like the
ones in the first page Dave suggested (they call them "rack trays") --
they mount on the front of the front column. I mean a rectangular
platform that bolts to the inner faces (not the front or back faces) of
the front and rear columns of the rack. On the ones we have, the
mounting faces of the shelf are /below/ the upper surface.
eg
http://www.dataracks.co.uk/products/accessories/shelves/?artid=157&page…
or
http://www.dataracks.co.uk/products/accessories/shelves/?artid=157&page…
or even
http://www.dataracks.co.uk/products/accessories/shelves/?artid=140&page…
but not
http://www.dataracks.co.uk/products/accessories/shelves/?artid=131&page…
which are a pain in the proverbial.
Or you could use these:
http://www.dataracks.co.uk/products/accessories/shelves/?artid=158&page…
by pretending your server is a rather thick shelf :-)
--
Pete Peter Turnbull
Network Manager
University of York
Pete Turnbull <pete at dunnington.plus.com>
writes:
If not,
I'd suggest you use a shelf that's supported at front and rear,
OK, but the shelves I've seen attach to the racks at the same place
where the faceplates would attach to the rack. So how do you
accommodate both?
9:44 p.m.
On 5 May 2011 at 20:22, Pete Turnbull wrote:
http://www.dataracks.co.uk/products/accessories/shelves/?artid=131&pag
eNum=0&blk=78 which are a pain in the proverbial.
Or you could use these:
http://www.dataracks.co.uk/products/accessories/shelves/?artid=158&pag
eNum=0&blk=78 by pretending your server is a rather thick shelf :-)
Those look pretty flimsly. The Fuji X2444 tape drive in mine is
supported by heavy steel fron-to-back brackets. But then the drive
weighs well over 100 lbs. I've got it installed in an old HP Storage
Array rack--and I repurposed a few of the drive support brackets as
equipment supports as well.
If you're going to load heavy gear into a tall rack with roll-around
casters, make sure that it has an anti-tip feature, should you hit a
bump in the floor.
--Chuck
11:01 p.m.
On 05/05/2011 22:44, Chuck Guzis wrote:
Those look pretty flimsly. The Fuji X2444 tape drive
in mine is
supported by heavy steel fron-to-back brackets. But then the drive
weighs well over 100 lbs. I've got it installed in an old HP Storage
Array rack--and I repurposed a few of the drive support brackets as
equipment supports as well.
Those support rails are actually pretty strong, the steel is thicker
than it looks.
If you're going to load heavy gear into a tall
rack with roll-around
casters, make sure that it has an anti-tip feature, should you hit a
bump in the floor.
We never roll racks around except when empty; all ours are mounted on
plinth feet rather than casters. In data centres, they only get moved
whn commissioned or decommissioned, and in wiring centres, well, they're
kind of tethered :-)
And at home I don't have any space left to move the racks :-)
--
Pete Peter Turnbull
Network Manager
University of York
6 May
6 May
2:55 a.m.
On Thu, May 5, 2011 at 2:44 PM, Chuck Guzis <cclist at sydex.com> wrote:
Those look pretty flimsly. ?The Fuji X2444 tape drive in mine is
supported by heavy steel fron-to-back brackets. ?But then the drive
weighs well over 100 lbs. ?I've got it installed in an old HP Storage
Array rack--and I repurposed a few of the drive support brackets as
equipment supports as well.
100 lbs? More like 200 lbs according to the manual. That seems about
right from when I had to move my M2444AC up a couple of stairs out of
the garage by myself.
-Glen
3:18 a.m.
On 5 May 2011 at 19:55, Glen Slick wrote:
100 lbs? More like 200 lbs according to the manual.
That seems about
right from when I had to move my M2444AC up a couple of stairs out of
the garage by myself.
no doubt; it's pretty beefy.
I seem to recall that the hard part was getting it safely from the
bed of my pickup to the mover's dolly on the floor. I needed help
with that. A neighbor and a couple of microbrews took care of that,
but he didn't want to attempt the stairway...
After that, it was floor of the garage, to some 2x6s over the stairs,
off the dolly, up to the office and the dolly and thence into the
rack, which already had the slides installed. There are some times
that you're grateful for friction.
If I have to move it out, I figure it'd just be easier to torch the
place and collect the insurance money...
--Chuck
3:23 a.m.
In article <4DC30600.21853.2937A0C at cclist.sydex.com>,
"Chuck Guzis" <cclist at sydex.com> writes:
On 5 May 2011 at 19:55, Glen Slick wrote:
I believe I have this same drive. Its damned heavy. IIRC, I used a
ramp and a winch strap to inch it into the back of my car and then had
help unloading/moving it. Currently its sitting on the base shelf of
a 3' high 19" rack with casters so I can move the thing about.
Mine has a Pertec interface. I picked it up from a local seller for
$0.99 on ebay.
--
"The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline" -- DirectX 9 draft available for download
<http://legalizeadulthood.wordpress.com/the-direct3d-graphics-pipeline/>
Legalize Adulthood! <http://legalizeadulthood.wordpress.com>
100 lbs? More like 200 lbs according to the
manual. That seems about
right from when I had to move my M2444AC up a couple of stairs out of
the garage by myself.
no doubt; it's pretty beefy.
I seem to recall that the hard part was getting it safely from the
bed of my pickup to the mover's dolly on the floor.
5 a.m.
On 5 May 2011 at 21:23, Richard wrote:
I believe I have this same drive. Its damned heavy.
IIRC, I used a
ramp and a winch strap to inch it into the back of my car and then had
help unloading/moving it. Currently its sitting on the base shelf of
a 3' high 19" rack with casters so I can move the thing about.
Mine has a Pertec interface. I picked it up from a local seller for
$0.99 on ebay. -
Got you beat by $0.99. A friend had one sold as surplus inventory by
Intel. Brand-new, still in original packing with all the paperwork
and rack mounts and a note taped to the front: '''Won't power up".
He figured that he'd never get around to fixing it, so he offered it
to me if I'd get it out of his garage.
I was all set for a nice troubleshooting session, when I looked at
the voltage-select jumpers on the rear. They were set for 240VAC and
the unit shipped with a 120VAC line cord. Swapped a couple of
jumpers and the thing came right up.
Sometimes you get lucky.
--Chuck
5:14 a.m.
In article <4DC31DF8.11330.2F11B1A at cclist.sydex.com>,
"Chuck Guzis" <cclist at sydex.com> writes:
On 5 May 2011 at 21:23, Richard wrote:
Show off! :-)
I think the guy would have given it away if he thought anyone would be
interested and just listed it on ebay as something easier than
figuring out how to scrap/trash the thing.
I believe I have this same drive. Its damned
heavy. IIRC, I used a
ramp and a winch strap to inch it into the back of my car and then had
help unloading/moving it. Currently its sitting on the base shelf of
a 3' high 19" rack with casters so I can move the thing about.
Mine has a Pertec interface. I picked it up from a local seller for
$0.99 on ebay. -
Got you beat by $0.99. Sometimes you get lucky.
I consider my $0.99 haul lucky :-). Is yours the pertec interface?
--
"The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline" -- DirectX 9 draft available for download
<http://legalizeadulthood.wordpress.com/the-direct3d-graphics-pipeline/>
Legalize Adulthood! <http://legalizeadulthood.wordpress.com>
5:55 a.m.
On 5 May 2011 at 23:14, Richard wrote:
I consider my $0.99 haul lucky :-). Is yours the
pertec interface?
Yup. I know that there was supposedly a SCSI interface card for
these, but I've never seen one for real. I think the bulk of these
things are mostly due to Sun installations and, AFAIK, they used only
the Pertec interface.
--Chuck
6:21 a.m.
On Thu, 5 May 2011, Richard wrote:
In article <4DC31DF8.11330.2F11B1A at
cclist.sydex.com>,
"Chuck Guzis" <cclist at sydex.com> writes:
My story is that I scored a couple IMSAIs and Altairs with the catch that
I had to take most of the contents of the shed. I'm still selling off
that stuff.
--
David Griffith
dgriffi at cs.csubak.edu
A: Because it fouls the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
A: Top-posting.
Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail?
On 5 May 2011 at 21:23, Richard wrote:
Show off! :-)
I think the guy would have given it away if he thought anyone would be
interested and just listed it on ebay as something easier than
figuring out how to scrap/trash the thing.
I believe I have this same drive. Its damned
heavy. IIRC, I used a
ramp and a winch strap to inch it into the back of my car and then had
help unloading/moving it. Currently its sitting on the base shelf of
a 3' high 19" rack with casters so I can move the thing about.
Mine has a Pertec interface. I picked it up from a local seller for
$0.99 on ebay. -
Got you beat by $0.99. Sometimes you get lucky.
I consider my $0.99 haul lucky :-). Is yours the pertec interface?
2:17 p.m.
In article <alpine.DEB.1.10.1105052320120.10304 at sleipnir.cs.csubak.edu>,
David Griffith <dgriffi at cs.csubak.edu> writes:
My story is that I scored a couple IMSAIs and Altairs
with the catch that
I had to take most of the contents of the shed. I'm still selling off
that stuff.
What else was in the shed?
--
"The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline" -- DirectX 9 draft available for download
<http://legalizeadulthood.wordpress.com/the-direct3d-graphics-pipeline/>
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7 May
7 May
12:13 a.m.
On 5/5/11 11:21 PM, David Griffith wrote:
My story is that I scored a couple IMSAIs and Altairs
with the catch that I had to take most of the contents of the shed. I'm still selling
off that stuff.
And a good lot of stuff you got there, too. It would be nice to see if Morrow MICRONIX is
in there somewhere.
re. Fujitsu tape drive
If someone wants one in the Bay Area, I have a complete unit I'm about to scrap.
6 May
6 May
3:13 a.m.
In article <4DC2B7E8.22457.1626C5C at cclist.sydex.com>,
"Chuck Guzis" <cclist at sydex.com> writes:
If you're going to load heavy gear into a tall
rack with roll-around
casters, make sure that it has an anti-tip feature, should you hit a
bump in the floor.
What exaclty is an "anti-tip feature"?
--
"The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline" -- DirectX 9 draft available for download
<http://legalizeadulthood.wordpress.com/the-direct3d-graphics-pipeline/>
Legalize Adulthood! <http://legalizeadulthood.wordpress.com>
3:15 a.m.
If you're
going to load heavy gear into a tall rack with roll-around
casters, make sure that it has an anti-tip feature, should you hit a
bump in the floor.
What exaclty is an "anti-tip feature"?
3:19 a.m.
In article <201105060315.p463FoRI016966 at floodgap.com>,
Cameron Kaiser <spectre at floodgap.com> writes:
A strategically placed disposable redshirt assistant.
*giggle*
--
"The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline" -- DirectX 9 draft available for download
<http://legalizeadulthood.wordpress.com/the-direct3d-graphics-pipeline/>
Legalize Adulthood! <http://legalizeadulthood.wordpress.com>
If you're going to load heavy gear into a tall
rack with roll-around
casters, make sure that it has an anti-tip feature, should you hit a
bump in the floor.
What exaclty is an "anti-tip feature"? 
3:18 a.m.
--- On Thu, 5/5/11, Richard <legalize at xmission.com> wrote:
What exaclty is an "anti-tip feature"?
Most racks have a pull out stabilizer of some kind, or even jutting out little
"feet" to prevent them from tipping over forwards while you pull heavy things
out on the rails. So, in order to pull out a device, first you pull out the anti-tip bar
at the bottom, then pull out the device. The DEC H960 racks don't have that pull-out
bar, instead they have two feet that stick out the front of the cabinet a foot or so, and
serve to trip people walking too close to the computer...
-Ian
5 May
5 May
4:36 p.m.
The maintenance manual doesn't say anything
specific about mounting the
equipment in a rack. Is it typical for things to be supported only by
that front mounting panel, or do people add some kind of additional
support in the rear?
It depends on weight. I have some 19" equipment that is light enough to
be supported by the front mounts. But something big like a HP8924C needs
back supports.
6:02 p.m.
First, I'd like to minimize the potential for
scratching the paint on
the rack mount plates. Should I use a plastic or teflon washer between
the plate and the mounting screw? Like most rackmount equipment, the
only support is from that front panel, so it has to be mounted pretty
tight to support the weight.
The maintenance manual doesn't say anything specific about mounting the
equipment in a rack. Is it typical for things to be supported only by
that front mounting panel, or do people add some kind of additional
support in the rear?
Very few devices are designed ot be hung on their front panels. The ones
that are at short from front to back and quite light in weight. Things
like connector panals, power controllers, flip-chip backplanes, etc
Procesosr,s drives, interfaces, etc always need more support. Holdign
them by the panel only will damage them. There are 2 main ways that this
is done.
Some units have proper rack silde rails. These are boltaed to the front
and rear uprights of the rack. The inside part of the rail is screwed to
the side oif the device. The unit can be pulled out onn the rails for
servicing.
The other way is to ut a couple of lengths of metal angle between the
front and rear rails at each side. These support the bottom edges of the
unit, itjust rests on them. Serviicng may be more difficult, particularly
if you have ot pull the unit out top get to PCBs.
In both caes the front panel screws just prevern the unit from sliding
out of the rack on its own. They don't support the weight. So they are
not that tight. It is common, thoguh, to put a plastic washer between th
escrehad and the panel to prvent marking the paintwork.
-tony
7:09 p.m.
On 05/05/2011 19:02, Tony Duell wrote:
Very few devices are designed ot be hung on their
front panels. The ones
that are at short from front to back and quite light in weight. Things
like connector panals, power controllers, flip-chip backplanes, etc
Network switches are almost always mounted by the front flange -- but if
they're heavy, they're also tall, so the twisting moment is small and
distributed.
--
Pete Peter Turnbull
Network Manager
University of York
6:02 p.m.
On Thu, 5 May 2011, Richard wrote:
First, I'd like to minimize the potential for
scratching the paint on
the rack mount plates. Should I use a plastic or teflon washer between
the plate and the mounting screw? Like most rackmount equipment, the
only support is from that front panel, so it has to be mounted pretty
tight to support the weight.
I've used aluminum angle stock, 1/8"x2"x2", and bolted it to the
inside
of the cabinet on each side, between the front and rear rack columns.
Home Depot carries it.
Mike Loewen mloewen at cpumagic.scol.pa.us
Old Technology http://sturgeon.css.psu.edu/~mloewen/Oldtech/
4998
days inactive
5000
days old
27 comments
14 participants
participants (14)
-
aek＠bitsavers.org -
ard＠p850ug1.demon.co.uk -
cclist＠sydex.com -
dave.thearchivist＠gmail.com -
dgriffi＠cs.csubak.edu -
glen.slick＠gmail.com -
ian_primus＠yahoo.com -
jws＠jwsss.com -
legalize＠xmission.com -
mloewen＠cpumagic.scol.pa.us -
pete＠dunnington.plus.com -
pu1bzz.listas＠gmail.com -
spectre＠floodgap.com -
tdk.knight＠gmail.com