26 Jun
2013
26 Jun
'13
10:06 a.m.
OOOPS!! The first line should have included:
<ESC>[16;99r
rather than
<ESC>[0;99r
Hi Jerome,
There are still some errors in the files.
I think the first line of the second file should also be changed
to <ESC>[16;255r rather than <ESC>[0;255r
I also suspect <ESC>[2J should be used instead of <ESC>2J in both cases.
There is a < missing after 2J in the first line of each file.
When I tried displaying the two files (after the above corrections) on a DECterm
created by DECWindows on OpenVMS Alpha V8.2, the scrolling region setting was
not altered unless I reduced boundaries of the scrolling region requested
to fit within the current page size of the DECterm. For example, <ESC>[16;38r
worked on a DECterm set to a page length of 40, but not on a DECterm set to a
page length of 24.
(Over the years I have seen many so-called VT100 emulators on PCs and Macs that
made no attempt whatever to implement scrolling regions.)
Regards,
Peter Coghlan.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jerome H. Fine wrote:
I have a simple request for anyone who is has a
real DEC VT100
or compatible terminal (VT100, VT220, VT320, VT420, VT510)
and especially VT100 software emulations, either as standalone
software or as part of a PDP-11 emulator such as Ersatz-11.
In respect of the latter, I have been using the Ersatz-11 PDP-11
emulator to support VT100 emulation with more than 24 lines
for a few years. In particular, as part of the implementation,
when the Range Escape Sequence is used to begin the Scrolling
Region at a line less than 24 for the TOP and a line at the bottom
of the screen for the BOTTOM, I use:
<ESC>[16;255r
to scroll between line 16 and the bottom of the screen. For
real DEC VT100 terminals with the AVO option, there is
ONLY one size for the number of lines, namely 24 lines.
Since I can't ATTACH files to be sent to classiccmp,
below are two files which can be used to erase the screen,
set the scrolling region to line 16 at the top and line 99 or line 255,
respectively, at the bottom of the screen. If the any VT100
(compatible) terminal or emulated VT100 terminal set for 24 lines
is able to handle setting the scrolling region in this manner, each
file with FIFTY lines should begin starting to display "Line 1 of File"
of the file on line 12 of the "terminal" and "Line 2 of File" on line
16
of the "terminal" the and end up showing approximately six lines of
the file at the bottom of the screen as the previous lines of the file
scroll off the TOP of the scrolling region (at line 16 of the terminal)
with just "Line 1 of File" remaining on line 12 of the "terminal".
I would very much appreciate learning the results of sending
both files to a DEC (or emulated) VT100 terminal. If they act
the same was as Ersatz-11, the results will be identical with using
24 in place of 99 or 255.
Jerome Fine
P.S. When the file is transferred to the system, replace <ESC>
with octal 33!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! KED can be used under RT-11.
The user eliminates each <ESC> and enters TWO <ESC>
characters instead. Alternatively, if you can remember the
first line correctly, you can enter the complete file in about
2 minutes by duplicating (cut and paste) the other 49 lines.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
<ESC>2JESC>[12;1HLine 1 of File<ESC>[0;99r<ESC>[16;1H
Line 2 of File
Line 3 of File
Line 4 of File
Line 5 of File
Line 6 of File
Line 7 of File
Line 8 of File
Line 9 of File
Line 10 of File
Line 11 of File
Line 12 of File
Line 13 of File
Line 14 of File
Line 15 of File
Line 16 of File
Line 17 of File
Line 18 of File
Line 19 of File
Line 20 of File
Line 21 of File
Line 22 of File
Line 13 of File
Line 14 of File
Line 15 of File
Line 16 of File
Line 17 of File
Line 18 of File
Line 19 of File
Line 20 of File
Line 21 of File
Line 22 of File
Line 23 of File
Line 24 of File
Line 25 of File
Line 26 of File
Line 27 of File
Line 28 of File
Line 29 of File
Line 30 of File
Line 31 of File
Line 32 of File
Line 33 of File
Line 34 of File
Line 35 of File
Line 36 of File
Line 37 of File
Line 38 of File
Line 39 of File
Line 40 of File
Line 41 of File
Line 42 of File
Line 43 of File
Line 44 of File
Line 45 of File
Line 46 of File
Line 47 of File
Line 48 of File
Line 49 of File
Line 50 of File
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
<ESC>2JESC>[12;1HLine 1 of File<ESC>[0;255r<ESC>[16;1H
Line 2 of File
Line 3 of File
Line 4 of File
Line 5 of File
Line 6 of File
Line 7 of File
Line 8 of File
Line 9 of File
Line 10 of File
Line 11 of File
Line 12 of File
Line 13 of File
Line 14 of File
Line 15 of File
Line 16 of File
Line 17 of File
Line 18 of File
Line 19 of File
Line 20 of File
Line 21 of File
Line 22 of File
Line 13 of File
Line 14 of File
Line 15 of File
Line 16 of File
Line 17 of File
Line 18 of File
Line 19 of File
Line 20 of File
Line 21 of File
Line 22 of File
Line 23 of File
Line 24 of File
Line 25 of File
Line 26 of File
Line 27 of File
Line 28 of File
Line 29 of File
Line 30 of File
Line 31 of File
Line 32 of File
Line 33 of File
Line 34 of File
Line 35 of File
Line 36 of File
Line 37 of File
Line 38 of File
Line 39 of File
Line 40 of File
Line 41 of File
Line 42 of File
Line 43 of File
Line 44 of File
Line 45 of File
Line 46 of File
Line 47 of File
Line 48 of File
Line 49 of File
Line 50 of File
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
Jerome Fine replies:
aaaa
Sincerely yours,
Jerome Fine
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26 Jun
26 Jun
2:35 p.m.
On Wed, Jun 26, 2013 at 03:06:36PM +0100, Peter Coghlan wrote:
(Over the years I have seen many so-called VT100
emulators on PCs and Macs that
made no attempt whatever to implement scrolling regions.)
Like the DEC GIGI (VK100)! That was a surprise -- DEC's own terminal won't
work with EDT (in spite of being generally ANSIsh when not in ReGIS mode).
OK I just did some testing on a real DEC VT100 in local mode (it's not
cabled to anything that could display those files), and found that if
either parameter to ESC [ Pa ; Pb r is out of range (.GT. 24) or if they're
not in order (i.e. Pa .GE. Pb -- note that the scroll region must be at least
2 lines so Pa .EQ. Pb is invalid too), the command is ignored and doesn't
even home the cursor. Thanks for making me check this -- will fix E11!
However, either or both parameter may be defaulted (i.e. 0 or missing, and
the ; can be left out if Pb is defaulted). Pa defaults to 1 and Pb defaults
to 24 (or presumably EOS on larger screens). So that's probably what you
should use if you're trying to set the range from some known line down to
the unknown end of screen w/o knowing what that is. (EDT in particular is
big into using defaults since it makes output faster, so this is definitely
legit -- any VT100 emulator that can't handle defaulted parameters will
break with lots of DEC's own software.)
John Wilson
D Bit
2:56 p.m.
On Wed, Jun 26, 2013 at 02:35:59PM -0400, I wrote:
OK I just did some testing on a real DEC VT100 in local
mode
FWIW I just double-checked on a real VT101 and a real VT102 and they're
the same. E11 fixed for next version (had been incorrectly clipping Pb
to the screen height instead of ignoring the command, all these years).
John Wilson
D Bit
11:19 p.m.
Peter Coghlan wrote:
OOOPS!! The
first line should have included:
<ESC>[16;99r
rather than
<ESC>[0;99r
Hi Jerome,
There are still some errors in the files.
I think the first line of the second file should also be changed
to <ESC>[16;255r rather than <ESC>[0;255r
I also suspect <ESC>[2J should be used instead of <ESC>2J in both cases.
There is a < missing after 2J in the first line of each file.
When I tried displaying the two files (after the above corrections) on a DECterm
created by DECWindows on OpenVMS Alpha V8.2, the scrolling region setting was
not altered unless I reduced boundaries of the scrolling region requested
to fit within the current page size of the DECterm. For example, <ESC>[16;38r
worked on a DECterm set to a page length of 40, but not on a DECterm set to a
page length of 24.
(Over the years I have seen many so-called VT100 emulators on PCs and Macs that
made no attempt whatever to implement scrolling regions.)
27 Jun
27 Jun
8:26 p.m.
New subject: VT100 ESC sequences (was: Setting the Scrolling Region on VT100's VT220's VT320's VT420's, VT510's etc.)
By the way, I've been experimenting with a way to succinctly summarize
ESC sequence chatter on the terminals wiki. Here's what that looks
like for VT100:
<http://terminals.classiccmp.org/wiki/index.php/CodeChart:DEC_VT100>
When such a code chart exists, it's linked from the terminal's infobox,
in the firmware section:
<http://terminals.classiccmp.org/wiki/index.php/DEC_VT100>
--
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