17 Nov
2013
17 Nov
'13
11:01 a.m.
I pulled my Corvus Concept keyboard apart for cleaning and managed to
knock loose the white nylon "collar" around the caps-lock key mechanism.
Apparently there was a microscopic pin inside with an equally microscopic
load spring behind it... At any rate, no toggling anymore :-(.
Is there anyone on the list who may have cannabilized a Sun 4 keyboard and
can spare the caps-lock assembly from it? Or, any suggestions for getting
this to work again?
Steve
--
17 Nov
17 Nov
3:57 p.m.
Is there anyone on the list who may have cannabilized
a Sun 4
keyboard and can spare the caps-lock assembly from it?
All the keyboards I know of which could fairly be called "Sun 4" (ie,
the type-4, and any keyboard that shipped with a Sun-4/anything -
actually, every Sun keyboard I've seen, I think) do capslock in
software. Is there a variant I've missed?
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4:18 p.m.
On Sun, 17 Nov 2013, Mouse wrote:
Probably not. I was coming from wishful thinking, I guess. Thanks for
clarifying!
I'm not sure exactly what pieces fell out of the Corvus keyboard. I did
find an incredibly tiny coil spring that could have been used to load a
pin against a nylon track to mechanically capture the key when pressed.
Never saw the pin itself.
Your comment makes me wonder if the Concept might not also toggle capslock
in software. I could swear it had a mechanical detent, but may be mixing
it up with the Lisa keyboard (last Keytronics unit I had apart on the
bench).
Steve
--
Is there
anyone on the list who may have cannabilized a Sun 4
keyboard and can spare the caps-lock assembly from it?
All the keyboards I know of which could fairly be called "Sun 4" (ie,
the type-4, and any keyboard that shipped with a Sun-4/anything -
actually, every Sun keyboard I've seen, I think) do capslock in
software. Is there a variant I've missed? 
7:19 p.m.
On 11/17/2013 04:18 PM, Steven Hirsch wrote:
I'm not sure exactly what pieces fell out of the
Corvus keyboard. I did
find an incredibly tiny coil spring that could have been used to load a
pin against a nylon track to mechanically capture the key when pressed.
Never saw the pin itself.
Your comment makes me wonder if the Concept might not also toggle
capslock in software. I could swear it had a mechanical detent, but may
be mixing it up with the Lisa keyboard (last Keytronics unit I had apart
on the bench).
I've got a couple bits of old equipment here with Keytronics keyboards
that have three types of key action. The first is the usual make-break
momentary contact. The second is alternate-action--useful for things
like test or scroll-lock. The third is the Caps-lock thing--press
"Lock" and the key remains down until you hit the shift key.
So the action as described does exist.
--Chuck
18 Nov
18 Nov
5:20 a.m.
On Sun, 17 Nov 2013, Chuck Guzis wrote:
On 11/17/2013 04:18 PM, Steven Hirsch wrote:
> I'm not sure exactly what pieces fell out of the Corvus keyboard. I did
> find an incredibly tiny coil spring that could have been used to load a
> pin against a nylon track to mechanically capture the key when pressed.
> Never saw the pin itself.
>
> Your comment makes me wonder if the Concept might not also toggle
> capslock in software. I could swear it had a mechanical detent, but may
> be mixing it up with the Lisa keyboard (last Keytronics unit I had apart
> on the bench).
I've got a couple bits of old equipment here with
Keytronics keyboards that
have three types of key action. The first is the usual make-break momentary
contact. The second is alternate-action--useful for things like test or
scroll-lock. The third is the Caps-lock thing--press "Lock" and the key
remains down until you hit the shift key.
This would have been the second: push-on, push-off. But now I'm wondering
if it ever actually was used that way. The system unit and monitor are
not operational at the moment, so it may be a while before I can test it.
All I know is that it was not latching down when I disassembled the
keyboard to check the foam pads. Amazingly enough for a 33 year unit, the
foam is 100% intact on all keys and appears to have the proper resilience!
When I started poking at the capslock key, a white plastic band around it
popped off followed by some tiny nylon parts and the smallest coil spring
I've seen. It's quite possible that keytronics put that assembly on all
production keyboards and simply left out the pin from the toggle assembly
for menufacturers who wanted to do it in software.
Steve
--
11:22 a.m.
The "Related Sites" section of the main page on the terminals wiki has
links to some sites that are useful for understanding various details
of various keyboard workings:
<http://terminals.classiccmp.org/wiki/index.php/Main_Page>
As I discover new sites that are relevant, I update that page to make
it a more useful reference.
--
"The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline" free book
<http://tinyurl.com/d3d-pipeline>
The Computer Graphics Museum <http://ComputerGraphicsMuseum.org>
The Terminals Wiki <http://terminals.classiccmp.org>
Legalize Adulthood! (my blog) <http://LegalizeAdulthood.wordpress.com>
11:33 a.m.
On 11/18/13 5:20 AM, Steven Hirsch wrote:
On Sun, 17 Nov 2013, Chuck Guzis wrote:
> On 11/17/2013 04:18 PM, Steven Hirsch wrote:
>
>> I'm not sure exactly what pieces fell out of the Corvus keyboard.
Those caps lock assemblies are evil. There are two Lisa keyboards of
mine that sprayed small parts that disappeared while cleaning them.
Its possible to glue the pin in place, if there was a spring I never
saw it. I could barely find the pin.
The Corvus kb doesn't have hardware lock.
2:59 p.m.
On Mon, 18 Nov 2013, Al Kossow wrote:
On 11/18/13 5:20 AM, Steven Hirsch wrote:
Fortunately, I didn't manage to bugger the last two Lisa keyboards. BTW,
thanks for the excellent writeup on fabricating the foam contact disks!
I picked up the recommended materials and disk cutter and it works like a
charm. I did find that an arbor press works far better than whacking it
with a hammer :-). Because of the foam, the punch tends to bounce when
struck.
On Sun, 17 Nov 2013, Chuck Guzis wrote:
> On 11/17/2013 04:18 PM, Steven Hirsch wrote:
>
>> I'm not sure exactly what pieces fell out of the Corvus keyboard.
Those caps lock assemblies are evil. There are two Lisa keyboards of
mine that sprayed small parts that disappeared while cleaning them.
Its possible to glue the pin in place, if there was a spring I never
saw it. I could barely find the pin. The Corvus kb doesn't have hardware lock.
Ah, ok. So no big deal. They must have simply left the little pin out on
these. Still cannot get over that all the foam is intact.
Steve
--
4:23 p.m.
On 11/18/13 2:59 PM, Steven Hirsch wrote:
I did find that an arbor press works far better than
whacking it with a hammer :-)
Correct. I switched to using one as soon as I found that the Museum had one stashed under
a bench.
I did end up buying a 5/8 hand hole punch for punching the mylar after folding it
multiple
times to punch more than one at once, and glued them individually. Just found the Super77
too
hard to work with. I used the same 5/8" punch on the plastic shim stock, or just
resused the
plastic from the original pads.
6:24 p.m.
On Mon, 18 Nov 2013, Al Kossow wrote:
On 11/18/13 2:59 PM, Steven Hirsch wrote:
I did find
that an arbor press works far better than whacking it with a
hammer :-)
Correct. I switched to using one as soon as I found that the Museum had one
stashed under a bench. I did end up buying a 5/8 hand hole punch for punching
the mylar after
folding it multiple times to punch more than one at once, and glued them
individually. Just found the Super77 too hard to work with. I used the
same 5/8" punch on the plastic shim stock, or just resused the plastic
from the original pads.
I did quickly find out that you have to keep your wits about you with the
spray adhesive - yes. Not too bad when you get the hang of it.
Steve
--
25 Nov
25 Nov
9:28 a.m.
On Mon, 18 Nov 2013, Al Kossow wrote:
The Corvus kb doesn't have hardware lock.
Unfortunately, my system does require a mechanical lock. It does not
toggle on alternate presses :-(. It's likely that there were different
versions of the Concept keyboard built and I drew the bad card.
If anyone has a suggestion for repairing the mechanical toggle mechanism,
I would appreciate some sage words.
Steve
--
10:27 a.m.
On 11/25/13 9:28 AM, Steven Hirsch wrote:
On Mon, 18 Nov 2013, Al Kossow wrote:
foo. I'll check mine again.
does your kb look like the one under
http://bitsavers.trailing-edge.com/pdf/corvus/keyboard/
I suppose it flew apart when I cleaned it, and didn't notice. Now I have to find some
sacrificial
Keytronics kb to fix it.
The Corvus kb doesn't have hardware lock.
Unfortunately, my system does require a mechanical lock.
2:19 p.m.
On Mon, 25 Nov 2013, Al Kossow wrote:
On 11/25/13 9:28 AM, Steven Hirsch wrote:
That be the one - exactly the same as my unit.
On Mon, 18 Nov 2013, Al Kossow wrote:
foo. I'll check mine again.
does your kb look like the one under The Corvus kb doesn't have hardware lock.
Unfortunately, my system does require a mechanical lock. I suppose it flew apart when I cleaned it, and
didn't notice. Now I have to
find some sacrificial
Keytronics kb to fix it.
If you find such a thing, I'd love to know the specifics.
On the subject of Corvus, I have an interface called a "Buffered Floppy
Controller" and what appears to be an 80-track 5.25" DD drive attached.
Do you have one of these? If so, how do you get the OS to recognize it?
It tries to access the unit but cannot recognize the one 5.25" system
diskette I have.
ImageDisk tells me it's 9 x 512 byte/sector, 80-tracks, DS and 300Kbps
data rate (a function of the Teac HD drive I'm using - probably 250Kbps in
real life). This correlates with a number of the images on Bitsavers
(from Eric Smith?).
I cannot find any documentation on this particular floppy peripheral. The
unit is working fine from the 8" SSSD drive and fortunately the lion's
share of my diskettes are in that format. It also can read Apple 2 GCR
encoded diskettes by plugging an Apple controller and drive in.
I'm getting the impression that the "Buffered Floppy" device was
introduced late in the Concept's lifetime and perhaps needs new firmware
or device drivers.
My Concept was very nicely modified to have 1.25 M of memory. Never seen
any others with this work. One bank of 64k DRAM was replaced with stacked
sockets, bent-out pins for high address line and 256k DRAM installed.
Steve
--
6:29 p.m.
On 11/25/13 2:19 PM, Steven Hirsch wrote:
I'm getting the impression that the "Buffered
Floppy" device was introduced late in the Concept's lifetime and perhaps needs
new firmware or device drivers.
I think that is the case. I have a large number of Corvus physical diskettes, disk images,
and a couple of machines now that I need to get sorted out.
I should sort out all of the Concept firmware that I have. I know there was a Concept, and
a Concept-II.
26 Nov
26 Nov
6:15 a.m.
New subject: Corvus Concept (was: Keytronics caps-lock mechanism)
On Mon, 25 Nov 2013, Al Kossow wrote:
On 11/25/13 2:19 PM, Steven Hirsch wrote:
> I'm getting the impression that the "Buffered Floppy" device was
introduced
> late in the Concept's lifetime and perhaps needs new firmware or device
> drivers.
>
I think that is the case. I have a large number of
Corvus physical diskettes,
disk images, and a couple of machines now that I need to get sorted out.
I should sort out all of the Concept firmware that I have. I know there was a
Concept, and a Concept-II.
Please keep us informed as things are archived? I know I need the
"MacsBug" debugging firmware images and it's likely there's a newer boot
ROM intended to support the 5.25" drive. Odd that there's not a mention
of additional software and firmware requirements in any of the
documentation. My machine came with two bins full of the little
padded-cover Corvus Concept binders. The only mention of the 5.25" floppy
was a 20-page "how to open the cover of your machine and plug the adapter
in" manual. Zero mention of software considerations.
I ended up with one loose set of CPU and memory boards and an extra "tray"
assembly with a third set of boards. This machine came from a company
who were developing third-party software for the Concept and there's a lot
of source code in the 40-odd 8" diskettes.
If you need images of the 8" system distribution, let me know. The stuff
on Bitsavers is interesting, but it's unclear whether it includes an
unmodified set of the original system software.
Steve
--
6:25 a.m.
New subject: Corvus Concept
On 11/26/13 6:15 AM, Steven Hirsch wrote:
This machine came from a company who were developing third-party software for the
Concept and there's a lot of source code in the
40-odd 8" diskettes.
Well that would certainly be interesting.
If you need images of the 8" system distribution,
let me know. The stuff on Bitsavers is interesting, but it's unclear whether it
includes an unmodified set of the original system software.
One of the things I changed in my disk reading process a couple of years ago was always
scanning the diskette labels exactly because of not knowing if the disks were originals or
not.
The buffered controller came out pretty late in the life of the Concept. There were a
couple of machines they tried to build before they imploded, including a Concept with an
MMU running
Unisoft Unix (but no video), a 68010 machine they OEMed to Honeywell and Valid Logic, a
diskless PC clone, and finally an AT file server.
7:10 a.m.
New subject: Corvus Concept
On Tue, 26 Nov 2013, Al Kossow wrote:
On 11/26/13 6:15 AM, Steven Hirsch wrote:
This machine came from a company who were developing third-party software for
the
Concept and there's a lot of source code in
the 40-odd 8" diskettes.
Well that would certainly be interesting. > If you need images of the 8" system
distribution, let me know. The stuff
> on Bitsavers is interesting, but it's unclear whether it includes an
> unmodified set of the original system software.
>
One of the things I changed in my disk reading process
a couple of years ago
was always scanning the diskette labels exactly because of not knowing if the
disks were originals or not.
I have a couple of weeks off in December and will make time to scan the
diskettes and get you images.
The buffered controller came out pretty late in the
life of the Concept.
There were a couple of machines they tried to build
before they imploded,
including a Concept with an MMU running
Unisoft Unix (but no video), a 68010 machine they OEMed to Honeywell and
Valid Logic, a diskless PC clone, and finally an AT file server.
--
27 Nov
27 Nov
7:43 a.m.
New subject: Corvus Concept (was: Keytronics caps-lock mechanism)
In article <alpine.DEB.2.02.1311260907270.3366 at z87>,
Steven Hirsch <snhirsch at gmail.com> writes:
You can use this RSS feed to monitor new additions to the "bits" part
of bitsavers:
<http://www.xmission.com/~legalize/vintage/bitsavers-bits.xml>
--
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<http://tinyurl.com/d3d-pipeline>
The Computer Graphics Museum <http://ComputerGraphicsMuseum.org>
The Terminals Wiki <http://terminals.classiccmp.org>
Legalize Adulthood! (my blog) <http://LegalizeAdulthood.wordpress.com>
On Mon, 25 Nov 2013, Al Kossow wrote:
> I think that is the case. I have a large number of Corvus physical diskettes,
> disk images, and a couple of machines now that I need to get sorted out.
> I should sort out all of the Concept firmware that I have. I know there was
a
Concept, and a
Concept-II.
Please keep us informed as things are archived?
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